Calif Bill wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
wrote:
On 9 Oct 2006 18:58:06 -0700, "
wrote:

OK. If I need to remove the propeller in order to replace the
impeller, I will have to find a way to remove the propeller.


STOP
You don't need to remove the prop for this.
You take out those bolts, drop the foot with prop still in place and
replace the impeller. It slides down the driive shaft and is nowhere
near the prop.

Getting it off might be easier now than when you break a prop but be
careful you don't want to break something you don't need to right now.
You have a very good chance of trashing a seal when you are removing
the prop if you don't have the right tool. There is also a chance of
wiping the hub, even if you do have the pulller.

Thanks for informing me that I really don't need to remove the
propeller. Then I can do that later or next spring instead of clamping
all these tasks in one weekend. I probably will still attempt to
remove the propeller by soaking it with WD40. But honestly I am not
expecting a miracle -- the propeller is quite stuck; there is quite a
good chance that I need to bring it to a dealer.

Jay Chan


WD-40 is about the lowest thing on the list to use to free up stuck stuff.
Liquid Wrench, PB Blaster is what I use, and lots of other things work much
better than WD-40.

Thanks for the suggestion of using Liquid Wrench. This product name
sounds familiar to me. I will also look for PB Blaster.

Jay Chan

wrote in message
ups.com...
wrote:
On 10 Oct 2006 09:49:24 -0700, "
wrote:

I probably will still attempt to
remove the propeller by soaking it with WD40. But honestly I am not
expecting a miracle -- the propeller is quite stuck; there is quite a
good chance that I need to bring it to a dealer.


Use PB Blaster or something more suited than WD40. Just be careful not
to get mad at it and break something. You could end up rebuilding the
foot $$$, just to get a prop off that was working fine there. Look at
the bright side, nobody is stealing it.
I had one seriously stuck and the dealer heated it until the rubber
melted and used a puller on the center hub after the prop came off.
The problem was they also trashed the seal. They said it was already
bad but it wasn't leaking before they screwed with it.

Thanks for the suggestion. I will go to a marine store to look for PB
Blaster or something similar.

Jay Chan
\

Go to an autoparts store. Better selection and cheaper.

No, I really don't want to DIY repair the motor. As mentioned in
another of my post in this thread, I am fixing the rotten core of the
deck and the deck core is exposed, and is not in the position to bring
the boat to a mechanic and risk getting rain water inside the deck
again. I just want to do enough on the motor to be able to finish
winterizing it. Next spring or later when I am done with fixing the
deck, I will bring the motor to a marine mechanic (my boatowner
neighbor has recommended a really good mechanica in my area) and have
the motor checked out and also to look into a few things.

Thanks for the suggestion of a couple good reference books for
maintaining motors. Also thanks for suggesting to buy those books from
eBay at a low price.

Jay Chan


wrote:
Jay, it's a shame you wern't able to use it this year.

If you would still like to do-it-yourself repairs on the engine, which
at this point I really wouldn't recommend. (If I were in your position
, I'd take it to a reputable mechanic).

BUT, i would get a repair manual for that model or series of engines.
like a "Peterson", "Chiltons" or "Motors" or likewise book that you
could study really well, A book that will tell you in great detail on
how to even overhaul your engine if necessary. A vast amount of
knowledge can be found in these books. just for if anything else, a
reference point. You can find these books at about any boat
dealership, or what i did was bought an almost brand new manual for my
mercruiser off Ebay, for less than half price of what the stores
wanted.

For my book, the dealership retail price was about $49.00. I bought
mine with a high bid of $18.00 plus $3.75 s&h.



wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
I left the boat in the driveway for one year without starting the
motor. Today, I put the lower unit into a bucket of water, and start
the motor to winterize it.

Jay, just out of curiosity, if you haven't used the boat in a year,
then why are you deciding to winterize it at this time?

According to what yoyu say, it must have sat all through the colder
winter months of last year,a nd the first part of this year.

why now?

The reason of winterizing the motor even without using it for a year
is:

Last fall when I winterized the motor, I didn't run the fuel
system dry. I ran the motor for 5 minutes to let treated fuel get
inside the fuel system and then I shut down the motor. This means
there is still fuel inside the fuel system of the motor. Although the
fuel was treated with stablizer, it will only be good for one year. If
I didn't winterize the motor now, by next spring the treated fuel would
have sat in the fuel system for 17 months -- that would be 5 months
longer than what the treated fuel is supposed to last. This is the
reason why I need to winterize the motor now.

Jay Chan

wrote:
I left the boat in the driveway for one year without starting the
motor. Today, I put the lower unit into a bucket of water, and start
the motor to winterize it. After trying to start it for a couple
times, I finally manage to start it. Unfortunately, I cannot see the
telltail water stream coming out from the motor cooling system. All I
see is some smoke coming from the hole where the water stream is
supposed to come out from. Despite the fact that the motor temperature
was not overheating (only run it for 30 seconds or so), I decided to
turn off the motor just to be in the safe side.

My question is:

Should I expect to see the telltail water stream coming out from the
motor as soon as I start the motor? Does the motor need to reach a
certain temperature before the water stream coming out? The boatowner
manual said this:

"2. If engine is cold, run engine for 1 or 2 minutes ...
3. After engine has warmed up, check water temperature
gauge to ensure that engine temperature is not
abnormally high... Check that water is running from
the tell-tail on the back of the engine..."

This seems to suggest that the telltail water stream may not come out
if the engine is not warm enough. Considering the fact that the
overheating warning horn doesn't sound, the cooling system may not
really have a problem.

However, the Mercury Operation & Maintenance Manual for my 1995 Mercury
115hp outboard said this differently:

"10 Turn ignition key to START ...re-prime until engine
is running smoothly.
11 Check for a steady stream of water flowing out
of the water pump indicator hole.
IMPORTANT: If no water is coming out of the water
pump indicator hole, stop engine..."

This surely seems like I should expect to see telltail water stream
coming out as soon as I start the engine.

Now, I am really confused with this conflicting info. Obviously, I
don't want to risk overheating the motor. Can someone help me with
this?

Thanks in advance for any info.

Jay Chan

I thought the impeller was damaged and could not push water through the
telltail. Last weekend, I opened up the impeller and found that it is
in very good shape. Now, I really don't know why I cannot see the
telltail water stream when I start the motor.

At this point, this problem is beyond my skill level. I will bring the
motor to the dealer next spring and let them to fix it. Meanwhile, I
can only finish half the winterizing process (fuel system is only
partially winterized). I will just have to try my luck and hope that
some of the treated fuel managed to get into the fuel system of the
motor when I ran the motor for 30 seconds two weeks ago (I am betting
on this because I know that I had used up all the old fuel from the
fuel tank before I ran the motor).

Thanks for all the people who have tried to help me. I appreciate
that. I will let people know how this goes next spring when I will
bring the motor to the dealer.

Jay Chan

There is usually a brass or fiberglass insert in the impeller. If you try to
pull the impeller away from the insert, you might find that the bond between
the two no longer exists. Many folks have been fooled by this failure.
Jim
wrote in message
ups.com...
wrote:
I left the boat in the driveway for one year without starting the
motor. Today, I put the lower unit into a bucket of water, and start
the motor to winterize it. After trying to start it for a couple
times, I finally manage to start it. Unfortunately, I cannot see the
telltail water stream coming out from the motor cooling system. All I
see is some smoke coming from the hole where the water stream is
supposed to come out from. Despite the fact that the motor temperature
was not overheating (only run it for 30 seconds or so), I decided to
turn off the motor just to be in the safe side.

My question is:

Should I expect to see the telltail water stream coming out from the
motor as soon as I start the motor? Does the motor need to reach a
certain temperature before the water stream coming out? The boatowner
manual said this:

"2. If engine is cold, run engine for 1 or 2 minutes ...
3. After engine has warmed up, check water temperature
gauge to ensure that engine temperature is not
abnormally high... Check that water is running from
the tell-tail on the back of the engine..."

This seems to suggest that the telltail water stream may not come out
if the engine is not warm enough. Considering the fact that the
overheating warning horn doesn't sound, the cooling system may not
really have a problem.

However, the Mercury Operation & Maintenance Manual for my 1995 Mercury
115hp outboard said this differently:

"10 Turn ignition key to START ...re-prime until engine
is running smoothly.
11 Check for a steady stream of water flowing out
of the water pump indicator hole.
IMPORTANT: If no water is coming out of the water
pump indicator hole, stop engine..."

This surely seems like I should expect to see telltail water stream
coming out as soon as I start the engine.

Now, I am really confused with this conflicting info. Obviously, I
don't want to risk overheating the motor. Can someone help me with
this?

Thanks in advance for any info.

Jay Chan

I thought the impeller was damaged and could not push water through the
telltail. Last weekend, I opened up the impeller and found that it is
in very good shape. Now, I really don't know why I cannot see the
telltail water stream when I start the motor.

At this point, this problem is beyond my skill level. I will bring the
motor to the dealer next spring and let them to fix it. Meanwhile, I
can only finish half the winterizing process (fuel system is only
partially winterized). I will just have to try my luck and hope that
some of the treated fuel managed to get into the fuel system of the
motor when I ran the motor for 30 seconds two weeks ago (I am betting
on this because I know that I had used up all the old fuel from the
fuel tank before I ran the motor).

Thanks for all the people who have tried to help me. I appreciate
that. I will let people know how this goes next spring when I will
bring the motor to the dealer.

Jay Chan

wrote:
On 16 Oct 2006 08:16:33 -0700, "
wrote:

wrote:
I left the boat in the driveway for one year without starting the
motor. Today, I put the lower unit into a bucket of water, and start
the motor to winterize it. After trying to start it for a couple
times, I finally manage to start it. Unfortunately, I cannot see the
telltail water stream coming out from the motor cooling system. All I
see is some smoke coming from the hole where the water stream is
supposed to come out from. Despite the fact that the motor temperature
was not overheating (only run it for 30 seconds or so), I decided to
turn off the motor just to be in the safe side.

My question is:

Should I expect to see the telltail water stream coming out from the
motor as soon as I start the motor? Does the motor need to reach a
certain temperature before the water stream coming out? The boatowner
manual said this:

"2. If engine is cold, run engine for 1 or 2 minutes ...
3. After engine has warmed up, check water temperature
gauge to ensure that engine temperature is not
abnormally high... Check that water is running from
the tell-tail on the back of the engine..."

This seems to suggest that the telltail water stream may not come out
if the engine is not warm enough. Considering the fact that the
overheating warning horn doesn't sound, the cooling system may not
really have a problem.

However, the Mercury Operation & Maintenance Manual for my 1995 Mercury
115hp outboard said this differently:

"10 Turn ignition key to START ...re-prime until engine
is running smoothly.
11 Check for a steady stream of water flowing out
of the water pump indicator hole.
IMPORTANT: If no water is coming out of the water
pump indicator hole, stop engine..."

This surely seems like I should expect to see telltail water stream
coming out as soon as I start the engine.

Now, I am really confused with this conflicting info. Obviously, I
don't want to risk overheating the motor. Can someone help me with
this?

Thanks in advance for any info.

Jay Chan

I thought the impeller was damaged and could not push water through the
telltail. Last weekend, I opened up the impeller and found that it is
in very good shape. Now, I really don't know why I cannot see the
telltail water stream when I start the motor.

At this point, this problem is beyond my skill level. I will bring the
motor to the dealer next spring and let them to fix it. Meanwhile, I
can only finish half the winterizing process (fuel system is only
partially winterized). I will just have to try my luck and hope that
some of the treated fuel managed to get into the fuel system of the
motor when I ran the motor for 30 seconds two weeks ago (I am betting
on this because I know that I had used up all the old fuel from the
fuel tank before I ran the motor).

Thanks for all the people who have tried to help me. I appreciate
that. I will let people know how this goes next spring when I will
bring the motor to the dealer.

Jay Chan

Have you tried to blow water up the water tube that goes to the
impeller? DO NOT put too much pressure in there. Just wrap your hand
around the hose and tube so it won't blow too hard. You can also try
to blow water back towards the impeller from the telltale.The telltale
is nothing but a port off of the intake water manifold. You still may
haver a plugged up tube somewhere. Another thing you can try, while
you have the foot off, is to squirt water back through the thermostat
hole towards the foot. If something was plugged up, back washing it
may break it loose. While you have the foot off, be sure the water
flows freely from the impeller housing through the intake slots. Just
be careful not to put full house water pressure into the system. The
outboard typically uses less that 20psi.

Very good tips and should be fairly easy for me to try. I will try
these when I get back home today.

Jay Chan

The brass key pin is there, and I vaguely recall that I had turned the
driveshalf to verify that the brass key pin can turn the impeller. But
I don't trust my memory. I will try this one more time today when I
get back home.

Thanks for the tip.

Jay Chan


Jim wrote:
There is usually a brass or fiberglass insert in the impeller. If you try to
pull the impeller away from the insert, you might find that the bond between
the two no longer exists. Many folks have been fooled by this failure.
Jim

wrote in message
ups.com...
wrote:
I left the boat in the driveway for one year without starting the
motor. Today, I put the lower unit into a bucket of water, and start
the motor to winterize it. After trying to start it for a couple
times, I finally manage to start it. Unfortunately, I cannot see the
telltail water stream coming out from the motor cooling system. All I
see is some smoke coming from the hole where the water stream is
supposed to come out from. Despite the fact that the motor temperature
was not overheating (only run it for 30 seconds or so), I decided to
turn off the motor just to be in the safe side.

My question is:

Should I expect to see the telltail water stream coming out from the
motor as soon as I start the motor? Does the motor need to reach a
certain temperature before the water stream coming out? The boatowner
manual said this:

"2. If engine is cold, run engine for 1 or 2 minutes ...
3. After engine has warmed up, check water temperature
gauge to ensure that engine temperature is not
abnormally high... Check that water is running from
the tell-tail on the back of the engine..."

This seems to suggest that the telltail water stream may not come out
if the engine is not warm enough. Considering the fact that the
overheating warning horn doesn't sound, the cooling system may not
really have a problem.

However, the Mercury Operation & Maintenance Manual for my 1995 Mercury
115hp outboard said this differently:

"10 Turn ignition key to START ...re-prime until engine
is running smoothly.
11 Check for a steady stream of water flowing out
of the water pump indicator hole.
IMPORTANT: If no water is coming out of the water
pump indicator hole, stop engine..."

This surely seems like I should expect to see telltail water stream
coming out as soon as I start the engine.

Now, I am really confused with this conflicting info. Obviously, I
don't want to risk overheating the motor. Can someone help me with
this?

Thanks in advance for any info.

Jay Chan

I thought the impeller was damaged and could not push water through the
telltail. Last weekend, I opened up the impeller and found that it is
in very good shape. Now, I really don't know why I cannot see the
telltail water stream when I start the motor.

At this point, this problem is beyond my skill level. I will bring the
motor to the dealer next spring and let them to fix it. Meanwhile, I
can only finish half the winterizing process (fuel system is only
partially winterized). I will just have to try my luck and hope that
some of the treated fuel managed to get into the fuel system of the
motor when I ran the motor for 30 seconds two weeks ago (I am betting
on this because I know that I had used up all the old fuel from the
fuel tank before I ran the motor).

Thanks for all the people who have tried to help me. I appreciate
that. I will let people know how this goes next spring when I will
bring the motor to the dealer.

Jay Chan

I think you missed my point. with the impeller still on the shaft, pull hard
on one of the vanes. Any separation between the impeller and the collar it
is glued to is very bad.
Jim
wrote in message
oups.com...
The brass key pin is there, and I vaguely recall that I had turned the
driveshalf to verify that the brass key pin can turn the impeller. But
I don't trust my memory. I will try this one more time today when I
get back home.

Thanks for the tip.

Jay Chan


Jim wrote:
There is usually a brass or fiberglass insert in the impeller. If you try
to
pull the impeller away from the insert, you might find that the bond
between
the two no longer exists. Many folks have been fooled by this failure.
Jim

wrote in message
ups.com...
wrote:
I left the boat in the driveway for one year without starting the
motor. Today, I put the lower unit into a bucket of water, and start
the motor to winterize it. After trying to start it for a couple
times, I finally manage to start it. Unfortunately, I cannot see the
telltail water stream coming out from the motor cooling system. All I
see is some smoke coming from the hole where the water stream is
supposed to come out from. Despite the fact that the motor
temperature
was not overheating (only run it for 30 seconds or so), I decided to
turn off the motor just to be in the safe side.

My question is:

Should I expect to see the telltail water stream coming out from the
motor as soon as I start the motor? Does the motor need to reach a
certain temperature before the water stream coming out? The boatowner
manual said this:

"2. If engine is cold, run engine for 1 or 2 minutes ...
3. After engine has warmed up, check water temperature
gauge to ensure that engine temperature is not
abnormally high... Check that water is running from
the tell-tail on the back of the engine..."

This seems to suggest that the telltail water stream may not come out
if the engine is not warm enough. Considering the fact that the
overheating warning horn doesn't sound, the cooling system may not
really have a problem.

However, the Mercury Operation & Maintenance Manual for my 1995
Mercury
115hp outboard said this differently:

"10 Turn ignition key to START ...re-prime until engine
is running smoothly.
11 Check for a steady stream of water flowing out
of the water pump indicator hole.
IMPORTANT: If no water is coming out of the water
pump indicator hole, stop engine..."

This surely seems like I should expect to see telltail water stream
coming out as soon as I start the engine.

Now, I am really confused with this conflicting info. Obviously, I
don't want to risk overheating the motor. Can someone help me with
this?

Thanks in advance for any info.

Jay Chan

I thought the impeller was damaged and could not push water through the
telltail. Last weekend, I opened up the impeller and found that it is
in very good shape. Now, I really don't know why I cannot see the
telltail water stream when I start the motor.

At this point, this problem is beyond my skill level. I will bring the
motor to the dealer next spring and let them to fix it. Meanwhile, I
can only finish half the winterizing process (fuel system is only
partially winterized). I will just have to try my luck and hope that
some of the treated fuel managed to get into the fuel system of the
motor when I ran the motor for 30 seconds two weeks ago (I am betting
on this because I know that I had used up all the old fuel from the
fuel tank before I ran the motor).

Thanks for all the people who have tried to help me. I appreciate
that. I will let people know how this goes next spring when I will
bring the motor to the dealer.

Jay Chan

I re-read your original suggestion, and I realize that you were asking
me to check that the key-pin and the impeller are bonded together well.
When I lifted up the water pump housing to check the impeller, the
impeller stuck with the housing, and the key-pin fell off. I don't
know if this meaned the key-pin didn't bond well to the impeller or
not. Anyway, I will try what you have suggested when I get back home.

Thanks.

Jay Chan


Jim wrote:
I think you missed my point. with the impeller still on the shaft, pull hard
on one of the vanes. Any separation between the impeller and the collar it
is glued to is very bad.
Jim

wrote in message
oups.com...
The brass key pin is there, and I vaguely recall that I had turned the
driveshalf to verify that the brass key pin can turn the impeller. But
I don't trust my memory. I will try this one more time today when I
get back home.

Thanks for the tip.

Jay Chan


Jim wrote:
There is usually a brass or fiberglass insert in the impeller. If you try
to
pull the impeller away from the insert, you might find that the bond
between
the two no longer exists. Many folks have been fooled by this failure.
Jim

wrote in message
ups.com...
wrote:
I left the boat in the driveway for one year without starting the
motor. Today, I put the lower unit into a bucket of water, and start
the motor to winterize it. After trying to start it for a couple
times, I finally manage to start it. Unfortunately, I cannot see the
telltail water stream coming out from the motor cooling system. All I
see is some smoke coming from the hole where the water stream is
supposed to come out from. Despite the fact that the motor
temperature
was not overheating (only run it for 30 seconds or so), I decided to
turn off the motor just to be in the safe side.

My question is:

Should I expect to see the telltail water stream coming out from the
motor as soon as I start the motor? Does the motor need to reach a
certain temperature before the water stream coming out? The boatowner
manual said this:

"2. If engine is cold, run engine for 1 or 2 minutes ...
3. After engine has warmed up, check water temperature
gauge to ensure that engine temperature is not
abnormally high... Check that water is running from
the tell-tail on the back of the engine..."

This seems to suggest that the telltail water stream may not come out
if the engine is not warm enough. Considering the fact that the
overheating warning horn doesn't sound, the cooling system may not
really have a problem.

However, the Mercury Operation & Maintenance Manual for my 1995
Mercury
115hp outboard said this differently:

"10 Turn ignition key to START ...re-prime until engine
is running smoothly.
11 Check for a steady stream of water flowing out
of the water pump indicator hole.
IMPORTANT: If no water is coming out of the water
pump indicator hole, stop engine..."

This surely seems like I should expect to see telltail water stream
coming out as soon as I start the engine.

Now, I am really confused with this conflicting info. Obviously, I
don't want to risk overheating the motor. Can someone help me with
this?

Thanks in advance for any info.

Jay Chan

I thought the impeller was damaged and could not push water through the
telltail. Last weekend, I opened up the impeller and found that it is
in very good shape. Now, I really don't know why I cannot see the
telltail water stream when I start the motor.

At this point, this problem is beyond my skill level. I will bring the
motor to the dealer next spring and let them to fix it. Meanwhile, I
can only finish half the winterizing process (fuel system is only
partially winterized). I will just have to try my luck and hope that
some of the treated fuel managed to get into the fuel system of the
motor when I ran the motor for 30 seconds two weeks ago (I am betting
on this because I know that I had used up all the old fuel from the
fuel tank before I ran the motor).

Thanks for all the people who have tried to help me. I appreciate
that. I will let people know how this goes next spring when I will
bring the motor to the dealer.

Jay Chan

wrote:
On 17 Oct 2006 11:09:11 -0700, "
wrote:

I re-read your original suggestion, and I realize that you were asking
me to check that the key-pin and the impeller are bonded together well.
When I lifted up the water pump housing to check the impeller, the
impeller stuck with the housing, and the key-pin fell off. I don't
know if this meaned the key-pin didn't bond well to the impeller or
not. Anyway, I will try what you have suggested when I get back home.

The key is a loose part. He is talking about the hub in the impeller
itself. The bond between the solid part that engages the shaft and key
breaks away from the rubber part.

If I understand this correctly, there are three things involved he
1. The brass or metal pin that is placed in the flat part of
the drive shaft and that keys into an indentation of the
hole in the middle of the impeller.
2. The white area that forms the hole in the middle of the
impeller. This is the solid rigid part of the impeller.
3. The black rubber part of the impeller, and this forms
the vanes.

I believe what you and Jim are saying that the bond between the white
solid area and the black rubber area may come loose, and this is
something that I need to watch out for. And that has nothing to do
with the metal pin.

Thanks for the explanation.

I didn't check that today because it was raining when I get back home.
I will check that in this weekend when the weather forecast will be OK
and I will someone to help me to hold on with the lower unit.

Jay Chan