Jeff Rigby wrote:

Not that weak. If you take a distilled water and left it open pH goes
down from 7 to about 5.7 - just because of the presence of dissolved
carbon dioxide.

PH changes from 7, in other words from 5-9 in distilled water take very
little acid or base, in other words it's a very weak acid or base.

Remember that this change takes place in the presence of only about 380
ppmv of CO2 in the air. Increase amount of CO2 in the atmosphere and
the change will be higher. That doesn't mean carbonic acid is not a
weak one, you just don't need a strong acid to change pH when you have
solution close to pH 7.

Borek
--
http://www.chembuddy.com
http://www.ph-meter.info

basskisser wrote:

Dan wrote:

basskisser wrote:


NOYB wrote:


"basskisser" wrote in message
egroups.com...



.... accumulation of carbon dioxide, methane and other heat-trapping
greenhouse gases in the atmosphere - byproducts of power plants,
automobiles and other fossil fuel burners.

Carbon dioxide and methane? I thought those were products of
oxygen-breathing mammals and flatuating cows.


I already predicted what you'd say.


Cite?


Infatuation....
Infatuation....
It's making Dan crazy....
It's driving him CRAAAAZY.......

Every single thread........
Every single post I make.....
Dan's right there trying to smell my ass!


Now that's CHILDISH!!

"Dan" wrote in message
nk.net...
basskisser wrote:

Dan wrote:

basskisser wrote:


NOYB wrote:


"basskisser" wrote in message
legroups.com...



.... accumulation of carbon dioxide, methane and other heat-trapping
greenhouse gases in the atmosphere - byproducts of power plants,
automobiles and other fossil fuel burners.

Carbon dioxide and methane? I thought those were products of
oxygen-breathing mammals and flatuating cows.


I already predicted what you'd say.


Cite?


Infatuation....
Infatuation....
It's making Dan crazy....
It's driving him CRAAAAZY.......

Every single thread........
Every single post I make.....
Dan's right there trying to smell my ass!


Now that's CHILDISH!!

I have the idiot KF'd.. I suspect he posts comments to my posts here on a
regular basis. Perhaps you can confirm this.

If my hunch is correct, he is living in a glass house. ;-)

wrote in message
oups.com...
Jeff Rigby wrote:

Not that weak. If you take a distilled water and left it open pH goes
down from 7 to about 5.7 - just because of the presence of dissolved
carbon dioxide.

PH changes from 7, in other words from 5-9 in distilled water take very
little acid or base, in other words it's a very weak acid or base.

Remember that this change takes place in the presence of only about 380
ppmv of CO2 in the air. Increase amount of CO2 in the atmosphere and
the change will be higher. That doesn't mean carbonic acid is not a
weak one, you just don't need a strong acid to change pH when you have
solution close to pH 7.

Borek
--
http://www.chembuddy.com
http://www.ph-meter.info

That's like saying water is a solvent and it dissolves most compounds
because the hydrogen and oxygen molecule's geometry lends itself to tearing
apart most compounds. We should be concerned with water too. In fact it's
not the carbon dioxide that creates the acid, it's water. Without water
carbon dioxide is not an acid.

I'm not disagreeing with your comments, I find them VERY enlightening.
Following is typical household chemicals and their Ph ranking:

1 Stomach Fluids
2 Lemon Juice
3 Vinegar
4 Tomatoes
5 Coffee
6 Milk
7 Pure Water
8 Blood
9 Baking Soda
10 Borax
11 Rolaids, Tums
12 Household Ammonia
13 Bleach
14 Lye

Jeff Rigby wrote:

Not that weak. If you take a distilled water and left it open pH goes
down from 7 to about 5.7 - just because of the presence of dissolved
carbon dioxide.

PH changes from 7, in other words from 5-9 in distilled water take very
little acid or base, in other words it's a very weak acid or base.

Remember that this change takes place in the presence of only about 380
ppmv of CO2 in the air. Increase amount of CO2 in the atmosphere and
the change will be higher. That doesn't mean carbonic acid is not a
weak one, you just don't need a strong acid to change pH when you have
solution close to pH 7.

That's like saying water is a solvent and it dissolves most compounds
because the hydrogen and oxygen molecule's geometry lends itself to tearing
apart most compounds. We should be concerned with water too. In fact it's
not the carbon dioxide that creates the acid, it's water. Without water
carbon dioxide is not an acid.

Water dissociates creating the same amounts of H+ and OH- ions. First
are connected with solution acidity, the latter with solution basicity.
Thus water is acidic and basic - to the same extent - at the same time.
That's why pure water is neutral. Almost every substance you can
dissolve will change pH of the solution, just sometimes this change is
unmeasurable. CO2 is so called acid anhdyride (just like SO3, P2O5 or
N2O5 oxides) - it reacts with water to create carbonic acid, which in
turns dissociate and acidifies the solution. Other anhydrides listed
create stable acids (known as strong mineral acids - sulfuris, nitric
and phosphoric). Trick is, carbonic acid is very unstable, thus it
concentration in water is very low, much lower than the concentration
of CO2. In fact there are papers that suggest that carbonic acid is
much stronger than it is commonly believed, just - as its concentration
is very low - measurable effect (ie pH change) is low. Trick is, if you
want to calculate pH of CO2 saturated solution you have to deal with at
least two reactions - first being carbonic acid creation, second its
dissociation. You know only how much CO2 is present and what is
solution pH - these are controllable/measurable. But the "internal
workings" - ie carbonic acid creation/carbonic acid dissociation - are
seen as one step with one equilibrium constant which can not be split
without additional data.

But that's completely OT here

I'm not disagreeing with your comments, I find them VERY enlightening.
Following is typical household chemicals and their Ph ranking:

Note: pH, not Ph.

1 Stomach Fluids
2 Lemon Juice
3 Vinegar
4 Tomatoes
5 Coffee
6 Milk
7 Pure Water
8 Blood
9 Baking Soda
10 Borax
11 Rolaids, Tums
12 Household Ammonia
13 Bleach
14 Lye

Yup. Classical list shown whenever pH scale is discussed:
http://www.chembuddy.com/?left=pH-ca...right=pH-scale
http://www.ph-meter.info/pH-scale
also wiki and many *.edu sites.

and so on I would just change blood pH to 7.4, as 8 is misleading.
Other solutions have pH that can vary, blood pH doesn't change much
(see my other post about panting somewhere in this thread).

Borek
--
http://www.chembuddy.com
http://www.ph-meter.info

wrote in message
oups.com...
Jeff Rigby wrote:

Not that weak. If you take a distilled water and left it open pH
goes
down from 7 to about 5.7 - just because of the presence of dissolved
carbon dioxide.

PH changes from 7, in other words from 5-9 in distilled water take
very
little acid or base, in other words it's a very weak acid or base.

Remember that this change takes place in the presence of only about 380
ppmv of CO2 in the air. Increase amount of CO2 in the atmosphere and
the change will be higher. That doesn't mean carbonic acid is not a
weak one, you just don't need a strong acid to change pH when you have
solution close to pH 7.

That's like saying water is a solvent and it dissolves most compounds
because the hydrogen and oxygen molecule's geometry lends itself to
tearing
apart most compounds. We should be concerned with water too. In fact
it's
not the carbon dioxide that creates the acid, it's water. Without water
carbon dioxide is not an acid.

Water dissociates creating the same amounts of H+ and OH- ions. First
are connected with solution acidity, the latter with solution basicity.
Thus water is acidic and basic - to the same extent - at the same time.
That's why pure water is neutral.

I understood that water does NOT disassociate, it's a very stable and strong
bond, EXTREMELY strong bond, it's equalibrium reaction has very few
disassocited ions. It's geometry, were oxygen and hydorgen atoms are placed
in the molecule allow the water moleule to have a strong charge at each end
where the oxygen has a - charge and the Hydrogen has + charge. It ionizes
molecules because of this GEOMETRY not because water disassociates. It's
because of this geometry that water has unique properties when frozen. Cold
water sinks but ice floats!.

Pure water can not carry a charge! Try for yourself, put two electrodes in
distilled water and try to run a current thru water, you won't get one
untill you introduce a compound that can be ionized to carry the current.
If pure water can not carry a charge then it is not disassociated. You can
crack the water molecule with enough voltage but it doesn't ionize it cracks
and releases hydrogen gas and oxygen gas.

Jeff Rigby wrote:

Water dissociates creating the same amounts of H+ and OH- ions. First
are connected with solution acidity, the latter with solution basicity.
Thus water is acidic and basic - to the same extent - at the same time.
That's why pure water is neutral.

I understood that water does NOT disassociate, it's a very stable and strong
bond, EXTREMELY strong bond, it's equalibrium reaction has very few
disassocited ions.

H2O - H+ + OH-

You are right that equilibrium for this reaction is far to the left -
ie water is dissociated only slightly, but nonetheless it is
dissociated and it can't be neglected whenever we are talking about pH
of solutions, especially those close to the neutral. Note, that pH =
-log([H+]) - if pure water has pH = 7 there MUST be some free H+ ions
in the solution, and they come just from water autodissociation. If you
think that 10^-7 is so low concentration that it can be neglected,
think about pH indicators - some of them change color just because
concentration of H+ changes from 10^-7 to 10^-8 mol/L. So these pretty
small changes in concentrations can produce large effects. Which is -
BTW - one of the reasons why some people want to precisely monitor pH
of oceans

It's geometry, were oxygen and hydorgen atoms are placed
in the molecule allow the water moleule to have a strong charge at each end
where the oxygen has a - charge and the Hydrogen has + charge.

Yep, water molecule is a dipole.

It ionizes molecules because of this GEOMETRY not because water disassociates.

These are two completely different things. Autodissociation of water is
one thing, dissociation of salts - induced by water properties - is
second thing. Don't mix them.

Pure water can not carry a charge! Try for yourself, put two electrodes in
distilled water and try to run a current thru water, you won't get one
untill you introduce a compound that can be ionized to carry the current.
If pure water can not carry a charge then it is not disassociated. You can
crack the water molecule with enough voltage but it doesn't ionize it cracks
and releases hydrogen gas and oxygen gas.

Ultrapure water has very high resistivity, something like 18MOhm/cm,
that's right. But it doesn't mean it is not dissociating

Borek
--
http://www.chembuddy.com
http://www.ph-meter.info

"scbafreak via BoatKB.com" u25927@uwe wrote in message
news:690cec9d084bd@uwe...
yes, they had to find some other "threat"

I'm Curious. Who are "They" and what could "They" possibly have to gain
from making this stuff up?

Yes, lets list who they are and maybe we can find out why they are biased
against developing nations.
--
Message posted via http://www.boatkb.com