Speaking of cars...
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
My lovely wife informed me the other day that she "really likes" the new
little Mustangs and might want to buy one.

She's looking at a 2007 "V6 Premium," with the 4 liter V6, 5-speed auto,
and anti-lock brakes with traction control, and a bunch of other
accessories. Our local dealer is more than willing to "make a deal."

Any thoughts about this vehicle as an "everyday car?" Most of my wife's
driving is suburban, with very few trips of more than, say, 50 miles.

I drove such a vehicle recently and thought the power-brakes-handling were
more than adequate. Any ideas about gas mileage, reliability, that sort of
thing?

I'd prefer she buy a new top of the line Toyota, but she wants something
sportier.

Wimmins!

She'll probably get similar mileage with the 4.7L V8 and it'll make it a
lot "sportier".

Eisboch

Speaking of cars...
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
My lovely wife informed me the other day that she "really likes" the new
little Mustangs and might want to buy one.

She's looking at a 2007 "V6 Premium," with the 4 liter V6, 5-speed auto,
and anti-lock brakes with traction control, and a bunch of other
accessories. Our local dealer is more than willing to "make a deal."

Wimmins!


She'll probably get similar mileage with the 4.7L V8 and it'll make it a
lot "sportier".

Eisboch


Goofed. It's a 4.6L

Eisboch

Speaking of cars...
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..


I'd still rather she went with a Toyota.

Toyota has gone almost full circle. They are currently in the recovery
phase of poor quality, numerous recalls and the decline of their good
reputation. Just like the American automobile industry did.

Eisboch

Speaking of cars...
 

Harry Krause wrote:
On 10/13/2006 11:25 AM, Eisboch wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..

I'd still rather she went with a Toyota.


Toyota has gone almost full circle. They are currently in the
recovery phase of poor quality, numerous recalls and the decline of
their good reputation. Just like the American automobile industry did.

Eisboch



I suppose. I have a 2004 on which I have not had to spend a nickel,
beyond normal maintenance items. Nothing has broken or even worked loose.

I suscribe to Consumer Reports and the main Toyota vehicles i would be
interested in are always at the top of the pack.
that is.. Sienna, Tundra, Corolla, Highlander, RAV4 and I expect the new
RAV6

Speaking of cars...
 

"Don White" wrote in message
...


I suscribe to Consumer Reports and the main Toyota vehicles i would be
interested in are always at the top of the pack.
that is.. Sienna, Tundra, Corolla, Highlander, RAV4 and I expect the new
RAV6

Consumer Reports has a "thing" with Toyota and has for years.

Eisboch

Speaking of cars...
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..


I'd still rather she went with a Toyota.

Toyota has gone almost full circle. They are currently in the recovery
phase of poor quality, numerous recalls and the decline of their good
reputation. Just like the American automobile industry did.

Eisboch


Yeah, but it didn't take Toyota 25 years, including a period of denial and
depending on stupid appeals to patriotism.

Speaking of cars...
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Don White" wrote in message
...


I suscribe to Consumer Reports and the main Toyota vehicles i would be
interested in are always at the top of the pack.
that is.. Sienna, Tundra, Corolla, Highlander, RAV4 and I expect the new
RAV6

Consumer Reports has a "thing" with Toyota and has for years.

Eisboch


Yeah. The "thing" is that when they compare brand new cars, they still find
more little defects in GM, Ford & Chrysler cars. Even if it's just a crooked
kick panel, it should make people wonder what else was done carelessly.

Speaking of cars...
 

Eisboch wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..


I'd still rather she went with a Toyota.


Toyota has gone almost full circle. They are currently in the recovery
phase of poor quality, numerous recalls and the decline of their good
reputation. Just like the American automobile industry did.

Eisboch



Could be in part that Toyota is as American as many "American" cars
these days, many are built here now. That said I've been impressed with
the fit & finish of the ones I've dealt with. Only real nag was the V6
offered in the mid 90s that liked to blow head gaskets, the 4 was damn
near indestructible if a bit underpowered. Friend of mine is on his 3rd
set of head gaskets and looking into swapping in the redesigned later V6.

Speaking of cars...
 

Yeah. The "thing" is that when they compare brand new cars, they still find
more little defects in GM, Ford & Chrysler cars. Even if it's just a crooked
kick panel, it should make people wonder what else was done carelessly.




I noticed a lot of little nags like that on a rental Ford. It really is
a shame, I'd love to be proud of cars built in this country, at one
point in time we built the best stuff in the world, now it's a miracle
we can build anything at all. Heck by the time I got to highschool the
metal and wood shops had already been shut down. Everything is being
outsourced and everyone is so obsessed with buying the absolute cheapest
anything. It's getting hard to find quality tools even, brand names are
largely irrelevant, reputable names often nothing beyond stickers
slapped on the latest Chinese junk.

Speaking of cars...
 

"James Sweet" wrote in message
news:yKTXg.45$9z6.6@trndny03...



Yeah. The "thing" is that when they compare brand new cars, they still
find more little defects in GM, Ford & Chrysler cars. Even if it's just a
crooked kick panel, it should make people wonder what else was done
carelessly.


I noticed a lot of little nags like that on a rental Ford. It really is a
shame, I'd love to be proud of cars built in this country, at one point in
time we built the best stuff in the world, now it's a miracle we can build
anything at all. Heck by the time I got to highschool the metal and wood
shops had already been shut down. Everything is being outsourced and
everyone is so obsessed with buying the absolute cheapest anything. It's
getting hard to find quality tools even, brand names are largely
irrelevant, reputable names often nothing beyond stickers slapped on the
latest Chinese junk.

I test drove a Dodge sedan - the big one - I forget the name. The panel
under the steering wheel fell off completely when I went over a bump. The
factory forgot to put the speed clips over the plastic tabs. There was
nothing for the sheet metal screws to thread into. How the thing stayed on
that long, I have no idea.

Speaking of cars...
 

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 12:10:56 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

Consumer Reports has a "thing" with Toyota and has for years.

Well, I'm a bit prejudiced I suppose since we've had two Corollas, a
Camry, and a Tundra. All have been great vehicles. The two Corollas
went close to, or over, 200K miles and were still running when we
sold them. The '92 Camry is at 200K and is still being driven by my
youngest son every day in and out of NYC. It still looks good and
runs well.

The 2002 Tundra is a youngster at 60K miles and is showing every sign
of lasting longer than I will.

I think Consumer Reports is right on the money with Toyota.

Speaking of cars...
 

Eisboch wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
My lovely wife informed me the other day that she "really likes" the new
little Mustangs and might want to buy one.

She's looking at a 2007 "V6 Premium," with the 4 liter V6, 5-speed auto,
and anti-lock brakes with traction control, and a bunch of other
accessories. Our local dealer is more than willing to "make a deal."

Wimmins!

She'll probably get similar mileage with the 4.7L V8 and it'll make it a
lot "sportier".

Eisboch


Goofed. It's a 4.6L

The need to put the Super Charged 5.4L V8 that they put in the F-150
Lighting's and chip it. Will most likely burn the rubber of the rear
tires before gaining traction.

One things Mustangs are good for when there is the slightest bit of
water, in all of its forms, and that is to look at them while they
remain parked.

Speaking of cars...
 

Eisboch wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message
...

I suscribe to Consumer Reports and the main Toyota vehicles i would be
interested in are always at the top of the pack.
that is.. Sienna, Tundra, Corolla, Highlander, RAV4 and I expect the new
RAV6

Consumer Reports has a "thing" with Toyota and has for years.

Wasn't Consumer Reports involved in a little problem with selling
ratings or some other unethical practices a few years ago?

Speaking of cars...
 

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 20:20:28 -0400, Bert Robbins wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message
...

I suscribe to Consumer Reports and the main Toyota vehicles i would be
interested in are always at the top of the pack.
that is.. Sienna, Tundra, Corolla, Highlander, RAV4 and I expect the new
RAV6

Consumer Reports has a "thing" with Toyota and has for years.

Wasn't Consumer Reports involved in a little problem with selling
ratings or some other unethical practices a few years ago?

I've been taking CR for quite a while now, and I don't recall that. Any
info on it?

Speaking of cars...
 

Bert Robbins wrote:
Eisboch wrote:

"Don White" wrote in message
...

I suscribe to Consumer Reports and the main Toyota vehicles i would
be interested in are always at the top of the pack.
that is.. Sienna, Tundra, Corolla, Highlander, RAV4 and I expect the
new RAV6


Consumer Reports has a "thing" with Toyota and has for years.


Wasn't Consumer Reports involved in a little problem with selling
ratings or some other unethical practices a few years ago?


Bull****!

Speaking of cars...
 

JohnH wrote:
On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 20:20:28 -0400, Bert Robbins wrote:


Eisboch wrote:

"Don White" wrote in message
...


I suscribe to Consumer Reports and the main Toyota vehicles i would be
interested in are always at the top of the pack.
that is.. Sienna, Tundra, Corolla, Highlander, RAV4 and I expect the new
RAV6

Consumer Reports has a "thing" with Toyota and has for years.

Wasn't Consumer Reports involved in a little problem with selling
ratings or some other unethical practices a few years ago?


I've been taking CR for quite a while now, and I don't recall that. Any
info on it?


Bert is mixed up with the story about one of the smaller SUV
manufacturers complaining when CR said their vehicle was tipsy if driven
too fast into curves.

Speaking of cars...
 

On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 01:53:03 GMT, Tom Francis wrote:

On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 01:32:38 GMT, Don White
wrote:

Bert Robbins wrote:
Eisboch wrote:

"Don White" wrote in message
...

I suscribe to Consumer Reports and the main Toyota vehicles i would
be interested in are always at the top of the pack.
that is.. Sienna, Tundra, Corolla, Highlander, RAV4 and I expect the
new RAV6

Consumer Reports has a "thing" with Toyota and has for years.

Wasn't Consumer Reports involved in a little problem with selling
ratings or some other unethical practices a few years ago?

Bull****!

No, Bert's right, but I think it was related to their methodology in
some fashion.

I seem to remember that there was a issue with working with
"purchased" cars that had been "tweaked" by engineers rather than just
walking into a show room and saying "we'll take that one" kind of a
thing.

It was a while back when it happened - maybe ten/twelve years ago or
so?

It wasn't a major issue - a kind of kerfuffle really over what was a
minor detail.

I do know that they seem to have a bias towards certain types of cars
and manufacturers.

They now buy their test vehicles off the lot just as you or I would,
according to them anyway. I would imagine they get watched pretty closely.

They seem biased towards Toyota, Honda, VW (the Passat, anyway), and a few
others who always seem to have vehicles in the top ten. Lately a Buick made
the top ten, a first (for many years anyway) for an American sedan.

It could be they're biased towards cars that perform well and are reliable.

Speaking of cars...
 

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
. ..
Eisboch wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message
...

I suscribe to Consumer Reports and the main Toyota vehicles i would be
interested in are always at the top of the pack.
that is.. Sienna, Tundra, Corolla, Highlander, RAV4 and I expect the new
RAV6

Consumer Reports has a "thing" with Toyota and has for years.

Wasn't Consumer Reports involved in a little problem with selling ratings
or some other unethical practices a few years ago?

Consumer Reports ratings become a little suspect when they continue to rave
about a certain vehicle while the manufacturer is issuing massive recalls
and owners are complaining about quality issues. Toyota went through a
period of this (as do all manufacturers from time to time) but Consumer
Reports never blinked in their ratings.

Eisboch

Speaking of cars...
 

Eisboch wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message
...

I suscribe to Consumer Reports and the main Toyota vehicles i would be
interested in are always at the top of the pack.
that is.. Sienna, Tundra, Corolla, Highlander, RAV4 and I expect the new
RAV6

Consumer Reports has a "thing" with Toyota and has for years.

Eisboch



I have always been leary of CR, but when I looked at MSN consumer
reviews, Toyota still had great reviews, a 8.1 from users.

Then I checked Honda and they had a 9.3.

Toyota and Honda used to run neck and neck, it appears Honda has jumped
ahead in the mid-size sedan.

Speaking of cars...
 

On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 08:40:26 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message
...

I suscribe to Consumer Reports and the main Toyota vehicles i would be
interested in are always at the top of the pack.
that is.. Sienna, Tundra, Corolla, Highlander, RAV4 and I expect the new
RAV6

Consumer Reports has a "thing" with Toyota and has for years.

Eisboch



I have always been leary of CR, but when I looked at MSN consumer
reviews, Toyota still had great reviews, a 8.1 from users.

Then I checked Honda and they had a 9.3.

Toyota and Honda used to run neck and neck, it appears Honda has jumped
ahead in the mid-size sedan.

I've found Consumer Reports online to be a valuable source of information
on a range of products.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/index.htm

It also makes me popular with family and friends who call wanting the
latest info!

Speaking of cars...
 

On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 13:00:27 GMT, Tom Francis wrote:

On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 08:40:26 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message
...

I suscribe to Consumer Reports and the main Toyota vehicles i would be
interested in are always at the top of the pack.
that is.. Sienna, Tundra, Corolla, Highlander, RAV4 and I expect the new
RAV6

Consumer Reports has a "thing" with Toyota and has for years.

I have always been leary of CR, but when I looked at MSN consumer
reviews, Toyota still had great reviews, a 8.1 from users.

Then I checked Honda and they had a 9.3.

Toyota and Honda used to run neck and neck, it appears Honda has jumped
ahead in the mid-size sedan.

That's entirely subjective and a matter of perception.

Have you checked out Telemarketer's Nightmare 'over there'? I definitely
thought of you when I put it there.

Speaking of cars...
 

JohnH wrote:
On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 08:40:26 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:


Eisboch wrote:

"Don White" wrote in message
...


I suscribe to Consumer Reports and the main Toyota vehicles i would be
interested in are always at the top of the pack.
that is.. Sienna, Tundra, Corolla, Highlander, RAV4 and I expect the new
RAV6

Consumer Reports has a "thing" with Toyota and has for years.

Eisboch



I have always been leary of CR, but when I looked at MSN consumer
reviews, Toyota still had great reviews, a 8.1 from users.

Then I checked Honda and they had a 9.3.

Toyota and Honda used to run neck and neck, it appears Honda has jumped
ahead in the mid-size sedan.


I've found Consumer Reports online to be a valuable source of information
on a range of products.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/index.htm

It also makes me popular with family and friends who call wanting the
latest info!


Same here. My sister sends my nices to me for an 'insider' opinion.
One bought the Toyota Sienna minivan after I pointed out CR's ratings.
One brother-in-law is still a hard sell though. He's mostly mad because
the local Toyota dealers are all owned by the same company and they
refuse to dicker.

Speaking of cars...
 

On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 13:23:52 GMT, Don White wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 08:40:26 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:


Eisboch wrote:

"Don White" wrote in message
...


I suscribe to Consumer Reports and the main Toyota vehicles i would be
interested in are always at the top of the pack.
that is.. Sienna, Tundra, Corolla, Highlander, RAV4 and I expect the new
RAV6

Consumer Reports has a "thing" with Toyota and has for years.

Eisboch



I have always been leary of CR, but when I looked at MSN consumer
reviews, Toyota still had great reviews, a 8.1 from users.

Then I checked Honda and they had a 9.3.

Toyota and Honda used to run neck and neck, it appears Honda has jumped
ahead in the mid-size sedan.


I've found Consumer Reports online to be a valuable source of information
on a range of products.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/index.htm

It also makes me popular with family and friends who call wanting the
latest info!


Same here. My sister sends my nices to me for an 'insider' opinion.
One bought the Toyota Sienna minivan after I pointed out CR's ratings.
One brother-in-law is still a hard sell though. He's mostly mad because
the local Toyota dealers are all owned by the same company and they
refuse to dicker.

Both my daughters have the Honda Odyssey (sp?), but they got the info a few
years ago!

Speaking of cars...
 

Tom Francis wrote:
On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 08:40:26 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message
...

I suscribe to Consumer Reports and the main Toyota vehicles i would be
interested in are always at the top of the pack.
that is.. Sienna, Tundra, Corolla, Highlander, RAV4 and I expect the new
RAV6
Consumer Reports has a "thing" with Toyota and has for years.
I have always been leary of CR, but when I looked at MSN consumer
reviews, Toyota still had great reviews, a 8.1 from users.

Then I checked Honda and they had a 9.3.

Toyota and Honda used to run neck and neck, it appears Honda has jumped
ahead in the mid-size sedan.

That's entirely subjective and a matter of perception.

Sure it is, it is a subjective evaluation based upon whatever priorities
each owner places on their car. But then again, how many consumer
reviews are not subjective and based upon perception.

If you look at JD Powers you will see that even though they have gone ot
great lengths to break down the reviews into specific segments you will
see they are still very subjective and based upon perception.

Speaking of cars...
 

Bert Robbins wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message
...

I suscribe to Consumer Reports and the main Toyota vehicles i would be
interested in are always at the top of the pack.
that is.. Sienna, Tundra, Corolla, Highlander, RAV4 and I expect the new
RAV6

Consumer Reports has a "thing" with Toyota and has for years.

Wasn't Consumer Reports involved in a little problem with selling
ratings or some other unethical practices a few years ago?

No.

Speaking of cars...
 

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message
...

I suscribe to Consumer Reports and the main Toyota vehicles i would
be interested in are always at the top of the pack.
that is.. Sienna, Tundra, Corolla, Highlander, RAV4 and I expect the
new RAV6

Consumer Reports has a "thing" with Toyota and has for years.

Eisboch


I have always been leary of CR, but when I looked at MSN consumer
reviews, Toyota still had great reviews, a 8.1 from users.

CR does not always test the items in the manner that they are used in
over time. With small appliances the ratings are irrelevant due to the
low purchase cost and the hight maintenance cost. The wife just go a new
motor put into the vacuum cleaner for about $129 with $50 of it being
labor. Most likely we should have bought a new one.

Then I checked Honda and they had a 9.3.

I want to see rantings of the products over their expected life span.
With a care you need to come to me after 4 or 5 years and ask me what is
good and what sucks.

I laugh every time I hear about the JD Power Initial Quality ratings
being cited by car companies and car dealerships. Two or three months
with a car is not long enough to evaluate quality and if anything breaks
in the first six months the car company should be forced to purchase the
car back with interest.

Toyota and Honda used to run neck and neck, it appears Honda has jumped
ahead in the mid-size sedan.


I have owned a Honda but never a Toyota. If Honda ever comes out with a
Honda build truck, not that silly thing they are selling that people
thing is a truck, I would buy one.

Speaking of cars...
 

Bert Robbins wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message
...

I suscribe to Consumer Reports and the main Toyota vehicles i would
be interested in are always at the top of the pack.
that is.. Sienna, Tundra, Corolla, Highlander, RAV4 and I expect the
new RAV6

Consumer Reports has a "thing" with Toyota and has for years.

Eisboch


I have always been leary of CR, but when I looked at MSN consumer
reviews, Toyota still had great reviews, a 8.1 from users.

CR does not always test the items in the manner that they are used in
over time. With small appliances the ratings are irrelevant due to the
low purchase cost and the hight maintenance cost. The wife just go a new
motor put into the vacuum cleaner for about $129 with $50 of it being
labor. Most likely we should have bought a new one.

One of the nice things about MSN Auto user reviews is you can look at
the reviews for a specific brand and model for a specific year (ie your
4 or 5 yr old car). CR reviews are based upon a very limited sample.
If they get a lemon to test, or they get a great product for their test,
it does not necessary reflect what the majority of users will buy.

Speaking of cars...
 

Harry Krause wrote:
On 10/13/2006 9:28 AM, Eisboch wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..

My lovely wife informed me the other day that she "really likes" the
new little Mustangs and might want to buy one.

She's looking at a 2007 "V6 Premium," with the 4 liter V6, 5-speed
auto, and anti-lock brakes with traction control, and a bunch of
other accessories. Our local dealer is more than willing to "make a
deal."

Any thoughts about this vehicle as an "everyday car?" Most of my
wife's driving is suburban, with very few trips of more than, say, 50
miles.

I drove such a vehicle recently and thought the power-brakes-handling
were more than adequate. Any ideas about gas mileage, reliability,
that sort of thing?

I'd prefer she buy a new top of the line Toyota, but she wants
something sportier.

Wimmins!


She'll probably get similar mileage with the 4.7L V8 and it'll make
it a lot "sportier".

Eisboch



She's a woman. To her, a sporty car is one that looks sporty. It doesn't
have to act sporty.

I'd still rather she went with a Toyota.

Odd choice from a union man...

Speaking of cars...
 

Dan wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:
On 10/13/2006 9:28 AM, Eisboch wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..

My lovely wife informed me the other day that she "really likes" the
new little Mustangs and might want to buy one.

She's looking at a 2007 "V6 Premium," with the 4 liter V6, 5-speed
auto, and anti-lock brakes with traction control, and a bunch of
other accessories. Our local dealer is more than willing to "make a
deal."

Any thoughts about this vehicle as an "everyday car?" Most of my
wife's driving is suburban, with very few trips of more than, say,
50 miles.

I drove such a vehicle recently and thought the
power-brakes-handling were more than adequate. Any ideas about gas
mileage, reliability, that sort of thing?

I'd prefer she buy a new top of the line Toyota, but she wants
something sportier.

Wimmins!


She'll probably get similar mileage with the 4.7L V8 and it'll make
it a lot "sportier".

Eisboch



She's a woman. To her, a sporty car is one that looks sporty. It
doesn't have to act sporty.

I'd still rather she went with a Toyota.

Odd choice from a union man...

Harry is a union man until it comes to his wallet.

Speaking of cars...
 

Bert Robbins wrote:

Dan wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

On 10/13/2006 9:28 AM, Eisboch wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..

My lovely wife informed me the other day that she "really likes"
the new little Mustangs and might want to buy one.

She's looking at a 2007 "V6 Premium," with the 4 liter V6, 5-speed
auto, and anti-lock brakes with traction control, and a bunch of
other accessories. Our local dealer is more than willing to "make a
deal."

Any thoughts about this vehicle as an "everyday car?" Most of my
wife's driving is suburban, with very few trips of more than, say,
50 miles.

I drove such a vehicle recently and thought the
power-brakes-handling were more than adequate. Any ideas about gas
mileage, reliability, that sort of thing?

I'd prefer she buy a new top of the line Toyota, but she wants
something sportier.

Wimmins!



She'll probably get similar mileage with the 4.7L V8 and it'll make
it a lot "sportier".

Eisboch



She's a woman. To her, a sporty car is one that looks sporty. It
doesn't have to act sporty.

I'd still rather she went with a Toyota.


Odd choice from a union man...


Harry is a union man until it comes to his wallet.

Don't expect a response.