"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
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"NOYB" wrote in message
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"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
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"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
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"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
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JimH wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
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JimH wrote:
"NOYB" wrote in message
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Catch your own fish. Or eat beef. Commercial guys rape the
waters.



I agree.

Jim, can I then assume you don't eat any seafood that doesn't
come out
of Lake Michigan?
On the end of your personal fishing line?

No Alaska King Crab, Louisiana shrimp, or even tuna fish for you.
:-)
Bummer.


NP Chuck. I boat and fish on Lake Erie, not Lake Michigan.

Just because I eat fish does not mean the commercial fishermen are
not
raping the waters. They sure are on Lake Erie.

Lake Erie. duh, of course. Zero points to Gould for geography.

So you agree with NOYB that commerical fishermen are raping the
waters,
but disagree with NOYB that everybody should catch his or her own
fish.
Thanks for the clarification.

I don't think that everybody whould catch his/her own fish. But
curbs need to be imposed on commercial fishing.

The commercial guys take 89% of the grouper out of the Gulf...yet
they keep reducing the limits for recreational anglers.


That makes no sense.


How about yelling at your elected chumps to stop issuing commercial
licenses NOW, so as the fisherman die or retire, there will be less
commercial pressure? I think I read about that already being done
elsewhere.

The problem is that the commercials managed to get their very own
Manchurian Candidate on the NMFS council.

Dr. Roy Crabtree is the NOAA Fisheries Service's Southeast Regional
Administrator. He's also a shill for the commercial fisherman, and has
opposed every suggestion to buy out the commercial licenses as they
expire.


You have time and money. Instead of complaining here, how about walking
around the marina with a petition, and sending it to your governor?
Then, follow up with phonecalls until his office gives you an
appointment.

What is the governor going to do about a rogue NOAA director?

Commercial licenses are Federal permits. It's not a state issue.

Not yet. But, I guess you're right. You should do nothing but complain
about it here, where nobody from any governmental agency will ever see it.
This way, your expenditure of time is minimal and you can get back to your
next martini, and leave the hard work of being a real citizen up to
somebody else. Or, to nobody.

Traitor.

LOL. Have you been taking grumpy pills while I've been away?

Several hundred members and I from a fishing forum in Florida already wrote
our Senator about this issue when they were trying to lower the limit on
total grouper (not just red grouper) from 5 to 3. The letters were
apparently successful:

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/08/09/St...sts_grou.shtml

The reason that I'm posting about the regulations on rec.boats is so that
everybody else who is unaware of NOAA's unfair treatment of recreational
anglers can also write a letter.

Capisce?

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
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"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"NOYB" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
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"NOYB" wrote in message
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"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com...

JimH wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com...

JimH wrote:
"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...
Catch your own fish. Or eat beef. Commercial guys rape the
waters.



I agree.

Jim, can I then assume you don't eat any seafood that doesn't
come out
of Lake Michigan?
On the end of your personal fishing line?

No Alaska King Crab, Louisiana shrimp, or even tuna fish for you.
:-)
Bummer.


NP Chuck. I boat and fish on Lake Erie, not Lake Michigan.

Just because I eat fish does not mean the commercial fishermen are
not
raping the waters. They sure are on Lake Erie.

Lake Erie. duh, of course. Zero points to Gould for geography.

So you agree with NOYB that commerical fishermen are raping the
waters,
but disagree with NOYB that everybody should catch his or her own
fish.
Thanks for the clarification.

I don't think that everybody whould catch his/her own fish. But
curbs need to be imposed on commercial fishing.

The commercial guys take 89% of the grouper out of the Gulf...yet
they keep reducing the limits for recreational anglers.


That makes no sense.


How about yelling at your elected chumps to stop issuing commercial
licenses NOW, so as the fisherman die or retire, there will be less
commercial pressure? I think I read about that already being done
elsewhere.

The problem is that the commercials managed to get their very own
Manchurian Candidate on the NMFS council.

Dr. Roy Crabtree is the NOAA Fisheries Service's Southeast Regional
Administrator. He's also a shill for the commercial fisherman, and has
opposed every suggestion to buy out the commercial licenses as they
expire.


You have time and money. Instead of complaining here, how about walking
around the marina with a petition, and sending it to your governor?
Then, follow up with phonecalls until his office gives you an
appointment.

What is the governor going to do about a rogue NOAA director?

Commercial licenses are Federal permits. It's not a state issue.



And you have state people that sit in the Federal Congress and Senate.

Doug said to write a letter to the Governor. The proper venue to air the
complaint is with U.S. House and Senate members.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 22:55:29 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

I'm doing my darn'dest to rid the world of mercury...one tooth at a time.
It's composite resin or porcelain crowns only for me.

No gold?

My gold crowns have proven to be extremely durable and no mercury is
involved as far as I know.


Gold is excellent. In fact, it's the "gold standard" to which all other
restorations are measured. But nobody seems to want metal anymore.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 22:51:01 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

Can you cite an example? I can't really think what type of infrastructure
might help both commercial and recreational anglers.

I think that the buoy system and navaids in general might be a good
example, not to mention breakwater maintenance and harbor dredging.

If not for commercial interests of one type or another, there would be
little support for spending on these activities.

I find that hard to believe. There are no commercial boats running out of
Wiggins Pass, Clam Pass, and Doctor's Pass...and hardly any out of Gordon's
pass. Yet the navaids and buoy systems in those passes are maintained just
fine. In fact, they're currently dredging Wiggins pass and Clam pass.

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Shaun Van Poecke" wrote in message
news

"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...
Catch your own fish. Or eat beef. Commercial guys rape the waters.

raise your own livestock; commercial farmers rape the land ;-)

Shaun



Yeah. Farmers, too.

Cattlemen and farmers do not deplete a resource without replacing it. Can
you say the same about commercial fisherman?

"NOYB" wrote in message
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"Calif Bill" wrote in message
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"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"NOYB" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com...

JimH wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com...

JimH wrote:
"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...
Catch your own fish. Or eat beef. Commercial guys rape the
waters.



I agree.

Jim, can I then assume you don't eat any seafood that doesn't
come out
of Lake Michigan?
On the end of your personal fishing line?

No Alaska King Crab, Louisiana shrimp, or even tuna fish for
you. :-)
Bummer.


NP Chuck. I boat and fish on Lake Erie, not Lake Michigan.

Just because I eat fish does not mean the commercial fishermen are
not
raping the waters. They sure are on Lake Erie.

Lake Erie. duh, of course. Zero points to Gould for geography.

So you agree with NOYB that commerical fishermen are raping the
waters,
but disagree with NOYB that everybody should catch his or her own
fish.
Thanks for the clarification.

I don't think that everybody whould catch his/her own fish. But
curbs need to be imposed on commercial fishing.

The commercial guys take 89% of the grouper out of the Gulf...yet
they keep reducing the limits for recreational anglers.


That makes no sense.


How about yelling at your elected chumps to stop issuing commercial
licenses NOW, so as the fisherman die or retire, there will be less
commercial pressure? I think I read about that already being done
elsewhere.

The problem is that the commercials managed to get their very own
Manchurian Candidate on the NMFS council.

Dr. Roy Crabtree is the NOAA Fisheries Service's Southeast Regional
Administrator. He's also a shill for the commercial fisherman, and
has opposed every suggestion to buy out the commercial licenses as
they expire.


You have time and money. Instead of complaining here, how about walking
around the marina with a petition, and sending it to your governor?
Then, follow up with phonecalls until his office gives you an
appointment.

What is the governor going to do about a rogue NOAA director?

Commercial licenses are Federal permits. It's not a state issue.



And you have state people that sit in the Federal Congress and Senate.

Doug said to write a letter to the Governor. The proper venue to air the
complaint is with U.S. House and Senate members.


Always start local. They're the most vulnerable politicians, and the ones
with the biggest ambitions. They're also the ones most likely to be
"beholdin' to" local interests. On the take, in other words.

"NOYB" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Shaun Van Poecke" wrote in message
news

"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...
Catch your own fish. Or eat beef. Commercial guys rape the waters.

raise your own livestock; commercial farmers rape the land ;-)

Shaun



Yeah. Farmers, too.

Cattlemen and farmers do not deplete a resource without replacing it. Can
you say the same about commercial fisherman?


Farmers USED to deplete resources. Cattlemen still do, depending on which
beef you're referring to. Quite a bit of beef comes from Latin America,
where rain forests have been replaced with grazing land whose products feed
just one industry: Fast food.

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...


Farmers USED to deplete resources. Cattlemen still do, depending on which
beef you're referring to. Quite a bit of beef comes from Latin America,
where rain forests have been replaced with grazing land whose products
feed just one industry: Fast food.


On the other hand, recently released studies indicate that the negative
impact of cutting down forests, including tropical rain forests, have been
greatly overestimated in the past. The total amount is insignificant in the
grand scheme of things and, surprisingly, cutting down old trees allows new
trees to grow that have much greater positive impacts on the atmosphere and
environment. The overall effect is positive.

Another case of over-zealous doomsayers?

Eisboch

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...


Farmers USED to deplete resources. Cattlemen still do, depending on which
beef you're referring to. Quite a bit of beef comes from Latin America,
where rain forests have been replaced with grazing land whose products
feed just one industry: Fast food.


On the other hand, recently released studies indicate that the negative
impact of cutting down forests, including tropical rain forests, have been
greatly overestimated in the past. The total amount is insignificant in
the grand scheme of things and, surprisingly, cutting down old trees
allows new trees to grow that have much greater positive impacts on the
atmosphere and environment. The overall effect is positive.

Another case of over-zealous doomsayers?

Eisboch


Maybe, but new trees do not grow on grazing land. Otherwise, it would not be
useful as grazing land.

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"RCE" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...


Farmers USED to deplete resources. Cattlemen still do, depending on
which beef you're referring to. Quite a bit of beef comes from Latin
America, where rain forests have been replaced with grazing land whose
products feed just one industry: Fast food.


On the other hand, recently released studies indicate that the negative
impact of cutting down forests, including tropical rain forests, have
been greatly overestimated in the past. The total amount is
insignificant in the grand scheme of things and, surprisingly, cutting
down old trees allows new trees to grow that have much greater positive
impacts on the atmosphere and environment. The overall effect is
positive.

Another case of over-zealous doomsayers?

Eisboch


Maybe, but new trees do not grow on grazing land. Otherwise, it would not
be useful as grazing land.

Agreed, but the amount that has been cut down is, according to the study,
"insignificant" in terms of negative effects on the environment. Something
like 90 percent of the forests remain, even after 40 something years of
creating new grazing land. And the older, abandoned grazing land is
supporting growth of new forests that convert more CO2 to O2 than old
forests as they grow.

Eisboch