Animal05 wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:

basskisser wrote:

Rick wrote:

"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

Stanley Barthfarkle wrote:

I agree. If folks put themselves in harms way intentionally and end
up
needing rescue they should pay the bill. But that should not
stop the
effort to save a human life.

I don't know about you, but around here we pay taxes just for those
things. You are putting yourself in harms way every time your furnace
turns on, risk of fire, you know. You are putting yourself in
harms way
when you go outside and get your mail, you are always at some sort of
risk. So, again in these parts we pay taxes for fire departments,
emergency services and such.


Not the same. Intentionally putting oneself at undue risk is not
the same
as
everyday going-about-your-life risks. (Unless you're a whiny ****bag
"everyone should pay for my mistakes and welfare"
run-the-****ing-country-into-the-ground and
sue-everyone-that-has-any-money
Socialist, I guess)

Need a rescue because you were in an auto accident? Sure thing.
Need a rescue because you were going 110 mph trying to drag race or
outrun
the police? Not on my tax bill, pal.

Need a rescue because your pleasure boat ran aground or ran out of
gas?
No
problem.
Need a rescue because you ran through the "graveyard" around Tierra
Del
Forego during the stormy season while trying to set a world record?
Sure
thing- here's your itemized rescue bill.

You are intentionally putting yourself in harms way every time you get
in your car, go outside to get the mail, get on a plane, go to the
grocery store, plug something into a receptacle, anything.

OK but if you are injured and need help who pays?
1) If you are in a car accident you pay car insurance for just
such a
mishap. So in reality you pay.


EMS and fire services are payed by my tax obligations.

2) If you go outside to get the mail, slip, and fall you have home
owners insurance or medical insurance. So in reality you pay.


EMS and fire services are paid by my tax obligations.

3) If you slip and fall in the grocery store - well this is a little
tricky but either your insurance or their insurance will pay. If it is
their insurance - you pay because they charge you a little more on
the price
of food for their premiums.


EMS and fire services, again, are paid by my tax obligations.

guess again, you and your insurance company will be billed for EMS and
Fire Services.

Around here, they even bill for police response to car accidents if they
are not a resident of the municipality.

Detroit. Enough said.

"Varis" wrote in message
oups.com...

JimH wrote:

The bottom line: He put himself in harms way. His boat failed him.
Extraordinary resources were spent saving him. He should therefore
foot the bill, not the taxpayers.

But this would apply to all boaters...

Risto


And most cases the boater has to pay for the tow, etc.

basskisser wrote:
Animal05 wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:

basskisser wrote:

Rick wrote:

"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

Stanley Barthfarkle wrote:

I agree. If folks put themselves in harms way intentionally and end
up
needing rescue they should pay the bill. But that should not
stop the
effort to save a human life.
I don't know about you, but around here we pay taxes just for those
things. You are putting yourself in harms way every time your furnace
turns on, risk of fire, you know. You are putting yourself in
harms way
when you go outside and get your mail, you are always at some sort of
risk. So, again in these parts we pay taxes for fire departments,
emergency services and such.

Not the same. Intentionally putting oneself at undue risk is not
the same
as
everyday going-about-your-life risks. (Unless you're a whiny ****bag
"everyone should pay for my mistakes and welfare"
run-the-****ing-country-into-the-ground and
sue-everyone-that-has-any-money
Socialist, I guess)

Need a rescue because you were in an auto accident? Sure thing.
Need a rescue because you were going 110 mph trying to drag race or
outrun
the police? Not on my tax bill, pal.

Need a rescue because your pleasure boat ran aground or ran out of
gas?
No
problem.
Need a rescue because you ran through the "graveyard" around Tierra
Del
Forego during the stormy season while trying to set a world record?
Sure
thing- here's your itemized rescue bill.
You are intentionally putting yourself in harms way every time you get
in your car, go outside to get the mail, get on a plane, go to the
grocery store, plug something into a receptacle, anything.

OK but if you are injured and need help who pays?
1) If you are in a car accident you pay car insurance for just
such a
mishap. So in reality you pay.

EMS and fire services are payed by my tax obligations.

2) If you go outside to get the mail, slip, and fall you have home
owners insurance or medical insurance. So in reality you pay.

EMS and fire services are paid by my tax obligations.

3) If you slip and fall in the grocery store - well this is a little
tricky but either your insurance or their insurance will pay. If it is
their insurance - you pay because they charge you a little more on
the price
of food for their premiums.

EMS and fire services, again, are paid by my tax obligations.

guess again, you and your insurance company will be billed for EMS and
Fire Services.
Around here, they even bill for police response to car accidents if they
are not a resident of the municipality.

Detroit. Enough said.

In your county and city, you have to pay for both EMS and Fire Services.
enough said.

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
basskisser wrote:
Animal05 wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:

basskisser wrote:

Rick wrote:

"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

Stanley Barthfarkle wrote:

I agree. If folks put themselves in harms way intentionally and end
up
needing rescue they should pay the bill. But that should not
stop the
effort to save a human life.
I don't know about you, but around here we pay taxes just for those
things. You are putting yourself in harms way every time your furnace
turns on, risk of fire, you know. You are putting yourself in
harms way
when you go outside and get your mail, you are always at some sort of
risk. So, again in these parts we pay taxes for fire departments,
emergency services and such.

Not the same. Intentionally putting oneself at undue risk is not
the same
as
everyday going-about-your-life risks. (Unless you're a whiny ****bag
"everyone should pay for my mistakes and welfare"
run-the-****ing-country-into-the-ground and
sue-everyone-that-has-any-money
Socialist, I guess)

Need a rescue because you were in an auto accident? Sure thing.
Need a rescue because you were going 110 mph trying to drag race or
outrun
the police? Not on my tax bill, pal.

Need a rescue because your pleasure boat ran aground or ran out of
gas?
No
problem.
Need a rescue because you ran through the "graveyard" around Tierra
Del
Forego during the stormy season while trying to set a world record?
Sure
thing- here's your itemized rescue bill.
You are intentionally putting yourself in harms way every time you get
in your car, go outside to get the mail, get on a plane, go to the
grocery store, plug something into a receptacle, anything.

OK but if you are injured and need help who pays?
1) If you are in a car accident you pay car insurance for just
such a
mishap. So in reality you pay.

EMS and fire services are payed by my tax obligations.

2) If you go outside to get the mail, slip, and fall you have home
owners insurance or medical insurance. So in reality you pay.

EMS and fire services are paid by my tax obligations.

3) If you slip and fall in the grocery store - well this is a little
tricky but either your insurance or their insurance will pay. If it is
their insurance - you pay because they charge you a little more on
the price
of food for their premiums.

EMS and fire services, again, are paid by my tax obligations.

guess again, you and your insurance company will be billed for EMS and
Fire Services.
Around here, they even bill for police response to car accidents if they
are not a resident of the municipality.

Detroit. Enough said.

In your county and city, you have to pay for both EMS and Fire Services.
enough said.

Taxes only.

basskisser wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
basskisser wrote:
Animal05 wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:

basskisser wrote:

Rick wrote:

"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

Stanley Barthfarkle wrote:

I agree. If folks put themselves in harms way intentionally and end
up
needing rescue they should pay the bill. But that should not
stop the
effort to save a human life.
I don't know about you, but around here we pay taxes just for those
things. You are putting yourself in harms way every time your furnace
turns on, risk of fire, you know. You are putting yourself in
harms way
when you go outside and get your mail, you are always at some sort of
risk. So, again in these parts we pay taxes for fire departments,
emergency services and such.
Not the same. Intentionally putting oneself at undue risk is not
the same
as
everyday going-about-your-life risks. (Unless you're a whiny ****bag
"everyone should pay for my mistakes and welfare"
run-the-****ing-country-into-the-ground and
sue-everyone-that-has-any-money
Socialist, I guess)

Need a rescue because you were in an auto accident? Sure thing.
Need a rescue because you were going 110 mph trying to drag race or
outrun
the police? Not on my tax bill, pal.

Need a rescue because your pleasure boat ran aground or ran out of
gas?
No
problem.
Need a rescue because you ran through the "graveyard" around Tierra
Del
Forego during the stormy season while trying to set a world record?
Sure
thing- here's your itemized rescue bill.
You are intentionally putting yourself in harms way every time you get
in your car, go outside to get the mail, get on a plane, go to the
grocery store, plug something into a receptacle, anything.

OK but if you are injured and need help who pays?
1) If you are in a car accident you pay car insurance for just
such a
mishap. So in reality you pay.
EMS and fire services are payed by my tax obligations.

2) If you go outside to get the mail, slip, and fall you have home
owners insurance or medical insurance. So in reality you pay.
EMS and fire services are paid by my tax obligations.

3) If you slip and fall in the grocery store - well this is a little
tricky but either your insurance or their insurance will pay. If it is
their insurance - you pay because they charge you a little more on
the price
of food for their premiums.
EMS and fire services, again, are paid by my tax obligations.

guess again, you and your insurance company will be billed for EMS and
Fire Services.
Around here, they even bill for police response to car accidents if they
are not a resident of the municipality.
Detroit. Enough said.

In your county and city, you have to pay for both EMS and Fire Services.
enough said.

Taxes only.

Guess again.

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
[trimmed]
Collection laws have drawn protest from critics who view rescue
operations as a tax-funded service, just like firefighting.

"It's almost an entitlement," said Golike of the National Search and
Rescue Association.

Green, the Grand County sheriff's sergeant, said sending a bill to a
family who lost a loved one is a "big gray area" that makes him
uncomfortable, "even though it has been done."

This is usually a hot topic around here after a big rescue
effort. There are always a few who gripe about their small
taxpayer contribution to such efforts while the volunteers
who man these operations are generally dead set against any
attempt to charge those being rescued.

I think the following article makes some good points.

http://tinyurl.com/yadsck

An excerpt:

The Oregon National Guard flew helicopters in the searches
for the climbers and James Kim and his family, lost in the
Southern Oregon mountains after Thanksgiving. Brig. Gen.
Mike Caldwell said it costs $2,890 an hour to fly a UH-60
Black Hawk, including fuel and maintenance, and $7,500 to
fly the larger CH-47 Chinook. On Mount Hood, the Black Hawks
flew 37 hours and the Chinooks flew 15. But nobody gets
billed for that, Caldwell said.

"From a practical standpoint, we're budgeted for those
hours," he said. "Those flight hours would have been flown
anyway in training. Instead we are able to get our people in
a real-world environment."

-rick-

I think the following article makes some good points.

http://tinyurl.com/yadsck

An excerpt:

The Oregon National Guard flew helicopters in the searches for the
climbers and James Kim and his family, lost in the Southern Oregon
mountains after Thanksgiving. Brig. Gen. Mike Caldwell said it costs
$2,890 an hour to fly a UH-60 Black Hawk, including fuel and maintenance,
and $7,500 to fly the larger CH-47 Chinook. On Mount Hood, the Black Hawks
flew 37 hours and the Chinooks flew 15. But nobody gets billed for that,
Caldwell said.

"From a practical standpoint, we're budgeted for those hours," he said.
"Those flight hours would have been flown anyway in training. Instead we
are able to get our people in a real-world environment."


Which is why common sense should always prevail, and why less laws are a
good thing, rather than more laws. If they were going to burn those hours
anyway, this should be factored in.

I'm for billing adventure seekers for rescues- I'm also for using common
sense in doing so.

"Stanley Barthfarkle" wrote in message
. net...

I think the following article makes some good points.

http://tinyurl.com/yadsck

An excerpt:

The Oregon National Guard flew helicopters in the searches for the
climbers and James Kim and his family, lost in the Southern Oregon
mountains after Thanksgiving. Brig. Gen. Mike Caldwell said it costs
$2,890 an hour to fly a UH-60 Black Hawk, including fuel and maintenance,
and $7,500 to fly the larger CH-47 Chinook. On Mount Hood, the Black
Hawks flew 37 hours and the Chinooks flew 15. But nobody gets billed for
that, Caldwell said.

"From a practical standpoint, we're budgeted for those hours," he said.
"Those flight hours would have been flown anyway in training. Instead we
are able to get our people in a real-world environment."


Which is why common sense should always prevail, and why less laws are a
good thing, rather than more laws. If they were going to burn those hours
anyway, this should be factored in.

I'm for billing adventure seekers for rescues- I'm also for using common
sense in doing so.


Why not have the climbers - hikers buy an insurance policy before the climb.
I am sure that thousands climb and hike without problems so the relative
cost should be quite low. And if they rescue and don't charge it would be
even lower.

Somehow rescuers should not have to go into their own pocket because someone
wants to climb in December and has limited vacation to wait for good
weather.

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
basskisser wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
basskisser wrote:
Animal05 wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:

basskisser wrote:

Rick wrote:

"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

Stanley Barthfarkle wrote:

I agree. If folks put themselves in harms way intentionally and end
up
needing rescue they should pay the bill. But that should not
stop the
effort to save a human life.
I don't know about you, but around here we pay taxes just for those
things. You are putting yourself in harms way every time your furnace
turns on, risk of fire, you know. You are putting yourself in
harms way
when you go outside and get your mail, you are always at some sort of
risk. So, again in these parts we pay taxes for fire departments,
emergency services and such.
Not the same. Intentionally putting oneself at undue risk is not
the same
as
everyday going-about-your-life risks. (Unless you're a whiny ****bag
"everyone should pay for my mistakes and welfare"
run-the-****ing-country-into-the-ground and
sue-everyone-that-has-any-money
Socialist, I guess)

Need a rescue because you were in an auto accident? Sure thing.
Need a rescue because you were going 110 mph trying to drag race or
outrun
the police? Not on my tax bill, pal.

Need a rescue because your pleasure boat ran aground or ran out of
gas?
No
problem.
Need a rescue because you ran through the "graveyard" around Tierra
Del
Forego during the stormy season while trying to set a world record?
Sure
thing- here's your itemized rescue bill.
You are intentionally putting yourself in harms way every time you get
in your car, go outside to get the mail, get on a plane, go to the
grocery store, plug something into a receptacle, anything.

OK but if you are injured and need help who pays?
1) If you are in a car accident you pay car insurance for just
such a
mishap. So in reality you pay.
EMS and fire services are payed by my tax obligations.

2) If you go outside to get the mail, slip, and fall you have home
owners insurance or medical insurance. So in reality you pay.
EMS and fire services are paid by my tax obligations.

3) If you slip and fall in the grocery store - well this is a little
tricky but either your insurance or their insurance will pay. If it is
their insurance - you pay because they charge you a little more on
the price
of food for their premiums.
EMS and fire services, again, are paid by my tax obligations.

guess again, you and your insurance company will be billed for EMS and
Fire Services.
Around here, they even bill for police response to car accidents if they
are not a resident of the municipality.
Detroit. Enough said.

In your county and city, you have to pay for both EMS and Fire Services.
enough said.

Taxes only.

Guess again.

I don't have to guess. I live here, I've used both services, and I know
how OUR system works.

"Rick" wrote in message
...

"Stanley Barthfarkle" wrote in message
. net...

I think the following article makes some good points.

http://tinyurl.com/yadsck

An excerpt:

The Oregon National Guard flew helicopters in the searches for the
climbers and James Kim and his family, lost in the Southern Oregon
mountains after Thanksgiving. Brig. Gen. Mike Caldwell said it costs
$2,890 an hour to fly a UH-60 Black Hawk, including fuel and
maintenance, and $7,500 to fly the larger CH-47 Chinook. On Mount Hood,
the Black Hawks flew 37 hours and the Chinooks flew 15. But nobody gets
billed for that, Caldwell said.

"From a practical standpoint, we're budgeted for those hours," he said.
"Those flight hours would have been flown anyway in training. Instead we
are able to get our people in a real-world environment."


Which is why common sense should always prevail, and why less laws are a
good thing, rather than more laws. If they were going to burn those hours
anyway, this should be factored in.

I'm for billing adventure seekers for rescues- I'm also for using common
sense in doing so.


Why not have the climbers - hikers buy an insurance policy before the
climb. I am sure that thousands climb and hike without problems so the
relative cost should be quite low. And if they rescue and don't charge it
would be even lower.

Somehow rescuers should not have to go into their own pocket because
someone wants to climb in December and has limited vacation to wait for
good weather.


Agreed 100%. Personal responsibility.