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A little respect for the commercial fishers
When inconvenienced by a net set, a field of pots, etc. it might be
appropriate to consider the following statistics from the FEDGOV. To bring us a fish dinner, commercial fishermen suffer a higher percentage of on the job fatalities than any other group. ********** America's Most Dangerous Jobs Laura Morsch, CareerBuilder.com writer For many of us, the most dangerous part of the workday is the commute -- followed closely by teetering on stiletto heels. Nationwide, most employees have a miniscule chance of being killed at work. There were just four fatal occupational injuries per 100,000 workers in the United States in 2005, according to preliminary data from the U.S. Department of Labor's Bureau of Labor Statistics. That, of course, is just the average. For some workers -- soldiers in combat, for example -- every day is a life-threatening one. But on the domestic front, the most dangerous jobs are less obvious. Statistically speaking, farmers -- with a fatality rate of 41.1 -- are more than twice as likely to die on the job than police officers (18.2) and nearly four times more likely to be killed at work than firefighters (11.5). The Most Life-Threatening Jobs According to BLS data, the following jobs had some of the highest fatality rates for 2005: Fishermen and related fishing workers Fatality rate (per 100,000 workers): 118.4 Average salary: $29,000 per year Logging workers Fatality rate (per 100,000 workers): 92.9 Average salary: $31,290 per year Aircraft pilots and flight engineers Fatality rate (per 100,000 workers): 66.9 Average salary: $135,040 Structural iron and steel workers Fatality rate (per 100,000 workers): 55.6 Average salary: $43,540 Refuse and recyclable material collectors Fatality rate (per 100,000 workers): 43.8 Average salary: $30,160 Farmers and ranchers Fatality rate (per 100,000 workers): 41.1 Average salary: $39,720 Electrical power-line installers and repairers Fatality rate (per 100,000 workers): 32.7 Average salary: $49,200 Truck drivers Fatality rate (per 100,000 workers): 29.1 Average salary: $35,460 (for heavy or tractor-trailer drivers) Miscellaneous agricultural workers Fatality rate (per 100,000 workers): 23.2 Average salary: $24,140 Construction laborers Fatality rate (per 100,000 workers): 22.7 Average salary: $29,050 The Most Injury-Prone Jobs Although employees are statistically unlikely to die on the job, illnesses and injuries are a far greater threat. In 2005, the rate of nonfatal injuries and illnesses was 4.6 per 100 workers. The manufacturing industry accounted for more than 20 percent of the nation's reported nonfatal occupational injuries last year, with complaints ranging from sprains to gashes. Sixteen percent of workplace injuries were reported by workers in the health care sector. The following industries saw the highest workplace injury rates for 2005: Beet sugar manufacturing: 16.6 injuries per 100 workers Truck trailer manufacturing: 15.7 injuries per 100 workers Iron foundries: 15.2 injuries per 100 workers Prefabricated wood building manufacturing: 13.9 injuries per 100 workers Framing contractors: 13.3 injuries per 100 workers Jobs That Could Make You Sick Considering the nature of their work, it's not surprising that health care workers reported 19 percent of the 242,500 new occupational illnesses in the private sector for 2005. But manufacturing workers actually get sick from work most often, accounting for 39 percent of reported injuries. The following industries had the highest reported illness rates: Light truck and utility vehicle manufacturing: 701.5 illnesses per 10,000 workers Animal slaughtering, except poultry: 478.8 illnesses per 10,000 workers Automobile manufacturing: 320.6 illnesses per 10,000 workers Cut stock, resawing lumber and planning: 276.4 illnesses per 10,000 workers Motor vehicle air-conditioning manufacturing: 235 illnesses per 10,000 workers Laura Morsch is a writer for CareerBuilder.com. She researches and writes about job search strategy, career management, hiring trends and workplace issues. Copyright 2006 CareerBuilder.com. |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
Working alone and PTO's are a dangerous combination ;-)
I wonder what the fatality rate is for solo sailers? On an aside, i think its time for me to consider future careers. Ive been unfortunate enough to work in logging, fishing, structural iron and steel, truck driving, truck building, construction and in foundries. On top of that my hobbies include motorbike racing, rock climbing and sailing. I wouldnt class myself as an adrenaline junkie, i rarely get a rush, just the pleasant focus, and a momentum to consciousness. Isolation is sometimes its own reward ;-) In my spare time Ive been a mountain and cave rescue worker for 5 years and a year in the new zealand coastguard. Now Im working in the mines here in australia, underground as a contractor and also part of the mine rescue team. Im pretty proud of the fact that i dont hane too many scars, but its probably a combination of luck and caution. a lot of guys in these industries are so called 'hard man' types who look down on anyone using eye protection, gloves etc. They increase their own risk of injury. Some of these industries are inherently high risk because of dangerous processes, like hooks whizzing past your ear on the deck of a fishing boat.... but i read a statistic recently that really disturbed me; I cant remember the exact terms and numbers used, but they said that 'not so obvious' fatalities by far outnumber the 'more obvious' types by a multiple of more than 10. While getting your leg ripped off by a PTO and bleading to death is a gruesome way to go, these are nothing compared to the number of people who quietly slip away each year due to long term exposure to chemicals, gasses, heavy metals, toxins, dust and so on. Im hoping that these statistics are represented in the mian by the older generation who worked harder rather than smarter. As for the ilness statistics.... i wouldnt pay them too much mind. Ive had quite a few of those ilnesses myself, quite often after a few too many beers, or mysteriously when the weather is right for sailing/surfing/climbing ;-) A lot of my co-workers seem to suffer the same fate; the day after pay day people are quite often feeling under the weather. Shaun |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
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A little respect for the commercial fishers
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ups.com... wrote: The fishers that are in grave danger are not the guys who drop pots in the bay or net mullet in the canal behind your house. They are the ones who drop pots in the Bering sea or fish off the Grand Banks. Indeed. In fact, if that sub group were isolated from the statistics reflecting commercial fishing in general we can be almost certain the figures would be much, much higher. Did you catch the show on Discovery Channel about crab fishermen a while back? Pretty harrowing work. |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
JoeSpareBedroom wrote: Did you catch the show on Discovery Channel about crab fishermen a while back? Pretty harrowing work. That's the nutsiest fishery ever imagined. Middle of winter, Gulf of Alaska, sea state: u-g-l-y (Makes a good case for the allocation style fishery rather than a defined season. Instead of saying, "Everybody go out and fish like mad for two weeks and keep everything you can bring aboard" the allocation system says "Vessel X is entitled to catch 12,000 pounds of Alaskan King crab within this 45-day window of time". Vessel X can stay in port a day or two if the weather is going to be lot worse than usual without missing out entirely on a big chunk of the season, and if Vessel X has poor luck she can sell some of her unused allocation to other boats that have hit the jackpot.) It seems like we lose a Seattle-based boat and crew every year or two up there. Crabbers can have a high COG, especially with all the pots on deck. Then there's the ice- a lot of times there's a crewman assigned to constantly chip the ice off the boat, and he or she has to chip it off faster than it's building up. After watching that fishing series on Discovery Channel, nobody would ever complain about the price of crab again. :-) |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
Catch your own fish. Or eat beef. Commercial guys rape the waters.
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... When inconvenienced by a net set, a field of pots, etc. it might be appropriate to consider the following statistics from the FEDGOV. To bring us a fish dinner, commercial fishermen suffer a higher percentage of on the job fatalities than any other group. ********** America's Most Dangerous Jobs Laura Morsch, CareerBuilder.com writer For many of us, the most dangerous part of the workday is the commute -- followed closely by teetering on stiletto heels. Nationwide, most employees have a miniscule chance of being killed at work. There were just four fatal occupational injuries per 100,000 workers in the United States in 2005, according to preliminary data from the U.S. Department of Labor's Bureau of Labor Statistics. That, of course, is just the average. For some workers -- soldiers in combat, for example -- every day is a life-threatening one. But on the domestic front, the most dangerous jobs are less obvious. Statistically speaking, farmers -- with a fatality rate of 41.1 -- are more than twice as likely to die on the job than police officers (18.2) and nearly four times more likely to be killed at work than firefighters (11.5). The Most Life-Threatening Jobs According to BLS data, the following jobs had some of the highest fatality rates for 2005: Fishermen and related fishing workers Fatality rate (per 100,000 workers): 118.4 Average salary: $29,000 per year Logging workers Fatality rate (per 100,000 workers): 92.9 Average salary: $31,290 per year Aircraft pilots and flight engineers Fatality rate (per 100,000 workers): 66.9 Average salary: $135,040 Structural iron and steel workers Fatality rate (per 100,000 workers): 55.6 Average salary: $43,540 Refuse and recyclable material collectors Fatality rate (per 100,000 workers): 43.8 Average salary: $30,160 Farmers and ranchers Fatality rate (per 100,000 workers): 41.1 Average salary: $39,720 Electrical power-line installers and repairers Fatality rate (per 100,000 workers): 32.7 Average salary: $49,200 Truck drivers Fatality rate (per 100,000 workers): 29.1 Average salary: $35,460 (for heavy or tractor-trailer drivers) Miscellaneous agricultural workers Fatality rate (per 100,000 workers): 23.2 Average salary: $24,140 Construction laborers Fatality rate (per 100,000 workers): 22.7 Average salary: $29,050 The Most Injury-Prone Jobs Although employees are statistically unlikely to die on the job, illnesses and injuries are a far greater threat. In 2005, the rate of nonfatal injuries and illnesses was 4.6 per 100 workers. The manufacturing industry accounted for more than 20 percent of the nation's reported nonfatal occupational injuries last year, with complaints ranging from sprains to gashes. Sixteen percent of workplace injuries were reported by workers in the health care sector. The following industries saw the highest workplace injury rates for 2005: Beet sugar manufacturing: 16.6 injuries per 100 workers Truck trailer manufacturing: 15.7 injuries per 100 workers Iron foundries: 15.2 injuries per 100 workers Prefabricated wood building manufacturing: 13.9 injuries per 100 workers Framing contractors: 13.3 injuries per 100 workers Jobs That Could Make You Sick Considering the nature of their work, it's not surprising that health care workers reported 19 percent of the 242,500 new occupational illnesses in the private sector for 2005. But manufacturing workers actually get sick from work most often, accounting for 39 percent of reported injuries. The following industries had the highest reported illness rates: Light truck and utility vehicle manufacturing: 701.5 illnesses per 10,000 workers Animal slaughtering, except poultry: 478.8 illnesses per 10,000 workers Automobile manufacturing: 320.6 illnesses per 10,000 workers Cut stock, resawing lumber and planning: 276.4 illnesses per 10,000 workers Motor vehicle air-conditioning manufacturing: 235 illnesses per 10,000 workers Laura Morsch is a writer for CareerBuilder.com. She researches and writes about job search strategy, career management, hiring trends and workplace issues. Copyright 2006 CareerBuilder.com. |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... When inconvenienced by a net set, a field of pots, etc. it might be appropriate to consider the following statistics from the FEDGOV. To bring us a fish dinner, commercial fishermen suffer a higher percentage of on the job fatalities than any other group. ********** America's Most Dangerous Jobs Laura Morsch, CareerBuilder.com writer For many of us, the most dangerous part of the workday is the commute -- followed closely by teetering on stiletto heels. Nationwide, most employees have a miniscule chance of being killed at work. There were just four fatal occupational injuries per 100,000 workers in the United States in 2005, according to preliminary data from the U.S. Department of Labor's Bureau of Labor Statistics. That, of course, is just the average. For some workers -- soldiers in combat, for example -- every day is a life-threatening one. But on the domestic front, the most dangerous jobs are less obvious. Presidents: 8 died while in office...4 from natural causes and 4 by assassination. If you just use the number who have been assassinated, that's 4 out of 43...for a mortality rate of 9,302 (per 100,000 workers). Average salary: $400,000. At least it pays well. |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 20:28:38 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:
Presidents: 8 died while in office...4 from natural causes and 4 by assassination. If you just use the number who have been assassinated, that's 4 out of 43...for a mortality rate of 9,302 (per 100,000 workers). Average salary: $400,000. At least it pays well. Space shuttle crew should be high on the list as well. --Vic |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
"NOYB" wrote in message link.net... Catch your own fish. Or eat beef. Commercial guys rape the waters. I agree. |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
NOYB wrote: Catch your own fish. Or eat beef. Commercial guys rape the waters. Hmm. So unless a person is wealthy enough to have an offshore fishing boat similar to something that might be owned by a dentist down in Naples, FL and the luxury of enough time to use it, he or she should not be able to eat fish? Is Mrs. NOYB's name Marie ("let them eat cake") Antoinette? :-) Consider this: There would be a lot less infrastructure to support sport fisheries if the same infrastructure couldn't be at least partially justified as a support for commerce. Commercial and sports fisheries, properly managed with an eye toward conservation in a perfect world, should be able to coexist. |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
JimH wrote: "NOYB" wrote in message link.net... Catch your own fish. Or eat beef. Commercial guys rape the waters. I agree. Jim, can I then assume you don't eat any seafood that doesn't come out of Lake Michigan? On the end of your personal fishing line? No Alaska King Crab, Louisiana shrimp, or even tuna fish for you. :-) Bummer. |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com... NOYB wrote: Catch your own fish. Or eat beef. Commercial guys rape the waters. Hmm. So unless a person is wealthy enough to have an offshore fishing boat similar to something that might be owned by a dentist down in Naples, FL and the luxury of enough time to use it, he or she should not be able to eat fish? Is Mrs. NOYB's name Marie ("let them eat cake") Antoinette? :-) Consider this: There would be a lot less infrastructure to support sport fisheries if the same infrastructure couldn't be at least partially justified as a support for commerce. Commercial and sports fisheries, properly managed with an eye toward conservation in a perfect world, should be able to coexist. It's there, or close, in some places. Read "The Secret Life of Lobsters", in which officials from the state of Maine, who've never fished for lobsters attempt to tell lobstermen about conservation, and end up learning that the lobstermen already had a pretty good system in place to begin with. Now, they cooperate instead of argue. |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... JimH wrote: "NOYB" wrote in message link.net... Catch your own fish. Or eat beef. Commercial guys rape the waters. I agree. Jim, can I then assume you don't eat any seafood that doesn't come out of Lake Michigan? On the end of your personal fishing line? No Alaska King Crab, Louisiana shrimp, or even tuna fish for you. :-) Bummer. NP Chuck. I boat and fish on Lake Erie, not Lake Michigan. Just because I eat fish does not mean the commercial fishermen are not raping the waters. They sure are on Lake Erie. |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
JimH wrote: "Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... JimH wrote: "NOYB" wrote in message link.net... Catch your own fish. Or eat beef. Commercial guys rape the waters. I agree. Jim, can I then assume you don't eat any seafood that doesn't come out of Lake Michigan? On the end of your personal fishing line? No Alaska King Crab, Louisiana shrimp, or even tuna fish for you. :-) Bummer. NP Chuck. I boat and fish on Lake Erie, not Lake Michigan. Just because I eat fish does not mean the commercial fishermen are not raping the waters. They sure are on Lake Erie. Lake Erie. duh, of course. Zero points to Gould for geography. So you agree with NOYB that commerical fishermen are raping the waters, but disagree with NOYB that everybody should catch his or her own fish. Thanks for the clarification. Hope your recovery is progressing. |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
"JimH" wrote in message
... "Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... JimH wrote: "NOYB" wrote in message link.net... Catch your own fish. Or eat beef. Commercial guys rape the waters. I agree. Jim, can I then assume you don't eat any seafood that doesn't come out of Lake Michigan? On the end of your personal fishing line? No Alaska King Crab, Louisiana shrimp, or even tuna fish for you. :-) Bummer. NP Chuck. I boat and fish on Lake Erie, not Lake Michigan. Just because I eat fish does not mean the commercial fishermen are not raping the waters. They sure are on Lake Erie. What do commercial fishermen catch on Lake Erie? |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... JimH wrote: "Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... JimH wrote: "NOYB" wrote in message link.net... Catch your own fish. Or eat beef. Commercial guys rape the waters. I agree. Jim, can I then assume you don't eat any seafood that doesn't come out of Lake Michigan? On the end of your personal fishing line? No Alaska King Crab, Louisiana shrimp, or even tuna fish for you. :-) Bummer. NP Chuck. I boat and fish on Lake Erie, not Lake Michigan. Just because I eat fish does not mean the commercial fishermen are not raping the waters. They sure are on Lake Erie. Lake Erie. duh, of course. Zero points to Gould for geography. So you agree with NOYB that commerical fishermen are raping the waters, but disagree with NOYB that everybody should catch his or her own fish. Yes. Hope your recovery is progressing. Thanks. |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
NOYB wrote: "Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... When inconvenienced by a net set, a field of pots, etc. it might be appropriate to consider the following statistics from the FEDGOV. To bring us a fish dinner, commercial fishermen suffer a higher percentage of on the job fatalities than any other group. ********** America's Most Dangerous Jobs Laura Morsch, CareerBuilder.com writer For many of us, the most dangerous part of the workday is the commute -- followed closely by teetering on stiletto heels. Nationwide, most employees have a miniscule chance of being killed at work. There were just four fatal occupational injuries per 100,000 workers in the United States in 2005, according to preliminary data from the U.S. Department of Labor's Bureau of Labor Statistics. That, of course, is just the average. For some workers -- soldiers in combat, for example -- every day is a life-threatening one. But on the domestic front, the most dangerous jobs are less obvious. Presidents: 8 died while in office...4 from natural causes and 4 by assassination. If you just use the number who have been assassinated, that's 4 out of 43...for a mortality rate of 9,302 (per 100,000 workers). Average salary: $400,000. At least it pays well. I'm surprised you missed the obvious factor in the equation. The occupational loss of life for the other occupations are on an annual basis. Regardless of the indivdual holding the office at any given time, I think most Americans are very thankful that the typical annual mortality for POTUS is *zero*. Funny how inflation changes things. An experienced french fry jockey, aka "assistant manager" at the local fast food joint now makes as many $$ per year as Abe Lincoln made as President. (Presidential salary was $25,000). Most white collar middle managers now outearn JFK's presidential salary, ($100,000, plus a $50,000 expense account which Kennedy refused to accept). It's doubtful the either the french fryer or the second tier accountant would think they make enough money to risk getting shot on the job. :-) |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... JimH wrote: "Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... JimH wrote: "NOYB" wrote in message link.net... Catch your own fish. Or eat beef. Commercial guys rape the waters. I agree. Jim, can I then assume you don't eat any seafood that doesn't come out of Lake Michigan? On the end of your personal fishing line? No Alaska King Crab, Louisiana shrimp, or even tuna fish for you. :-) Bummer. NP Chuck. I boat and fish on Lake Erie, not Lake Michigan. Just because I eat fish does not mean the commercial fishermen are not raping the waters. They sure are on Lake Erie. Lake Erie. duh, of course. Zero points to Gould for geography. So you agree with NOYB that commerical fishermen are raping the waters, but disagree with NOYB that everybody should catch his or her own fish. Thanks for the clarification. I don't think that everybody whould catch his/her own fish. But curbs need to be imposed on commercial fishing. The commercial guys take 89% of the grouper out of the Gulf...yet they keep reducing the limits for recreational anglers. That makes no sense. |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "JimH" wrote in message ... "Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... JimH wrote: "NOYB" wrote in message link.net... Catch your own fish. Or eat beef. Commercial guys rape the waters. I agree. Jim, can I then assume you don't eat any seafood that doesn't come out of Lake Michigan? On the end of your personal fishing line? No Alaska King Crab, Louisiana shrimp, or even tuna fish for you. :-) Bummer. NP Chuck. I boat and fish on Lake Erie, not Lake Michigan. Just because I eat fish does not mean the commercial fishermen are not raping the waters. They sure are on Lake Erie. What do commercial fishermen catch on Lake Erie? Mercury-laden fish. |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net... "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "JimH" wrote in message ... "Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... JimH wrote: "NOYB" wrote in message link.net... Catch your own fish. Or eat beef. Commercial guys rape the waters. I agree. Jim, can I then assume you don't eat any seafood that doesn't come out of Lake Michigan? On the end of your personal fishing line? No Alaska King Crab, Louisiana shrimp, or even tuna fish for you. :-) Bummer. NP Chuck. I boat and fish on Lake Erie, not Lake Michigan. Just because I eat fish does not mean the commercial fishermen are not raping the waters. They sure are on Lake Erie. What do commercial fishermen catch on Lake Erie? Mercury-laden fish. Speaking of mercury exposure.....nice to hear from you again. |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net... "Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... JimH wrote: "Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... JimH wrote: "NOYB" wrote in message link.net... Catch your own fish. Or eat beef. Commercial guys rape the waters. I agree. Jim, can I then assume you don't eat any seafood that doesn't come out of Lake Michigan? On the end of your personal fishing line? No Alaska King Crab, Louisiana shrimp, or even tuna fish for you. :-) Bummer. NP Chuck. I boat and fish on Lake Erie, not Lake Michigan. Just because I eat fish does not mean the commercial fishermen are not raping the waters. They sure are on Lake Erie. Lake Erie. duh, of course. Zero points to Gould for geography. So you agree with NOYB that commerical fishermen are raping the waters, but disagree with NOYB that everybody should catch his or her own fish. Thanks for the clarification. I don't think that everybody whould catch his/her own fish. But curbs need to be imposed on commercial fishing. The commercial guys take 89% of the grouper out of the Gulf...yet they keep reducing the limits for recreational anglers. That makes no sense. How about yelling at your elected chumps to stop issuing commercial licenses NOW, so as the fisherman die or retire, there will be less commercial pressure? I think I read about that already being done elsewhere. |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... NOYB wrote: Catch your own fish. Or eat beef. Commercial guys rape the waters. Hmm. So unless a person is wealthy enough to have an offshore fishing boat similar to something that might be owned by a dentist down in Naples, FL and the luxury of enough time to use it, he or she should not be able to eat fish? Is Mrs. NOYB's name Marie ("let them eat cake") Antoinette? :-) Consider this: There would be a lot less infrastructure to support sport fisheries if the same infrastructure couldn't be at least partially justified as a support for commerce. ??? Can you cite an example? I can't really think what type of infrastructure might help both commercial and recreational anglers. The artificial reef programs are not supported by the commercial fishing industry. For the most part, the commercial fishing industry (down here anyhow) is mostly a parasite on the resources without contributing anything of value back to the economy. Meanwhile, the recreational anglers created and now support an entire billiond-dollar industry...namely tackle shops, boat dealers, marinas, boat mechanics, etc. |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... NOYB wrote: "Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... When inconvenienced by a net set, a field of pots, etc. it might be appropriate to consider the following statistics from the FEDGOV. To bring us a fish dinner, commercial fishermen suffer a higher percentage of on the job fatalities than any other group. ********** America's Most Dangerous Jobs Laura Morsch, CareerBuilder.com writer For many of us, the most dangerous part of the workday is the commute -- followed closely by teetering on stiletto heels. Nationwide, most employees have a miniscule chance of being killed at work. There were just four fatal occupational injuries per 100,000 workers in the United States in 2005, according to preliminary data from the U.S. Department of Labor's Bureau of Labor Statistics. That, of course, is just the average. For some workers -- soldiers in combat, for example -- every day is a life-threatening one. But on the domestic front, the most dangerous jobs are less obvious. Presidents: 8 died while in office...4 from natural causes and 4 by assassination. If you just use the number who have been assassinated, that's 4 out of 43...for a mortality rate of 9,302 (per 100,000 workers). Average salary: $400,000. At least it pays well. I'm surprised you missed the obvious factor in the equation. The occupational loss of life for the other occupations are on an annual basis. Regardless of the indivdual holding the office at any given time, I think most Americans are very thankful that the typical annual mortality for POTUS is *zero*. Funny how inflation changes things. An experienced french fry jockey, aka "assistant manager" at the local fast food joint now makes as many $$ per year as Abe Lincoln made as President. (Presidential salary was $25,000). Most white collar middle managers now outearn JFK's presidential salary, ($100,000, plus a $50,000 expense account which Kennedy refused to accept). It's doubtful the either the french fryer or the second tier accountant would think they make enough money to risk getting shot on the job. :-) I'd find it hard to believe that there's a more difficult, or more dangerous job than being President of the United States. |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "NOYB" wrote in message ink.net... "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "JimH" wrote in message ... "Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... JimH wrote: "NOYB" wrote in message link.net... Catch your own fish. Or eat beef. Commercial guys rape the waters. I agree. Jim, can I then assume you don't eat any seafood that doesn't come out of Lake Michigan? On the end of your personal fishing line? No Alaska King Crab, Louisiana shrimp, or even tuna fish for you. :-) Bummer. NP Chuck. I boat and fish on Lake Erie, not Lake Michigan. Just because I eat fish does not mean the commercial fishermen are not raping the waters. They sure are on Lake Erie. What do commercial fishermen catch on Lake Erie? Mercury-laden fish. Speaking of mercury exposure.....nice to hear from you again. I'm doing my darn'dest to rid the world of mercury...one tooth at a time. It's composite resin or porcelain crowns only for me. |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
"NOYB" wrote in message
hlink.net... "Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... NOYB wrote: "Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... When inconvenienced by a net set, a field of pots, etc. it might be appropriate to consider the following statistics from the FEDGOV. To bring us a fish dinner, commercial fishermen suffer a higher percentage of on the job fatalities than any other group. ********** America's Most Dangerous Jobs Laura Morsch, CareerBuilder.com writer For many of us, the most dangerous part of the workday is the commute -- followed closely by teetering on stiletto heels. Nationwide, most employees have a miniscule chance of being killed at work. There were just four fatal occupational injuries per 100,000 workers in the United States in 2005, according to preliminary data from the U.S. Department of Labor's Bureau of Labor Statistics. That, of course, is just the average. For some workers -- soldiers in combat, for example -- every day is a life-threatening one. But on the domestic front, the most dangerous jobs are less obvious. Presidents: 8 died while in office...4 from natural causes and 4 by assassination. If you just use the number who have been assassinated, that's 4 out of 43...for a mortality rate of 9,302 (per 100,000 workers). Average salary: $400,000. At least it pays well. I'm surprised you missed the obvious factor in the equation. The occupational loss of life for the other occupations are on an annual basis. Regardless of the indivdual holding the office at any given time, I think most Americans are very thankful that the typical annual mortality for POTUS is *zero*. Funny how inflation changes things. An experienced french fry jockey, aka "assistant manager" at the local fast food joint now makes as many $$ per year as Abe Lincoln made as President. (Presidential salary was $25,000). Most white collar middle managers now outearn JFK's presidential salary, ($100,000, plus a $50,000 expense account which Kennedy refused to accept). It's doubtful the either the french fryer or the second tier accountant would think they make enough money to risk getting shot on the job. :-) I'd find it hard to believe that there's a more difficult, or more dangerous job than being President of the United States. No you don't. You're just looking for an absurd debate. That, and you failed statistics. |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "NOYB" wrote in message link.net... "Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... JimH wrote: "Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... JimH wrote: "NOYB" wrote in message link.net... Catch your own fish. Or eat beef. Commercial guys rape the waters. I agree. Jim, can I then assume you don't eat any seafood that doesn't come out of Lake Michigan? On the end of your personal fishing line? No Alaska King Crab, Louisiana shrimp, or even tuna fish for you. :-) Bummer. NP Chuck. I boat and fish on Lake Erie, not Lake Michigan. Just because I eat fish does not mean the commercial fishermen are not raping the waters. They sure are on Lake Erie. Lake Erie. duh, of course. Zero points to Gould for geography. So you agree with NOYB that commerical fishermen are raping the waters, but disagree with NOYB that everybody should catch his or her own fish. Thanks for the clarification. I don't think that everybody whould catch his/her own fish. But curbs need to be imposed on commercial fishing. The commercial guys take 89% of the grouper out of the Gulf...yet they keep reducing the limits for recreational anglers. That makes no sense. How about yelling at your elected chumps to stop issuing commercial licenses NOW, so as the fisherman die or retire, there will be less commercial pressure? I think I read about that already being done elsewhere. The problem is that the commercials managed to get their very own Manchurian Candidate on the NMFS council. Dr. Roy Crabtree is the NOAA Fisheries Service's Southeast Regional Administrator. He's also a shill for the commercial fisherman, and has opposed every suggestion to buy out the commercial licenses as they expire. |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
"NOYB" wrote in message
hlink.net... "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "NOYB" wrote in message link.net... "Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... JimH wrote: "Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... JimH wrote: "NOYB" wrote in message link.net... Catch your own fish. Or eat beef. Commercial guys rape the waters. I agree. Jim, can I then assume you don't eat any seafood that doesn't come out of Lake Michigan? On the end of your personal fishing line? No Alaska King Crab, Louisiana shrimp, or even tuna fish for you. :-) Bummer. NP Chuck. I boat and fish on Lake Erie, not Lake Michigan. Just because I eat fish does not mean the commercial fishermen are not raping the waters. They sure are on Lake Erie. Lake Erie. duh, of course. Zero points to Gould for geography. So you agree with NOYB that commerical fishermen are raping the waters, but disagree with NOYB that everybody should catch his or her own fish. Thanks for the clarification. I don't think that everybody whould catch his/her own fish. But curbs need to be imposed on commercial fishing. The commercial guys take 89% of the grouper out of the Gulf...yet they keep reducing the limits for recreational anglers. That makes no sense. How about yelling at your elected chumps to stop issuing commercial licenses NOW, so as the fisherman die or retire, there will be less commercial pressure? I think I read about that already being done elsewhere. The problem is that the commercials managed to get their very own Manchurian Candidate on the NMFS council. Dr. Roy Crabtree is the NOAA Fisheries Service's Southeast Regional Administrator. He's also a shill for the commercial fisherman, and has opposed every suggestion to buy out the commercial licenses as they expire. You have time and money. Instead of complaining here, how about walking around the marina with a petition, and sending it to your governor? Then, follow up with phonecalls until his office gives you an appointment. Hell...my son and his friends got a defective math teacher repaired in 9th grade using a petition. You should be able to do it. Ask the local newspaper for help. They're always looking for stories, especially in backwaters like Rat Mouth. |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 21:55:07 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote: On 22 Jan 2007 13:36:45 -0800, "Chuck Gould" wrote: NOYB wrote: Catch your own fish. Or eat beef. Commercial guys rape the waters. Hmm. So unless a person is wealthy enough to have an offshore fishing boat similar to something that might be owned by a dentist down in Naples, FL and the luxury of enough time to use it, he or she should not be able to eat fish? Is Mrs. NOYB's name Marie ("let them eat cake") Antoinette? :-) Consider this: There would be a lot less infrastructure to support sport fisheries if the same infrastructure couldn't be at least partially justified as a support for commerce. Commercial and sports fisheries, properly managed with an eye toward conservation in a perfect world, should be able to coexist. The problem is that the commercial's don't want to coexist - they want it all. And they want it now. In the NE, the recreationals are constantly being hammered by the commercials to the point where recreational quotas are consistently reduced to maintain the commercial side of any fishery. Seasons are reduced on the whim of the commercials if their tonnage in any given fishery is down, size and quotas changed every year on recreationals without commercial penalty for being over tonnage, the by catch situation is getting more and more serious with virtual destruction of the eco system - in particular Narragansett Bay where you can't find bunker in the summer. I'll give you a good example of the rape and pillage. ARC Bait out of New Jersey comes into Narragansett Bay every Spring on a permit from the RI DEM using spotter planes to "fish" for bunker - menhaden. Guess what they do with the menhaden? Sell them back to the recreational fisherman. You can't find menhaden in Narragansett Bay after ARC Bait finishes and the net result is that there is less forage resulting in fewer quality fish for recreation. You can't stop them because they have a commercial permit to catch as much as they can in a one week period - curiously enough, right in the middle of the major migration period. It's their "right". Last year they were caught over quota - $1,000 fine. Big whoop. Oh, and don't ask the various Eco cops to actually enforce by-catch laws or enforce quota rules - heaven's to Betsy, we don't have the man power to do that. Instead, let's measure the fish the recreationals catch at the boat ramps instead - and fine them - oh, $1,000 or so a fish if it's 1/16th inch under. I don't want to hear about commercials. The same is being done to the bunker in the Chesapeake, except that the commercials are using them for fertilizer and fish oil. The effect on the bay is tremendous. -- ***** Have a super day! ***** John H |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
"NOYB" wrote in message ink.net... "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "JimH" wrote in message ... "Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... JimH wrote: "NOYB" wrote in message link.net... Catch your own fish. Or eat beef. Commercial guys rape the waters. I agree. Jim, can I then assume you don't eat any seafood that doesn't come out of Lake Michigan? On the end of your personal fishing line? No Alaska King Crab, Louisiana shrimp, or even tuna fish for you. :-) Bummer. NP Chuck. I boat and fish on Lake Erie, not Lake Michigan. Just because I eat fish does not mean the commercial fishermen are not raping the waters. They sure are on Lake Erie. What do commercial fishermen catch on Lake Erie? Mercury-laden fish. Perhaps they were some 30 to 40 years ago. ;-) They primarily net yellow perch and walleye. |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
NOYB wrote: I don't think that everybody whould catch his/her own fish. But curbs need to be imposed on commercial fishing. The commercial guys take 89% of the grouper out of the Gulf...yet they keep reducing the limits for recreational anglers. That makes no sense. I would agree that the two facts you present don't seem to make sense when isolated. The missing brick in the logic wall would have to be, "What has happened to the commercial fish limit?" Is it the same as ever, is it increasing while the recreational fishermen are being cut back, or are the commercial fishermen experiencing a reduced limit along with the recreationals? I certainly don't know the answer, but it could be that a scarce resource is still being distributed about like it always has been. |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
Chuck Gould wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom wrote: Did you catch the show on Discovery Channel about crab fishermen a while back? Pretty harrowing work. That's the nutsiest fishery ever imagined. Middle of winter, Gulf of Alaska, sea state: u-g-l-y (Makes a good case for the allocation style fishery rather than a defined season. Instead of saying, "Everybody go out and fish like mad for two weeks and keep everything you can bring aboard" the allocation system says "Vessel X is entitled to catch 12,000 pounds of Alaskan King crab within this 45-day window of time". Vessel X can stay in port a day or two if the weather is going to be lot worse than usual without missing out entirely on a big chunk of the season, and if Vessel X has poor luck she can sell some of her unused allocation to other boats that have hit the jackpot.) It seems like we lose a Seattle-based boat and crew every year or two up there. Crabbers can have a high COG, especially with all the pots on deck. Then there's the ice- a lot of times there's a crewman assigned to constantly chip the ice off the boat, and he or she has to chip it off faster than it's building up. After watching that fishing series on Discovery Channel, nobody would ever complain about the price of crab again. :-) Back in the early 80's (83 me thinks) I worked as a waiter at a BBQ place on Lake of the Ozarks for a summer. There was this gal who worked on a crab boat out of Alaska that was just a couple years older them me. She was the only persons to survive a crab boat sinking. She told us about it and it was amazing she survived at all. She told us the boat was getting rocked pretty hard when a crab pot crushed someone. A fellow crew member at one point threw her overboard. She said she recalled seeing the boat roll shortly after that and could still see the skipper in the wheel hours trying to keep it from turning over. After being in the water a short time she said she was stating to blackout and could hear voices but could not longer see anything. The next thing she knew she was on a helicopter and was being put in water that felt like fire, but was apparently icewater that was much warmer then the sea she can out of. Her skin had a very pale tone to it, I have no idea if it was from that or not. But I always suspected it was. Capt Jack R.. |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "NOYB" wrote in message hlink.net... "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "NOYB" wrote in message link.net... "Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... JimH wrote: "Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... JimH wrote: "NOYB" wrote in message link.net... Catch your own fish. Or eat beef. Commercial guys rape the waters. I agree. Jim, can I then assume you don't eat any seafood that doesn't come out of Lake Michigan? On the end of your personal fishing line? No Alaska King Crab, Louisiana shrimp, or even tuna fish for you. :-) Bummer. NP Chuck. I boat and fish on Lake Erie, not Lake Michigan. Just because I eat fish does not mean the commercial fishermen are not raping the waters. They sure are on Lake Erie. Lake Erie. duh, of course. Zero points to Gould for geography. So you agree with NOYB that commerical fishermen are raping the waters, but disagree with NOYB that everybody should catch his or her own fish. Thanks for the clarification. I don't think that everybody whould catch his/her own fish. But curbs need to be imposed on commercial fishing. The commercial guys take 89% of the grouper out of the Gulf...yet they keep reducing the limits for recreational anglers. That makes no sense. How about yelling at your elected chumps to stop issuing commercial licenses NOW, so as the fisherman die or retire, there will be less commercial pressure? I think I read about that already being done elsewhere. The problem is that the commercials managed to get their very own Manchurian Candidate on the NMFS council. Dr. Roy Crabtree is the NOAA Fisheries Service's Southeast Regional Administrator. He's also a shill for the commercial fisherman, and has opposed every suggestion to buy out the commercial licenses as they expire. You have time and money. Instead of complaining here, how about walking around the marina with a petition, and sending it to your governor? Then, follow up with phonecalls until his office gives you an appointment. What is the governor going to do about a rogue NOAA director? Commercial licenses are Federal permits. It's not a state issue. |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net... "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "NOYB" wrote in message hlink.net... "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "NOYB" wrote in message link.net... "Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... JimH wrote: "Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... JimH wrote: "NOYB" wrote in message link.net... Catch your own fish. Or eat beef. Commercial guys rape the waters. I agree. Jim, can I then assume you don't eat any seafood that doesn't come out of Lake Michigan? On the end of your personal fishing line? No Alaska King Crab, Louisiana shrimp, or even tuna fish for you. :-) Bummer. NP Chuck. I boat and fish on Lake Erie, not Lake Michigan. Just because I eat fish does not mean the commercial fishermen are not raping the waters. They sure are on Lake Erie. Lake Erie. duh, of course. Zero points to Gould for geography. So you agree with NOYB that commerical fishermen are raping the waters, but disagree with NOYB that everybody should catch his or her own fish. Thanks for the clarification. I don't think that everybody whould catch his/her own fish. But curbs need to be imposed on commercial fishing. The commercial guys take 89% of the grouper out of the Gulf...yet they keep reducing the limits for recreational anglers. That makes no sense. How about yelling at your elected chumps to stop issuing commercial licenses NOW, so as the fisherman die or retire, there will be less commercial pressure? I think I read about that already being done elsewhere. The problem is that the commercials managed to get their very own Manchurian Candidate on the NMFS council. Dr. Roy Crabtree is the NOAA Fisheries Service's Southeast Regional Administrator. He's also a shill for the commercial fisherman, and has opposed every suggestion to buy out the commercial licenses as they expire. You have time and money. Instead of complaining here, how about walking around the marina with a petition, and sending it to your governor? Then, follow up with phonecalls until his office gives you an appointment. What is the governor going to do about a rogue NOAA director? Commercial licenses are Federal permits. It's not a state issue. Not yet. But, I guess you're right. You should do nothing but complain about it here, where nobody from any governmental agency will ever see it. This way, your expenditure of time is minimal and you can get back to your next martini, and leave the hard work of being a real citizen up to somebody else. Or, to nobody. Traitor. |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 22:51:01 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:
Can you cite an example? I can't really think what type of infrastructure might help both commercial and recreational anglers. I think that the buoy system and navaids in general might be a good example, not to mention breakwater maintenance and harbor dredging. If not for commercial interests of one type or another, there would be little support for spending on these activities. |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 22:55:29 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:
I'm doing my darn'dest to rid the world of mercury...one tooth at a time. It's composite resin or porcelain crowns only for me. No gold? My gold crowns have proven to be extremely durable and no mercury is involved as far as I know. |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
"NOYB" wrote in message link.net... "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "NOYB" wrote in message hlink.net... "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "NOYB" wrote in message link.net... "Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... JimH wrote: "Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... JimH wrote: "NOYB" wrote in message link.net... Catch your own fish. Or eat beef. Commercial guys rape the waters. I agree. Jim, can I then assume you don't eat any seafood that doesn't come out of Lake Michigan? On the end of your personal fishing line? No Alaska King Crab, Louisiana shrimp, or even tuna fish for you. :-) Bummer. NP Chuck. I boat and fish on Lake Erie, not Lake Michigan. Just because I eat fish does not mean the commercial fishermen are not raping the waters. They sure are on Lake Erie. Lake Erie. duh, of course. Zero points to Gould for geography. So you agree with NOYB that commerical fishermen are raping the waters, but disagree with NOYB that everybody should catch his or her own fish. Thanks for the clarification. I don't think that everybody whould catch his/her own fish. But curbs need to be imposed on commercial fishing. The commercial guys take 89% of the grouper out of the Gulf...yet they keep reducing the limits for recreational anglers. That makes no sense. How about yelling at your elected chumps to stop issuing commercial licenses NOW, so as the fisherman die or retire, there will be less commercial pressure? I think I read about that already being done elsewhere. The problem is that the commercials managed to get their very own Manchurian Candidate on the NMFS council. Dr. Roy Crabtree is the NOAA Fisheries Service's Southeast Regional Administrator. He's also a shill for the commercial fisherman, and has opposed every suggestion to buy out the commercial licenses as they expire. You have time and money. Instead of complaining here, how about walking around the marina with a petition, and sending it to your governor? Then, follow up with phonecalls until his office gives you an appointment. What is the governor going to do about a rogue NOAA director? Commercial licenses are Federal permits. It's not a state issue. And you have state people that sit in the Federal Congress and Senate. |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... NOYB wrote: I don't think that everybody whould catch his/her own fish. But curbs need to be imposed on commercial fishing. The commercial guys take 89% of the grouper out of the Gulf...yet they keep reducing the limits for recreational anglers. That makes no sense. I would agree that the two facts you present don't seem to make sense when isolated. The missing brick in the logic wall would have to be, "What has happened to the commercial fish limit?" Is it the same as ever, is it increasing while the recreational fishermen are being cut back, or are the commercial fishermen experiencing a reduced limit along with the recreationals? I certainly don't know the answer, but it could be that a scarce resource is still being distributed about like it always has been. Major problem is bycatch. Depending on the fishing method, here can be huge amounts of bycatch. Very valuable fish, but since the season is closed on them or the allotment for the dragger is already met, they are shoveled overboard. There is always a 5 mile line of birds feeding behind a drag boat. The jig boats or hook and line guys are not raping the resource, most are starving, except for stick fisherman (a live fish for the Asian market trade) which can rape the resource also. The rapists are the big net boats. We have whole schools of tuna wrapped by a net boat or two. Zero escape to propagate the species. Off Tijuana, MX they have 100s of pens where they raise the smaller tuna that have been netted and feed copious amounts of bait fish. The bait fish overfishing is probably even more harmful. There is a lot of herring netted in the SF bay for the roe. The rest is used as fish meal fertilizer. The catch was dropping off, so the netters have asked for a smaller net opening size. Now you are going to catch all the spawners, just not the large herring. If I can get the link to work, I will post it to a writeup from a friend who used to be on the PFMC. |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
"NOYB" wrote in message link.net... Catch your own fish. Or eat beef. Commercial guys rape the waters. raise your own livestock; commercial farmers rape the land ;-) Shaun |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
"Shaun Van Poecke" wrote in message
... "NOYB" wrote in message link.net... Catch your own fish. Or eat beef. Commercial guys rape the waters. raise your own livestock; commercial farmers rape the land ;-) Shaun Yeah. Farmers, too. |
A little respect for the commercial fishers
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... NOYB wrote: I don't think that everybody whould catch his/her own fish. But curbs need to be imposed on commercial fishing. The commercial guys take 89% of the grouper out of the Gulf...yet they keep reducing the limits for recreational anglers. That makes no sense. I would agree that the two facts you present don't seem to make sense when isolated. The missing brick in the logic wall would have to be, "What has happened to the commercial fish limit?" Is it the same as ever, is it increasing while the recreational fishermen are being cut back, or are the commercial fishermen experiencing a reduced limit along with the recreationals? I certainly don't know the answer, but it could be that a scarce resource is still being distributed about like it always has been. The recreational limits were set using suspect data. They polled people at boat ramps for the first half of 2004, and then extrapolated for the rest of the year. We had three hurricanes practically back-to-back-to-back right after the surveys were completed, and nobody went fishing for those three months. The data is wrong for 2004. Additionally, the commercials kill about 80% of their by-catch. Recreational kills about 20%. The quotas don't account for that either. Most of the depletion is due to the by-catch...not the actual take. |
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