"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On 10 Jan 2007 08:31:36 -0800, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:


Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


Is that over a year?

Couldn't be...

I don't think that $2000 is an unusual monthly expense for a guy who
lives where he can go offshore fishing every weekend *and* is including
his boat loan in the total. It doesn't take all that much boat to
require a monthly boat payment of 4 figures these days.

I have never paid for a boat with a loan.


If you own a $100,000 boat without a loan, then that boat is still costing
you $6000-8000/year in lost opportunity cost...which is the amount you'd
have earned if you had invested the money in something else.

So there's $500-650/month.

Your insurance has to run another $200/month.

And your gas probably runs $300-500/month (and that's with just 20 hours of
usage per month).

Now add maintainance and oil, etc.

And bait, ice, fishing gear and tackle.

You're in the $1200-1500/mo. range too...and you didn't even realize it.



It's a losing proposition and I find that $24,000, half of what the
average American earns in a year, outrageous.


That's precisely the point that Chuck and I were making.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...

Most of them act like they are doing you a favor to even consider
insuring your boat or house.


Most of them laugh, and then hang up on me.

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 12:45:07 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 16:23:58 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

Is that over a year?

Couldn't be...

Have you insured a boat in south Florida recently?

12 month season, hurricanes, etc. The insurance companies have had
huge losses in Florida and the Gulf states over the last two years.
Most of them act like they are doing you a favor to even consider
insuring your boat or house.

I didn't think of that.

Still seems outrageous.

Read my breakdown of "costs" that applies even to the guy who pays cash.

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
Perhaps, but my expenses on the GB are even higher. I think it's safe
to say that the average American does not own a boat worth well into 6
figures. In our case we view it as a second home.

It's good we're having this discussion - just adds more fuel to my
fire about cruising. :)

Tom, you still considering buying that tug boat?

Harry Krause wrote:
For around $150,000, you can buy a nice, modern, small house on acreage
in Costa Rica, farm coffee (or lease the land out), and be within
spitting distance of fabulous fishing, and without spending a fortune on
a boat. I have a retired friend down there who did that three years ago.

What would you say his cost of living is, Harry?

I mean, fuel, groceries etc, maybe property tax, ect?

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 15:09:40 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

For around $150,000, you can buy a nice, modern, small house on acreage
in Costa Rica, farm coffee (or lease the land out), and be within
spitting distance of fabulous fishing, and without spending a fortune on
a boat. I have a retired friend down there who did that three years ago.

What do you do when they decide to kick the gringos out or tax them to
death?

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 19:47:45 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:


"Wayne.B" wrote in message
.. .

Most of them act like they are doing you a favor to even consider
insuring your boat or house.


Most of them laugh, and then hang up on me.


That too.

And if you've had a recent claim (knock on wood), then you are really
wasting your time.

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 16:54:55 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

I have never paid for a boat with a loan.

It's a losing proposition

Not necessarily so.

If you can "rent" money for a bit over 5% (and deduct the rent), while
at the same time making 9 to 12% on other investments, where is the
losing proposition?

Harry Krause wrote:
On 1/10/2007 3:12 PM, Tim wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:
For around $150,000, you can buy a nice, modern, small house on acreage
in Costa Rica, farm coffee (or lease the land out), and be within
spitting distance of fabulous fishing, and without spending a fortune on
a boat. I have a retired friend down there who did that three years ago.

What would you say his cost of living is, Harry?

I mean, fuel, groceries etc, maybe property tax, ect?


"Fancy" real estate is quite expensive, but a new modestly sized house
with full amenities is not. You can rent a decent three bedroom house
for under $500 a month. Purchase of a car is expensive. Food is cheap.
I believe he told me he and his wife have national health insurance.

The last time we spoke about this, maybe a year or so ago, he told me he
and his wife lived "very well" on "her Social Security check," which was
about $1200 a month, and that they banked his and his other retirement
income.

They bought a 15-acre coffee "planation" with a modern house and a barn
for around $125,000. They lease out the coffee bushes or trees or whatever.

I've got a work related friend who's in-laws live in Costa Rica, and
they are living very well on their modest retirement income.

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 19:46:35 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
. ..
On 10 Jan 2007 08:31:36 -0800, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:


Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


Is that over a year?

Couldn't be...

I don't think that $2000 is an unusual monthly expense for a guy who
lives where he can go offshore fishing every weekend *and* is including
his boat loan in the total. It doesn't take all that much boat to
require a monthly boat payment of 4 figures these days.

I have never paid for a boat with a loan.


If you own a $100,000 boat without a loan, then that boat is still costing
you $6000-8000/year in lost opportunity cost...which is the amount you'd
have earned if you had invested the money in something else.

So there's $500-650/month.

Your talking about a boat - it inherently is a losing proposition and
adding interest on top of it just makes it worse. You can't win on a
loan in which the principle is losing money every day. Any interest
or money you might make is offset by the losses.


The depreciation is there whether you pay cash or finance it.

I'm paying 6.25% on my loan. I don't have $100,000 laying around to plunk
down on a boat. If I did, and I paid cash, then I'd miss out on the
interest or gains that I could make by investing that money.

Don't forget that the interest on my boat loan qualifies for a second home
mortgage deduction too.

If you borrow at 6.25%, and invest your cash at 5%...you're even once you
consider the tax dedution. If you invest the cash at a an 8% return, you're
way ahead by financing.


Your insurance has to run another $200/month

$685 dollars a year for three boats. Full liability up to 2.5
million. Full replacement value on all three. I can show you the
bill. Traveler's Insurance.

Oh. My. God.

I'm near four thousand for two boats with insured values of $130,000
combined.



And your gas probably runs $300-500/month (and that's with just 20 hours
of
usage per month).

Half that per month on my E-TEC at 20 hours of usage. I think the
highest monthly gas bill I had last year on the Ranger was $200 and
that was over 40 hours in the fall. I might spend $600 all summer and
maybe another $60 on XD-100 oil.

Apples to oranges. You're comparing a twin-engine offshore boat with a
displacement of near 12,000 lbs to a bass boat.



It was even better on the Contender because that was a break even
operation.

And bait, ice, fishing gear and tackle.

I don't use live bait, I build most of my tackle and rods.

You're in the $1200-1500/mo. range too...and you didn't even realize it.

Not even close my good friend - not even close.


When you had the Contender, I guarantee it was costing you at least
$2000/mo. to own and operate (that's figure includes the opportunity cost of
not investing the cash in something with a decent return).

You can say it "was a break even operation" because you chartered the boat
out. If you didn't have charter revenue coming in, and you ran it just as
much, but for purely recreational purposes like I do, what were the monthly
expenses? (ice, fuel, depreciation, etc).