"Calif Bill" wrote in message
nk.net...

"comadreja" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Nick Hull wrote:
Nancy Rudins wrote:


There is never closure to losing a family member to murder. I've
read
of cases in which the family of a murder victim did not want capital
punishment for the murderer. The family of Ted Bundy's victims are
still grieving for their loss. His execution did not bring "closure"
to the loss.

It's fine with me if the victim and her family don't want capital
punishment, as long as I don't have to feed, cloth, shelter and guard
the perp, and as long as the perp can NEVER escape.

You are paying much, much more for appeals to both the State and
Federal Court for a Capital Punishment case than paying for the upkeep
and cost for someone with LWOP. The appellate reviews, the State paid
attorneys for the defendant, State Commission hearings etc. etc. etc.

http://janda.org/c10/statisticsnews/NoDeathPenalty.htm

-c

http://www.deathpenalty.org/index.ph...cost&menu=1%22

Main reason I am against the death penalty. . . $$$$$$$$. Rare that we
execute someone relative to the amount on death row and all the extra
costs
related to both the trial and all the appeals afterward.


Which is why I said the appeals process is a farce for somebody like Deleon,
or Charles Ng, or Richard Allen Davis, or so many MANY of those convicted of
these atrocious crimes. Crimes where *guilt* is not in doubt what so ever.
And where we all saw the *fair trial* process.


td

In article ,
"tiny dancer" wrote:

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
nk.net...

"comadreja" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Nick Hull wrote:
Nancy Rudins wrote:


There is never closure to losing a family member to murder. I've
read
of cases in which the family of a murder victim did not want capital
punishment for the murderer. The family of Ted Bundy's victims are
still grieving for their loss. His execution did not bring "closure"
to the loss.

It's fine with me if the victim and her family don't want capital
punishment, as long as I don't have to feed, cloth, shelter and guard
the perp, and as long as the perp can NEVER escape.

You are paying much, much more for appeals to both the State and
Federal Court for a Capital Punishment case than paying for the upkeep
and cost for someone with LWOP. The appellate reviews, the State paid
attorneys for the defendant, State Commission hearings etc. etc. etc.

http://janda.org/c10/statisticsnews/NoDeathPenalty.htm

-c

http://www.deathpenalty.org/index.ph...cost&menu=1%22

Main reason I am against the death penalty. . . $$$$$$$$. Rare that we
execute someone relative to the amount on death row and all the extra
costs
related to both the trial and all the appeals afterward.


Which is why I said the appeals process is a farce for somebody like Deleon,
or Charles Ng, or Richard Allen Davis, or so many MANY of those convicted of
these atrocious crimes. Crimes where *guilt* is not in doubt what so ever.
And where we all saw the *fair trial* process.

There is no reason why the death penalty should be expensive, except for
the lawyers who profit. If a person is sentenced to death, just take
him out of the courthouse and waste him. I would prefer selling his
organs and giving the money to the victim's family.

Certainly the system is not perfect and some innocent people will be
killed, but nothing in this world is perfect. Should we outlaw marriage
because half of them fail? The answer to bad verdicts is not endless
appeals but to improve the system to reduce bad verdicts. A court
should be a level playing field; if the same govt pays the judge, jurors
and prosecutor can you expect acquital if you lack a $million lawyer?
Separation of powers is the answer, our founding fathers knew it but
failed to implement it. See my web page for details.

--
Free men own guns - www.geocities/CapitolHill/5357/

In article ,
says...
In article ,
"tiny dancer" wrote:

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
nk.net...

"comadreja" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Nick Hull wrote:
Nancy Rudins wrote:


There is never closure to losing a family member to murder. I've
read
of cases in which the family of a murder victim did not want capital
punishment for the murderer. The family of Ted Bundy's victims are
still grieving for their loss. His execution did not bring "closure"
to the loss.

It's fine with me if the victim and her family don't want capital
punishment, as long as I don't have to feed, cloth, shelter and guard
the perp, and as long as the perp can NEVER escape.

You are paying much, much more for appeals to both the State and
Federal Court for a Capital Punishment case than paying for the upkeep
and cost for someone with LWOP. The appellate reviews, the State paid
attorneys for the defendant, State Commission hearings etc. etc. etc.

http://janda.org/c10/statisticsnews/NoDeathPenalty.htm

-c

http://www.deathpenalty.org/index.ph...cost&menu=1%22

Main reason I am against the death penalty. . . $$$$$$$$. Rare that we
execute someone relative to the amount on death row and all the extra
costs
related to both the trial and all the appeals afterward.


Which is why I said the appeals process is a farce for somebody like Deleon,
or Charles Ng, or Richard Allen Davis, or so many MANY of those convicted of
these atrocious crimes. Crimes where *guilt* is not in doubt what so ever.
And where we all saw the *fair trial* process.

There is no reason why the death penalty should be expensive, except for
the lawyers who profit. If a person is sentenced to death, just take
him out of the courthouse and waste him. I would prefer selling his
organs and giving the money to the victim's family.

Move to China, where the particular fitness and need for a prisoner's
body parts often makes for a speedy execution.



Certainly the system is not perfect and some innocent people will be
killed, but nothing in this world is perfect. Should we outlaw marriage
because half of them fail?

Does marriage involve killing? Are the effects as irreversible as
death?


The answer to bad verdicts is not endless
appeals but to improve the system to reduce bad verdicts. A court
should be a level playing field; if the same govt pays the judge, jurors
and prosecutor can you expect acquital if you lack a $million lawyer?
Separation of powers is the answer, our founding fathers knew it but
failed to implement it. See my web page for details.

I don't know WTF you're trying to say here.

The disproportionate number of white perps, who get lighter sentences
for the same crimes, on death row, immediately makes the DP highly
suspect. It's pure circus for the masses, that's all.

Our ominous and powerful state shouldn't be allowed to kill people.
It's amazing that the same people who want less state controls will hand
over this power to their ultimate in corruption. How can you trust them
to kill the right person? What, is the State suddenly virtuous when it
allows an execution?

No matter how much a person deserves death (and there are many who do),
I'm not willing to give any government the power to make that decision.

bel

"Phoenix" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
In article ,
"tiny dancer" wrote:

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
nk.net...

"comadreja" wrote in message
...
In article
,
Nick Hull wrote:
Nancy Rudins wrote:


There is never closure to losing a family member to murder.
I've
read
of cases in which the family of a murder victim did not want
capital
punishment for the murderer. The family of Ted Bundy's victims
are
still grieving for their loss. His execution did not bring
"closure"
to the loss.

It's fine with me if the victim and her family don't want capital
punishment, as long as I don't have to feed, cloth, shelter and
guard
the perp, and as long as the perp can NEVER escape.

You are paying much, much more for appeals to both the State and
Federal Court for a Capital Punishment case than paying for the
upkeep
and cost for someone with LWOP. The appellate reviews, the State
paid
attorneys for the defendant, State Commission hearings etc. etc.
etc.

http://janda.org/c10/statisticsnews/NoDeathPenalty.htm

-c

http://www.deathpenalty.org/index.ph...cost&menu=1%22

Main reason I am against the death penalty. . . $$$$$$$$. Rare that
we
execute someone relative to the amount on death row and all the extra
costs
related to both the trial and all the appeals afterward.


Which is why I said the appeals process is a farce for somebody like
Deleon,
or Charles Ng, or Richard Allen Davis, or so many MANY of those
convicted of
these atrocious crimes. Crimes where *guilt* is not in doubt what so
ever.
And where we all saw the *fair trial* process.

There is no reason why the death penalty should be expensive, except for
the lawyers who profit. If a person is sentenced to death, just take
him out of the courthouse and waste him. I would prefer selling his
organs and giving the money to the victim's family.

Move to China, where the particular fitness and need for a prisoner's
body parts often makes for a speedy execution.



Certainly the system is not perfect and some innocent people will be
killed, but nothing in this world is perfect. Should we outlaw marriage
because half of them fail?

Does marriage involve killing? Are the effects as irreversible as
death?


The answer to bad verdicts is not endless
appeals but to improve the system to reduce bad verdicts. A court
should be a level playing field; if the same govt pays the judge, jurors
and prosecutor can you expect acquital if you lack a $million lawyer?
Separation of powers is the answer, our founding fathers knew it but
failed to implement it. See my web page for details.

I don't know WTF you're trying to say here.

The disproportionate number of white perps, who get lighter sentences
for the same crimes, on death row, immediately makes the DP highly
suspect. It's pure circus for the masses, that's all.

Our ominous and powerful state shouldn't be allowed to kill people.
It's amazing that the same people who want less state controls will hand
over this power to their ultimate in corruption. How can you trust them
to kill the right person? What, is the State suddenly virtuous when it
allows an execution?

No matter how much a person deserves death (and there are many who do),
I'm not willing to give any government the power to make that decision.

Yep, and in the USA the government doesn't have that power. Only the jury
decides if they receive a death sentence or not.

In article ,
says...

"Phoenix" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
In article ,
"tiny dancer" wrote:

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
nk.net...

"comadreja" wrote in message
...
In article
,
Nick Hull wrote:
Nancy Rudins wrote:


There is never closure to losing a family member to murder.
I've
read
of cases in which the family of a murder victim did not want
capital
punishment for the murderer. The family of Ted Bundy's victims
are
still grieving for their loss. His execution did not bring
"closure"
to the loss.

It's fine with me if the victim and her family don't want capital
punishment, as long as I don't have to feed, cloth, shelter and
guard
the perp, and as long as the perp can NEVER escape.

You are paying much, much more for appeals to both the State and
Federal Court for a Capital Punishment case than paying for the
upkeep
and cost for someone with LWOP. The appellate reviews, the State
paid
attorneys for the defendant, State Commission hearings etc. etc.
etc.

http://janda.org/c10/statisticsnews/NoDeathPenalty.htm

-c

http://www.deathpenalty.org/index.ph...cost&menu=1%22

Main reason I am against the death penalty. . . $$$$$$$$. Rare that
we
execute someone relative to the amount on death row and all the extra
costs
related to both the trial and all the appeals afterward.


Which is why I said the appeals process is a farce for somebody like
Deleon,
or Charles Ng, or Richard Allen Davis, or so many MANY of those
convicted of
these atrocious crimes. Crimes where *guilt* is not in doubt what so
ever.
And where we all saw the *fair trial* process.

There is no reason why the death penalty should be expensive, except for
the lawyers who profit. If a person is sentenced to death, just take
him out of the courthouse and waste him. I would prefer selling his
organs and giving the money to the victim's family.

Move to China, where the particular fitness and need for a prisoner's
body parts often makes for a speedy execution.



Certainly the system is not perfect and some innocent people will be
killed, but nothing in this world is perfect. Should we outlaw marriage
because half of them fail?

Does marriage involve killing? Are the effects as irreversible as
death?


The answer to bad verdicts is not endless
appeals but to improve the system to reduce bad verdicts. A court
should be a level playing field; if the same govt pays the judge, jurors
and prosecutor can you expect acquital if you lack a $million lawyer?
Separation of powers is the answer, our founding fathers knew it but
failed to implement it. See my web page for details.

I don't know WTF you're trying to say here.

The disproportionate number of white perps, who get lighter sentences
for the same crimes, on death row, immediately makes the DP highly
suspect. It's pure circus for the masses, that's all.

Our ominous and powerful state shouldn't be allowed to kill people.
It's amazing that the same people who want less state controls will hand
over this power to their ultimate in corruption. How can you trust them
to kill the right person? What, is the State suddenly virtuous when it
allows an execution?

No matter how much a person deserves death (and there are many who do),
I'm not willing to give any government the power to make that decision.

Yep, and in the USA the government doesn't have that power. Only the jury
decides if they receive a death sentence or not.

Uh, no, the state and federal governments are consulted on appeal and
every death row inmate files for a stay of execution or a reprieve from
multiple sources who are NOT juries.

The State decides if the DP is on the table at trial. The State decides
which attorney indigent perps will get to represent them. The officers
of the State (not juries) review appeals.

The Government sure as **** has power over the DP. And they use it
shamelessly to prove what a great old job they are doing for you and me.

bel

In article ,
Phoenix wrote:

No matter how much a person deserves death (and there are many who do),
I'm not willing to give any government the power to make that decision.

Yep, and in the USA the government doesn't have that power. Only the jury
decides if they receive a death sentence or not.

Uh, no, the state and federal governments are consulted on appeal and
every death row inmate files for a stay of execution or a reprieve from
multiple sources who are NOT juries.

But FIRST a jury must deliver the death verdict. IIRC there is no judge
that can initiate a death penalty, he can only read the jury verdict.

--
Free men own guns - www.geocities/CapitolHill/5357/

"Phoenix" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

"Phoenix" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
In article ,
"tiny dancer" wrote:

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
nk.net...

"comadreja" wrote in message
...
In article
,
Nick Hull wrote:
Nancy Rudins wrote:


There is never closure to losing a family member to murder.
I've
read
of cases in which the family of a murder victim did not want
capital
punishment for the murderer. The family of Ted Bundy's
victims
are
still grieving for their loss. His execution did not bring
"closure"
to the loss.

It's fine with me if the victim and her family don't want
capital
punishment, as long as I don't have to feed, cloth, shelter and
guard
the perp, and as long as the perp can NEVER escape.

You are paying much, much more for appeals to both the State
and
Federal Court for a Capital Punishment case than paying for the
upkeep
and cost for someone with LWOP. The appellate reviews, the State
paid
attorneys for the defendant, State Commission hearings etc.
etc.
etc.

http://janda.org/c10/statisticsnews/NoDeathPenalty.htm

-c

http://www.deathpenalty.org/index.ph...cost&menu=1%22

Main reason I am against the death penalty. . . $$$$$$$$. Rare
that
we
execute someone relative to the amount on death row and all the
extra
costs
related to both the trial and all the appeals afterward.


Which is why I said the appeals process is a farce for somebody like
Deleon,
or Charles Ng, or Richard Allen Davis, or so many MANY of those
convicted of
these atrocious crimes. Crimes where *guilt* is not in doubt what
so
ever.
And where we all saw the *fair trial* process.

There is no reason why the death penalty should be expensive, except
for
the lawyers who profit. If a person is sentenced to death, just take
him out of the courthouse and waste him. I would prefer selling his
organs and giving the money to the victim's family.

Move to China, where the particular fitness and need for a prisoner's
body parts often makes for a speedy execution.



Certainly the system is not perfect and some innocent people will be
killed, but nothing in this world is perfect. Should we outlaw
marriage
because half of them fail?

Does marriage involve killing? Are the effects as irreversible as
death?


The answer to bad verdicts is not endless
appeals but to improve the system to reduce bad verdicts. A court
should be a level playing field; if the same govt pays the judge,
jurors
and prosecutor can you expect acquital if you lack a $million lawyer?
Separation of powers is the answer, our founding fathers knew it but
failed to implement it. See my web page for details.

I don't know WTF you're trying to say here.

The disproportionate number of white perps, who get lighter sentences
for the same crimes, on death row, immediately makes the DP highly
suspect. It's pure circus for the masses, that's all.

Our ominous and powerful state shouldn't be allowed to kill people.
It's amazing that the same people who want less state controls will
hand
over this power to their ultimate in corruption. How can you trust
them
to kill the right person? What, is the State suddenly virtuous when it
allows an execution?

No matter how much a person deserves death (and there are many who do),
I'm not willing to give any government the power to make that decision.

Yep, and in the USA the government doesn't have that power. Only the jury
decides if they receive a death sentence or not.

Uh, no, the state and federal governments are consulted on appeal and
every death row inmate files for a stay of execution or a reprieve from
multiple sources who are NOT juries.

Yep, they remove, delay, or negate a death penality they do NOT impose it.

The State decides if the DP is on the table at trial.

True. However it is the decision of the jury that imposes it and none other.


The State decides
which attorney indigent perps will get to represent them.

Unless the defendant cares to obtain his own attorney, then they can have
anyone that will take their case.

The officers
of the State (not juries) review appeals.

Yep, and all they can do is overturn the DP, they can not impose it.

The Government sure as **** has power over the DP. And they use it
shamelessly to prove what a great old job they are doing for you and me.

And in the end the jury and the jury alone decides if the DP shall be
imposed. As such the government does NOT have that power. The jury does, and
only the jury.