http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...91b9f4a?hl=en&

While the troops were making the dash to Baghdad and millions marched
for peace...

Sorry Chuck, I can't help myself.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------.

We are left with only four options for the end game.

To start with: A non-option is that peace and democracy will spring
into
full flower throughout the country. The region is rife with clan
rivalries.
There are three major factions (Kurds, Sunnis, Shiites) that will have
to
have things their way or they will go to war to make things right. The
only
reason that they are not at each other's throat right now is the
powerful
hand of Saddam. (See torture and Baath party goon squads above) Remove
that
control and you are unleashing a full-fledged civil war. Whatever
solution
put in place will have to deal with this problem. It will take at least
two
generation of nation building to get a functional democracy running
properly.

So - what can work?

1) America assumes the role of a foreign occupier. This *is* the stated
goal
of the white house. Dress it up any way you want - call it a civilian
panel
if it makes you feel any better. At the end of the day, the steel in
the
velvet glove is the American military. The administration figures that
they
will throw around a bunch of money and sprinkle the pixie dust of free
elections and everything will come out OK. Did I mention that this will
take
a *lot* of money? Even then, this will not work for very long. Internal
friction between the different populations will prevent a successful
government. Look to Ireland to see some of the problems. Iraq will be
much
worse. From the day the war ends the question will start to rise - when
are
you leaving? I fear that we will not be a good guest; you will see that
we
greatly overstay our welcome. Soon we will see nightly stories of Iraqi
protest. These will be side by side with reports of deaths among the
peacekeeping forces. Expect gruesome terrorist attacks both at home
and
abroad. In the process the conservative party will pay a heavy price
for
starting this ill-fated adventure. We will be forced to look for other
solution both at home and abroad. Liberals will smirk and say, "I told
you
so!"

wrote in message
ups.com...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...91b9f4a?hl=en&

Liberals will smirk and say, "I told you so!"


Actually, you don't know ANYBODY who get pleasure from saying "I told you
so" with regard to this war. You might think you do, but you don't.

wrote:


Sorry Chuck, I can't help myself.

No big deal, but there's a group called alt.politics.bush where your
post might be better received. They might think you were a bit strange
over there, however, if you posted questions about winterizing your
boat or recounted your last fishing trip.

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ups.com...

wrote:


Sorry Chuck, I can't help myself.

No big deal, but there's a group called alt.politics.bush where your
post might be better received. They might think you were a bit strange
over there, however, if you posted questions about winterizing your
boat or recounted your last fishing trip.


Why does Bruegger's run out of the most popular bagels by 9:00 AM every day?
Why don't they make more of them, instead of making so many of the kind that
always end up in the discounted "this morning's nasty flavors please buy us"
bags by the end of the day?

Why ask why?

wrote in message
ups.com...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...91b9f4a?hl=en&
Expect gruesome terrorist attacks both at home
and
abroad.


Most of what you predicted was already in Bush 41 and Scowcroft's book about
why they didn't go into Baghdad, so you don't get credit for it.

But it's important to note that you were wrong about the terrorist attacks
here in America.

"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...

wrote in message
ups.com...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...91b9f4a?hl=en&
Expect gruesome terrorist attacks both at home
and
abroad.


Most of what you predicted was already in Bush 41 and Scowcroft's book
about why they didn't go into Baghdad, so you don't get credit for it.

But it's important to note that you were wrong about the terrorist attacks
here in America.

It's important to note that you cannot draw any connection between our
presence in the Iraq, and the absence of attacks here.

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...

wrote in message
ups.com...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...91b9f4a?hl=en&
Expect gruesome terrorist attacks both at home
and
abroad.


Most of what you predicted was already in Bush 41 and Scowcroft's book
about why they didn't go into Baghdad, so you don't get credit for it.

But it's important to note that you were wrong about the terrorist
attacks here in America.

It's important to note that you cannot draw any connection between our
presence in the Iraq, and the absence of attacks here.

I didn't state that. I stated that the chicken littles who were so sure
that an invasion of Iraq would lead to a huge rise in US domestic terror
attacks were universally wrong.

I never read anything by either so I will just have to take your word
for it. I don't have a lot of time for anybody in the Reagan/Bush camp;
I am too busy paying taxes for debt service they stuck me with.

If Bush 41 had all the answer don't you suppose he could have shared a
bit of that wisdom with his son over a family gathering. I image it
going something something like this: Here's the butter - oh - the
neocons are giving you some bad advice about how the middle east will
react on Jacobian ideas - they have been thinking differently about
these questions for a thousand years. I'll pass on the broccoli - and
by the way - if you go into Iraq you will end up crippling the
conservative movement for a generation.

I got my experience by traveling in the area and talking to the people.

As far as the attacks, the people in Madrid and other European attack
targets may feel diferently. Domestic attacks? If I had to be wrong
about a single thing in a very long list - that it a pretty good one.
Let's hope our luck holds up as Al Qu'eda is claiming that they intend
to do us harm at home.

Mark Browne

NOYB wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...91b9f4a?hl=en&
Expect gruesome terrorist attacks both at home
and
abroad.


Most of what you predicted was already in Bush 41 and Scowcroft's book about
why they didn't go into Baghdad, so you don't get credit for it.

But it's important to note that you were wrong about the terrorist attacks
here in America.