http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...HsE&refer=home

Wayne. B wrote:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...HsE&refer=home


One of the most crucial comments in the entire piece could have been an
easily overlooked paragraph in the middle:
......

``The boating industry is not bringing in new customers,'' said
Jonathan Cramer, an analyst at Cowen & Co. in New York. He has a
``neutral'' rating on MarineMax and doesn't own the stock."

.....

Of course new people *are* taking up the pastime, but only at about the
same rate that old farts are giving it up. New boats are built to
replace old junkers that are scrapped, and as the baby boomers are in
their peak spending years there is unprecedented demand for bigger
boats than ever before. A fairly static number of customers wants to
buy fewer but bigger boats, and young people are generally a lot less
interested in boating than their parents or grandparents were. Not
healthy signs.

And it's the industry's collective fault. Right now there are more
70-foot plus boats for sale in Seattle alone than sold in the entire
state of Washington in the last 18 months. Some of these sellers will
be left holding multi-million dollar bags. Ouch. Go to a boat show and
try to find an attractive, versatile, family cruising boat ("sleeps 4")
for under six figures- almost impossible. When the industry posits each
vessel as something that will convey the aura of being among the
privileged elite, it's no wonder that pretty soon people are unwilling
to consider boating as a family pastime because it appears to be far
too expensive.

If the industry got back to the message that simply being out on the
water was the important thing and offered some boats that weren't
simply strategically designed to be missing some important feature and
thereby motivate trade-ups, it would eventually create an expanding
market. A percentage of that expansion would ultimately become
prospects for those 60-foot and larger "home runs" that the builders
all love to sell.

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com...

When the industry posits each
vessel as something that will convey the aura of being among the
privileged elite, it's no wonder that pretty soon people are unwilling
to consider boating as a family pastime because it appears to be far
too expensive.

It is far too expensive. I figure that it costs me $2000/month to own my
boat (loan, insurance, maintenance, and fuel). And that's before
depreciation...and excluding any major repairs.

Add in the additional cost to have a home on the water to keep the boat at
(or for those not on the water, dry storage which can run $500/month), and
the cost of ownership is off the charts.

But I look at it this way...
I don't gamble. I don't golf anymore. I have no real vices (except for the
internet). Every weekend, I go out on the boat and have a mini-vacation
with the family. To me, it's worth every penny.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
On 1/10/2007 10:33 AM, NOYB wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com...

When the industry posits each
vessel as something that will convey the aura of being among the
privileged elite, it's no wonder that pretty soon people are unwilling
to consider boating as a family pastime because it appears to be far
too expensive.

It is far too expensive. I figure that it costs me $2000/month to own my
boat (loan, insurance, maintenance, and fuel). And that's before
depreciation...and excluding any major repairs.

Add in the additional cost to have a home on the water to keep the boat
at (or for those not on the water, dry storage which can run $500/month),
and the cost of ownership is off the charts.

But I look at it this way...
I don't gamble. I don't golf anymore. I have no real vices (except for
the internet). Every weekend, I go out on the boat and have a
mini-vacation with the family. To me, it's worth every penny.



When I was a kid, I fished in Long Island Sound with mostly 12' or 14'
open rowboats with small outboards, 3 hp to 7-1/2 hp. Caught lots of fish
of all kinds, including some big stripers. Sometimes I think that is
really the way to do it.

How's the inshore and nearshore fishing in your area? Maybe you don't need
a big, two-outboard gas guzzler.

Inshore is very good for snook, redfish, and trout. Nearshore is good for
tarpon. But I don't really enjoy inshore fishing that much.

I want to catch fish that has a chance of pulling me in.

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


Is that over a year?

Couldn't be...

I don't think that $2000 is an unusual monthly expense for a guy who
lives where he can go offshore fishing every weekend *and* is including
his boat loan in the total. It doesn't take all that much boat to
require a monthly boat payment of 4 figures these days.

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 16:23:58 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

Is that over a year?

Couldn't be...

Have you insured a boat in south Florida recently?

12 month season, hurricanes, etc. The insurance companies have had
huge losses in Florida and the Gulf states over the last two years.
Most of them act like they are doing you a favor to even consider
insuring your boat or house.

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 16:54:55 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

It's a losing proposition and I find that $24,000, half of what the
average American earns in a year, outrageous.

Perhaps, but my expenses on the GB are even higher. I think it's safe
to say that the average American does not own a boat worth well into 6
figures. In our case we view it as a second home.

Boats have become increasingly larger and as a result, much more
expensive in the last two decades.

The typicall "wake board" boat can cost in the 40K region which
is ridiculous (no, I don't like wakeboarding).

Gone are the days of the 17 Ft. I/O (mostly) in the 20K region with
a few exceptions.

Boating is becoming a "rich person's sport" vs. just plain fun in many
cases. When I pass the boat dealers out here, their lots are full of
boats costing in the mid 50K to over 100K region.

The boating industry needs a "recalibration" regarding affordability
and the market will take care of them in due time.

b.

Harry Krause wrote:
On 1/10/2007 11:54 AM, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 10 Jan 2007 08:31:36 -0800, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

Is that over a year?

Couldn't be...
I don't think that $2000 is an unusual monthly expense for a guy who
lives where he can go offshore fishing every weekend *and* is including
his boat loan in the total. It doesn't take all that much boat to
require a monthly boat payment of 4 figures these days.

I have never paid for a boat with a loan.

It's a losing proposition and I find that $24,000, half of what the
average American earns in a year, outrageous.

That's why I asked the question.



A four figure boat loan?

Insanity.

It's either insaniity, or a $120,000 balance at 6% for 180 months.
($1012).
Lots of boat loans are for substantially more than $120,000.
Not so much for trailerable fishing boats, but getting up into the
family cruiser category it wouldn't be unusual to have a $120,000 or
higher loan.

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com...

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


Is that over a year?

Couldn't be...

I don't think that $2000 is an unusual monthly expense for a guy who
lives where he can go offshore fishing every weekend *and* is including
his boat loan in the total.

On the Grady White, insurance is $3500/year...or $300/mo. Gas runs $500/mo.
Boat payment is $777/mo. Maintainance is $1500/yr...or $125/mo. Bait and
ice is another $100 or so. Fishing tackle (line, leader, hooks, weights,
jigs, etc.) is another $100/mo.

The 17' Whaler is paid for. Insurance is $500/yr, but gas is negligible in
that boat.

Combined, they cost me $2000/month.