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Oci-One Kanubi wrote:
Oci-One Kanubi wrote: Brian Nystrom wrote: Larry C wrote: The only real strong point of the ACA is instruction and safety. Their insurance program allows instructors protection that just isn't available commercially. And if you do have an ACA certified instructor, you have some clue to the level of competence that he has acquired. I would differ with that last statement somewhat, as I've paddled with an ACA "Open water" instructor who is uncomfortable in 2' seas, has no endurance and won't paddle within 50 yards of a rock, except when landing. How this person ever got their rating is beyond me, but I've heard of several similar situations. Brian, go to http://www.acanet.org/instruction/kayak_instruction.lasso and read the syllabi for the various ACA courses. There seem to be many stages of classes, especially in ocean kayak (which is essentially unknown territory for me, represented by all those articles in "Canoe & Kayak" and "Paddler" which I irritably skip). Recruiting volunteer instructors is always difficult, and most certified instructors (at least in the whitewater world) take the certification for volunteer activities, not to teach for pay[1]. Given that, and given that more certified instructors is good for the sport, as a whole, it makes sense to certify anyone who has mastered ***the specific skills (and any prerequisite skills, of course) covered in the course ***, and demonstrated the ability to actually teach those skills. Think of it as the "one-room schoolhouse" model, since, in the scope and scale of society that's kinda what our clubs are. The fourth-graders teach the first-graders to count. The sixth-graders teach the second-graders addition and subtraction. The seventh graders teach multiplication and division, the eighth-graders teach fractions. the 11th-graders teach geometry, and the 12-graders teach algebra. So, perhaps, in the progression of skills and classes set up by the ACA, the specific instructors you have observed are actually acting within the parameters of their certifications, even though they might be highly uncomfortable if asked to exceed those parameters. And always remember that, absent a few idiots who try to make a living by turning a recreational activity into a job, ours is essentially a VOLUNTEER activity and the standards are commensurately... uh, "flexible"? [1] this is a separate beef of mine: that I have to pay ACA an additional annual fee to retain my Swif****er Safety and Rescue certification... PAY for the privilege of giving away several perfectly good weekends to VOLUNTEER to teach something that we all hope every paddler will learn? How twisted is that? ACA oughta be giving FREE memberships to anyone who will take the trouble to become certified then give up the time to teach safety and rescue. -Richard, His Kanubic Travesty -- ================================================== ==================== Richard Hopley Winston-Salem, NC, USA . rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net . Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll . rhopley[at]wfubmc[dot]edu . OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters ================================================== ==================== Brian Nystrom wrote: Larry C wrote: The only real strong point of the ACA is instruction and safety. Their insurance program allows instructors protection that just isn't available commercially. And if you do have an ACA certified instructor, you have some clue to the level of competence that he has acquired. I would differ with that last statement somewhat, as I've paddled with an ACA "Open water" instructor who is uncomfortable in 2' seas, has no endurance and won't paddle within 50 yards of a rock, except when landing. How this person ever got their rating is beyond me, but I've heard of several similar situations. Brian, go to http://www.acanet.org/instruction/kayak_instruction.lasso and read the syllabi for the various ACA courses. There seem to be many stages of classes, especially in ocean kayak (which is essentially unknown territory for me, represented by all those articles in "Canoe & Kayak" and "Paddler" which I irritably skip). Recruiting volunteer instructors is always difficult, and most certified instructors (at least in the whitewater world) take the certification for volunteer activities, not to teach for pay[1]. Given that, and given that more certified instructors is good for the sport, as a whole, it makes sense to certify anyone who has mastered ***the specific skills (and any prerequisite skills, of course) covered in the course ***, and demonstrated the ability to actually teach those skills. Think of it as the "one-room schoolhouse" model, since, in the scope and scale of society that's kinda what our clubs are. The fourth-graders teach the first-graders to count. The sixth-graders teach the second-graders addition and subtraction. The seventh graders teach multiplication and division, the eighth-graders teach fractions. the 11th-graders teach geometry, and the 12-graders teach algebra. So, perhaps, in the progression of skills and classes set up by the ACA, the specific instructors you have observed are actually acting within the parameters of their certifications, even though they might be highly uncomfortable if asked to exceed those parameters. And always remember that, absent a few idiots who try to make a living by turning a recreational activity into a job, ours is essentially a VOLUNTEER activity and the standards are commensurately... uh, "flexible"? I agree with what you're saying with one exception; it seems to me that it's folly to "certify" people with marginal skills, as they may take that certification and try to use it to do things that they're not really qualified for. I absolutely agree that training is valuable and the more trained paddlers there are on the water, the better it is for the entire paddling community. That's one of the reasons that we don't require people who take our trip leader training course to actually lead trips. What we try to do is to teach people the necessary skills and lead them to a realistic evaluation of their abilities and deficiencies. We actively encourage people to go on to take other types of training. Our basic philosophy is that trained trip participants are nearly as important/beneficial as trained trip leaders. [1] this is a separate beef of mine: that I have to pay ACA an additional annual fee to retain my Swif****er Safety and Rescue certification... PAY for the privilege of giving away several perfectly good weekends to VOLUNTEER to teach something that we all hope every paddler will learn? How twisted is that? ACA oughta be giving FREE memberships to anyone who will take the trouble to become certified then give up the time to teach safety and rescue. I have some friends who are ACA coaches that share your annoyance. |
#2
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I'll have to disagree with this statement. From my experience, the
great majority of ACA certified instructors are "outdoor professionals", camp counselors, guides, heads of school outdoor programs, etc. I know that CCC has a very strong volunteer ACA training program, but outside of that I think you will find that most ACA instuctors have monetary reasons to maintain the training and the insurance. It's surprising how many of the SWR instructor candidates take the course and never teach. Larry Recruiting volunteer instructors is always difficult, and most certified instructors (at least in the whitewater world) take the certification for volunteer activities, not to teach for pay[1]. *Given that, and given that more certified instructors is good for the sport, as a whole, it makes sense to certify anyone who has mastered ***the specific skills (and any prerequisite skills, of course) covered in the course ***, and demonstrated the ability to actually teach those skills. [1] this is a separate beef of mine: that I have to pay ACA an additional annual fee to retain my Swif****er Safety and Rescue certification... PAY for the privilege of giving away several perfectly good weekends to VOLUNTEER to teach something that we all hope every paddler will learn? *How twisted is that? *ACA oughta be giving FREE memberships to anyone who will take the trouble to become certified then give up the time to teach safety and rescue. -Richard, His Kanubic Travesty -- ================================================== ==================== Richard Hopley * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Winston-Salem, NC, USA . * * * * * * * * * *rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net . * * Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll . * * * * * * * * * * rhopley[at]wfubmc[dot]edu . OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters ================================================== ==================== |
#3
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I never have understood the PA deal. Georgia Canoeing Association is an
affilitate. We use ACA insurance for races and instruction, and our trips are waivered Common Adventurer events with a "Trip Coordinator," who may or may not be an "officious busybody." Atlanta Kayakers, on the other hand, has trip "hosts" who suggest a venue; that's the extent of their administration. No waivers, no insurance, no officers, no dues, no bylaws, just a web site and paddling events. Steve |
#4
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Well, Steve, I assure you, FWIW: when I coordinated a GCA trip last
Fall, ***I*** was an "officious busybody". wrote: I never have understood the PA deal. Georgia Canoeing Association is an affilitate. We use ACA insurance for races and instruction, and our trips are waivered Common Adventurer events with a "Trip Coordinator," who may or may not be an "officious busybody." Atlanta Kayakers, on the other hand, has trip "hosts" who suggest a venue; that's the extent of their administration. No waivers, no insurance, no officers, no dues, no bylaws, just a web site and paddling events. Steve |
#5
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Do you expect me to be surprised at that news?
![]() that trip. On Nov 2, 10:29 am, "Oci-One Kanubi" wrote: Well, Steve, I assure you, FWIW: when I coordinated a GCA trip last Fall, ***I*** was an "officious busybody". Steve Non-Certified Officious Busybody |
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