"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 13:51:37 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick" wrote in
message ...
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 00:22:15 -0400, "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick"
wrote:


You'll need proof, of course, that they're your e-mails.

They'll all have to be signed Gunner Asch.


Nope..they all have to originate from or
several others with spam protection built in

And I dont need to provide anything. You mean dick in the grand scheme
of things and are simply a bit of snot flicked on the wall, that I
note in disgust in passing

Snicker

Gunner

Are you employed at the moment? Is your job currently threatened by the
presence of cheaper workers?

It's obvious that his job would be threatened by cheap workers even if
he
was employed.


Here's what's NOT obvious to him: The financial structure of many American
manufacturers has been completely reshaped around the idea of having goods
made overseas where labor is cheaper. This trend probably won't be
reversed
unless we go to war with China, or when machinery is invented which can
make
things even cheaper at plants in this country. In other words, the system
is
here to stay.

The other factor which pushes this trend is our price expectations. I just
emailed Lands End to check my memory, but if I recall the last time I
bought
American made dress shirts from them, they cost $25-$30, maybe more. That
was at least 10 years ago. I wonder what they'd cost now if they were
still
made here. I would've paid more because I tend to take good care of them,
but somehow, they (and LL Bean, Van Heusen and everyone else) got the idea
that it was better to have them made overseas. But, I may not be the
typical
buyer.

No..you are not. You shop like a yuppie. Eastern nor Northwestern
Yuppie at that.

Really? Because of the source? Show me another place to get long & tall size
shirts which don't also have an extra yard of material around the middle for
fat slobs. Be sure you've bought from this source, as well as the other two,
so you're positive the quality's the same. Or, keep the advice.



This relates to illegal workers because we are also accustomed to certain
price levels for goods and services created here. I've paid between 99
cents
and $1.79 per pound for Romaine or green leaf lettuce over the past couple
of years, depending on season. I wonder how Gunner would react if lettuce
suddenly cost $4.00 per pound because the harvesting had to be done by
citizens who expected quite a bit more than minimum wage for the hard
work.

It wouldnt bother me in the slightest..as you keep forgetting
something..we will pay on one end of the chain or the other. Increased
costs of goods and services, or increased taxes and infrastructure
costs to cover the societal costs of illegals. Chuckle..Im quite
familiar with economics of this issue. Btw...it would only increase
the price of a head of lettuce(US produced) by about $.17)

Obesity puts a huge strain on the medical system in this country. Nobody
wants to throw fatsos out of the country.



I suspect Gunner has not spent any time in a restaurant kitchen, either.
In
his book about the restaurant business, Anthony Bourdain commented that if
you can't speak a little Spanish, and get along well with foreigners, you
can kiss your restaurant goodbye. Foreigners have been the backbone of
restaurant kitchens for much longer than their immigration status has been
a
political football.

Snicker..again you are wrong. Ive many friends who own restaurants, as
well as those who work there. Most of the workers are legals, or low
tier citizens. In many cases..they used to be black, now they are
hispanic.

Your job has apparently taken you to every restaurant in America. Nice work,
if you can get it.




Assuming you could replace many workers with high school kids (which you
can't, because they don't want these jobs), and your $15.00 entree becomes
much more costly. All the produce that cannot be harvested by machines
will
become luxury items, like lobster. Gunner has no solution for this.

Odd..before the sudden influx in the last 15 yrs of illegals..I dont
recall $20 bowls of soup, do you? And what percentage of illegals
actually work in agriculture? Its only a small fraction of the total
influx. In fact..the vast majority of ag workers are campasenos..legal
seasonal workers who go home at the end of the season. They are well
paid, minimum wage or better, just like a citizen would be. The
government has focused on Agriculture..so it tends to be far cleaner
than most other industries in the US as far as legal/illegal
workforces go.

Do either of you buffoons actually live where there is an illegal
workforce? You twits sound like a pair of Beltway or northwestern
upscale yuppies who cant find your ass with either hand. Either in
college, living with mommy and daddy, or working in some job that
seldom gets your hands dirty.

Umm...upstate New York. Now, you'll probably say something I'm accustomed to
hearing in the rec.guns newsgroup, from people who've never set foot out of
Lower Podunk, KY. Surprise me.

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 16:06:42 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 13:51:37 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick" wrote in
message ...
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 00:22:15 -0400, "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick"
wrote:


You'll need proof, of course, that they're your e-mails.

They'll all have to be signed Gunner Asch.


Nope..they all have to originate from or
several others with spam protection built in

And I dont need to provide anything. You mean dick in the grand scheme
of things and are simply a bit of snot flicked on the wall, that I
note in disgust in passing

Snicker

Gunner

Are you employed at the moment? Is your job currently threatened by the
presence of cheaper workers?

It's obvious that his job would be threatened by cheap workers even if
he
was employed.


Here's what's NOT obvious to him: The financial structure of many American
manufacturers has been completely reshaped around the idea of having goods
made overseas where labor is cheaper. This trend probably won't be
reversed
unless we go to war with China, or when machinery is invented which can
make
things even cheaper at plants in this country. In other words, the system
is
here to stay.

The other factor which pushes this trend is our price expectations. I just
emailed Lands End to check my memory, but if I recall the last time I
bought
American made dress shirts from them, they cost $25-$30, maybe more. That
was at least 10 years ago. I wonder what they'd cost now if they were
still
made here. I would've paid more because I tend to take good care of them,
but somehow, they (and LL Bean, Van Heusen and everyone else) got the idea
that it was better to have them made overseas. But, I may not be the
typical
buyer.

No..you are not. You shop like a yuppie. Eastern nor Northwestern
Yuppie at that.

Really? Because of the source? Show me another place to get long & tall size
shirts which don't also have an extra yard of material around the middle for
fat slobs. Be sure you've bought from this source, as well as the other two,
so you're positive the quality's the same. Or, keep the advice.

Shepplers, Sears Big and Tall, Dahles, just to name a few.

Btw..Im 6'3, 210, 18" neck, 36" waist, with a 34-36" inseam. When I
stand, and look down..I can see my belt buckle. I wear a 48 coat.

Hardly a "fat slob" eh?


This relates to illegal workers because we are also accustomed to certain
price levels for goods and services created here. I've paid between 99
cents
and $1.79 per pound for Romaine or green leaf lettuce over the past couple
of years, depending on season. I wonder how Gunner would react if lettuce
suddenly cost $4.00 per pound because the harvesting had to be done by
citizens who expected quite a bit more than minimum wage for the hard
work.

It wouldnt bother me in the slightest..as you keep forgetting
something..we will pay on one end of the chain or the other. Increased
costs of goods and services, or increased taxes and infrastructure
costs to cover the societal costs of illegals. Chuckle..Im quite
familiar with economics of this issue. Btw...it would only increase
the price of a head of lettuce(US produced) by about $.17)

Obesity puts a huge strain on the medical system in this country. Nobody
wants to throw fatsos out of the country.



I suspect Gunner has not spent any time in a restaurant kitchen, either.
In
his book about the restaurant business, Anthony Bourdain commented that if
you can't speak a little Spanish, and get along well with foreigners, you
can kiss your restaurant goodbye. Foreigners have been the backbone of
restaurant kitchens for much longer than their immigration status has been
a
political football.

Snicker..again you are wrong. Ive many friends who own restaurants, as
well as those who work there. Most of the workers are legals, or low
tier citizens. In many cases..they used to be black, now they are
hispanic.

Your job has apparently taken you to every restaurant in America. Nice work,
if you can get it.


So your job HAS taken you to every restaurant in America? Food critic
perhaps? And you dont buy fat slob clothes?



Assuming you could replace many workers with high school kids (which you
can't, because they don't want these jobs), and your $15.00 entree becomes
much more costly. All the produce that cannot be harvested by machines
will
become luxury items, like lobster. Gunner has no solution for this.

Odd..before the sudden influx in the last 15 yrs of illegals..I dont
recall $20 bowls of soup, do you? And what percentage of illegals
actually work in agriculture? Its only a small fraction of the total
influx. In fact..the vast majority of ag workers are campasenos..legal
seasonal workers who go home at the end of the season. They are well
paid, minimum wage or better, just like a citizen would be. The
government has focused on Agriculture..so it tends to be far cleaner
than most other industries in the US as far as legal/illegal
workforces go.

Do either of you buffoons actually live where there is an illegal
workforce? You twits sound like a pair of Beltway or northwestern
upscale yuppies who cant find your ass with either hand. Either in
college, living with mommy and daddy, or working in some job that
seldom gets your hands dirty.

Umm...upstate New York. Now, you'll probably say something I'm accustomed to
hearing in the rec.guns newsgroup, from people who've never set foot out of
Lower Podunk, KY. Surprise me.

Upscale NY..now there is a hotbed of illegal aliens. Oh **** yes.

The Finger Lakes are beautiful this time of the year, arent they?

So...it appears you have confirmed my comments on needing to get out a
bit more. Pity.

Gunner, posting from Ontario, California..later this evening will be
traveling to his home outside of Bakersfield, in Californias Central
Valley.


Rule #35
"That which does not kill you,
has made a huge tactical error"

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 16:06:42 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 13:51:37 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick" wrote
in
message ...
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 00:22:15 -0400, "Douglas W. \"Popeye\"
Frederick"
wrote:


You'll need proof, of course, that they're your e-mails.

They'll all have to be signed Gunner Asch.


Nope..they all have to originate from or
several others with spam protection built in

And I dont need to provide anything. You mean dick in the grand
scheme
of things and are simply a bit of snot flicked on the wall, that I
note in disgust in passing

Snicker

Gunner

Are you employed at the moment? Is your job currently threatened by
the
presence of cheaper workers?

It's obvious that his job would be threatened by cheap workers even
if
he
was employed.


Here's what's NOT obvious to him: The financial structure of many
American
manufacturers has been completely reshaped around the idea of having
goods
made overseas where labor is cheaper. This trend probably won't be
reversed
unless we go to war with China, or when machinery is invented which can
make
things even cheaper at plants in this country. In other words, the
system
is
here to stay.

The other factor which pushes this trend is our price expectations. I
just
emailed Lands End to check my memory, but if I recall the last time I
bought
American made dress shirts from them, they cost $25-$30, maybe more.
That
was at least 10 years ago. I wonder what they'd cost now if they were
still
made here. I would've paid more because I tend to take good care of
them,
but somehow, they (and LL Bean, Van Heusen and everyone else) got the
idea
that it was better to have them made overseas. But, I may not be the
typical
buyer.

No..you are not. You shop like a yuppie. Eastern nor Northwestern
Yuppie at that.

Really? Because of the source? Show me another place to get long & tall
size
shirts which don't also have an extra yard of material around the middle
for
fat slobs. Be sure you've bought from this source, as well as the other
two,
so you're positive the quality's the same. Or, keep the advice.

Shepplers, Sears Big and Tall, Dahles, just to name a few.

Btw..Im 6'3, 210, 18" neck, 36" waist, with a 34-36" inseam. When I
stand, and look down..I can see my belt buckle. I wear a 48 coat.

Hardly a "fat slob" eh?


This relates to illegal workers because we are also accustomed to
certain
price levels for goods and services created here. I've paid between 99
cents
and $1.79 per pound for Romaine or green leaf lettuce over the past
couple
of years, depending on season. I wonder how Gunner would react if
lettuce
suddenly cost $4.00 per pound because the harvesting had to be done by
citizens who expected quite a bit more than minimum wage for the hard
work.

It wouldnt bother me in the slightest..as you keep forgetting
something..we will pay on one end of the chain or the other. Increased
costs of goods and services, or increased taxes and infrastructure
costs to cover the societal costs of illegals. Chuckle..Im quite
familiar with economics of this issue. Btw...it would only increase
the price of a head of lettuce(US produced) by about $.17)

Obesity puts a huge strain on the medical system in this country. Nobody
wants to throw fatsos out of the country.



I suspect Gunner has not spent any time in a restaurant kitchen, either.
In
his book about the restaurant business, Anthony Bourdain commented that
if
you can't speak a little Spanish, and get along well with foreigners,
you
can kiss your restaurant goodbye. Foreigners have been the backbone of
restaurant kitchens for much longer than their immigration status has
been
a
political football.

Snicker..again you are wrong. Ive many friends who own restaurants, as
well as those who work there. Most of the workers are legals, or low
tier citizens. In many cases..they used to be black, now they are
hispanic.

Your job has apparently taken you to every restaurant in America. Nice
work,
if you can get it.


So your job HAS taken you to every restaurant in America? Food critic
perhaps? And you dont buy fat slob clothes?



Assuming you could replace many workers with high school kids (which you
can't, because they don't want these jobs), and your $15.00 entree
becomes
much more costly. All the produce that cannot be harvested by machines
will
become luxury items, like lobster. Gunner has no solution for this.

Odd..before the sudden influx in the last 15 yrs of illegals..I dont
recall $20 bowls of soup, do you? And what percentage of illegals
actually work in agriculture? Its only a small fraction of the total
influx. In fact..the vast majority of ag workers are campasenos..legal
seasonal workers who go home at the end of the season. They are well
paid, minimum wage or better, just like a citizen would be. The
government has focused on Agriculture..so it tends to be far cleaner
than most other industries in the US as far as legal/illegal
workforces go.

Do either of you buffoons actually live where there is an illegal
workforce? You twits sound like a pair of Beltway or northwestern
upscale yuppies who cant find your ass with either hand. Either in
college, living with mommy and daddy, or working in some job that
seldom gets your hands dirty.

Umm...upstate New York. Now, you'll probably say something I'm accustomed
to
hearing in the rec.guns newsgroup, from people who've never set foot out
of
Lower Podunk, KY. Surprise me.

Upscale NY..now there is a hotbed of illegal aliens. Oh **** yes.

The Finger Lakes are beautiful this time of the year, arent they?

So...it appears you have confirmed my comments on needing to get out a
bit more. Pity.

I see. You think the crops here jump off the plants into the boxes by
themselves. What percentage of the workers are legal vs illegal?

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 17:32:57 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:


Upscale NY..now there is a hotbed of illegal aliens. Oh **** yes.

The Finger Lakes are beautiful this time of the year, arent they?

So...it appears you have confirmed my comments on needing to get out a
bit more. Pity.

I see. You think the crops here jump off the plants into the boxes by
themselves. What percentage of the workers are legal vs illegal?

Crops come off the plants in New York the same way they do in
California. By machine or by hand. Here in California...most of the
workers are legal. Percentage wise..probably 70/30 legal to illegal.
ICE and the State have been fairly proactive. On the other hand..small
business outside of agriculture makes up the majority of illegal labor.
Everything from sweat shops to plating shops to yard service and day
labor. And a large majority of some of those industries are comprised of
illegals. Illegals with false ID.

I was talking to the book keeper of a medium sized machine shop..180
employees. They have as many as 8 people using the same Social Security
number. A total of about 75 people with duplicate Social Security
numbers. And its unlawful for them to find out from the State which
ones are legal or illegal. Once every couple years..the State sends a
query about duplicate numbers..the employees are asked..they slap
themselves on the forehead..say Aheee! My Mistake..and give HR a
different Social Security number. Ive talked candidly with many illegals
in the machine shops I work in..and most of them have at least 3 social
security numbers written down in their wallets or purses, for just such
a circumstance.

We had another DMV ******* popped last week. Taking an existing drivers
license, changing the address and the picture and the name.and selling
them to illegals for $500-1800 a pop. What could be more legitimate...an
ID right straight from the DMV. Too bad its bogus..but it sure LOOKs
legal with all the proper holligrams and embossing.

Though I can buy a decent set of ID at an swap meet or park..give em
$150, a small photo..and hang around for an hour..and a runner brings it
back to me..and damned hard to spot as counterfiet. I know..I used to be
a cop here in California.

Gunner



"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 17:32:57 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:


Upscale NY..now there is a hotbed of illegal aliens. Oh **** yes.

The Finger Lakes are beautiful this time of the year, arent they?

So...it appears you have confirmed my comments on needing to get out a
bit more. Pity.

I see. You think the crops here jump off the plants into the boxes by
themselves. What percentage of the workers are legal vs illegal?

Crops come off the plants in New York the same way they do in
California. By machine or by hand. Here in California...most of the
workers are legal. Percentage wise..probably 70/30 legal to illegal.
ICE and the State have been fairly proactive. On the other hand..small
business outside of agriculture makes up the majority of illegal labor.
Everything from sweat shops to plating shops to yard service and day
labor. And a large majority of some of those industries are comprised of
illegals. Illegals with false ID.

The ratio is about 50/50 here. But, you knew that.

On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 17:57:06 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 17:32:57 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:


Upscale NY..now there is a hotbed of illegal aliens. Oh **** yes.

The Finger Lakes are beautiful this time of the year, arent they?

So...it appears you have confirmed my comments on needing to get out a
bit more. Pity.

I see. You think the crops here jump off the plants into the boxes by
themselves. What percentage of the workers are legal vs illegal?

Crops come off the plants in New York the same way they do in
California. By machine or by hand. Here in California...most of the
workers are legal. Percentage wise..probably 70/30 legal to illegal.
ICE and the State have been fairly proactive. On the other hand..small
business outside of agriculture makes up the majority of illegal labor.
Everything from sweat shops to plating shops to yard service and day
labor. And a large majority of some of those industries are comprised of
illegals. Illegals with false ID.

The ratio is about 50/50 here. But, you knew that.

In upstate New York? Why would I pay any attention to Upstate New Yorks
illegal alien problem, specificly?

Gunner




"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 17:57:06 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 17:32:57 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:


Upscale NY..now there is a hotbed of illegal aliens. Oh **** yes.

The Finger Lakes are beautiful this time of the year, arent they?

So...it appears you have confirmed my comments on needing to get out a
bit more. Pity.

I see. You think the crops here jump off the plants into the boxes by
themselves. What percentage of the workers are legal vs illegal?

Crops come off the plants in New York the same way they do in
California. By machine or by hand. Here in California...most of the
workers are legal. Percentage wise..probably 70/30 legal to illegal.
ICE and the State have been fairly proactive. On the other hand..small
business outside of agriculture makes up the majority of illegal labor.
Everything from sweat shops to plating shops to yard service and day
labor. And a large majority of some of those industries are comprised of
illegals. Illegals with false ID.

The ratio is about 50/50 here. But, you knew that.

In upstate New York? Why would I pay any attention to Upstate New Yorks
illegal alien problem, specificly?

Gunner

Because earlier, you said this:

Do either of you buffoons actually live where there is an illegal
workforce? You twits sound like a pair of Beltway or northwestern
upscale yuppies who cant find your ass with either hand. Either in
college, living with mommy and daddy, or working in some job that
seldom gets your hands dirty.

....which implies that I knew nothing about how produce gets to market.

You later implied that you knew something about agricultural workers here.

Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but Gunner wrote
on Sat, 28 Oct 2006 17:19:47 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking :

We had another DMV ******* popped last week. Taking an existing drivers
license, changing the address and the picture and the name.and selling
them to illegals for $500-1800 a pop. What could be more legitimate...an
ID right straight from the DMV. Too bad its bogus..but it sure LOOKs
legal with all the proper holligrams and embossing.

Though I can buy a decent set of ID at an swap meet or park..give em
$150, a small photo..and hang around for an hour..and a runner brings it
back to me..and damned hard to spot as counterfiet. I know..I used to be
a cop here in California.

As President Lech Welensa said, back in the 80s "Where there is
stupidity, there are business opportunities."
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."