Roll class for sea kayakers?
Looking through the local sports magazine (Boulder, Colorado), I see
lot's of "roll classes" for whitewater kayaks. Do sea kayakers need this, too. I know what rolling is -- seems to me that if a sea kayak is flipped due to a wave or something, it'd be good to know how to roll back up. Or is just getting out of the kayak sufficient? TIA |
Roll class for sea kayakers?
On Feb 12, 9:53 pm, "Moby Dick" wrote:
Looking through the local sports magazine (Boulder, Colorado), I see lot's of "roll classes" for whitewater kayaks. Do sea kayakers need this, too. I know what rolling is -- seems to me that if a sea kayak is flipped due to a wave or something, it'd be good to know how to roll back up. Or is just getting out of the kayak sufficient? TIA The roll is more crucial for WW kayakers than sea kayakers because the water that WW kayakers are generally on is moving (rivers) and what's immediately downstream of a WW kayaker who flipped is usually hazardous, whereas when a sea kayaker flips, the water is generally not moving, so the sea kayaker has the option of doing a number of different solo or assisted rescues. These options are generally not available to a flipped WW kayaker, and certainly not within the WW kayaker has to right themselves before hitting a rock or going over a pourover or something similarly hazardous. The flipped WW kayaker needs to get right side up ASAP, and the roll does that. The roll is basically the same for the sea kayak as it is for the WW kayak, namely head down and hip snap. (And let's not turn this into a discussion of the myriad different ways to roll a kayak, they are mostly basically the same!) As a WW kayaker who ventured into the world of sea kayaking as an instructor, I feel much more secure in a boat I can roll. I think it would be good for all kayakers to learn the roll, but as I said it's not nearly as crucial for a sea kayaker to be able to roll a sea kayak as it is a WW kayaker to roll a WW kayak. John Kuthe... |
Roll class for sea kayakers?
"Moby Dick" wrote in
oups.com: Looking through the local sports magazine (Boulder, Colorado), I see lot's of "roll classes" for whitewater kayaks. Do sea kayakers need this, too. I know what rolling is -- seems to me that if a sea kayak is flipped due to a wave or something, it'd be good to know how to roll back up. Or is just getting out of the kayak sufficient? Good question. The topic has been discussed in the past with varying opinions on the importance of learning to roll in a sea kayak. John's response covered some good points but I have a couple of things to add. Consider this: You're paddling a sea kayak 1/4 mile offshore in 50 degree waters (or colder) and you capsize. If you roll up you're back out of the water in seconds. The alternative is exiting the kayak (a wet exit). IMHO, learning how to wet exit is the first thing that anyone getting into a kayak should know. The second thing is learning how to get back into the kayak while in deep water. If the water is very cold and you can't get back into your boat it's unlikely that you'll make it to shore before succumbing to hypothermia if you try to swim. Most good beginning kayak classes will cover the basic strokes, but will also teach out to wet exist and show you several techniques for reentering the boat. There are also some good books on the subject (do an amazon search on sea kayak rescue). Many will also recommend getting a copy of "Deep Trouble". |
Roll class for sea kayakers?
Moby Dick wrote:
Looking through the local sports magazine (Boulder, Colorado), I see lot's of "roll classes" for whitewater kayaks. Do sea kayakers need this, too. Yes, they do, especially when paddling in cold water. Unfortunately, most sea kayakers never bother to learn to roll, which is really short-sighted. Rolling is not only an important safety skill, but it's a "gateway" skill that makes it much easier to learn more advanced edging, bracing and paddle strokes. Knowing how to roll can result in dramatically improved boat handling ability overall. I know what rolling is -- seems to me that if a sea kayak is flipped due to a wave or something, it'd be good to know how to roll back up. Or is just getting out of the kayak sufficient? Although knowing how to wet exit is obviously important, it should be regarded as a last resort, not an integral part of one's safety strategy. A good analogy might be falling while skiing. Anyone can stop on skis by simply falling down (and beginners are often taught to do so), but it's not the first choice or the best choice, it's what you do when all else fails. |
Roll class for sea kayakers?
Moby
I have paddled both Whitewater and Sea and would advise that working towards being a proficent roller is a must. It will give you a great boost in your confidence as well as being very useful both on sea, in surf landing or on a river. Rolling is rolling, so to starting learning in a whiteboat boat is ok. The main thing is get the basics and then try it in as may boats as you can as they all have a different feel and tricks depending on the hull design and boat volume I was on a trip when a guy flipped as we where coming into a tight cove entrance with some rocks. It took two of us to get the guy back in his boat with a third towing aginst the tide and wind to keep from washing on the rocks. If the guy had been able to roll we I would have had a far less scary thoughts as I looked over my sholder a the white stuff breaking behind us. try the following resouces The Bombproof roll and beyond by paul dutky isbn 0-89732-085-9 The Kayak Roll by kent ford www.performancevideo.com The main thing to rember when rolling loaded sea boats is they take a lot loger to get the momentum going so you need to slow the roll down a bit when compared to a small pool practice boat. Also extend the lever by moving your grip to one end of the paddle shaft. the rest is just practice, and don't forget the nose clip!!!! I usually do a few parctice rolls on the end of each session just to keep my hand in with diferent boats. Try progresing from and eskimo or T-Rescue first, then rolloing and finally re-entry and roll or eskimo rescue. A paddle float and good pump will also come in handy while yo get the hang of it. Best of luck Gary "Moby Dick" wrote in message oups.com... Looking through the local sports magazine (Boulder, Colorado), I see lot's of "roll classes" for whitewater kayaks. Do sea kayakers need this, too. I know what rolling is -- seems to me that if a sea kayak is flipped due to a wave or something, it'd be good to know how to roll back up. Or is just getting out of the kayak sufficient? TIA |
Roll class for sea kayakers?
I just bought a kayak for my wife. It came with "The complete Book of
Sea Kayaking" by Derek Hutchinson I would recommend it highly. A lot of people will want to paddle without a skirt(as in here in Florida) so it is very important to learn how to get back in a kayak after flipping. Equipment needs include a pump and a paddle bag (not sure what you call it but you inflate it, put your paddle in it and it acts as a stabilizer to help you get back in the boat).. Can't overemphasize safety! Totally agree with need to practice rolling for itself but also for boat handling.. Monk On Feb 13, 7:53 pm, "Debbie Archer" wrote: Moby I have paddled both Whitewater and Sea and would advise that working towards being a proficent roller is a must. It will give you a great boost in your confidence as well as being very useful both on sea, in surf landing or on a river. Rolling is rolling, so to starting learning in a whiteboat boat is ok. The main thing is get the basics and then try it in as may boats as you can as they all have a different feel and tricks depending on the hull design and boat volume I was on a trip when a guy flipped as we where coming into a tight cove entrance with some rocks. It took two of us to get the guy back in his boat with a third towing aginst the tide and wind to keep from washing on the rocks. If the guy had been able to roll we I would have had a far less scary thoughts as I looked over my sholder a the white stuff breaking behind us. try the following resouces The Bombproof roll and beyond by paul dutky isbn 0-89732-085-9 The Kayak Roll by kent ford www.performancevideo.com The main thing to rember when rolling loaded sea boats is they take a lot loger to get the momentum going so you need to slow the roll down a bit when compared to a small pool practice boat. Also extend the lever by moving your grip to one end of the paddle shaft. the rest is just practice, and don't forget the nose clip!!!! I usually do a few parctice rolls on the end of each session just to keep my hand in with diferent boats. Try progresing from and eskimo or T-Rescue first, then rolloing and finally re-entry and roll or eskimo rescue. A paddle float and good pump will also come in handy while yo get the hang of it. Best of luck Gary "Moby Dick" wrote in message oups.com... Looking through the local sports magazine (Boulder, Colorado), I see lot's of "roll classes" for whitewater kayaks. Do sea kayakers need this, too. I know what rolling is -- seems to me that if a sea kayak is flipped due to a wave or something, it'd be good to know how to roll back up. Or is just getting out of the kayak sufficient? TIA |
Roll class for sea kayakers?
On Feb 14, 8:40 am, "Monk Terry" wrote:
I just bought a kayak for my wife. It came with "The complete Book of Sea Kayaking" by Derek Hutchinson I would recommend it highly. A lot of people will want to paddle without a skirt(as in here in Florida) so it is very important to learn how to get back in a kayak after flipping. Equipment needs include a pump and a paddle bag (not sure what you call it but you inflate it, put your paddle in it and it acts as a stabilizer to help you get back in the boat).. Can't overemphasize safety! Totally agree with need to practice rolling for itself but also for boat handling.. Monk On Feb 13, 7:53 pm, "Debbie Archer" wrote: Moby I have paddled both Whitewater and Sea and would advise that working towards being a proficent roller is a must. It will give you a great boost in your confidence as well as being very useful both on sea, in surf landing or on a river. Rolling is rolling, so to starting learning in a whiteboat boat is ok. The main thing is get the basics and then try it in as may boats as you can as they all have a different feel and tricks depending on the hull design and boat volume I was on a trip when a guy flipped as we where coming into a tight cove entrance with some rocks. It took two of us to get the guy back in his boat with a third towing aginst the tide and wind to keep from washing on the rocks. If the guy had been able to roll we I would have had a far less scary thoughts as I looked over my sholder a the white stuff breaking behind us. try the following resouces The Bombproof roll and beyond by paul dutky isbn 0-89732-085-9 The Kayak Roll by kent ford www.performancevideo.com The main thing to rember when rolling loaded sea boats is they take a lot loger to get the momentum going so you need to slow the roll down a bit when compared to a small pool practice boat. Also extend the lever by moving your grip to one end of the paddle shaft. the rest is just practice, and don't forget the nose clip!!!! I usually do a few parctice rolls on the end of each session just to keep my hand in with diferent boats. Try progresing from and eskimo or T-Rescue first, then rolloing and finally re-entry and roll or eskimo rescue. A paddle float and good pump will also come in handy while yo get the hang of it. Best of luck Gary "Moby Dick" wrote in message roups.com... Looking through the local sports magazine (Boulder, Colorado), I see lot's of "roll classes" for whitewater kayaks. Do sea kayakers need this, too. I know what rolling is -- seems to me that if a sea kayak is flipped due to a wave or something, it'd be good to know how to roll back up. Or is just getting out of the kayak sufficient? TIA- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Thanks, Monk. I did a search on Amazon. There seems to be a number of good books and DVDs. I listed the first 9 book and 2 DVD's below. 1. The Complete Book of Sea Kayaking, 5th by Derek C. Hutchinson (The one you recommended). 2. The Essential Sea Kayaker: A Complete Guide for the Open Water Paddler, Second Edition by David Seidman 3. Sea Kayaking: A Manual for Long-Distance Touring by John Dowd 4. Sea Kayaking: A Woman's Guide by Shelley Johnson 5. Fundamentals of Kayak Navigation, 3rd (Sea Kayaking How- To) by David Burch 6. Sea Kayaking Illustrated : A Visual Guide to Better Paddling by John Robison 7. Sea Kayaking The Ultimate Guide DVD (DVD - 2005) 8. Sea Kayaker's Savvy Paddler: More than 500 Tips for Better Kayaking by Doug Alderson 9. The Complete Sea Kayaker's Handbook by Shelley Johnson 10. Sea Kayaking Beyond the Basics DVD 11. Touring and Sea Kayaking: The Essential Skills and Safety by Alex Matthews and Ken Whiting PS: I agree with you on safety. Also, unless something happens, I'll be in a basic kayaking class next Tuesday and a roll class the following week. |
Roll class for sea kayakers?
"Moby Dick" wrote in
oups.com: A couple of comments on the list... Thanks, Monk. I did a search on Amazon. There seems to be a number of good books and DVDs. I listed the first 9 book and 2 DVD's below. 1. The Complete Book of Sea Kayaking, 5th by Derek C. Hutchinson (The one you recommended). 3. Sea Kayaking: A Manual for Long-Distance Touring by John Dowd The Derek Hutchinson and John Dowd books are typically on every "essential books" on Sea Kayaking I've seen. I've got a copy of both. Derek's is an easier read but there are some that consider his strong opinions a bit controversial. I personally like them man and took a class from him a long time ago and my skill level increased significantly after just a two hour class. 4. Sea Kayaking: A Woman's Guide by Shelley Johnson 5. Fundamentals of Kayak Navigation, 3rd (Sea Kayaking How- To) by David Burch Burch's book is considered the bible on kayak navigation. Many have read it several times, primarily because it's somewhat of a dry read and it takes several reads to understand it all. It's worth getting but probably not necessary for getting started. 9. The Complete Sea Kayaker's Handbook by Shelley Johnson I've seen a lot of recommendations for this book, and some rank it higher than Hutchinsons book. A few more to add to your list... Sea Kayaking: Safety & Rescue by John Lull Sea Kayak Rescue, 2nd: The Definitive Guide to Modern Reentry and Recovery Techniques (How to Paddle Series) by Roger Schumann and Jan Shriner Sea Kayaker's Deep Trouble: True Stories and Their Lessons from Sea Kayaker Magazine by Matt Broze and George Gronseth If you want to just read about a couple of kayak expeditions, I highly recommend Chris Duff's books, "One Celtic Tides" and "Southern Exposure" Something else that you may consider... When I first got started in the sport I attended a Sea Kayaking symposium in Maine (that's where I took the class from Mutchinson). There are lots of symposia that occur throughout out the country that are an excellent means to immerse your self in sea kayaking for several days. They offer training opportunities and are attended by many kayak vendors that provide a vast array of models to demo. Check the Sea Kayaker magazine web site events calendar for a good list (www.seakayakermag.com). The next good one coming up is in Charleston, SC (East Coast Canoe and Kayak Festival). PS: I agree with you on safety. Also, unless something happens, I'll be in a basic kayaking class next Tuesday and a roll class the following week. Excellent. |
Roll class for sea kayakers?
Moby Dick wrote:
Thanks, Monk. I did a search on Amazon. There seems to be a number of good books and DVDs. I listed the first 9 book and 2 DVD's below. 1. The Complete Book of Sea Kayaking, 5th by Derek C. Hutchinson (The one you recommended). A good book and a fun read, but that's typical of Derek's work. 2. The Essential Sea Kayaker: A Complete Guide for the Open Water Paddler, Second Edition by David Seidman IMO, this is the best of the beginner's books. In particular, his progressive method of teaching bracing and rolling skills works very well. 5. Fundamentals of Kayak Navigation, 3rd (Sea Kayaking How- To) by David Burch This is a must have, but it's overly long and I find it to be really tedious to read. Come to think of it, I've never made it through it completely. 6. Sea Kayaking Illustrated : A Visual Guide to Better Paddling by John Robison 7. Sea Kayaking The Ultimate Guide DVD (DVD - 2005) 8. Sea Kayaker's Savvy Paddler: More than 500 Tips for Better Kayaking by Doug Alderson There are some really good tips in this one. I agree with John's recommendation of "Sea Kayaker Deep Trouble". I consider it a must-read. Every kayak should come with a copy. Nigel Foster's DVD series is excellent. He's a great teacher and a very personable guy. PS: I agree with you on safety. Also, unless something happens, I'll be in a basic kayaking class next Tuesday and a roll class the following week. That's a very good start. It will take time and practice to build your skills, but you seem to have the proper mindset to make it happen. |
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