I like Chucky dots; they're yummy!
JR

Jim wrote:
_ _ _ Oops! One got away. ~





--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

Just to prove a point, I went to the alt.civil.war.usa newsgroup for a
quick sampling.

In just one minute I had the following headers:

Clash of bigots continues
Laura Bush murdered her favorite boyfriends
The one trillion dollar war
Meshuga ****tard Ohara
Neo Conservatives in the news
Bassy the bigot exposed
Homophobic bigots
Whose doing the looting in New Orleans
Death of American Democracy
Leftists facists of this era

Now you tell me Chuck - how prevelant is this?

There are times when discretion is the better part of valor - this is
one of them.

Looks like there's some housekeeping for somebody to do over at the
civil war forum.

Here's where you and I disagree. Outrageous behavior should not be
tolerated simply because it is widespread. We're down to just a couple
of guys with an "F the group attitude, my need to get my personal
political rocks off trumps any benefit that others might extract from a
functional, on topic newsgroup"

Do rec.boats and the civil war group have something in common?
Hmmm..........
All sorts of political fighting going on and look at the 6th item on
that list. (!)
Could it be? Really? Naw, I'm just going to think it's a coincidence

How's your memory Tom? You know it wasn't all that long ago that the
subject list in rec.boats read pretty much the same way. Please don't
tell me you don't see a difference
between a group where people have voluntarily refrained from posting
political crap (for the most part) and the bad old days here when that
was the main reason a lot of folks hung around.

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 19:55:16 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:45:32 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On 19 Oct 2006 10:09:10 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:

Not at all. But when I wanted to discuss, say, the history of the
American Civil War I would go to a Civil War newsgroup or forum. When I
want to talk about politics, I would go to a political newsgroup or
forum.


Good point.

When I'm hungry for Chinese food, I don't go into an Italian restaurant
and start demanding that somebody better darn well put Sweet and Sour
Pork on the menu, I go to the Chinese joint.

Speaking of which, here's a bit of related OT humor that I ran into
the other day:

http://webpages.marshall.edu/~will2/chowmein.swf

ROTFL!!!

Ok, I've never seen that one.

It's a keeper.

Wayne, thanks from me too. I missed your OP or I'd have done so then.

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 20:26:44 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On 19 Oct 2006 10:09:10 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:


basskisser wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Jim" wrote in message
ink.net...
_ _ _ Oops! One got away. ~

We could write to his magazine, but he probably reads all the mail. :-(
He'd censor us.

Not at all. However, it's a boating magazine so judging by your
performance in the NG you would have little or no interest in it and
wouldn't have anything to say that could possibly be relevant to our
readers.

Chuck do you really think that someone has to think about, write about,
dream about boats 24/7 just because they are interested in them? I have
a boat, really like it, love being on it, etc. But I also have other
interests. Do you constantly talk about your boat when you are on it?


Not at all. But when I wanted to discuss, say, the history of the
American Civil War I would go to a Civil War newsgroup or forum. When I
want to talk about politics, I would go to a political newsgroup or
forum.

Just to prove a point, I went to the alt.civil.war.usa newsgroup for a
quick sampling.

In just one minute I had the following headers:

Clash of bigots continues
Laura Bush murdered her favorite boyfriends
The one trillion dollar war
Meshuga ****tard Ohara
Neo Conservatives in the news
Bassy the bigot exposed
Homophobic bigots
Whose doing the looting in New Orleans
Death of American Democracy
Leftists facists of this era

Now you tell me Chuck - how prevelant is this?

There are times when discretion is the better part of valor - this is
one of them.

Two (or more) wrongs make a 'right'?

On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 00:29:45 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On 19 Oct 2006 17:11:57 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:


Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

Just to prove a point, I went to the alt.civil.war.usa newsgroup for a
quick sampling.

In just one minute I had the following headers:

Clash of bigots continues
Laura Bush murdered her favorite boyfriends
The one trillion dollar war
Meshuga ****tard Ohara
Neo Conservatives in the news
Bassy the bigot exposed
Homophobic bigots
Whose doing the looting in New Orleans
Death of American Democracy
Leftists facists of this era

Now you tell me Chuck - how prevelant is this?

There are times when discretion is the better part of valor - this is
one of them.

Looks like there's some housekeeping for somebody to do over at the
civil war forum.

Here's where you and I disagree. Outrageous behavior should not be
tolerated simply because it is widespread. We're down to just a couple
of guys with an "F the group attitude, my need to get my personal
political rocks off trumps any benefit that others might extract from a
functional, on topic newsgroup"

Do rec.boats and the civil war group have something in common?
Hmmm..........
All sorts of political fighting going on and look at the 6th item on
that list. (!)
Could it be? Really? Naw, I'm just going to think it's a coincidence

How's your memory Tom? You know it wasn't all that long ago that the
subject list in rec.boats read pretty much the same way. Please don't
tell me you don't see a difference
between a group where people have voluntarily refrained from posting
political crap (for the most part) and the bad old days here when that
was the main reason a lot of folks hung around.

No and I agree with you with respect to the generally uncivil and
totally uncalled for behavior of some posters with respect to
off-topic posting.

Where you and I disagree is that I believe that calm, civilized
discussion on topics that may hold interest to all is healthy and not
at all offensive in particular when there is a dearth of boating
topics on a slow or maybe even a dull day.

It's a measure of degree - I can tolerate off-topic discussion as long
as the discussion remain on a rational level where points are made,
counters are presented and the discussion moves along maybe even
reaching some kind of agreement on things.

I can also tolerate nonsense posts because I enjoy looking at what
others consider funny or humorous. And it kind of lightens things up a
little.

Consider - there are posts and posters here that I avoid if only
because it is useless to attempt conversation or discussion - it's
their way or the highway and ideology takes precedence over common
sense.

On the other hand, there are others here who I engage because I know
it's not personal and that while we may hold differing opinions on the
issues of the day, we can at least keep it civil.

I totally understand your point, but to me, you are confusing bad
behavior with off-topic and I believe they are exclusive of each
other. Bad actors will behave badly if it's a boating post or not -
being off-topic does not produce bad behavior.

Perhaps it's a question of expectations - I don't know.

Many OT threads can go for days without inflammatory posts or name calling.

However, a political or religious thread that doesn't devolve to same
within about five posts is extremely rare.

Could that be the reason Chuck, et al (including me), keep referring to OT
*political and/or religious* posts and not your typical off-the-wall OT
post?

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 09:14:32 -0400, JohnH wrote:

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 20:26:44 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On 19 Oct 2006 10:09:10 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:


basskisser wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Jim" wrote in message
ink.net...
_ _ _ Oops! One got away. ~

We could write to his magazine, but he probably reads all the mail. :-(
He'd censor us.

Not at all. However, it's a boating magazine so judging by your
performance in the NG you would have little or no interest in it and
wouldn't have anything to say that could possibly be relevant to our
readers.

Chuck do you really think that someone has to think about, write about,
dream about boats 24/7 just because they are interested in them? I have
a boat, really like it, love being on it, etc. But I also have other
interests. Do you constantly talk about your boat when you are on it?


Not at all. But when I wanted to discuss, say, the history of the
American Civil War I would go to a Civil War newsgroup or forum. When I
want to talk about politics, I would go to a political newsgroup or
forum.

Just to prove a point, I went to the alt.civil.war.usa newsgroup for a
quick sampling.

In just one minute I had the following headers:

Clash of bigots continues
Laura Bush murdered her favorite boyfriends
The one trillion dollar war
Meshuga ****tard Ohara
Neo Conservatives in the news
Bassy the bigot exposed
Homophobic bigots
Whose doing the looting in New Orleans
Death of American Democracy
Leftists facists of this era

Now you tell me Chuck - how prevelant is this?

There are times when discretion is the better part of valor - this is
one of them.

Two (or more) wrongs make a 'right'?

Not at all - it's just a demonstration that it's more than just here
that this occurs and that given the history of Usenet, not unusual.

Does that mean it can't change - no.

As I said in my other reply to you, boats, boats, boats 24/7/365 is
silly and unrealistic.


Absolutely agree. A variety of interests is healthy. When in the mood
to converse about other interests beyond boating, there are NG's and
other forums set up for that specific purpose.

There are now a gazillion blogs on-line, and for folks who feel
compelled to keep a publicly accessible journal of their daily life
that seems to be a really appropriate format.

Folks who want to talk about politics, the war on terror, etc etc etc
have a lot of groups available as well. When visiting the "Liberals are
Trying to Destroy Christianity!" site or the
"Conservatives are Trying to Neuter the Bill of Rights!" site, I wonder
how many of the discussions there are interrupted by people who insist
about talking boats? :-)

Boats all day everyday is not healthy. People should seek appropriate
venues for other activities as well.

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
snip
Participants like you and Chuck have a good point - I don't deny that.
However, my approach, and my suggestion, is not to engage, but (1)
ignore or (2) have some fun with the post.

I'll say this again because I think it's an important point. There is
a place for civilized, rational and polite discussion of issues that
affect us all. Boats, boats, boats 24/7/365 is a completely and
totally unrealistic goal.

I like Chuck and I enjoy his presentations of boats he reviews. He
edits a top notch magazine and I enjoy that also - he has been kind
enough to send me the magazine and I actually look for it on a monthly
basis.

However, his approach to boating and my approach to boating are
completely different. His posts regarding cruising level boats, while
interesting, are not relevant to my boating experience - he's a large
boat cruiser and I'm a small boat speed freak and fisherman. Doesn't
mean that I don't appreciate his efforts, we just don't enjoy the
hobby in the same way.

On the other hand, Chuck has some opinions on issues that are similar
to mine. Not all, but some. I would like to explore that commonality
and would engage others who share similar opinions. I think that
Chuck's approach to rec.boats is limited and short sighted.

I think it can be a much better place if we all work to make it a
better place by being civilized and not use rancor to issue political
ideology rants or personal bashings based on past issues.

Yesterday is yesterday - tomorrow never comes.

We have today and if we limit how we engage others to strictly one
subject, then we are all poorer for it.

snip..

Well said. We do have a number of people in here who earn their living
from boating who could be called professional boaters vs quite a few who
may be weekend warriors in a very short season.
Should these 'professionals' elevate themselves to an 'all
seeing/knowing eye' at the very apex of the wrecked.boats triangle?

Chuck Gould wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 09:14:32 -0400, JohnH wrote:

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 20:26:44 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On 19 Oct 2006 10:09:10 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:


basskisser wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Jim" wrote in message
ink.net...
_ _ _ Oops! One got away. ~

We could write to his magazine, but he probably reads all the mail. :-(
He'd censor us.

Not at all. However, it's a boating magazine so judging by your
performance in the NG you would have little or no interest in it and
wouldn't have anything to say that could possibly be relevant to our
readers.

Chuck do you really think that someone has to think about, write about,
dream about boats 24/7 just because they are interested in them? I have
a boat, really like it, love being on it, etc. But I also have other
interests. Do you constantly talk about your boat when you are on it?


Not at all. But when I wanted to discuss, say, the history of the
American Civil War I would go to a Civil War newsgroup or forum. When I
want to talk about politics, I would go to a political newsgroup or
forum.

Just to prove a point, I went to the alt.civil.war.usa newsgroup for a
quick sampling.

In just one minute I had the following headers:

Clash of bigots continues
Laura Bush murdered her favorite boyfriends
The one trillion dollar war
Meshuga ****tard Ohara
Neo Conservatives in the news
Bassy the bigot exposed
Homophobic bigots
Whose doing the looting in New Orleans
Death of American Democracy
Leftists facists of this era

Now you tell me Chuck - how prevelant is this?

There are times when discretion is the better part of valor - this is
one of them.

Two (or more) wrongs make a 'right'?

Not at all - it's just a demonstration that it's more than just here
that this occurs and that given the history of Usenet, not unusual.

Does that mean it can't change - no.

As I said in my other reply to you, boats, boats, boats 24/7/365 is
silly and unrealistic.


Absolutely agree. A variety of interests is healthy. When in the mood
to converse about other interests beyond boating, there are NG's and
other forums set up for that specific purpose.

There are now a gazillion blogs on-line, and for folks who feel
compelled to keep a publicly accessible journal of their daily life
that seems to be a really appropriate format.

Folks who want to talk about politics, the war on terror, etc etc etc
have a lot of groups available as well. When visiting the "Liberals are
Trying to Destroy Christianity!" site or the
"Conservatives are Trying to Neuter the Bill of Rights!" site, I wonder
how many of the discussions there are interrupted by people who insist
about talking boats? :-)

Boats all day everyday is not healthy. People should seek appropriate
venues for other activities as well.

What strikes me as funny, is the fact that you are using more bandwidth
whining about off topic posting than the off topic posts themselves!
Also, why does it bother you so much? Don't read what you don't want to
read, it's as simple as that!

Don White wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
snip
Participants like you and Chuck have a good point - I don't deny that.
However, my approach, and my suggestion, is not to engage, but (1)
ignore or (2) have some fun with the post.

I'll say this again because I think it's an important point. There is
a place for civilized, rational and polite discussion of issues that
affect us all. Boats, boats, boats 24/7/365 is a completely and
totally unrealistic goal.

I like Chuck and I enjoy his presentations of boats he reviews. He
edits a top notch magazine and I enjoy that also - he has been kind
enough to send me the magazine and I actually look for it on a monthly
basis.

However, his approach to boating and my approach to boating are
completely different. His posts regarding cruising level boats, while
interesting, are not relevant to my boating experience - he's a large
boat cruiser and I'm a small boat speed freak and fisherman. Doesn't
mean that I don't appreciate his efforts, we just don't enjoy the
hobby in the same way.

On the other hand, Chuck has some opinions on issues that are similar
to mine. Not all, but some. I would like to explore that commonality
and would engage others who share similar opinions. I think that
Chuck's approach to rec.boats is limited and short sighted.

I think it can be a much better place if we all work to make it a
better place by being civilized and not use rancor to issue political
ideology rants or personal bashings based on past issues.
Yesterday is yesterday - tomorrow never comes.

We have today and if we limit how we engage others to strictly one
subject, then we are all poorer for it.

snip..

Well said. We do have a number of people in here who earn their living
from boating who could be called professional boaters vs quite a few who
may be weekend warriors in a very short season.
Should these 'professionals' elevate themselves to an 'all
seeing/knowing eye' at the very apex of the wrecked.boats triangle?

Don,
Don't you agree that the name calling, petty fighting, us vs them
mentality that used to be so pervasive in rec.boats sucked. All it did
was chase away people who might have wanted to discuss boats.

Chuck can not control this NG, he can point out those who are obviously
trolling for a fight, and highlight what happened when rec.boats was
dominated by this activity.

Do you disagree that inflammatory posts and/or cut and paste trolls have
a negative effect on the NG?

On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 15:06:51 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:




Many OT threads can go for days without inflammatory posts or name calling.

True, but some are determined to get their points across and will
blame this or that on them or they and it degenerates.

That's what I mean about bad behavior.

However, a political or religious thread that doesn't devolve to same
within about five posts is extremely rare.

That's because they are designed to do that - bad behavior.

Then let's agree that bad behavior is what Chuck is trying to keep out of
the group.

Could that be the reason Chuck, et al (including me), keep referring to OT
*political and/or religious* posts and not your typical off-the-wall OT
post?

Perhaps. I still think it's a disconnect between types of behavior
and the willingness to dispute any and all issues. Or the willingness
make a post just for the sake of starting an argument.

Well, why would anyone here post political posts, especially cut'n'pastes,
if *not* for the sake of starting an argument. Is it simply a charitable
desire on their part to help educate those here who can't read?

There is one poster here who does it all the time - on anything and
for any reason - and the participants who fall for the bait presented
are just as bad as the original poster if only because they know why
it was posted and react to it anyway.

And vice-versa for the one poster and for the bait takers.

Participants like you and Chuck have a good point - I don't deny that.
However, my approach, and my suggestion, is not to engage, but (1)
ignore or (2) have some fun with the post.

I'll say this again because I think it's an important point. There is
a place for civilized, rational and polite discussion of issues that
affect us all. Boats, boats, boats 24/7/365 is a completely and
totally unrealistic goal.

And I don't disagree. The current amateur radio thread is an example of a
post only peripherally boating related, but civilized, rational, and
polite. The vast majority of off-topic posts, except those which are
political/religious, meet those criteria. The vast majority of
political/religilous posts quickly become uncivil, irrational, and most
impolite.

I like Chuck and I enjoy his presentations of boats he reviews. He
edits a top notch magazine and I enjoy that also - he has been kind
enough to send me the magazine and I actually look for it on a monthly
basis.

However, his approach to boating and my approach to boating are
completely different. His posts regarding cruising level boats, while
interesting, are not relevant to my boating experience - he's a large
boat cruiser and I'm a small boat speed freak and fisherman. Doesn't
mean that I don't appreciate his efforts, we just don't enjoy the
hobby in the same way.

Ditto.

On the other hand, Chuck has some opinions on issues that are similar
to mine. Not all, but some. I would like to explore that commonality
and would engage others who share similar opinions. I think that
Chuck's approach to rec.boats is limited and short sighted.

If Chuck is opposed to any and all posts which are not directly on topic,
then I'd agree with you. I think Chuck is referring primarily to political
and religious posts which are known to cause conflict 99% of the time.

I think it can be a much better place if we all work to make it a
better place by being civilized and not use rancor to issue political
ideology rants or personal bashings based on past issues.

And, if we all left out the political/religious posts, it probably would
become such a place.

Yesterday is yesterday - tomorrow never comes.

We have today and if we limit how we engage others to strictly one
subject, then we are all poorer for it.

Agreed.