On Sep. 6, 1522 the Spanish ship Victoria of the Magellan exposition
completed the first circumnavigation of the Earth. It even managed to
sail thousands of miles of open sea.
IIRC it is possible to circumnavigate the Earth and never get more than
2300 miles from land, the stretch between Easter Island and South
America, the next largest stretch is less than 1900 miles between the
Pitcairn Islands and Easter Island. Otherwise one can rermain much
closer to land. Was the Victoria the first ship capable of sailing
around the world had the crew known what to do? I wonder when the first
ships seaworthworthy enough to do so were built?

It seems to me the hardest part for the best ships of two thousand
years ago would be the stretch from Brazil around the horn to the
Pitcairn Islands. Were any of the ships that ancient seaworthy enough
to do so?

I'm sure there were. I mean, If a cobbled raft (KonTiki) could sail the
Pacific, and Vikings could weather the North Atlantic in big row boats
with partial wind power, I'm sure somebody could come up with something
to navigate the "Horns" of S. America and Africa.



john0714 wrote:
On Sep. 6, 1522 the Spanish ship Victoria of the Magellan exposition
completed the first circumnavigation of the Earth. It even managed to
sail thousands of miles of open sea.
IIRC it is possible to circumnavigate the Earth and never get more than
2300 miles from land, the stretch between Easter Island and South
America, the next largest stretch is less than 1900 miles between the
Pitcairn Islands and Easter Island. Otherwise one can rermain much
closer to land. Was the Victoria the first ship capable of sailing
around the world had the crew known what to do? I wonder when the first
ships seaworthworthy enough to do so were built?

It seems to me the hardest part for the best ships of two thousand
years ago would be the stretch from Brazil around the horn to the
Pitcairn Islands. Were any of the ships that ancient seaworthy enough
to do so?

Yeah, you have to better define what you're requirements would be. Getting
a lone man across the ocean isn't a big deal, as Heyerdahl proved in
Kon-Tiki. Getting a full crew and gear suitable for exploring and trade
with locals is another matter entirely.

"Tim" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm sure there were. I mean, If a cobbled raft (KonTiki) could sail the
Pacific, and Vikings could weather the North Atlantic in big row boats
with partial wind power, I'm sure somebody could come up with something
to navigate the "Horns" of S. America and Africa.



john0714 wrote:
On Sep. 6, 1522 the Spanish ship Victoria of the Magellan exposition
completed the first circumnavigation of the Earth. It even managed to
sail thousands of miles of open sea.
IIRC it is possible to circumnavigate the Earth and never get more than
2300 miles from land, the stretch between Easter Island and South
America, the next largest stretch is less than 1900 miles between the
Pitcairn Islands and Easter Island. Otherwise one can rermain much
closer to land. Was the Victoria the first ship capable of sailing
around the world had the crew known what to do? I wonder when the first
ships seaworthworthy enough to do so were built?

It seems to me the hardest part for the best ships of two thousand
years ago would be the stretch from Brazil around the horn to the
Pitcairn Islands. Were any of the ships that ancient seaworthy enough
to do so?

Bill Kearney wrote:
Yeah, you have to better define what you're requirements would be. Getting
a lone man across the ocean isn't a big deal, as Heyerdahl proved in
Kon-Tiki. Getting a full crew and gear suitable for exploring and trade
with locals is another matter entirely.



That is what I mean, a full crew and gear.


"Tim" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm sure there were. I mean, If a cobbled raft (KonTiki) could sail the
Pacific, and Vikings could weather the North Atlantic in big row boats
with partial wind power, I'm sure somebody could come up with something
to navigate the "Horns" of S. America and Africa.



john0714 wrote:
On Sep. 6, 1522 the Spanish ship Victoria of the Magellan exposition
completed the first circumnavigation of the Earth. It even managed to
sail thousands of miles of open sea.
IIRC it is possible to circumnavigate the Earth and never get more than
2300 miles from land, the stretch between Easter Island and South
America, the next largest stretch is less than 1900 miles between the
Pitcairn Islands and Easter Island. Otherwise one can rermain much
closer to land. Was the Victoria the first ship capable of sailing
around the world had the crew known what to do? I wonder when the first
ships seaworthworthy enough to do so were built?

It seems to me the hardest part for the best ships of two thousand
years ago would be the stretch from Brazil around the horn to the
Pitcairn Islands. Were any of the ships that ancient seaworthy enough
to do so?

On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 20:58:49 -0500, "Bill Kearney"
wkearney-99@hot-mail-com wrote:

Yeah, you have to better define what you're requirements would be. Getting
a lone man across the ocean isn't a big deal, as Heyerdahl proved in
Kon-Tiki. Getting a full crew and gear suitable for exploring and trade
with locals is another matter entirely.

Heyerdahl did not sail alone:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kon-Tiki

john0714 wrote:
On Sep. 6, 1522 the Spanish ship Victoria of the Magellan exposition
completed the first circumnavigation of the Earth. It even managed to
sail thousands of miles of open sea.
IIRC it is possible to circumnavigate the Earth and never get more than
2300 miles from land, the stretch between Easter Island and South
America, the next largest stretch is less than 1900 miles between the
Pitcairn Islands and Easter Island. Otherwise one can rermain much
closer to land. Was the Victoria the first ship capable of sailing
around the world had the crew known what to do? I wonder when the first
ships seaworthworthy enough to do so were built?

It seems to me the hardest part for the best ships of two thousand
years ago would be the stretch from Brazil around the horn to the
Pitcairn Islands. Were any of the ships that ancient seaworthy enough
to do so?

I believe if you move from Eurocentered history you will find many
examples of open ocean voyages. Though the documentation may not be as
good.

Examples are Chinese visits to the America's west coast prior to 1492.
(There is some indication that they were in the Atlantic.) The
colonization voyages of the pacific islands, etc.

After reading many books for many years I believe the seafaring
capabilities of early sailor and their accomplishments are greatly
underrated. I have come to think of the early sailors as the truck
drivers of their times.






--
Keith Nuttle
3110 Marquette Court
Indianapolis, IN 46268
317-802-0699

"Keith nuttle" wrote in message
et...
john0714 wrote:
On Sep. 6, 1522 the Spanish ship Victoria of the Magellan exposition
completed the first circumnavigation of the Earth. It even managed to
sail thousands of miles of open sea.
IIRC it is possible to circumnavigate the Earth and never get more than
2300 miles from land, the stretch between Easter Island and South
America, the next largest stretch is less than 1900 miles between the
Pitcairn Islands and Easter Island. Otherwise one can rermain much
closer to land. Was the Victoria the first ship capable of sailing
around the world had the crew known what to do? I wonder when the first
ships seaworthworthy enough to do so were built?

It seems to me the hardest part for the best ships of two thousand
years ago would be the stretch from Brazil around the horn to the
Pitcairn Islands. Were any of the ships that ancient seaworthy enough
to do so?

I believe if you move from Eurocentered history you will find many
examples of open ocean voyages. Though the documentation may not be as
good.

Examples are Chinese visits to the America's west coast prior to 1492.
(There is some indication that they were in the Atlantic.) The
colonization voyages of the pacific islands, etc.

After reading many books for many years I believe the seafaring
capabilities of early sailor and their accomplishments are greatly
underrated. I have come to think of the early sailors as the truck
drivers of their times.


Columbus may have had charts of parts of the Americas. The fisherman had
followed the birds and fish for years, so there was a lot of knowledge. The
Norsemen had a colony in Nova Scotia area for awhile. Friend just did the
Europe to the Americas rally with ARC
http://arc.worldcruising.com/en/dail...ate=2+Dec+2006
is one of the entries I googled up. They had not problems but did have a
watermaker and motor for generating power when needed. This was a 46' boat.

Calif Bill wrote:

Columbus may have had charts of parts of the Americas. The fisherman had
followed the birds and fish for years, so there was a lot of knowledge. The
Norsemen had a colony in Nova Scotia area for awhile.

An underappreciated aspect of Columbus' voyage is that he had a pretty
fair idea just exactly where he was going.

As you note, fisherman, the Norse, and others had been voyaging to NA
for centuries prior to 1492. It wasn't much of a secret that there was
land to the west. Every educated person knew the world was round long
before 1492, and there were some remarkably accurate estimates of its
size. It wouldn't take a genius to realize that the land reported by
the Norse, by cod fishermen, etc were too close to be Asia and India.

Biggest problem that Columbus faced was getting financing from "Their
Most Catholic Majesties" in Spain. The official position of the church
in the 15th Century was that there could not possibly be another
continent or continents to the west as there was no mention of such
land masses in the Bible. The fear was that if things that were not
addressed in the Bible were discovered, the general public might begin
to question whether the Bible, the Pope, and the Church were really
infallible. And that wouldn't do at all -not with the Spanish
Inquisition just getting under way, etc.

By promoting his voyage as an attempt to reach "India", (which was
recognized by the church), he didn't run afoul of the official church
dogma.

And yes, there is a lot of evidence of cultural exchange between China
and Mexico, as well as between people indigenous to the Pacific Islands
and native Americans of the Pacific NW. One look at the similarities
between a Pacific NW story pole (popularly called "totem poles") and
some of the carvings from Polynesia reveals some similarities that are
either the result of cultural exchanges or a truly *amazing*
coincidence.

Here's an interesting article, that might fall in suit with this
thread.

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2007/0...19-502-ak-0000




john0714 wrote:
On Sep. 6, 1522 the Spanish ship Victoria of the Magellan exposition
completed the first circumnavigation of the Earth. It even managed to
sail thousands of miles of open sea.
IIRC it is possible to circumnavigate the Earth and never get more than
2300 miles from land, the stretch between Easter Island and South
America, the next largest stretch is less than 1900 miles between the
Pitcairn Islands and Easter Island. Otherwise one can rermain much
closer to land. Was the Victoria the first ship capable of sailing
around the world had the crew known what to do? I wonder when the first
ships seaworthworthy enough to do so were built?

It seems to me the hardest part for the best ships of two thousand
years ago would be the stretch from Brazil around the horn to the
Pitcairn Islands. Were any of the ships that ancient seaworthy enough
to do so?

On Jan 24, 12:27*pm, "Tim" wrote:
Here's an interesting article, that might fall in suit with this
thread.

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2007/0...c.html?categor...



john0714 wrote:
On Sep. 6, 1522 the Spanish ship Victoria of the Magellan exposition
completed the first circumnavigation of the Earth. It even managed to
sail thousands of miles of open sea.
IIRC it is possible to circumnavigate the Earth and never get more than
2300 miles from land, the stretch between Easter Island and South
America, the next largest stretch is less than 1900 miles between the
Pitcairn Islands and Easter Island. Otherwise one can rermain much
closer to land. Was the Victoria the first ship capable of sailing
around the world had the crew known what to do? I wonder when the first
ships seaworthworthy enough to do so were built?

It seems to me the hardest part for the best ships of two thousand
years ago would be the stretch from Brazil around the horn to the
Pitcairn Islands. Were any of the ships that ancient seaworthy enough
to do so?- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -



Here's a link with a lot of detail about European voyages to North
America dating back about 500 years prior to 1492, along with a note
that Columbus is documented to have been in Iceland in 1477. There is
no *proof* that he learned of the vinyards, lumber camps, and ship
repair facilities operated by the Norse on the western shores of the
Atlantic, but it would almost stretch the imagination more to believe
that he somehow avoided doing so than to assume that he did. The site
documents the extensive use of iron fasteners in Norse ships as far
back as the 10th century.

http://www.hurstwic.org/history/arti...xploration.htm