Corporate America gone amok...
 

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
k.net...

"Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in message
...
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 04:02:38 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

If you going to smoke, smoke an Altria brand. Filthy habit, but I
enjoy the dividends.

Filthy habits are drinking to excess and endangering innocent lives.

I'd be willing to bet that drinking alcohol kills a hell of a lot more
people than cigars do.
Tom,
As a former smoker I always thought smoking was an enjoyable, filthy,
unhealthy habit. I understood non smokers who did not want to smell or
inhale 2nd hand smoke. Since the mid 80's I only smoked outside and
tried to make sure it was not blowing towards non smokers.

Even if 2nd hand smoke was not proven to unhealthy, the smell alone is
offensive to non cigar smokers, even cigarette smokers.


Even if smoking is deadly, it is a free choice item. I can and do enjoy
it being banned from the workplace and bars and dining establishments
here in California. But this is supposed to be a free country. If you
want to smoke in your house, or car, you should be able to. Ballot
measure this election to put a $2.60 tax per pack of ciggies. F'n do
gooders. They say it will cut smoking, and 80% will go to hospitals for
payment of healthcare costs. It is still some fanatic group enforcing
their mores on another group. Short Wave is a health care basket case
from what I understand, but it is his choice to smoke. I used to race
cars, also can be unhealthy, but it is still an action of free (well
expensive) choice.


Here (NY), when the tax jumped in a big way, the two major manufacturers
apparently had enough room in their margins to whack the price. They're
still about five bucks a pack. Predictions were around seven. Never
happened.


But is not right for the government to decide to control some behaviors via
taxation while favoring others. Where the hell is the freedom of choice?
Some extremist group (like PETA?) gets the majority of congress people
bought and passes a $50 a fish caught tax. You still happy with that? You
are in the grocery business, Carbs are bad for you, so a tax of $0.03 an
ounce is placed on carbs. You going to cut your prices. And why should the
private company have to cut prices to offset a tax?

Corporate America gone amok...
 

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 15:52:22 +0000, Calif Bill wrote:


Even if smoking is deadly, it is a free choice item. I can and do enjoy
it
being banned from the workplace and bars and dining establishments here
in
California. But this is supposed to be a free country. If you want to
smoke in your house, or car, you should be able to. Ballot measure this
election to put a $2.60 tax per pack of ciggies. F'n do gooders. They
say
it will cut smoking, and 80% will go to hospitals for payment of
healthcare
costs. It is still some fanatic group enforcing their mores on another
group. Short Wave is a health care basket case from what I understand,
but
it is his choice to smoke. I used to race cars, also can be unhealthy,
but
it is still an action of free (well expensive) choice.

While I agree in principle, there are costs, and they should be bore by
those involved. Disregarding lost productivity, it has been estimated
$3.45 per pack, is spent on smoking related medical costs. Personally,
that ballot measure seems pretty fair.

http://www.cdc.gov/od/oc/Media/pressrel/r020412.htm

Over the life of a smoker, it is estimated that they pay a couple of
hundreds the times the cost of health related care. So where is the tax, on
fat? On Carbs? Those cokes rot teeth and add little nutrition to the diet.
Plus it is lost productivity costs as part of the study. Lets tax the World
Series and Super Bowl. They cost productivity also.

Corporate America gone amok...
 

"Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in message
. ..
Calif Bill wrote:
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
.net...
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

On 10/28/2006 10:35 AM, JimH wrote:
When our kids were young and we went out to eat we would hire a
babysitter. It was a nice escape from the kids for us and we did
not subject the folks in the restaurant to a screaming baby or
toddler.

My father expected me to behave properly in a restaurant, so I did.
When you were 2?

Eisboch

What's so odd about that? My son caused no problems in restaurants at
that age. He yacked a lot, but he was rarely loud. No tantrums, no
crying and screaming. But, his nap vs fun schedule was easy to work
around. We knew when he normally got tired & cranky, and tried to
avoid taking him out at those times. Some parents are too dumb to spot
the pattern.

Maybe you just did not notice it. When I am in an upscale restaurant
for a later evening meal that is costing me in the range of a $100 I do
not want someone's child inflicted on me. I paid for babysitters when
they were young and there are appropriate places to take you child to
for dinner, but not at 9 pm and the Carnelian room.

If the kid's sounds are no louder than that of the adults, what is the
issue? You don't want to see babies?


Babies are nice, but their sounds can be much louder and annoying than
adults. Since my kids were not perfect like yours, they got tired and
cranky.

Damn, imagine that. An infant who is not perfect and behaves like an
infant. Must be an indication of bad parents. ;)


Nope, infants cause us to not be perfect. We got tired and cranky.

Corporate America gone amok...
 

thunder wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 15:52:22 +0000, Calif Bill wrote:


Even if smoking is deadly, it is a free choice item. I can and do enjoy it
being banned from the workplace and bars and dining establishments here in
California. But this is supposed to be a free country. If you want to
smoke in your house, or car, you should be able to. Ballot measure this
election to put a $2.60 tax per pack of ciggies. F'n do gooders. They say
it will cut smoking, and 80% will go to hospitals for payment of healthcare
costs. It is still some fanatic group enforcing their mores on another
group. Short Wave is a health care basket case from what I understand, but
it is his choice to smoke. I used to race cars, also can be unhealthy, but
it is still an action of free (well expensive) choice.

While I agree in principle, there are costs, and they should be bore by
those involved. Disregarding lost productivity, it has been estimated
$3.45 per pack, is spent on smoking related medical costs. Personally,
that ballot measure seems pretty fair.

http://www.cdc.gov/od/oc/Media/pressrel/r020412.htm

Smoking related medical costs?

We need to go back to a pay as you go medical care system. No more
insurance and not more medicaid/medicare.

Corporate America gone amok...
 

On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 16:26:48 +0000, Calif Bill wrote:


Babies are nice, but their sounds can be much louder and annoying than
adults.

Those sounds are designed to get an adults attention. There is something
primal about the sound, and it is very difficult to ignore.

Corporate America gone amok...
 

On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 16:36:44 +0000, Calif Bill wrote:

Lets tax the World
Series and Super Bowl.

Hey, I'm OK with taxing the World Series, but the Superbowl? Surely you
jest. ;-)

Corporate America gone amok...
 

Calif Bill wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 04:02:38 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

If you going to smoke, smoke an Altria brand. Filthy habit, but I enjoy
the
dividends.

Filthy habits are drinking to excess and endangering innocent lives.

I'd be willing to bet that drinking alcohol kills a hell of a lot more
people than cigars do.
--
I'll bet you're wrong.

By the way, you can't partition off just cigars, unless you do the same
with alcohol, like compare cigar related deaths to, say, gin related
deaths.

http://tiki.oneworld.net/pollution/smoking.html

says that 434,000 people die each year from smoking in the U.S and
60,000 die each year from second hand smoke.

Then this site puts alcohol deaths at 100,000:

http://www.bookmark-manager.com/permalink-41


And I think they are full of it, to claim 60k deaths from second hand smoke.
If that was true, you would have a heck of a lot more than 434k dead from
direct injection. I one of those numbers that activitists can throw out and
feel good, and hard to prove otherwise.

No those figures are pretty accurate. They don't just dream them up, as
you think. Statistics is an interesting field, and if you think that
they just come up with numbers off the top of their head, you are sadly
mistaken.

Corporate America gone amok...
 

Calif Bill wrote:
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
k.net...

"Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in message
...
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 04:02:38 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

If you going to smoke, smoke an Altria brand. Filthy habit, but I
enjoy the dividends.

Filthy habits are drinking to excess and endangering innocent lives.

I'd be willing to bet that drinking alcohol kills a hell of a lot more
people than cigars do.
Tom,
As a former smoker I always thought smoking was an enjoyable, filthy,
unhealthy habit. I understood non smokers who did not want to smell or
inhale 2nd hand smoke. Since the mid 80's I only smoked outside and
tried to make sure it was not blowing towards non smokers.

Even if 2nd hand smoke was not proven to unhealthy, the smell alone is
offensive to non cigar smokers, even cigarette smokers.


Even if smoking is deadly, it is a free choice item. I can and do enjoy
it being banned from the workplace and bars and dining establishments
here in California. But this is supposed to be a free country. If you
want to smoke in your house, or car, you should be able to. Ballot
measure this election to put a $2.60 tax per pack of ciggies. F'n do
gooders. They say it will cut smoking, and 80% will go to hospitals for
payment of healthcare costs. It is still some fanatic group enforcing
their mores on another group. Short Wave is a health care basket case
from what I understand, but it is his choice to smoke. I used to race
cars, also can be unhealthy, but it is still an action of free (well
expensive) choice.


Here (NY), when the tax jumped in a big way, the two major manufacturers
apparently had enough room in their margins to whack the price. They're
still about five bucks a pack. Predictions were around seven. Never
happened.


But is not right for the government to decide to control some behaviors via
taxation while favoring others.

Why? Smokers take a huge amount of money from the government when they
get sick and cancerous because many many smokers can not afford
healthcare.

Corporate America gone amok...
 

"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

Calif Bill wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 04:02:38 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

If you going to smoke, smoke an Altria brand. Filthy habit, but I
enjoy
the
dividends.

Filthy habits are drinking to excess and endangering innocent lives.

I'd be willing to bet that drinking alcohol kills a hell of a lot more
people than cigars do.
--
I'll bet you're wrong.

By the way, you can't partition off just cigars, unless you do the same
with alcohol, like compare cigar related deaths to, say, gin related
deaths.

http://tiki.oneworld.net/pollution/smoking.html

says that 434,000 people die each year from smoking in the U.S and
60,000 die each year from second hand smoke.

Then this site puts alcohol deaths at 100,000:

http://www.bookmark-manager.com/permalink-41


And I think they are full of it, to claim 60k deaths from second hand
smoke.
If that was true, you would have a heck of a lot more than 434k dead from
direct injection. I one of those numbers that activitists can throw out
and
feel good, and hard to prove otherwise.

No those figures are pretty accurate. They don't just dream them up, as
you think. Statistics is an interesting field, and if you think that
they just come up with numbers off the top of their head, you are sadly
mistaken.


There is so much controversy on 2nd hand illnesses. My buddy smoked, he is
healthy but his wife got breast cancer. Is that a 2nd hand effect?

Corporate America gone amok...
 

"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

Calif Bill wrote:
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
k.net...

"Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in message
...
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 04:02:38 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

If you going to smoke, smoke an Altria brand. Filthy habit, but I
enjoy the dividends.

Filthy habits are drinking to excess and endangering innocent lives.

I'd be willing to bet that drinking alcohol kills a hell of a lot
more
people than cigars do.
Tom,
As a former smoker I always thought smoking was an enjoyable, filthy,
unhealthy habit. I understood non smokers who did not want to smell
or
inhale 2nd hand smoke. Since the mid 80's I only smoked outside and
tried to make sure it was not blowing towards non smokers.

Even if 2nd hand smoke was not proven to unhealthy, the smell alone
is
offensive to non cigar smokers, even cigarette smokers.


Even if smoking is deadly, it is a free choice item. I can and do
enjoy
it being banned from the workplace and bars and dining establishments
here in California. But this is supposed to be a free country. If
you
want to smoke in your house, or car, you should be able to. Ballot
measure this election to put a $2.60 tax per pack of ciggies. F'n do
gooders. They say it will cut smoking, and 80% will go to hospitals
for
payment of healthcare costs. It is still some fanatic group enforcing
their mores on another group. Short Wave is a health care basket case
from what I understand, but it is his choice to smoke. I used to race
cars, also can be unhealthy, but it is still an action of free (well
expensive) choice.


Here (NY), when the tax jumped in a big way, the two major
manufacturers
apparently had enough room in their margins to whack the price. They're
still about five bucks a pack. Predictions were around seven. Never
happened.


But is not right for the government to decide to control some behaviors
via
taxation while favoring others.

Why? Smokers take a huge amount of money from the government when they
get sick and cancerous because many many smokers can not afford
healthcare.


And lots of smokers are fully employed. And have insurance, which factors
in smoking in rates. Lots of poor, uninsured, unemployed are morbidly obese
(only in America) should we tax fat?

Corporate America gone amok...
 

"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

Calif Bill wrote:

But is not right for the government to decide to control some behaviors
via
taxation while favoring others.

Why? Smokers take a huge amount of money from the government when they
get sick and cancerous because many many smokers can not afford
healthcare.



Skin cancer is by far the most common cancer.

The National Cancer Institute and the Centers for Disease Control and
Prevention claims that 70 percent of adults take no protective measures to
prevent skin cancer.

So, should people be fined for going outside without a hat? Should we pay
extra taxes for sunny days?


Eisboch

Corporate America gone amok...
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..

A funny thing happened when the owners of the Beach House Restaurant in
Milford went looking for the best steaks they could find: they wound up
going pretty much all natural and, to a large degree, organic for the
entire menu.


The Beach House has a standard line of steaks - an 18-ounce Kansas City
strip, a 24-ounce porterhouse, a 10-ounce filet mignon or New York strip -
but they're from Brandts Beef in California, which does them all-natural,
hormone-free, all-American blood lines, fed no meat by-products.



I have a distant relative ... Aunt, I think, who married a cattle raiser.
The have a small farm in northwest Florida. His specialty is raising cattle
that are fed all organic feed, no chemicals, etc. I visited them on my way
to Florida last fall and they grilled up one of the steaks from a recent
slaughter.

It was horrible tasting. He was beaming with pride and kept asking me, "Did
you ever have a steak that tasted like that?"

I answered honestly ... no I never had.

Yuk.

Eisboch

Corporate America gone amok...
 

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
k.net...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
.net...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

On 10/28/2006 10:35 AM, JimH wrote:

When our kids were young and we went out to eat we would hire a
babysitter. It was a nice escape from the kids for us and we did not
subject the folks in the restaurant to a screaming baby or toddler.



My father expected me to behave properly in a restaurant, so I did.

When you were 2?

Eisboch


What's so odd about that? My son caused no problems in restaurants at
that age. He yacked a lot, but he was rarely loud. No tantrums, no
crying and screaming. But, his nap vs fun schedule was easy to work
around. We knew when he normally got tired & cranky, and tried to avoid
taking him out at those times. Some parents are too dumb to spot the
pattern.


Maybe you just did not notice it. When I am in an upscale restaurant
for a later evening meal that is costing me in the range of a $100 I do
not want someone's child inflicted on me. I paid for babysitters when
they were young and there are appropriate places to take you child to
for dinner, but not at 9 pm and the Carnelian room.


If the kid's sounds are no louder than that of the adults, what is the
issue? You don't want to see babies?


Babies are nice, but their sounds can be much louder and annoying than
adults. Since my kids were not perfect like yours, they got tired and
cranky.

Mine got tired and cranky, but it was like clockwork. If you have all day
Saturday to go grocery shopping, and you KNOW your kid gets nasty at four in
the afternoon, don't take him shopping at that time. Duh.

Corporate America gone amok...
 

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
.net...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
k.net...

"Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in message
...
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 04:02:38 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

If you going to smoke, smoke an Altria brand. Filthy habit, but I
enjoy the dividends.

Filthy habits are drinking to excess and endangering innocent lives.

I'd be willing to bet that drinking alcohol kills a hell of a lot more
people than cigars do.
Tom,
As a former smoker I always thought smoking was an enjoyable, filthy,
unhealthy habit. I understood non smokers who did not want to smell or
inhale 2nd hand smoke. Since the mid 80's I only smoked outside and
tried to make sure it was not blowing towards non smokers.

Even if 2nd hand smoke was not proven to unhealthy, the smell alone is
offensive to non cigar smokers, even cigarette smokers.


Even if smoking is deadly, it is a free choice item. I can and do enjoy
it being banned from the workplace and bars and dining establishments
here in California. But this is supposed to be a free country. If you
want to smoke in your house, or car, you should be able to. Ballot
measure this election to put a $2.60 tax per pack of ciggies. F'n do
gooders. They say it will cut smoking, and 80% will go to hospitals for
payment of healthcare costs. It is still some fanatic group enforcing
their mores on another group. Short Wave is a health care basket case
from what I understand, but it is his choice to smoke. I used to race
cars, also can be unhealthy, but it is still an action of free (well
expensive) choice.


Here (NY), when the tax jumped in a big way, the two major manufacturers
apparently had enough room in their margins to whack the price. They're
still about five bucks a pack. Predictions were around seven. Never
happened.


But is not right for the government to decide to control some behaviors
via taxation while favoring others. Where the hell is the freedom of
choice? Some extremist group (like PETA?) gets the majority of congress
people bought and passes a $50 a fish caught tax. You still happy with
that? You are in the grocery business, Carbs are bad for you, so a tax of
$0.03 an ounce is placed on carbs. You going to cut your prices. And why
should the private company have to cut prices to offset a tax?


I didn't say I was happy with the tax idea. I simply said that in some
cases, it may have no final effect on the price.

Corporate America gone amok...
 

On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 17:23:09 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:




And lots of smokers are fully employed. And have insurance, which factors
in smoking in rates. Lots of poor, uninsured, unemployed are morbidly obese
(only in America) should we tax fat?

I think I paid about 25% more for life insurance as a smoker, but
nothing extra for the health.
I agree with you about coca-cola, carbs and fat causing obesity
and its attendant health care costs.
But cigarettes cause forest fires. It was Smoky the Bear that really
started the anti-smoking crusade.

--Vic

Corporate America gone amok...
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

Calif Bill wrote:

But is not right for the government to decide to control some behaviors
via
taxation while favoring others.

Why? Smokers take a huge amount of money from the government when they
get sick and cancerous because many many smokers can not afford
healthcare.



Skin cancer is by far the most common cancer.

The National Cancer Institute and the Centers for Disease Control and
Prevention claims that 70 percent of adults take no protective measures to
prevent skin cancer.

So, should people be fined for going outside without a hat? Should we pay
extra taxes for sunny days?


Eisboch

I guess us full time Floridians should kick in a little extra when we do our
1040s. 80

"Sunny" and 72* by me today....

Corporate America gone amok...
 

Calif Bill wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

Calif Bill wrote:
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
k.net...

"Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in message
...
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 04:02:38 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

If you going to smoke, smoke an Altria brand. Filthy habit, but I
enjoy the dividends.

Filthy habits are drinking to excess and endangering innocent lives.

I'd be willing to bet that drinking alcohol kills a hell of a lot
more
people than cigars do.
Tom,
As a former smoker I always thought smoking was an enjoyable, filthy,
unhealthy habit. I understood non smokers who did not want to smell
or
inhale 2nd hand smoke. Since the mid 80's I only smoked outside and
tried to make sure it was not blowing towards non smokers.

Even if 2nd hand smoke was not proven to unhealthy, the smell alone
is
offensive to non cigar smokers, even cigarette smokers.


Even if smoking is deadly, it is a free choice item. I can and do
enjoy
it being banned from the workplace and bars and dining establishments
here in California. But this is supposed to be a free country. If
you
want to smoke in your house, or car, you should be able to. Ballot
measure this election to put a $2.60 tax per pack of ciggies. F'n do
gooders. They say it will cut smoking, and 80% will go to hospitals
for
payment of healthcare costs. It is still some fanatic group enforcing
their mores on another group. Short Wave is a health care basket case
from what I understand, but it is his choice to smoke. I used to race
cars, also can be unhealthy, but it is still an action of free (well
expensive) choice.


Here (NY), when the tax jumped in a big way, the two major
manufacturers
apparently had enough room in their margins to whack the price. They're
still about five bucks a pack. Predictions were around seven. Never
happened.


But is not right for the government to decide to control some behaviors
via
taxation while favoring others.

Why? Smokers take a huge amount of money from the government when they
get sick and cancerous because many many smokers can not afford
healthcare.


And lots of smokers are fully employed. And have insurance, which factors
in smoking in rates. Lots of poor, uninsured, unemployed are morbidly obese
(only in America) should we tax fat?

"Only in America"?????? That's just stupid! But yes, we should tax fat
in that case. Unless you want to pay for it alone.

Corporate America gone amok...
 

Calif Bill wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

Calif Bill wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 04:02:38 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

If you going to smoke, smoke an Altria brand. Filthy habit, but I
enjoy
the
dividends.

Filthy habits are drinking to excess and endangering innocent lives.

I'd be willing to bet that drinking alcohol kills a hell of a lot more
people than cigars do.
--
I'll bet you're wrong.

By the way, you can't partition off just cigars, unless you do the same
with alcohol, like compare cigar related deaths to, say, gin related
deaths.

http://tiki.oneworld.net/pollution/smoking.html

says that 434,000 people die each year from smoking in the U.S and
60,000 die each year from second hand smoke.

Then this site puts alcohol deaths at 100,000:

http://www.bookmark-manager.com/permalink-41


And I think they are full of it, to claim 60k deaths from second hand
smoke.
If that was true, you would have a heck of a lot more than 434k dead from
direct injection. I one of those numbers that activitists can throw out
and
feel good, and hard to prove otherwise.

No those figures are pretty accurate. They don't just dream them up, as
you think. Statistics is an interesting field, and if you think that
they just come up with numbers off the top of their head, you are sadly
mistaken.


There is so much controversy on 2nd hand illnesses. My buddy smoked, he is
healthy but his wife got breast cancer. Is that a 2nd hand effect?

Could be.

Corporate America gone amok...
 

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 04:02:38 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

If you going to smoke, smoke an Altria brand. Filthy habit, but I
enjoy the dividends.


Filthy habits are drinking to excess and endangering innocent lives.

I'd be willing to bet that drinking alcohol kills a hell of a lot more
people than cigars do.

Tom,
As a former smoker I always thought smoking was an enjoyable, filthy,
unhealthy habit. I understood non smokers who did not want to smell or
inhale 2nd hand smoke. Since the mid 80's I only smoked outside and
tried to make sure it was not blowing towards non smokers.

Even if 2nd hand smoke was not proven to unhealthy, the smell alone is
offensive to non cigar smokers, even cigarette smokers.

The thing I could never understand are those cigar clubs.
Can you imagine being in a room with a couple dozen people smoking all
different brands of stinky cigars? I'd probably puke on their shoes.

Corporate America gone amok...
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

I'll admit it straight up - I don't like babies.

One of the major disagreements we had concerning adoption was babies
or older children.

I won. :)

And, being totally frank, I am not a very patient man and I don't have
the instincts to determine exactly what or why a baby does what it
does. I admit it, I understand it and I avoid it. It's part of who I
am.

On the other hand, older children were much easier to deal with, talk
to, discipline and be consistent with.

It's all a matter of perspective.


I don't think that's unusual at all. Babies are something mothers were
designed to care for. Of course in this day and age that kind of thinking
is considered archaic.

But, it's true.

Eisboch

Corporate America gone amok...
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 13:39:06 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:

I have a distant relative ... Aunt, I think, who married a cattle raiser.
The have a small farm in northwest Florida. His specialty is raising cattle
that are fed all organic feed, no chemicals, etc. I visited them on my way
to Florida last fall and they grilled up one of the steaks from a recent
slaughter.

It was horrible tasting. He was beaming with pride and kept asking me, "Did
you ever have a steak that tasted like that?"

I answered honestly ... no I never had.

Yuk

Did you notice that the organic grass fed cattle all taste like grass?

I'm serious. :)

My preference is corn fed beef watered with bourbon or Merlot.

Corporate America gone amok...
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...


Bored today huh? :)



Well, it's been pouring rain and blowing like crazy. Been out a couple of
times to tighten up the lines on my and a few other boats. Nylon lines
stretch quite a bit, I've found.
We lost power a couple of times. I went down in the cabin to take a snooze,
but every time I got comfortable a blast of wind would hit and I could see
through one of the cabin portholes that the boat beside me moving *very*
quickly in my direction and I'd jump back up to check everything again.

Wind and rain have subsided now. The forecast calls for the winds to pick
up again from the west on Sunday, but I think the worst is over.

Eisboch

Corporate America gone amok...
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 16:16:21 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
.net...
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

On 10/28/2006 10:35 AM, JimH wrote:
When our kids were young and we went out to eat we would hire a
babysitter. It was a nice escape from the kids for us and we did not
subject the folks in the restaurant to a screaming baby or toddler.

My father expected me to behave properly in a restaurant, so I did.
When you were 2?
What's so odd about that? My son caused no problems in restaurants at
that age. He yacked a lot, but he was rarely loud. No tantrums, no crying
and screaming. But, his nap vs fun schedule was easy to work around. We
knew when he normally got tired & cranky, and tried to avoid taking him
out at those times. Some parents are too dumb to spot the pattern.
Maybe you just did not notice it. When I am in an upscale restaurant for
a later evening meal that is costing me in the range of a $100 I do not
want someone's child inflicted on me. I paid for babysitters when they
were young and there are appropriate places to take you child to for
dinner, but not at 9 pm and the Carnelian room.
If the kid's sounds are no louder than that of the adults, what is the
issue? You don't want to see babies?

I'll admit it straight up - I don't like babies.

One of the major disagreements we had concerning adoption was babies
or older children.

I won. :)

And, being totally frank, I am not a very patient man and I don't have
the instincts to determine exactly what or why a baby does what it
does. I admit it, I understand it and I avoid it. It's part of who I
am.

On the other hand, older children were much easier to deal with, talk
to, discipline and be consistent with.

It's all a matter of perspective.

I hope you gave them some cigars.

Corporate America gone amok...
 

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

On 10/28/2006 6:25 AM, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 04:02:38 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


If you going to smoke, smoke an Altria brand. Filthy habit, but I enjoy
the dividends.

Filthy habits are drinking to excess and endangering innocent lives.

I'd be willing to bet that drinking alcohol kills a hell of a lot more
people than cigars do.


The objection patrons have to others smoking in restaurants has nothing to
do with the health of the smoker, but with the stench the burning tobacco
creates and the health hazards transmitted by second-hand smoke.

More and more restaurants are converting to total "No Smoking," either on
their own or because local or state laws dictate it. It's the smart thing
to do.


My dad handled it nicely once in a restaurant. Tables were very close
together. A guy at the next table was smoking a cigar, and the smoke was
basically engulfing our table. It really messes with the enjoyment of food,
so my dad VERY politely asked him if he could either put it out, or go to
the bar, since they were done eating anyway. The guy just said "No". My dad
asked him again, politely. Again "No". My dad got up, snatched the cigar out
of the guy's hand, dunked it into his water glass, said "Thanks very much",
and sat down. Cigar boy left.



Sure he did.

Corporate America gone amok...
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...


Bored today huh? :)



Well, it's been pouring rain and blowing like crazy. Been out a couple of
times to tighten up the lines on my and a few other boats. Nylon lines
stretch quite a bit, I've found.
We lost power a couple of times. I went down in the cabin to take a
snooze, but every time I got comfortable a blast of wind would hit and I
could see through one of the cabin portholes that the boat beside me
moving *very* quickly in my direction and I'd jump back up to check
everything again.

Wind and rain have subsided now. The forecast calls for the winds to pick
up again from the west on Sunday, but I think the worst is over.

Eisboch


I go twice a year to get checked and have the little buggers removed. Dr.
Dang says most of the damage was done in my early years.

Corporate America gone amok...
 

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
.net...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
k.net...

"Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in message
...
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 04:02:38 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

If you going to smoke, smoke an Altria brand. Filthy habit, but I
enjoy the dividends.

Filthy habits are drinking to excess and endangering innocent lives.

I'd be willing to bet that drinking alcohol kills a hell of a lot
more
people than cigars do.
Tom,
As a former smoker I always thought smoking was an enjoyable, filthy,
unhealthy habit. I understood non smokers who did not want to smell
or inhale 2nd hand smoke. Since the mid 80's I only smoked outside
and tried to make sure it was not blowing towards non smokers.

Even if 2nd hand smoke was not proven to unhealthy, the smell alone is
offensive to non cigar smokers, even cigarette smokers.


Even if smoking is deadly, it is a free choice item. I can and do
enjoy it being banned from the workplace and bars and dining
establishments here in California. But this is supposed to be a free
country. If you want to smoke in your house, or car, you should be
able to. Ballot measure this election to put a $2.60 tax per pack of
ciggies. F'n do gooders. They say it will cut smoking, and 80% will
go to hospitals for payment of healthcare costs. It is still some
fanatic group enforcing their mores on another group. Short Wave is a
health care basket case from what I understand, but it is his choice to
smoke. I used to race cars, also can be unhealthy, but it is still an
action of free (well expensive) choice.


Here (NY), when the tax jumped in a big way, the two major manufacturers
apparently had enough room in their margins to whack the price. They're
still about five bucks a pack. Predictions were around seven. Never
happened.


But is not right for the government to decide to control some behaviors
via taxation while favoring others. Where the hell is the freedom of
choice? Some extremist group (like PETA?) gets the majority of congress
people bought and passes a $50 a fish caught tax. You still happy with
that? You are in the grocery business, Carbs are bad for you, so a tax
of $0.03 an ounce is placed on carbs. You going to cut your prices. And
why should the private company have to cut prices to offset a tax?


I didn't say I was happy with the tax idea. I simply said that in some
cases, it may have no final effect on the price.


$2.60 a pack tax. No affect on price?

Corporate America gone amok...
 

"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

Calif Bill wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

Calif Bill wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 04:02:38 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

If you going to smoke, smoke an Altria brand. Filthy habit, but I
enjoy
the
dividends.

Filthy habits are drinking to excess and endangering innocent
lives.

I'd be willing to bet that drinking alcohol kills a hell of a lot
more
people than cigars do.
--
I'll bet you're wrong.

By the way, you can't partition off just cigars, unless you do the
same
with alcohol, like compare cigar related deaths to, say, gin related
deaths.

http://tiki.oneworld.net/pollution/smoking.html

says that 434,000 people die each year from smoking in the U.S and
60,000 die each year from second hand smoke.

Then this site puts alcohol deaths at 100,000:

http://www.bookmark-manager.com/permalink-41


And I think they are full of it, to claim 60k deaths from second hand
smoke.
If that was true, you would have a heck of a lot more than 434k dead
from
direct injection. I one of those numbers that activitists can throw
out
and
feel good, and hard to prove otherwise.

No those figures are pretty accurate. They don't just dream them up, as
you think. Statistics is an interesting field, and if you think that
they just come up with numbers off the top of their head, you are sadly
mistaken.


There is so much controversy on 2nd hand illnesses. My buddy smoked, he
is
healthy but his wife got breast cancer. Is that a 2nd hand effect?

Could be.


Could be or may not be. But that is the problem with the statistics.

Corporate America gone amok...
 

"Don White" wrote in message
...
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 04:02:38 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

If you going to smoke, smoke an Altria brand. Filthy habit, but I
enjoy the dividends.


Filthy habits are drinking to excess and endangering innocent lives.

I'd be willing to bet that drinking alcohol kills a hell of a lot more
people than cigars do.

Tom,
As a former smoker I always thought smoking was an enjoyable, filthy,
unhealthy habit. I understood non smokers who did not want to smell or
inhale 2nd hand smoke. Since the mid 80's I only smoked outside and
tried to make sure it was not blowing towards non smokers.

Even if 2nd hand smoke was not proven to unhealthy, the smell alone is
offensive to non cigar smokers, even cigarette smokers.

The thing I could never understand are those cigar clubs.
Can you imagine being in a room with a couple dozen people smoking all
different brands of stinky cigars? I'd probably puke on their shoes.

Were you forced to enter and smell the ....?

Corporate America gone amok...
 

"Dan" wrote in message
link.net...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

On 10/28/2006 6:25 AM, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 04:02:38 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


If you going to smoke, smoke an Altria brand. Filthy habit, but I
enjoy the dividends.

Filthy habits are drinking to excess and endangering innocent lives.

I'd be willing to bet that drinking alcohol kills a hell of a lot more
people than cigars do.


The objection patrons have to others smoking in restaurants has nothing
to do with the health of the smoker, but with the stench the burning
tobacco creates and the health hazards transmitted by second-hand smoke.

More and more restaurants are converting to total "No Smoking," either on
their own or because local or state laws dictate it. It's the smart thing
to do.


My dad handled it nicely once in a restaurant. Tables were very close
together. A guy at the next table was smoking a cigar, and the smoke was
basically engulfing our table. It really messes with the enjoyment of
food, so my dad VERY politely asked him if he could either put it out, or
go to the bar, since they were done eating anyway. The guy just said
"No". My dad asked him again, politely. Again "No". My dad got up,
snatched the cigar out of the guy's hand, dunked it into his water glass,
said "Thanks very much", and sat down. Cigar boy left.

Sure he did.

You were there? Theresa's Restaurant, Glen Cove NY. Probably 1967-ish.

Corporate America gone amok...
 

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
link.net...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
.net...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
k.net...

"Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in message
...
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 04:02:38 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

If you going to smoke, smoke an Altria brand. Filthy habit, but I
enjoy the dividends.

Filthy habits are drinking to excess and endangering innocent lives.

I'd be willing to bet that drinking alcohol kills a hell of a lot
more
people than cigars do.
Tom,
As a former smoker I always thought smoking was an enjoyable, filthy,
unhealthy habit. I understood non smokers who did not want to smell
or inhale 2nd hand smoke. Since the mid 80's I only smoked outside
and tried to make sure it was not blowing towards non smokers.

Even if 2nd hand smoke was not proven to unhealthy, the smell alone
is offensive to non cigar smokers, even cigarette smokers.


Even if smoking is deadly, it is a free choice item. I can and do
enjoy it being banned from the workplace and bars and dining
establishments here in California. But this is supposed to be a free
country. If you want to smoke in your house, or car, you should be
able to. Ballot measure this election to put a $2.60 tax per pack of
ciggies. F'n do gooders. They say it will cut smoking, and 80% will
go to hospitals for payment of healthcare costs. It is still some
fanatic group enforcing their mores on another group. Short Wave is a
health care basket case from what I understand, but it is his choice
to smoke. I used to race cars, also can be unhealthy, but it is still
an action of free (well expensive) choice.


Here (NY), when the tax jumped in a big way, the two major
manufacturers apparently had enough room in their margins to whack the
price. They're still about five bucks a pack. Predictions were around
seven. Never happened.


But is not right for the government to decide to control some behaviors
via taxation while favoring others. Where the hell is the freedom of
choice? Some extremist group (like PETA?) gets the majority of congress
people bought and passes a $50 a fish caught tax. You still happy with
that? You are in the grocery business, Carbs are bad for you, so a tax
of $0.03 an ounce is placed on carbs. You going to cut your prices. And
why should the private company have to cut prices to offset a tax?


I didn't say I was happy with the tax idea. I simply said that in some
cases, it may have no final effect on the price.


$2.60 a pack tax. No affect on price?


Before the ***LATEST*** tax increase, they were $4.25-ish. After, they were
in the sixes. That lasted a month or two, at which point, they settled down
to $4.85-$5.25. Since the govmint didn't decrease their meddling, it's clear
that the big drop came from manufacturers. I know a C-store owner. He's
described the pricing to me.

Corporate America gone amok...
 

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
link.net...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
.net...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
k.net...

"Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in message
...
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 04:02:38 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

If you going to smoke, smoke an Altria brand. Filthy habit, but I
enjoy the dividends.

Filthy habits are drinking to excess and endangering innocent
lives.

I'd be willing to bet that drinking alcohol kills a hell of a lot
more
people than cigars do.
Tom,
As a former smoker I always thought smoking was an enjoyable,
filthy, unhealthy habit. I understood non smokers who did not want
to smell or inhale 2nd hand smoke. Since the mid 80's I only smoked
outside and tried to make sure it was not blowing towards non
smokers.

Even if 2nd hand smoke was not proven to unhealthy, the smell alone
is offensive to non cigar smokers, even cigarette smokers.


Even if smoking is deadly, it is a free choice item. I can and do
enjoy it being banned from the workplace and bars and dining
establishments here in California. But this is supposed to be a free
country. If you want to smoke in your house, or car, you should be
able to. Ballot measure this election to put a $2.60 tax per pack of
ciggies. F'n do gooders. They say it will cut smoking, and 80% will
go to hospitals for payment of healthcare costs. It is still some
fanatic group enforcing their mores on another group. Short Wave is
a health care basket case from what I understand, but it is his
choice to smoke. I used to race cars, also can be unhealthy, but it
is still an action of free (well expensive) choice.


Here (NY), when the tax jumped in a big way, the two major
manufacturers apparently had enough room in their margins to whack the
price. They're still about five bucks a pack. Predictions were around
seven. Never happened.


But is not right for the government to decide to control some behaviors
via taxation while favoring others. Where the hell is the freedom of
choice? Some extremist group (like PETA?) gets the majority of congress
people bought and passes a $50 a fish caught tax. You still happy with
that? You are in the grocery business, Carbs are bad for you, so a tax
of $0.03 an ounce is placed on carbs. You going to cut your prices.
And why should the private company have to cut prices to offset a tax?


I didn't say I was happy with the tax idea. I simply said that in some
cases, it may have no final effect on the price.


$2.60 a pack tax. No affect on price?


Before the ***LATEST*** tax increase, they were $4.25-ish. After, they
were in the sixes. That lasted a month or two, at which point, they
settled down to $4.85-$5.25. Since the govmint didn't decrease their
meddling, it's clear that the big drop came from manufacturers. I know a
C-store owner. He's described the pricing to me.

A friend in Rhode Island complains the price is still in the sixes. Is the
tax that much higher in RI than NY?

Corporate America gone amok...
 

"ACP" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
link.net...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
.net...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
k.net...

"Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in
message ...
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 04:02:38 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

If you going to smoke, smoke an Altria brand. Filthy habit, but
I enjoy the dividends.

Filthy habits are drinking to excess and endangering innocent
lives.

I'd be willing to bet that drinking alcohol kills a hell of a lot
more
people than cigars do.
Tom,
As a former smoker I always thought smoking was an enjoyable,
filthy, unhealthy habit. I understood non smokers who did not want
to smell or inhale 2nd hand smoke. Since the mid 80's I only
smoked outside and tried to make sure it was not blowing towards
non smokers.

Even if 2nd hand smoke was not proven to unhealthy, the smell alone
is offensive to non cigar smokers, even cigarette smokers.


Even if smoking is deadly, it is a free choice item. I can and do
enjoy it being banned from the workplace and bars and dining
establishments here in California. But this is supposed to be a
free country. If you want to smoke in your house, or car, you
should be able to. Ballot measure this election to put a $2.60 tax
per pack of ciggies. F'n do gooders. They say it will cut smoking,
and 80% will go to hospitals for payment of healthcare costs. It is
still some fanatic group enforcing their mores on another group.
Short Wave is a health care basket case from what I understand, but
it is his choice to smoke. I used to race cars, also can be
unhealthy, but it is still an action of free (well expensive)
choice.


Here (NY), when the tax jumped in a big way, the two major
manufacturers apparently had enough room in their margins to whack
the price. They're still about five bucks a pack. Predictions were
around seven. Never happened.


But is not right for the government to decide to control some
behaviors via taxation while favoring others. Where the hell is the
freedom of choice? Some extremist group (like PETA?) gets the majority
of congress people bought and passes a $50 a fish caught tax. You
still happy with that? You are in the grocery business, Carbs are bad
for you, so a tax of $0.03 an ounce is placed on carbs. You going to
cut your prices. And why should the private company have to cut prices
to offset a tax?


I didn't say I was happy with the tax idea. I simply said that in some
cases, it may have no final effect on the price.


$2.60 a pack tax. No affect on price?


Before the ***LATEST*** tax increase, they were $4.25-ish. After, they
were in the sixes. That lasted a month or two, at which point, they
settled down to $4.85-$5.25. Since the govmint didn't decrease their
meddling, it's clear that the big drop came from manufacturers. I know a
C-store owner. He's described the pricing to me.

A friend in Rhode Island complains the price is still in the sixes. Is
the tax that much higher in RI than NY?

Answered my own question:

As of 1/1/2006

NY - $1.50/pack (No. 10 in the US)
RI - $2.46/pack (highest in the US)

http://www.taxadmin.org/FTA/rate/cigarett.html

Corporate America gone amok...
 

Dan wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

On 10/28/2006 6:25 AM, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 04:02:38 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


If you going to smoke, smoke an Altria brand. Filthy habit, but I
enjoy the dividends.

Filthy habits are drinking to excess and endangering innocent lives.

I'd be willing to bet that drinking alcohol kills a hell of a lot more
people than cigars do.


The objection patrons have to others smoking in restaurants has
nothing to do with the health of the smoker, but with the stench the
burning tobacco creates and the health hazards transmitted by
second-hand smoke.

More and more restaurants are converting to total "No Smoking,"
either on their own or because local or state laws dictate it. It's
the smart thing to do.


My dad handled it nicely once in a restaurant. Tables were very close
together. A guy at the next table was smoking a cigar, and the smoke
was basically engulfing our table. It really messes with the enjoyment
of food, so my dad VERY politely asked him if he could either put it
out, or go to the bar, since they were done eating anyway. The guy
just said "No". My dad asked him again, politely. Again "No". My dad
got up, snatched the cigar out of the guy's hand, dunked it into his
water glass, said "Thanks very much", and sat down. Cigar boy left.


Sure he did.

I believe Doug on this one. It is a clue to his "character" development
or lack thereof.

Corporate America gone amok...
 

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
. ..
Dan wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

On 10/28/2006 6:25 AM, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 04:02:38 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


If you going to smoke, smoke an Altria brand. Filthy habit, but I
enjoy the dividends.

Filthy habits are drinking to excess and endangering innocent lives.

I'd be willing to bet that drinking alcohol kills a hell of a lot more
people than cigars do.


The objection patrons have to others smoking in restaurants has nothing
to do with the health of the smoker, but with the stench the burning
tobacco creates and the health hazards transmitted by second-hand
smoke.

More and more restaurants are converting to total "No Smoking," either
on their own or because local or state laws dictate it. It's the smart
thing to do.


My dad handled it nicely once in a restaurant. Tables were very close
together. A guy at the next table was smoking a cigar, and the smoke was
basically engulfing our table. It really messes with the enjoyment of
food, so my dad VERY politely asked him if he could either put it out,
or go to the bar, since they were done eating anyway. The guy just said
"No". My dad asked him again, politely. Again "No". My dad got up,
snatched the cigar out of the guy's hand, dunked it into his water
glass, said "Thanks very much", and sat down. Cigar boy left.


Sure he did.

I believe Doug on this one. It is a clue to his "character" development or
lack thereof.

What would you have done, PatBert, if you'd just gotten your main course,
and there were no empty tables to move to? Maybe ask the guy to pay for your
dinner, since it was ruined?

Corporate America gone amok...
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 10:36:18 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 04:02:38 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

If you going to smoke, smoke an Altria brand. Filthy habit, but I enjoy the
dividends.

Filthy habits are drinking to excess and endangering innocent lives.

I'd be willing to bet that drinking alcohol kills a hell of a lot more
people than cigars do.
Tom,
As a former smoker I always thought smoking was an enjoyable, filthy,
unhealthy habit. I understood non smokers who did not want to smell or
inhale 2nd hand smoke. Since the mid 80's I only smoked outside and
tried to make sure it was not blowing towards non smokers.

Even if 2nd hand smoke was not proven to unhealthy, the smell alone is
offensive to non cigar smokers, even cigarette smokers.

I have no problem with that and I understand that not everybody likes
the smell of a good cigar.

Further, I can appreciate the lack of taste and refinement that others
prefer not to exhibit when selecting, say, a pack of cigars for $3.00
at the 7/11 vs fine hand rolled cigars from a certain nation south of
Florida.

However my point is simple. I'd put up good money and bet that
drinking alcohol is more of a detriment to your health and well being
statistically than being near a person smoking a good cigar.

Once again, you aren't being even handed. For the alcohol, you have the
person consuming directly, and for the tobacco, you have the person
"being near" another person smoking. So, I'll bet that a person "being
near" someone who has a beer is statistically better off than the
person standing next to someone smoking a stinking nasty cigar.

Corporate America gone amok...
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 28 Oct 2006 10:05:10 -0700, "basskisser"
wrote:


Calif Bill wrote:
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
k.net...

"Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in message
...
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 04:02:38 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

If you going to smoke, smoke an Altria brand. Filthy habit, but I
enjoy the dividends.

Filthy habits are drinking to excess and endangering innocent lives.

I'd be willing to bet that drinking alcohol kills a hell of a lot more
people than cigars do.
Tom,
As a former smoker I always thought smoking was an enjoyable, filthy,
unhealthy habit. I understood non smokers who did not want to smell or
inhale 2nd hand smoke. Since the mid 80's I only smoked outside and
tried to make sure it was not blowing towards non smokers.

Even if 2nd hand smoke was not proven to unhealthy, the smell alone is
offensive to non cigar smokers, even cigarette smokers.


Even if smoking is deadly, it is a free choice item. I can and do enjoy
it being banned from the workplace and bars and dining establishments
here in California. But this is supposed to be a free country. If you
want to smoke in your house, or car, you should be able to. Ballot
measure this election to put a $2.60 tax per pack of ciggies. F'n do
gooders. They say it will cut smoking, and 80% will go to hospitals for
payment of healthcare costs. It is still some fanatic group enforcing
their mores on another group. Short Wave is a health care basket case
from what I understand, but it is his choice to smoke. I used to race
cars, also can be unhealthy, but it is still an action of free (well
expensive) choice.


Here (NY), when the tax jumped in a big way, the two major manufacturers
apparently had enough room in their margins to whack the price. They're
still about five bucks a pack. Predictions were around seven. Never
happened.


But is not right for the government to decide to control some behaviors via
taxation while favoring others.

Why? Smokers take a huge amount of money from the government when they
get sick and cancerous because many many smokers can not afford
healthcare.

Bull****.
--
Do you REALLY think that all smokers are able to afford good medical
care? Really??
You do realize that statistically, smokers less affluent than
non-smokers, don't you?

Corporate America gone amok...
 

Calif Bill wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

Calif Bill wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

Calif Bill wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 04:02:38 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

If you going to smoke, smoke an Altria brand. Filthy habit, but I
enjoy
the
dividends.

Filthy habits are drinking to excess and endangering innocent
lives.

I'd be willing to bet that drinking alcohol kills a hell of a lot
more
people than cigars do.
--
I'll bet you're wrong.

By the way, you can't partition off just cigars, unless you do the
same
with alcohol, like compare cigar related deaths to, say, gin related
deaths.

http://tiki.oneworld.net/pollution/smoking.html

says that 434,000 people die each year from smoking in the U.S and
60,000 die each year from second hand smoke.

Then this site puts alcohol deaths at 100,000:

http://www.bookmark-manager.com/permalink-41


And I think they are full of it, to claim 60k deaths from second hand
smoke.
If that was true, you would have a heck of a lot more than 434k dead
from
direct injection. I one of those numbers that activitists can throw
out
and
feel good, and hard to prove otherwise.

No those figures are pretty accurate. They don't just dream them up, as
you think. Statistics is an interesting field, and if you think that
they just come up with numbers off the top of their head, you are sadly
mistaken.


There is so much controversy on 2nd hand illnesses. My buddy smoked, he
is
healthy but his wife got breast cancer. Is that a 2nd hand effect?

Could be.


Could be or may not be. But that is the problem with the statistics.

Only fools and idiots prefer to make up their own minds regardless of
data showing otherwise.

Corporate America gone amok...
 

"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 10:36:18 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 04:02:38 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

If you going to smoke, smoke an Altria brand. Filthy habit, but I
enjoy the
dividends.

Filthy habits are drinking to excess and endangering innocent lives.

I'd be willing to bet that drinking alcohol kills a hell of a lot more
people than cigars do.
Tom,
As a former smoker I always thought smoking was an enjoyable, filthy,
unhealthy habit. I understood non smokers who did not want to smell or
inhale 2nd hand smoke. Since the mid 80's I only smoked outside and
tried to make sure it was not blowing towards non smokers.

Even if 2nd hand smoke was not proven to unhealthy, the smell alone is
offensive to non cigar smokers, even cigarette smokers.

I have no problem with that and I understand that not everybody likes
the smell of a good cigar.

Further, I can appreciate the lack of taste and refinement that others
prefer not to exhibit when selecting, say, a pack of cigars for $3.00
at the 7/11 vs fine hand rolled cigars from a certain nation south of
Florida.

However my point is simple. I'd put up good money and bet that
drinking alcohol is more of a detriment to your health and well being
statistically than being near a person smoking a good cigar.

Once again, you aren't being even handed. For the alcohol, you have the
person consuming directly, and for the tobacco, you have the person
"being near" another person smoking. So, I'll bet that a person "being
near" someone who has a beer is statistically better off than the
person standing next to someone smoking a stinking nasty cigar.

To quote one of your favorite responses, "cite".

Corporate America gone amok...
 

"ACP" wrote in message
...

Once again, you aren't being even handed. For the alcohol, you have the
person consuming directly, and for the tobacco, you have the person
"being near" another person smoking. So, I'll bet that a person "being
near" someone who has a beer is statistically better off than the
person standing next to someone smoking a stinking nasty cigar.

To quote one of your favorite responses, "cite".


Why a cite? Have you ever heard of anyone being harmed by standing next to a
person having a beer? Refrain from silly examples (drinker falls on adjacent
person, spills beer on adjacent person, starts bar fight, etc).

Corporate America gone amok...
 

"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

Calif Bill wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

Calif Bill wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

Calif Bill wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 04:02:38 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

If you going to smoke, smoke an Altria brand. Filthy habit,
but I
enjoy
the
dividends.

Filthy habits are drinking to excess and endangering innocent
lives.

I'd be willing to bet that drinking alcohol kills a hell of a
lot
more
people than cigars do.
--
I'll bet you're wrong.

By the way, you can't partition off just cigars, unless you do
the
same
with alcohol, like compare cigar related deaths to, say, gin
related
deaths.

http://tiki.oneworld.net/pollution/smoking.html

says that 434,000 people die each year from smoking in the U.S
and
60,000 die each year from second hand smoke.

Then this site puts alcohol deaths at 100,000:

http://www.bookmark-manager.com/permalink-41


And I think they are full of it, to claim 60k deaths from second
hand
smoke.
If that was true, you would have a heck of a lot more than 434k
dead
from
direct injection. I one of those numbers that activitists can
throw
out
and
feel good, and hard to prove otherwise.

No those figures are pretty accurate. They don't just dream them up,
as
you think. Statistics is an interesting field, and if you think that
they just come up with numbers off the top of their head, you are
sadly
mistaken.


There is so much controversy on 2nd hand illnesses. My buddy smoked,
he
is
healthy but his wife got breast cancer. Is that a 2nd hand effect?

Could be.


Could be or may not be. But that is the problem with the statistics.

Only fools and idiots prefer to make up their own minds regardless of
data showing otherwise.


And where is the data?