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Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
Tony
Nottingham England 14 February 2007 TO: All People Who Care I am a private individual posting this message to help Laboratory Animals. I apologize if this message is out of place in this group but I think you need to know this. A new European Chemical Testing Policy called REACH has now been finalised by the European Union. Under these proposals Chemicals of every kind - from those used in industrial processes to the ingredients of consumer products - will be tested on Millions of animals from mice to fish to dogs, causing untold suffering. If you believe that REACH should make more use of Alternative Testing to test its Chemicals then please take action now. If you are a European citizen please contact your local papers and own MEP asking them to promote the development of humane non-animal testing methods under the REACH legislation, which is the best hope we have for sparing animals the misery of a testing laboratory. A sample letter can be found at the BUAV (British Union for the Abolition of Vivisection) website at www.BUAV.org (Select Campaigns, Chemical Testing, Get Active then Writing to the local press). For all Non-European members, you can still help. Please tell all your colleagues and friends in the UK and Europe about REACH. Everyone can help and you can make a difference. Thank You |
Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
On 14 Feb 2007 15:54:32 -0800, "TONY" wrote:
Tony Nottingham England Gosh, Tony. I sure hope you never have to take a drug for anything. -- ***** Have a super day! ***** John H |
Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
On Feb 14, 3:54�pm, "TONY" wrote:
Tony Nottingham England 14 February 2007 TO: All People Who Care I *am *a *private *individual *posting *this message to help Laboratory Animals. I apologize if this message is out of place in this group but I think you need to know this. A * new * European * Chemical * Testing * *Policy * *called REACH *has *now * been * finalised * by * *the * European Union. *Under *these *proposals * Chemicals * *of * *every kind * - from *those *used *in *industrial *processes to *the ingredients *of *consumer products *- will * be * tested *on Millions of *animals from *mice *to *fish *to *dogs, causing untold suffering. If *you *believe *that *REACH *should make *more *use *of Alternative Testing to test *its Chemicals then please take action now. If *you are *a *European citizen *please *contact your local papers *and * own * MEP *asking * them * to *promote * the development *of *humane * non-animal *testing * *methods under the REACH legislation, which is the best *hope *we have for sparing animals the misery of a testing laboratory. A sample *letter can *be found at the BUAV (British Union for the Abolition of Vivisection) website atwww.BUAV.org (Select Campaigns, *Chemical Testing, * Get Active *then Writing to the local press). For * all * Non-European * members, *you * can *still * help. Please tell all *your *colleagues and friends in the UK and Europe about *REACH. Everyone can help and you can make *a *difference. Thank You I think the chemicals should be tested on cross posters. |
Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
On 14 Feb 2007 16:11:38 -0800, "Chuck Gould"
wrote: On Feb 14, 3:54?pm, "TONY" wrote: Tony Nottingham England 14 February 2007 TO: All People Who Care I !m ! 0rivate )ndividual 0osting 4his message to help Laboratory Animals. I apologize if this message is out of place in this group but I think you need to know this. A new European Chemical Testing olicy #alled REACH (as .ow been finalised by 4he European Union. nder 4hese 0roposals Chemicals /f %very kind - from 4hose 5sed )n )ndustrial 0rocesses to 4he ingredients /f #onsumer products - will be tested /n Millions of !nimals from -ice 4o &ish 4o $ogs, causing untold suffering. If 9ou "elieve 4hat EACH 3hould make -ore 5se /f Alternative Testing to test )ts Chemicals then please take action now. If 9ou are ! uropean citizen 0lease #ontact your local papers !nd own MEP !sking them to 0romote the development /f (umane non-animal 4esting -ethods under the REACH legislation, which is the best (ope 7e have for sparing animals the misery of a testing laboratory. A sample ,etter can "e found at the BUAV (British Union for the Abolition of Vivisection) website atwww.BUAV.org (Select Campaigns, hemical Testing, Get Active 4hen Writing to the local press). For all Non-European members, 9ou can 3till help. Please tell all 9our #olleagues and friends in the UK and Europe about EACH. Everyone can help and you can make ! $ifference. Thank You I think the chemicals should be tested on cross posters. Agree, but I don't think this was crossposted, unless he did each group individually. Agent warns me if a message I'm responding to is crossposted and gives me the option of doing the same or keeping my response within one group. I got no warning that I can remember. -- ***** Have a super day! ***** John H |
Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... On Feb 14, 3:54?pm, "TONY" wrote: Tony Nottingham England 14 February 2007 TO: All People Who Care I am a private individual posting this message to help Laboratory Animals. I apologize if this message is out of place in this group but I think you need to know this. A new European Chemical Testing Policy called REACH has now been finalised by the European Union. Under these proposals Chemicals of every kind - from those used in industrial processes to the ingredients of consumer products - will be tested on Millions of animals from mice to fish to dogs, causing untold suffering. If you believe that REACH should make more use of Alternative Testing to test its Chemicals then please take action now. If you are a European citizen please contact your local papers and own MEP asking them to promote the development of humane non-animal testing methods under the REACH legislation, which is the best hope we have for sparing animals the misery of a testing laboratory. A sample letter can be found at the BUAV (British Union for the Abolition of Vivisection) website atwww.BUAV.org (Select Campaigns, Chemical Testing, Get Active then Writing to the local press). For all Non-European members, you can still help. Please tell all your colleagues and friends in the UK and Europe about REACH. Everyone can help and you can make a difference. Thank You I think the chemicals should be tested on cross posters. ============== I think NG Netcops trump cross posters. Are you ready Chuck? |
Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
TONY wrote:
Tony Nottingham England 14 February 2007 TO: All People Who Care That's your first mistake. |
Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 19:51:35 -0500, "JimH" wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message roups.com... I think NG Netcops trump cross posters. Are you ready Chuck? Glad you're feeling better Jimmy. All the pain gone now? Are you trying to improve your karma? -- ***** Have a super day! ***** John H |
Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
On Feb 14, 4:51�pm, "JimH" wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... On Feb 14, 3:54?pm, "TONY" wrote: Tony Nottingham England 14 February 2007 TO: All People Who Care I am a private individual posting this message to help Laboratory Animals. I apologize if this message is out of place in this group but I think you need to know this. A *new *European *Chemical *Testing *Policy *called REACH has now *been *finalised *by *the *European Union. Under these proposals *Chemicals *of *every kind *- from those used in industrial processes to the ingredients of consumer products - will *be *tested on Millions of animals from mice to fish to dogs, causing untold suffering. If you believe that REACH should make more use of Alternative Testing to test its Chemicals then please take action now. If you are a European citizen please contact your local papers and *own *MEP asking *them *to promote *the development of humane *non-animal testing *methods under the REACH legislation, which is the best hope we have for sparing animals the misery of a testing laboratory. A sample letter can be found at the BUAV (British Union for the Abolition of Vivisection) website atwww.BUAV.org (Select Campaigns, Chemical Testing, *Get Active then Writing to the local press). For *all *Non-European *members, you *can still *help. Please tell all your colleagues and friends in the UK and Europe about REACH. Everyone can help and you can make a difference. Thank You I think the chemicals should be tested on cross posters. ============== I think NG Netcops trump cross posters. Of course you would. You have a lot less interest in boating than you do in stirring up crap. You want to read about cruelty to animals? Go to the appropriate forum. Suppose the folks over at the animal welfare site would find it AOK if people began posting a lot of boating related material there? |
Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
JLH wrote: I think the chemicals should be tested on cross posters. Agree, but I don't think this was crossposted, unless he did each group individually. Agent warns me if a message I'm responding to is crossposted and gives me the option of doing the same or keeping my response within one group. I got no warning that I can remember. -- ***** Have a super day! ***** John H He/she/it didn't cross-post, but is sure making the rounds. http://groups.google.com/groups/prof...Xc24h6ww&hl=en |
Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
On Feb 15, 9:39 am, "Chuck Gould" wrote:
On Feb 14, 4:51?pm, "JimH" wrote: "Chuck Gould" wrote in message roups.com... On Feb 14, 3:54?pm, "TONY" wrote: Tony Nottingham England 14 February 2007 TO: All People Who Care I am a private individual posting this message to help Laboratory Animals. I apologize if this message is out of place in this group but I think you need to know this. A ?new ?European ?Chemical ?Testing ?Policy ?called REACH has now ?been ?finalised ?by ?the ?European Union. Under these proposals ?Chemicals ?of ?every kind ?- from those used in industrial processes to the ingredients of consumer products - will ?be ?tested on Millions of animals from mice to fish to dogs, causing untold suffering. If you believe that REACH should make more use of Alternative Testing to test its Chemicals then please take action now. If you are a European citizen please contact your local papers and ?own ?MEP asking ?them ?to promote ?the development of humane ?non-animal testing ?methods under the REACH legislation, which is the best hope we have for sparing animals the misery of a testing laboratory. A sample letter can be found at the BUAV (British Union for the Abolition of Vivisection) website atwww.BUAV.org (Select Campaigns, Chemical Testing, ?Get Active then Writing to the local press). For ?all ?Non-European ?members, you ?can still ?help. Please tell all your colleagues and friends in the UK and Europe about REACH. Everyone can help and you can make a difference. Thank You I think the chemicals should be tested on cross posters. ============== I think NG Netcops trump cross posters. Of course you would. You have a lot less interest in boating than you do in snip So sorry Charlie.........but my interest in boating in the midst of winter is pretty low. Right now temps are in the single digits, there is over a foot of snow on the ground and my boat has been tucked away and hibernating since late Fall '06. Not all of us eat, drink and sleep boating like you apparently do. Heck, there are several active members in this NG who are non boaters and don't even own a boat. I guess I could repost some JD Power rating spam, but who needs that.......eh? ;-) |
Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
JimH wrote:
On Feb 15, 9:39 am, "Chuck Gould" wrote: On Feb 14, 4:51?pm, "JimH" wrote: "Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... On Feb 14, 3:54?pm, "TONY" wrote: Tony Nottingham England 14 February 2007 TO: All People Who Care I am a private individual posting this message to help Laboratory Animals. I apologize if this message is out of place in this group but I think you need to know this. A ?new ?European ?Chemical ?Testing ?Policy ?called REACH has now ?been ?finalised ?by ?the ?European Union. Under these proposals ?Chemicals ?of ?every kind ?- from those used in industrial processes to the ingredients of consumer products - will ?be ?tested on Millions of animals from mice to fish to dogs, causing untold suffering. If you believe that REACH should make more use of Alternative Testing to test its Chemicals then please take action now. If you are a European citizen please contact your local papers and ?own ?MEP asking ?them ?to promote ?the development of humane ?non-animal testing ?methods under the REACH legislation, which is the best hope we have for sparing animals the misery of a testing laboratory. A sample letter can be found at the BUAV (British Union for the Abolition of Vivisection) website atwww.BUAV.org (Select Campaigns, Chemical Testing, ?Get Active then Writing to the local press). For ?all ?Non-European ?members, you ?can still ?help. Please tell all your colleagues and friends in the UK and Europe about REACH. Everyone can help and you can make a difference. Thank You I think the chemicals should be tested on cross posters. ============== I think NG Netcops trump cross posters. Of course you would. You have a lot less interest in boating than you do in snip So sorry Charlie.........but my interest in boating in the midst of winter is pretty low. Right now temps are in the single digits, there is over a foot of snow on the ground and my boat has been tucked away and hibernating since late Fall '06. Not all of us eat, drink and sleep boating like you apparently do. Heck, there are several active members in this NG who are non boaters and don't even own a boat. I guess I could repost some JD Power rating spam, but who needs that.......eh? ;-) I wonder if J.D. Powers surveys these labs... |
Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
On Feb 15, 2:50�pm, "JimH" wrote:
On Feb 15, 9:39 am, "Chuck Gould" wrote: On Feb 14, 4:51?pm, "JimH" wrote: "Chuck Gould" wrote in message roups.com... On Feb 14, 3:54?pm, "TONY" wrote: Tony Nottingham England 14 February 2007 TO: All People Who Care I am a private individual posting this message to help Laboratory Animals. I apologize if this message is out of place in this group but I think you need to know this. A ?new ?European ?Chemical ?Testing ?Policy ?called REACH has now ?been ?finalised ?by ?the ?European Union. Under these proposals ?Chemicals ?of ?every kind ?- from those used in industrial processes to the ingredients of consumer products - will ?be ?tested on Millions of animals from mice to fish to dogs, causing untold suffering. If you believe that REACH should make more use of Alternative Testing to test its Chemicals then please take action now. If you are a European citizen please contact your local papers and ?own ?MEP asking ?them ?to promote ?the development of humane ?non-animal testing ?methods under the REACH legislation, which is the best hope we have for sparing animals the misery of a testing laboratory. A sample letter can be found at the BUAV (British Union for the Abolition of Vivisection) website atwww.BUAV.org (Select Campaigns, Chemical Testing, ?Get Active then Writing to the local press). For ?all ?Non-European ?members, you ?can still ?help. Please tell all your colleagues and friends in the UK and Europe about REACH. Everyone can help and you can make a difference. Thank You I think the chemicals should be tested on cross posters. ============== I think NG Netcops trump cross posters. Of course you would. You have a lot less interest in boating than you do in snip So sorry Charlie.........but my interest in boating in the midst of winter is pretty low. *Right now temps are in the single digits, there is over a foot of snow on the ground and my boat has been tucked away and hibernating since late Fall '06. Not all of us eat, drink and sleep boating like you apparently do. Heck, there are several active members in this NG who are non boaters and don't even own a boat. I guess I could repost some JD Power rating spam, but who needs that.......eh? * ;-)- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - So, let me see if I get this straight: Your particular personal circumstances and local weather mean that filling up the NG for everybody else in the world with OT junk would be preferable to posts that relate to boating. Non-boating content should be encouraged when it pleases and titillates you, and boating content should only be allowed if it meets your personal standards. That's sad. Also sad to think that non-boaters have nothing better to do than hang around a NG dedicated to a pastime they don't pursue. I don't own an airplane, but you won't catch me hanging out in the airplane newsgroups. |
Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
On Feb 15, 6:12 pm, "Chuck Gould" wrote:
On Feb 15, 2:50?pm, "JimH" wrote: On Feb 15, 9:39 am, "Chuck Gould" wrote: On Feb 14, 4:51?pm, "JimH" wrote: "Chuck Gould" wrote in message roups.com... On Feb 14, 3:54?pm, "TONY" wrote: Tony Nottingham England 14 February 2007 TO: All People Who Care I am a private individual posting this message to help Laboratory Animals. I apologize if this message is out of place in this group but I think you need to know this. A ?new ?European ?Chemical ?Testing ?Policy ?called REACH has now ?been ?finalised ?by ?the ?European Union. Under these proposals ?Chemicals ?of ?every kind ?- from those used in industrial processes to the ingredients of consumer products - will ?be ?tested on Millions of animals from mice to fish to dogs, causing untold suffering. If you believe that REACH should make more use of Alternative Testing to test its Chemicals then please take action now. If you are a European citizen please contact your local papers and ?own ?MEP asking ?them ?to promote ?the development of humane ?non-animal testing ?methods under the REACH legislation, which is the best hope we have for sparing animals the misery of a testing laboratory. A sample letter can be found at the BUAV (British Union for the Abolition of Vivisection) website atwww.BUAV.org (Select Campaigns, Chemical Testing, ?Get Active then Writing to the local press). For ?all ?Non-European ?members, you ?can still ?help. Please tell all your colleagues and friends in the UK and Europe about REACH. Everyone can help and you can make a difference. Thank You I think the chemicals should be tested on cross posters. ============== I think NG Netcops trump cross posters. Of course you would. You have a lot less interest in boating than you do in snip So sorry Charlie.........but my interest in boating in the midst of winter is pretty low. ?Right now temps are in the single digits, there is over a foot of snow on the ground and my boat has been tucked away and hibernating since late Fall '06. Not all of us eat, drink and sleep boating like you apparently do. Heck, there are several active members in this NG who are non boaters and don't even own a boat. I guess I could repost some JD Power rating spam, but who needs that.......eh? ? ;-)- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - So, let me see if I get this straight: Your particular personal circumstances and local weather mean that filling up the NG for everybody else in the world with OT junk would be preferable to posts that relate to boating. snip Give it up Chuck. No one appreciates your constant netcopping. If you don't like OT then filter them out. If you are going to bitch about OT, then bitch about all of them, including dogs, photography, etc (which I have no problem with) as they are often informative and interesting reads. Time to give up the badge Chuck. ;-) |
Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
On Feb 15, 6:24 pm, "JimH" wrote:
On Feb 15, 6:12 pm, "Chuck Gould" wrote: On Feb 15, 2:50?pm, "JimH" wrote: On Feb 15, 9:39 am, "Chuck Gould" wrote: On Feb 14, 4:51?pm, "JimH" wrote: "Chuck Gould" wrote in message roups.com... On Feb 14, 3:54?pm, "TONY" wrote: Tony Nottingham England 14 February 2007 TO: All People Who Care I am a private individual posting this message to help Laboratory Animals. I apologize if this message is out of place in this group but I think you need to know this. A ?new ?European ?Chemical ?Testing ?Policy ?called REACH has now ?been ?finalised ?by ?the ?European Union. Under these proposals ?Chemicals ?of ?every kind ?- from those used in industrial processes to the ingredients of consumer products - will ?be ?tested on Millions of animals from mice to fish to dogs, causing untold suffering. If you believe that REACH should make more use of Alternative Testing to test its Chemicals then please take action now. If you are a European citizen please contact your local papers and ?own ?MEP asking ?them ?to promote ?the development of humane ?non-animal testing ?methods under the REACH legislation, which is the best hope we have for sparing animals the misery of a testing laboratory. A sample letter can be found at the BUAV (British Union for the Abolition of Vivisection) website atwww.BUAV.org (Select Campaigns, Chemical Testing, ?Get Active then Writing to the local press). For ?all ?Non-European ?members, you ?can still ?help. Please tell all your colleagues and friends in the UK and Europe about REACH. Everyone can help and you can make a difference. Thank You I think the chemicals should be tested on cross posters. ============== I think NG Netcops trump cross posters. Of course you would. You have a lot less interest in boating than you do in snip So sorry Charlie.........but my interest in boating in the midst of winter is pretty low. ?Right now temps are in the single digits, there is over a foot of snow on the ground and my boat has been tucked away and hibernating since late Fall '06. Not all of us eat, drink and sleep boating like you apparently do. Heck, there are several active members in this NG who are non boaters and don't even own a boat. I guess I could repost some JD Power rating spam, but who needs that.......eh? ? ;-)- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - So, let me see if I get this straight: Your particular personal circumstances and local weather mean that filling up the NG for everybody else in the world with OT junk would be preferable to posts that relate to boating. snip Give it up Chuck. No one appreciates your constant netcopping. If you don't like OT then filter them out. If you are going to bitch about OT, then bitch about all of them, including dogs, photography, etc (which I have no problem with as they are often informative and interesting reads.) Time to give up the badge Chuck. ;-) edit |
Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
Chuck Gould wrote:
Also sad to think that non-boaters have nothing better to do than hang around a NG dedicated to a pastime they don't pursue. Just out of curiosity, do you post your reviews in rec.boats.cruising? |
Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
On 15 Feb 2007 14:20:19 -0800, "Tim" wrote:
JLH wrote: I think the chemicals should be tested on cross posters. Agree, but I don't think this was crossposted, unless he did each group individually. Agent warns me if a message I'm responding to is crossposted and gives me the option of doing the same or keeping my response within one group. I got no warning that I can remember. -- ***** Have a super day! ***** John H He/she/it didn't cross-post, but is sure making the rounds. http://groups.google.com/groups/prof...Xc24h6ww&hl=en I think I read somewhere that it's now possible to post to all the newsgroups you want, but have the headers show a posting to only one. But, maybe he's just going down the line, pasting to each group as he goes. He could probably post to 58 groups (if I read your site correctly) in about an hour or so. -- ***** Have a super day! ***** John H |
Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
On 15 Feb 2007 15:24:51 -0800, "JimH" wrote:
On Feb 15, 6:12 pm, "Chuck Gould" wrote: On Feb 15, 2:50?pm, "JimH" wrote: On Feb 15, 9:39 am, "Chuck Gould" wrote: On Feb 14, 4:51?pm, "JimH" wrote: "Chuck Gould" wrote in message roups.com... On Feb 14, 3:54?pm, "TONY" wrote: Tony Nottingham England 14 February 2007 TO: All People Who Care I am a private individual posting this message to help Laboratory Animals. I apologize if this message is out of place in this group but I think you need to know this. A ?new ?European ?Chemical ?Testing ?Policy ?called REACH has now ?been ?finalised ?by ?the ?European Union. Under these proposals ?Chemicals ?of ?every kind ?- from those used in industrial processes to the ingredients of consumer products - will ?be ?tested on Millions of animals from mice to fish to dogs, causing untold suffering. If you believe that REACH should make more use of Alternative Testing to test its Chemicals then please take action now. If you are a European citizen please contact your local papers and ?own ?MEP asking ?them ?to promote ?the development of humane ?non-animal testing ?methods under the REACH legislation, which is the best hope we have for sparing animals the misery of a testing laboratory. A sample letter can be found at the BUAV (British Union for the Abolition of Vivisection) website atwww.BUAV.org (Select Campaigns, Chemical Testing, ?Get Active then Writing to the local press). For ?all ?Non-European ?members, you ?can still ?help. Please tell all your colleagues and friends in the UK and Europe about REACH. Everyone can help and you can make a difference. Thank You I think the chemicals should be tested on cross posters. ============== I think NG Netcops trump cross posters. Of course you would. You have a lot less interest in boating than you do in snip So sorry Charlie.........but my interest in boating in the midst of winter is pretty low. ?Right now temps are in the single digits, there is over a foot of snow on the ground and my boat has been tucked away and hibernating since late Fall '06. Not all of us eat, drink and sleep boating like you apparently do. Heck, there are several active members in this NG who are non boaters and don't even own a boat. I guess I could repost some JD Power rating spam, but who needs that.......eh? ? ;-)- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - So, let me see if I get this straight: Your particular personal circumstances and local weather mean that filling up the NG for everybody else in the world with OT junk would be preferable to posts that relate to boating. snip Give it up Chuck. No one appreciates your constant netcopping. If you don't like OT then filter them out. If you are going to bitch about OT, then bitch about all of them, including dogs, photography, etc (which I have no problem with) as they are often informative and interesting reads. Time to give up the badge Chuck. ;-) You, of course, are wrong again, Jimmy. |
Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
On Feb 15, 3:38?pm, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote: Chuck Gould wrote: Also sad to think that non-boaters have nothing better to do than hang around a NG dedicated to a pastime they don't pursue. Just out of curiosity, do you post your reviews in rec.boats.cruising? No. That's primarily a sailing group. I'm not a sailor. It's been quite a while since I've posted anything close to a "review" on this site as well. |
Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Feb 15, 3:38?pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: Chuck Gould wrote: Also sad to think that non-boaters have nothing better to do than hang around a NG dedicated to a pastime they don't pursue. Just out of curiosity, do you post your reviews in rec.boats.cruising? No. That's primarily a sailing group. sail·ing noun 1. the activity of a person or thing that sails. 2. the departure of a ship from port: The cruise line offers sailings every other day. 3. Navigation. any of various methods for determining courses and distances by means of charts or with reference to longitudes and latitudes, rhumb lines, great circles, etc. I'm not a sailor. sail.or noun 1. a person whose occupation is sailing or navigation; mariner. 2. a seaman below the rank of officer. 3. a naval enlistee. 4. a person adept at sailing, esp. with reference to freedom from seasickness. Hmmmm - t'would seem to me that you fit the definition of sailing and sailor perfectly. However, even if there are folks who use sail boats in cruising, your whole focus is cruising rather than boats in general - thus it would be more appropriate for you to, well, haunt rec.boats.cruising. I mean, you earn your money editing a magazine which primarily is for cruisers - it would seem to me that you would want to involve yourself in a newsgroup SPECIFICALLY for cruising and those who participate in that aspect of boating rather than a GENERAL newsgroup that relates to boats in general and not CRUISING in particular. :) |
Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
On Feb 15, 4:43�pm, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote: Chuck Gould wrote: On Feb 15, 3:38?pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: Chuck Gould wrote: Also sad to think that non-boaters have nothing better to do than hang around a NG dedicated to a pastime they don't pursue. Just out of curiosity, do you post your reviews in rec.boats.cruising? No. That's primarily a sailing group. sail·ing noun 1. the activity of a person or thing that sails. 2. the departure of a ship from port: The cruise line offers sailings every other day. 3. Navigation. any of various methods for determining courses and distances by means of charts or with reference to longitudes and latitudes, rhumb lines, great circles, etc. I'm not a sailor. sail.or noun 1. *a person whose occupation is sailing or navigation; mariner. 2. a seaman below the rank of officer. 3. a naval enlistee. 4. a person adept at sailing, esp. with reference to freedom from seasickness. Hmmmm - t'would seem to me that you fit the definition of sailing and sailor perfectly. However, even if there are folks who use sail boats in cruising, your whole focus is cruising rather than boats in general - thus it would be more appropriate for you to, well, haunt rec.boats.cruising. I mean, you earn your money editing a magazine which primarily is for cruisers - it would seem to me that you would want to involve yourself in a newsgroup SPECIFICALLY for cruising and those who participate in that aspect of boating rather than a GENERAL newsgroup that relates to boats in general and not CRUISING in particular. *:) Interesting perspective. So then what, in your opinion, is the difference between "general boating" and specific boating activities? Should fishing posts be considered out of place at rec.boats? Lots of people boat but don't fish. I'll bet there are fishing newsgroups out there somewhere. How about water skiing posts? I've never been on a water ski in my entire life. If you eliminate every single boating activity as too specialized, all that would be left in rec.boats would be the non-boating social chit chat. At that point it would hardly be a boating newsgroup. A dynamic boating newsgroup would be a group where different people contribute from their own unique perspective, allowing everybody to gain a wider perspective and appreciation of the pastime. If you feel that my particular boating experiences or perspectives aren't of interest to you, they may be of interest to somebody else. 90% of what you post here is entirely OT and profoundly uninteresting to me, but IMO as long as you aren't actively trolling for a fight (as some of the other OT specialists prefer to do) your activity is harmless clutter. Your daily links to You-tube videos always seem to find one or two interested respondents. Even if your posts were "harmful" clutter, beyond expressing an opinion there would be nothing that could be done about it. Perhaps we won't ever see eye to eye on this issue, but that doesn't have to mean that either one of us is a bad guy. Don't like my stuff, don't read it. Surely you must have a filter? |
Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... " Don't like my stuff, don't read it. Surely you must have a filter?" -Chuck Gould- "rec.boats" Eisboch |
Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
Chuck Gould wrote:
A dynamic boating newsgroup would be a group where different people contribute from their own unique perspective, allowing everybody to gain a wider perspective and appreciation of the pastime. If you feel that my particular boating experiences or perspectives aren't of interest to you, they may be of interest to somebody else. That's true. And, for the record, I've never once said that your posts weren't germane to the nature of the newsgroup. In fact, I think you would find quite the opposite. And, if you care to check, I have been more than effusive in recommending your magazine as a good read full of talented writers and edited by a pro. My point was this - you want something that is unachievable in a group in which the participants are, but their very nature, interested in everything from soup to nuts. It is of no benefit to you to constantly rail against the tide and all it does is create the very situation that you abhor by attracting to you the very ones whose existence here is fold, spindle and mutilate. In essence to share differing interests is a natural function in a community where individual life experience varies from the sublime to the outrageous. Should you have taken your posts on bagpipes to rec.music.bagpipes.annoying.the.neighbors.suicide. to.the.point.of? Put it another way. If you go to your yacht club holiday celebration (pick a holiday - any holiday) do you just discuss boats, cruising, the latest in GPS technology or does the discussion among groups scattered about wander to concerts, local events, shools, politics? Consider this that type of party - a place where discussions are curiosities that should be enjoyed - if they are specific to the purpose, fine - if not, who cares. 90% of what you post here is entirely OT and profoundly uninteresting to me, but IMO as long as you aren't actively trolling for a fight (as some of the other OT specialists prefer to do) your activity is harmless clutter. Your daily links to You-tube videos always seem to find one or two interested respondents. Even if your posts were "harmful" clutter, beyond expressing an opinion there would be nothing that could be done about it. I beg to differ. It's actually about 50/50 and where appropriate, in threads where I might have knowledge or insight to share, I certainly do so without reservation. What I find curious though is the approach that you have with regard to the off topic and oddball discussion. I might point out that you are not the arbiter of what is and isn't appropriate. Usenet groups are the ultimate democracy - almost libertarian - and the group reigns supreme over attempts by those who wish to control. Your role in this is as one who chides and nags and attempts to force your opinion on everyone else. You might say you are the very thing you rail against with your only defense being that you wish for "purity" rather than chaos. I vote for chaos. Perhaps we won't ever see eye to eye on this issue, but that doesn't have to mean that either one of us is a bad guy. I would agree with that. Don't like my stuff, don't read it. Well, I might say the same. Surely you must have a filter? Why yes I do, but that's the difference between you and me. I don't censor myself to "boating" - I like to see what others think, how they express themselves, how they behave in a confrontation - it's endlessly fascinating and often amusing - the follies of social interaction if you will. You get a sense of personality - it's an endless theater of the mind almost as good as old time radio. You can't beat it. |
Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
On Feb 15, 6:53�pm, Short Wave Sportfishing
What I find curious though is the approach that you have with regard to the off topic and oddball discussion. *I might point out that you are not the arbiter of what is and isn't appropriate. *Usenet groups are the ultimate democracy - almost libertarian - and the group reigns supreme over attempts by those who wish to control. Your role in this is as one who chides and nags and attempts to force your opinion on everyone else. * You might say you are the very thing you rail against with your only defense being that you wish for "purity" rather than chaos. I vote for chaos. And that is surely your privilege to do. But, in trying to foster chaos, how is your activity any different than mine? (Aside from the end you hope to achieve). You prefer a group where chaos reigns, where you can be entertained by the flame wars and "observe" personalities interacting. I feel that the group has been there, done that, and over the years we have become less useful as a resource for boaters as a result. I will continue to "jawbone" for a group where we stick to boating most of the time. You don't have to like that or agree that having a group centered on boating is better than a group with no particular focus at all. You will probably continue to use the group as a blog, informing us all about the details of your personal life and posting links to videos you find amusing. I don't have to care much either way about that, or agree that flame wars are useful entertainment. None of us have any ability to "control" anybody else. How unfortunate that anybody would interpret the expression of my personal opinion as some sort of control mechanism. Perhaps my opinion will influence somebody, perhaps not. Same as the opinions you express- no difference at all. (BTW, you asked about discussions at the yacht club; one thing that is never, ever, ever discussed is partisan politics. In general, the members respect one another enough to also respect individual political perspectives. Live and let live.) The sign over the cyber door still says "Boating Newsgroup". I fail to see how it is wrong to try to influence content toward that end. It's your right and privilege to disagree. |
Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
I couldn't agree more, Chuck.
--Mike "Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... On Feb 15, 6:53?pm, Short Wave Sportfishing What I find curious though is the approach that you have with regard to the off topic and oddball discussion. I might point out that you are not the arbiter of what is and isn't appropriate. Usenet groups are the ultimate democracy - almost libertarian - and the group reigns supreme over attempts by those who wish to control. Your role in this is as one who chides and nags and attempts to force your opinion on everyone else. You might say you are the very thing you rail against with your only defense being that you wish for "purity" rather than chaos. I vote for chaos. And that is surely your privilege to do. But, in trying to foster chaos, how is your activity any different than mine? (Aside from the end you hope to achieve). You prefer a group where chaos reigns, where you can be entertained by the flame wars and "observe" personalities interacting. I feel that the group has been there, done that, and over the years we have become less useful as a resource for boaters as a result. I will continue to "jawbone" for a group where we stick to boating most of the time. You don't have to like that or agree that having a group centered on boating is better than a group with no particular focus at all. You will probably continue to use the group as a blog, informing us all about the details of your personal life and posting links to videos you find amusing. I don't have to care much either way about that, or agree that flame wars are useful entertainment. None of us have any ability to "control" anybody else. How unfortunate that anybody would interpret the expression of my personal opinion as some sort of control mechanism. Perhaps my opinion will influence somebody, perhaps not. Same as the opinions you express- no difference at all. (BTW, you asked about discussions at the yacht club; one thing that is never, ever, ever discussed is partisan politics. In general, the members respect one another enough to also respect individual political perspectives. Live and let live.) The sign over the cyber door still says "Boating Newsgroup". I fail to see how it is wrong to try to influence content toward that end. It's your right and privilege to disagree. |
Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Feb 15, 6:53�pm, Short Wave Sportfishing What I find curious though is the approach that you have with regard to the off topic and oddball discussion. �I might point out that you are not the arbiter of what is and isn't appropriate. �Usenet groups are the ultimate democracy - almost libertarian - and the group reigns supreme over attempts by those who wish to control. Your role in this is as one who chides and nags and attempts to force your opinion on everyone else. � You might say you are the very thing you rail against with your only defense being that you wish for "purity" rather than chaos. I vote for chaos. And that is surely your privilege to do. But, in trying to foster chaos, how is your activity any different than mine? (Aside from the end you hope to achieve). You prefer a group where chaos reigns, where you can be entertained by the flame wars and "observe" personalities interacting. I feel that the group has been there, done that, and over the years we have become less useful as a resource for boaters as a result. I would posit that it's finished it's intended purpose long ago. There are more resources on the Web, more detail, more expertise - everything from boating blogs to discussion forums on manufacturer's sites to - well, it's all there already - even digest forms. How many times does a question have to be answered before you point to the search engine of choice with the appropriate URL and say, look here - your answer lies at the feet of the Oracle of Google. Out of curiosity, just this past few minutes, I Googled algae problems for diesel fuel and found eleven entries on the web that detailed the problem and probable causes and solutions. Why ask here for opinion when one can find factual resources? Usenet had it's time and it's well past. I will continue to "jawbone" for a group where we stick to boating most of the time. You don't have to like that or agree that having a group centered on boating is better than a group with no particular focus at all. The "focused" groups are moderated forums on the Web where individuals submit entries, have them approved and posted. These range from purpose specific forums like hunting, fishing, sailing, power boating, trailer boating to email lists which, by the way, have supplanted Usenet if only for the same reasons you attempt to dictate here - purpose built and subscribed to. I belong to four email lists that are specific to my interests - International trucks/tractors, Corvette, club list and one photography group which is attached to a site that I post to - two of which I moderate. I have no problems with annotating a particular post with editorial commentary and allowing the discussion to broaden, but I have limits, as do the group members and attempt to keep the discussions on track. I have terminated discussions that achieved all that could be achieved with an explanation of why I used my authority as moderator. Sometimes, other moderators might question a particular post or thread and we hash that out offline and come to a consensus. That is how the email groups were chartered and that's how they work. You want to have a purpose built Usenet group that serves no purpose - it seems a little Quixotic. Boating is what brought us together as individuals - note the individuals. In any group of individuals, interests vary and I'll say it again - it's a yacht club party only a little more open. You will probably continue to use the group as a blog, informing us all about the details of your personal life and posting links to videos you find amusing. I don't have to care much either way about that, or agree that flame wars are useful entertainment. I suppose your entry about Valentines Day disguised as a boating thread was - interesting? Was that informative - something that nobody else in the whole of this august body never knew? Was it related to boating in some way or just finger exercise warming up for your next editorial? Oddly, I saw several Valentines Day blog entries similar to yours here - hmmmm....pot - kettle - black? None of us have any ability to "control" anybody else. How unfortunate that anybody would interpret the expression of my personal opinion as some sort of control mechanism. Perhaps my opinion will influence somebody, perhaps not. Same as the opinions you express- no difference at all. It is exactly an attempt at control - from the Chuckie dots to the quasi-resource "articles" - you use this group exactly as I or others do - not as often, but the intent is the same. People in glass houses - et cetera. (BTW, you asked about discussions at the yacht club; one thing that is never, ever, ever discussed is partisan politics. In general, the members respect one another enough to also respect individual political perspectives. Live and let live.) Oh please. Politics is politics from who is going to be the next Commodore or Race Director to what the club will or will not support. Each side of an issue is partisan with respect to each other. The sign over the cyber door still says "Boating Newsgroup". I fail to see how it is wrong to try to influence content toward that end. It's your right and privilege to disagree. Very - um...enlightened of you. And I do. |
Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
Mike wrote:
I couldn't agree more, Chuck. One vote for Chuck. :) |
Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 02:53:30 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote: Chuck Gould wrote: A dynamic boating newsgroup would be a group where different people contribute from their own unique perspective, allowing everybody to gain a wider perspective and appreciation of the pastime. If you feel that my particular boating experiences or perspectives aren't of interest to you, they may be of interest to somebody else. That's true. And, for the record, I've never once said that your posts weren't germane to the nature of the newsgroup. In fact, I think you would find quite the opposite. And, if you care to check, I have been more than effusive in recommending your magazine as a good read full of talented writers and edited by a pro. My point was this - you want something that is unachievable in a group in which the participants are, but their very nature, interested in everything from soup to nuts. It is of no benefit to you to constantly rail against the tide and all it does is create the very situation that you abhor by attracting to you the very ones whose existence here is fold, spindle and mutilate. In essence to share differing interests is a natural function in a community where individual life experience varies from the sublime to the outrageous. Should you have taken your posts on bagpipes to rec.music.bagpipes.annoying.the.neighbors.suicide .to.the.point.of? Put it another way. If you go to your yacht club holiday celebration (pick a holiday - any holiday) do you just discuss boats, cruising, the latest in GPS technology or does the discussion among groups scattered about wander to concerts, local events, shools, politics? Consider this that type of party - a place where discussions are curiosities that should be enjoyed - if they are specific to the purpose, fine - if not, who cares. 90% of what you post here is entirely OT and profoundly uninteresting to me, but IMO as long as you aren't actively trolling for a fight (as some of the other OT specialists prefer to do) your activity is harmless clutter. Your daily links to You-tube videos always seem to find one or two interested respondents. Even if your posts were "harmful" clutter, beyond expressing an opinion there would be nothing that could be done about it. I beg to differ. It's actually about 50/50 and where appropriate, in threads where I might have knowledge or insight to share, I certainly do so without reservation. What I find curious though is the approach that you have with regard to the off topic and oddball discussion. I might point out that you are not the arbiter of what is and isn't appropriate. Usenet groups are the ultimate democracy - almost libertarian - and the group reigns supreme over attempts by those who wish to control. Your role in this is as one who chides and nags and attempts to force your opinion on everyone else. You might say you are the very thing you rail against with your only defense being that you wish for "purity" rather than chaos. I vote for chaos. Perhaps we won't ever see eye to eye on this issue, but that doesn't have to mean that either one of us is a bad guy. I would agree with that. Don't like my stuff, don't read it. Well, I might say the same. Surely you must have a filter? Why yes I do, but that's the difference between you and me. I don't censor myself to "boating" - I like to see what others think, how they express themselves, how they behave in a confrontation - it's endlessly fascinating and often amusing - the follies of social interaction if you will. You get a sense of personality - it's an endless theater of the mind almost as good as old time radio. You can't beat it. The folks over in a.politics would love your chaos, especially if it's political or religious and results in a lot of name calling. I can't believe you *prefer* that. -- ***** Have a decent day! ***** John H |
Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
JLH wrote:
The folks over in a.politics would love your chaos, especially if it's political or religious and results in a lot of name calling. I can't believe you *prefer* that. Hmmmm - perhaps a small, slight twist of phrase would be in order. How about "ordered" chaos? Chaos is a concept and in the context of rec.boats and my discussion with Chuck, it pertains to the off-topic threads as they often appear here. It's a relative term and not meant, in this discussion anyway, to be taken literally. Perhaps I should have used disorder rather than chaos. |
Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 12:35:01 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote: JLH wrote: The folks over in a.politics would love your chaos, especially if it's political or religious and results in a lot of name calling. I can't believe you *prefer* that. Hmmmm - perhaps a small, slight twist of phrase would be in order. How about "ordered" chaos? Chaos is a concept and in the context of rec.boats and my discussion with Chuck, it pertains to the off-topic threads as they often appear here. It's a relative term and not meant, in this discussion anyway, to be taken literally. Perhaps I should have used disorder rather than chaos. As long as the 'ordered' part of the chaos precludes political or religious trolls intended to cause flame fests... -- ***** Have a decent day! ***** John H |
Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
JLH wrote: The folks over in a.politics would love your chaos, especially if it's political or religious and results in a lot of name calling. I can't believe you *prefer* that. Hmmmm - perhaps a small, slight twist of phrase would be in order. How about "ordered" chaos? Chaos is a concept and in the context of rec.boats and my discussion with Chuck, it pertains to the off-topic threads as they often appear here. It's a relative term and not meant, in this discussion anyway, to be taken literally. Perhaps I should have used disorder rather than chaos. Frankly, I consider almost any activity here that ****es off the self-righteous a**holes who plague this newsgroup worthwhile. |
Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 07:50:04 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote: Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: JLH wrote: The folks over in a.politics would love your chaos, especially if it's political or religious and results in a lot of name calling. I can't believe you *prefer* that. Hmmmm - perhaps a small, slight twist of phrase would be in order. How about "ordered" chaos? Chaos is a concept and in the context of rec.boats and my discussion with Chuck, it pertains to the off-topic threads as they often appear here. It's a relative term and not meant, in this discussion anyway, to be taken literally. Perhaps I should have used disorder rather than chaos. Frankly, I consider almost any activity here that ****es off the self-righteous a**holes who plague this newsgroup worthwhile. You're just too neat for words, Harry! How're the rest of the Neato Hazeltones doing today? Your last 400 posts have been *most* worthwhile! -- ***** Have a decent day! ***** John H |
Sailng (was Europe Tests ....)
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote: sail.or noun 1. a person whose occupation is sailing or navigation; mariner. 2. a seaman below the rank of officer. 3. a naval enlistee. 4. a person adept at sailing, esp. with reference to freedom from seasickness. Hmmmm - t'would seem to me that you fit the definition of sailing and sailor perfectly. However, even if there are folks who use sail boats in cruising, your whole focus is cruising rather than boats in general - thus it would be more appropriate for you to, well, haunt rec.boats.cruising. I mean, you earn your money editing a magazine which primarily is for cruisers - it would seem to me that you would want to involve yourself in a newsgroup SPECIFICALLY for cruising and those who participate in that aspect of boating rather than a GENERAL newsgroup that relates to boats in general and not CRUISING in particular. :) Speaking of sailing, I always enjoy watching the regattas on the lake. I go to the upwind weathermark (especially on the first leg where the boats are still grouped together) just to enjoy the boats fighting for position and the crew in organized chaos raising the spinnaker. As soon as it warms up, I plan on placing my boat at the weathermark, so I can photograph the crew in action. Most sailing photos I see focus on the boats, and the beauty of the sails, I want to zoom in and focus on the crew and skipper. Now all I need to do is find someone I trust to handle my boat while I focus on taking the photos. |
Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
JLH wrote: The folks over in a.politics would love your chaos, especially if it's political or religious and results in a lot of name calling. I can't believe you *prefer* that. Hmmmm - perhaps a small, slight twist of phrase would be in order. How about "ordered" chaos? Chaos is a concept and in the context of rec.boats and my discussion with Chuck, it pertains to the off-topic threads as they often appear here. It's a relative term and not meant, in this discussion anyway, to be taken literally. Perhaps I should have used disorder rather than chaos. Tom, I enjoy a lively discussion, unfortunately most political discussions in rec.boats focused on "your an a**hole", "I know you are but what am I". The problem for rec.boats was that no on topic discussion could get past one or two responses before it reverted to "your an a**hole", "I know you are but what am I". Rec.boats still has Off topic discussion, some political in nature, but at one time the cut and paste news articles had turned rec.boats into 95% cut and paste and the "your an a**hole", "I know you are but what am I" responses. There was one person who would cut and paste 20-30 news article a day, and then would actually discourage discussion by encouraging others not to respond to the right wing excrement except to hurl insults. No one can force or enforce a Newsgroup policy, but if the majority agree that the insults are a waste of time, the quantity of silly flame fest will decrease. |
Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
"Eisboch" wrote in message . .. "Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... " Don't like my stuff, don't read it. Surely you must have a filter?" -Chuck Gould- "rec.boats" Eisboch Hee Hee. Did Chuckie really say that? Florida Jim |
Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: JLH wrote: The folks over in a.politics would love your chaos, especially if it's political or religious and results in a lot of name calling. I can't believe you *prefer* that. Hmmmm - perhaps a small, slight twist of phrase would be in order. How about "ordered" chaos? Chaos is a concept and in the context of rec.boats and my discussion with Chuck, it pertains to the off-topic threads as they often appear here. It's a relative term and not meant, in this discussion anyway, to be taken literally. Perhaps I should have used disorder rather than chaos. Frankly, I consider almost any activity here that ****es off the self-righteous a**holes who plague this newsgroup worthwhile. Harry You're right. Keeping Chuckie tuned up is a most noble cause. Keep up the good work. Is Chuckie the new Skipper? Florida Jim |
Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
Jim wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: JLH wrote: The folks over in a.politics would love your chaos, especially if it's political or religious and results in a lot of name calling. I can't believe you *prefer* that. Hmmmm - perhaps a small, slight twist of phrase would be in order. How about "ordered" chaos? Chaos is a concept and in the context of rec.boats and my discussion with Chuck, it pertains to the off-topic threads as they often appear here. It's a relative term and not meant, in this discussion anyway, to be taken literally. Perhaps I should have used disorder rather than chaos. Frankly, I consider almost any activity here that ****es off the self-righteous a**holes who plague this newsgroup worthwhile. Harry You're right. Keeping Chuckie tuned up is a most noble cause. Keep up the good work. Is Chuckie the new Skipper? Florida Jim In any field of human endeavor, the self-righteous are the a**holes. Skipper used fewer words, and his prose wasn't nearly as overinflated, overwrought and purple as Chuck's. He apparently has never had to turn his writings in to a professionally educated and trained editor. |
Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
On Feb 16, 4:03�am, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote: Chuck Gould wrote: On Feb 15, 6:53?pm, Short Wave Sportfishing What I find curious though is the approach that you have with regard to the off topic and oddball discussion. ?I might point out that you are not the arbiter of what is and isn't appropriate. ?Usenet groups are the ultimate democracy - almost libertarian - and the group reigns supreme over attempts by those who wish to control. Your role in this is as one who chides and nags and attempts to force your opinion on everyone else. ? You might say you are the very thing you rail against with your only defense being that you wish for "purity" rather than chaos. I vote for chaos. And that is surely your privilege to do. But, in trying to foster chaos, how is your activity any different than mine? (Aside from the end you hope to achieve). You prefer a group where chaos reigns, where you can be entertained by the flame wars and "observe" personalities interacting. I feel that the group has been there, done that, and over the years we have become less useful as a resource for boaters as a result. I would posit that it's finished it's intended purpose long ago. *There are more resources on the Web, more detail, more expertise - everything from boating blogs to discussion forums on manufacturer's sites to - well, it's all there already - even digest forms. How many times does a question have to be answered before you point to the search engine of choice with the appropriate URL and say, look here - your answer lies at the feet of the Oracle of Google. If only it were that simple. (Who was the guy back in the 1800's who said that everything worth having had already been invented?) Most things related to boating have multiple answers, and often the right approach to a problem is a matter of opinion. Google up "how to refinish teak", for example. I'm sure you'll find a couple of dozen entires detailing the right technique, the right product, the proper results one should expect, etc. Makes for a lively discussion. Out of curiosity, just this past few minutes, I Googled algae problems for diesel fuel and found eleven entries on the web that detailed the problem and probable causes and solutions. Why ask here for opinion when one can find factual resources? See above. The "factual resources" seldom agree, and at that point it is useful to try to sort through the conflicting points by examining personal experience and understandings of other mariners. Usenet had it's time and it's well past. I will continue to "jawbone" for a group where we stick to boating most of the time. You don't have to like that or agree that having a group centered on boating is better than a group with no particular focus at all. The "focused" groups are moderated forums on the Web where individuals submit entries, have them approved and posted. *These range from purpose specific forums like hunting, fishing, sailing, power boating, trailer boating to email lists which, by the way, have supplanted Usenet if only for the same reasons you attempt to dictate here - purpose built and subscribed to. *I belong to four email lists that are specific to my interests - International trucks/tractors, Corvette, club list and one photography group which is attached to a site that I post to - two of which I moderate. *I have no problems with annotating a particular post with editorial commentary and allowing the discussion to broaden, but I have limits, as do the group members and attempt to keep the discussions on track. *I have terminated discussions that achieved all that could be achieved with an explanation of why I used my authority as moderator. Sometimes, other moderators might question a particular post or thread and we hash that out offline and come to a consensus. That is how the email groups were chartered and that's how they work. Do you foster chaos in your photo groups? In your function as moderator of photos-are-us or what not, do you encourage people to post items about tuning up an outboard or endorse posts made solely for the purpose to starting or spreading a flame war? You want to have a purpose built Usenet group that serves no purpose - it seems a little Quixotic. It's not up to me to define the purpose of the group. The group exists to promote the discussion of boats and boating. (hence the name) Those who feel that the group doesn't meet their needs in that regard have a few choices. They can try to increase the amount of boating related content, they can flee to greener pastures (as many have done), or they can conclude that the group serves no purpose and attempt to bend it to their own purposes instead. Boating is what brought us together as individuals - note the individuals. In any group of individuals, interests vary and I'll say it again - it's a yacht club party only a little more open. You will probably continue to use the group as a blog, informing us all about the details of your personal life and posting links to videos you find amusing. I don't have to care much either way about that, or agree that flame wars are useful entertainment. I suppose your entry about Valentines Day disguised as a boating thread was - interesting? *Was that informative - something that nobody else in the whole of this august body never knew? *Was it related to boating in some way or just finger exercise warming up for your next editorial? Oddly, I saw several Valentines Day blog entries similar to yours here - hmmmm....pot - kettle - black? The VD deal was somewhat OT, I agree. Wouldn't it be great if we could easily identify the rare OT posts for most of the participants? As it is, there are a handful who would surprise everybody if they ever posted *on* topic. None of us have any ability to "control" anybody else. How unfortunate that anybody would interpret the expression of my personal opinion as some sort of control mechanism. Perhaps my opinion will influence somebody, perhaps not. Same as the opinions you express- no difference at all. It is exactly an attempt at control - from the Chuckie dots to the quasi-resource "articles" - you use this group exactly as I or others do - not as often, but the intent is the same. I'm missing something. You accuse me of trying to control the group, then say that I behave exactly as you do, only not as often and with the same intent. What does that mean? That you are trying to control the group so you assume I must be as well? (BTW, you asked about discussions at the yacht club; one thing that is never, ever, ever discussed is partisan politics. In general, the members respect one another enough to also respect individual political perspectives. Live and let live.) Oh please. Politics is politics from who is going to be the next Commodore or Race Director to what the club will or will not support. Each side of an issue is partisan with respect to each other. Would you be surprised to learn that almost nobody wants to be Commodore? The nominating committee of most clubs has to all but beg people to go through the chairs. Yacht club "elections" usually feature one poor victim, running unopposed. The vote is usually unanimous, with everybody in the room breathing a sigh of relief that they were able to escape the annual draft (nominating committee) once again. Clubs do become politically active over non-partisan issues that may adversely impact boating, i.e. "shall pleasure boats be required to install grey water holding tanks". We had a committee chair at the podium at our last meeting wander off into a partisan political area in his report and he was hooted down with cries of "no politics!" from several members in attendance. I suspect, but don't know, that the members reminding him not to be political were from both sides of the issue in question. (What yacht club do you belong to? If you presume to speak with authority about the politics of a yacht club, or how rec.boats is just one big yacht club discussion, it must be based on some sort of experience. Maybe your clubs back east are as you describe, I wouldn't know). The sign over the cyber door still says "Boating Newsgroup". I fail to see how it is wrong to try to influence content toward that end. It's your right and privilege to disagree. Very - um...enlightened of you. And I do.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
Sailng (was Europe Tests ....)
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
Speaking of sailing, I always enjoy watching the regattas on the lake. I go to the upwind weathermark (especially on the first leg where the boats are still grouped together) just to enjoy the boats fighting for position and the crew in organized chaos raising the spinnaker. As soon as it warms up, I plan on placing my boat at the weathermark, so I can photograph the crew in action. Most sailing photos I see focus on the boats, and the beauty of the sails, I want to zoom in and focus on the crew and skipper. Now all I need to do is find someone I trust to handle my boat while I focus on taking the photos. You would love it around Seal Rock off South Beach in Newport. Often, the classic 12 meter American's Cup boats will come in from wherever they were racing that day and watching them heeled over with the full compliment of crew on the rails is quite a sight. There are also some classic sail boats that cruise through East Passage all the time - get some great shots there. |
Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
I enjoy a lively discussion, unfortunately most political discussions in rec.boats focused on "your an a**hole", "I know you are but what am I". The problem for rec.boats was that no on topic discussion could get past one or two responses before it reverted to "your an a**hole", "I know you are but what am I". Rec.boats still has Off topic discussion, some political in nature, but at one time the cut and paste news articles had turned rec.boats into 95% cut and paste and the "your an a**hole", "I know you are but what am I" responses. There was one person who would cut and paste 20-30 news article a day, and then would actually discourage discussion by encouraging others not to respond to the right wing excrement except to hurl insults. Well, that's a casualty of the infoweb. Usenet used to be a valuable resource for questions and information. You think this is bad, wander through some of the more political blogs and see what happens there. I've said it before and I'll say it again - most of the "flamers" here are amateurs and bad amateurs at that. No one can force or enforce a Newsgroup policy, but if the majority agree that the insults are a waste of time, the quantity of silly flame fest will decrease. I quite agree. |
Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote: I enjoy a lively discussion, unfortunately most political discussions in rec.boats focused on "your an a**hole", "I know you are but what am I". The problem for rec.boats was that no on topic discussion could get past one or two responses before it reverted to "your an a**hole", "I know you are but what am I". Rec.boats still has Off topic discussion, some political in nature, but at one time the cut and paste news articles had turned rec.boats into 95% cut and paste and the "your an a**hole", "I know you are but what am I" responses. There was one person who would cut and paste 20-30 news article a day, and then would actually discourage discussion by encouraging others not to respond to the right wing excrement except to hurl insults. Well, that's a casualty of the infoweb. Usenet used to be a valuable resource for questions and information. You think this is bad, wander through some of the more political blogs and see what happens there. I've said it before and I'll say it again - most of the "flamers" here are amateurs and bad amateurs at that. No one can force or enforce a Newsgroup policy, but if the majority agree that the insults are a waste of time, the quantity of silly flame fest will decrease. I quite agree. Reggie, of course, has a well-deserved reputation as one of the biggest flamers ever here, along with his reputation of posting here under about 50 different identities. There's nothing quite like his sort of self-righteous a**hole. |
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