fuel stabilizer
 

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 21:24:26 -0400, "John Wentworth"
wrote:

Simple question for you Charlie: Do you believe that untreated gasoline in
a
marine fuel tank is corrupted after 30 days?



Yes, it is breaking down and starting to precipitate solids.

CWM

I agree Charlie. It is garbage. Please save all your 30 day old corrupted
gas for me. If you live too far away you should give it away to those who
can *tolerate* 30 day old gasoline. That way you won't have to worry about
contaminating that engine and gas tank of yours. ;-)

fuel stabilizer
 

Charlie Morgan wrote:
On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 15:56:35 -0400, " JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com
wrote:


"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 21:24:26 -0400, "John Wentworth"
wrote:

Simple question for you Charlie: Do you believe that untreated gasoline in
a
marine fuel tank is corrupted after 30 days?



Yes, it is breaking down and starting to precipitate solids.

CWM

I agree Charlie. It is garbage. Please save all your 30 day old corrupted
gas for me. If you live too far away you should give it away to those who
can *tolerate* 30 day old gasoline. That way you won't have to worry about
contaminating that engine and gas tank of yours. ;-)


Okay, I agree you are an idiot. So noted.

CWM


OK.

So where can I go to collect your stale 30 day old gas that you find
unacceptable?

fuel stabilizer
 

What you are not telling us is what kind of engine you have. If it is a 2-stroke,
this kind of engine is much less sensitive to particles blocking the carburetor,
mainly because the oil in the gas helps to prevent this. After going through two
2-stroke engines over a 20 year period, I never had anything like the problems I'm
having
with this Yamaha 9.9 Four Stroke. I have had to tear down the carbs twice myself,
and have a mechanic do it once, all this season. It is now blocked again, so I
will
have to clean it this week. People giving comments about old gas not being a
problem should qualify what kind of engine (2 or 4 stroke) they are currently
using.

Sherwin D.

Harry Krause wrote:

jamesgangnc wrote:
The liquid gasoline expansion rate is almost 5 times higher than water.
In subjective language that is my "good deal".

There is a school of thought that you should fuel up in the morning
because you will get more gas by volume than you will in the afternoon.
I'm sceptical about that one because the gas in the underground tank
probably has a much smaller temperature range than an exposed tank.

John Wentworth wrote:
"James" wrote in message news:turIg.2213
Gas expands and contracts a good deal with temperature change and it
increases the moisture in you tank when it "breathes".
How much do you think gasoline expands and contracts with temperature
change?
1% ? 10% ? .01% ? How much is a "good deal"? Please be clear on the
coefficient of thermal expansion for liquid gasoline versus gasoline vapors.


This must be a discussion for those suffering from OCD.

In the last 16 years, I haven't paid the slightest bit of attention to
this sort of nonsense during my outboard boats' operating seasons, and I
haven't have one single problem in any way attributable to water in the
fuel. None. Zip. With my current outboard boat, I doubt if I've filled
the tank (170 gallons) more than twice. I usually fill to no more than
half a tank.

fuel stabilizer
 

FWIW from my own personal experiences it is less about 2 stroke verses
4 stroke as it is about the design of the carburator(s). I find that
carbs that do not use a float bowl tolerate not running for extended
periods a lot better. Like my chain saw and weed wacker. Conversly I
find that carbs with a float bowl, particularly those that have the jet
orifices in or near the bottom of the float bowl, get gummed up when
the gas in the float bowl evaporates. Like my 4kw generator. I don't
find that stabilizer stops the evaporation of the gas in the float
bowl. I can't say one way or another if the stabilizer does anything
to reduce the deposits left when the gas does evaporate. It seems
unlikely. I can see how stabilizer could keep the extraneous solids in
suspension but not how it could make them evaporate with the gas. It
also seems worse on smaller engines presumably because they have
smaller jets in their carbs. What works best for me on those carbs is
to either run the gas out of the carb when I finish using it or drain
the float bowl.


sherwindu wrote:
What you are not telling us is what kind of engine you have. If it is a 2-stroke,
this kind of engine is much less sensitive to particles blocking the carburetor,
mainly because the oil in the gas helps to prevent this. After going through two
2-stroke engines over a 20 year period, I never had anything like the problems I'm
having
with this Yamaha 9.9 Four Stroke. I have had to tear down the carbs twice myself,
and have a mechanic do it once, all this season. It is now blocked again, so I
will
have to clean it this week. People giving comments about old gas not being a
problem should qualify what kind of engine (2 or 4 stroke) they are currently
using.

Sherwin D.

Harry Krause wrote:

jamesgangnc wrote:
The liquid gasoline expansion rate is almost 5 times higher than water.
In subjective language that is my "good deal".

There is a school of thought that you should fuel up in the morning
because you will get more gas by volume than you will in the afternoon.
I'm sceptical about that one because the gas in the underground tank
probably has a much smaller temperature range than an exposed tank.

John Wentworth wrote:
"James" wrote in message news:turIg.2213
Gas expands and contracts a good deal with temperature change and it
increases the moisture in you tank when it "breathes".
How much do you think gasoline expands and contracts with temperature
change?
1% ? 10% ? .01% ? How much is a "good deal"? Please be clear on the
coefficient of thermal expansion for liquid gasoline versus gasoline vapors.


This must be a discussion for those suffering from OCD.

In the last 16 years, I haven't paid the slightest bit of attention to
this sort of nonsense during my outboard boats' operating seasons, and I
haven't have one single problem in any way attributable to water in the
fuel. None. Zip. With my current outboard boat, I doubt if I've filled
the tank (170 gallons) more than twice. I usually fill to no more than
half a tank.

fuel stabilizer
 

"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
oups.com...

FWIW from my own personal experiences it is less about 2 stroke verses
4 stroke as it is about the design of the carburator(s). I find that
carbs that do not use a float bowl tolerate not running for extended
periods a lot better. Like my chain saw and weed wacker. Conversly I
find that carbs with a float bowl, particularly those that have the jet
orifices in or near the bottom of the float bowl, get gummed up when
the gas in the float bowl evaporates. Like my 4kw generator. I don't
find that stabilizer stops the evaporation of the gas in the float
bowl. I can't say one way or another if the stabilizer does anything
to reduce the deposits left when the gas does evaporate. It seems
unlikely. I can see how stabilizer could keep the extraneous solids in
suspension but not how it could make them evaporate with the gas. It
also seems worse on smaller engines presumably because they have
smaller jets in their carbs. What works best for me on those carbs is
to either run the gas out of the carb when I finish using it or drain
the float bowl.



This subject was debated at length recently in another newsgroup. I did a
little Internet research and found that virtually every small engine
manufacturer or manufacturer of a product that uses small gasoline engines
specifically recommended the use of a fuel stabilizer to be added to fresh
gasoline and run before long term storage and non-use (more than a month).
The manufacturers included Onan, Kohler, Briggs & Stratton, Honda, Kawasaki
and even Harley Davidson. Some specifically mentioned Stab-il ... some
simply mentioned "a fuel stabilizer" and, as usual, HD even sells their own
repackaged and overpriced brand.

Based on that, plus the fact that I've been using it for years and have
never had fuel problems after storage, I'll continue using it. It's cheap
insurance.

Eisboch

fuel stabilizer
 

Fuel stabilizer did not help my generator. After sitting it would miss
and surge until I disassembled the carb and cleaned the main jet with a
wire drill. It would run fine on the old gas with stabilizer after
cleaning the jet. Even if the gas was a year old. Once I started
running the gas out of the carb I stopped having problems. I have not
had to clean the carb or jets for several years now.

Eisboch wrote:
"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
oups.com...

FWIW from my own personal experiences it is less about 2 stroke verses
4 stroke as it is about the design of the carburator(s). I find that
carbs that do not use a float bowl tolerate not running for extended
periods a lot better. Like my chain saw and weed wacker. Conversly I
find that carbs with a float bowl, particularly those that have the jet
orifices in or near the bottom of the float bowl, get gummed up when
the gas in the float bowl evaporates. Like my 4kw generator. I don't
find that stabilizer stops the evaporation of the gas in the float
bowl. I can't say one way or another if the stabilizer does anything
to reduce the deposits left when the gas does evaporate. It seems
unlikely. I can see how stabilizer could keep the extraneous solids in
suspension but not how it could make them evaporate with the gas. It
also seems worse on smaller engines presumably because they have
smaller jets in their carbs. What works best for me on those carbs is
to either run the gas out of the carb when I finish using it or drain
the float bowl.



This subject was debated at length recently in another newsgroup. I did a
little Internet research and found that virtually every small engine
manufacturer or manufacturer of a product that uses small gasoline engines
specifically recommended the use of a fuel stabilizer to be added to fresh
gasoline and run before long term storage and non-use (more than a month).
The manufacturers included Onan, Kohler, Briggs & Stratton, Honda, Kawasaki
and even Harley Davidson. Some specifically mentioned Stab-il ... some
simply mentioned "a fuel stabilizer" and, as usual, HD even sells their own
repackaged and overpriced brand.

Based on that, plus the fact that I've been using it for years and have
never had fuel problems after storage, I'll continue using it. It's cheap
insurance.

Eisboch

fuel stabilizer
 

You may be right about the float bowls causing the jets to clog up. I'm also wondering
about gasohol as a contributing culprit. Maybe the Stabil type preservatives cannot
prevent this gas from deteriorating and leaving deposits on the
tiny jets in most small engine 4 strokes. I never had this kind of problem with the
two 2 strokes I owned, a British Seagull and a Chrysler. This is an issue the boating
and engine industry seems to be ducking. In the meantime, boat owners have to jump
through hoops to drain their carbs, switch gas often, add stablizers, etc., etc.

Sherwin D.

jamesgangnc wrote:

FWIW from my own personal experiences it is less about 2 stroke verses
4 stroke as it is about the design of the carburator(s). I find that
carbs that do not use a float bowl tolerate not running for extended
periods a lot better. Like my chain saw and weed wacker. Conversly I
find that carbs with a float bowl, particularly those that have the jet
orifices in or near the bottom of the float bowl, get gummed up when
the gas in the float bowl evaporates. Like my 4kw generator. I don't
find that stabilizer stops the evaporation of the gas in the float
bowl. I can't say one way or another if the stabilizer does anything
to reduce the deposits left when the gas does evaporate. It seems
unlikely. I can see how stabilizer could keep the extraneous solids in
suspension but not how it could make them evaporate with the gas. It
also seems worse on smaller engines presumably because they have
smaller jets in their carbs. What works best for me on those carbs is
to either run the gas out of the carb when I finish using it or drain
the float bowl.

sherwindu wrote:
What you are not telling us is what kind of engine you have. If it is a 2-stroke,
this kind of engine is much less sensitive to particles blocking the carburetor,
mainly because the oil in the gas helps to prevent this. After going through two
2-stroke engines over a 20 year period, I never had anything like the problems I'm
having
with this Yamaha 9.9 Four Stroke. I have had to tear down the carbs twice myself,
and have a mechanic do it once, all this season. It is now blocked again, so I
will
have to clean it this week. People giving comments about old gas not being a
problem should qualify what kind of engine (2 or 4 stroke) they are currently
using.

Sherwin D.

Harry Krause wrote:

jamesgangnc wrote:
The liquid gasoline expansion rate is almost 5 times higher than water.
In subjective language that is my "good deal".

There is a school of thought that you should fuel up in the morning
because you will get more gas by volume than you will in the afternoon.
I'm sceptical about that one because the gas in the underground tank
probably has a much smaller temperature range than an exposed tank.

John Wentworth wrote:
"James" wrote in message news:turIg.2213
Gas expands and contracts a good deal with temperature change and it
increases the moisture in you tank when it "breathes".
How much do you think gasoline expands and contracts with temperature
change?
1% ? 10% ? .01% ? How much is a "good deal"? Please be clear on the
coefficient of thermal expansion for liquid gasoline versus gasoline vapors.


This must be a discussion for those suffering from OCD.

In the last 16 years, I haven't paid the slightest bit of attention to
this sort of nonsense during my outboard boats' operating seasons, and I
haven't have one single problem in any way attributable to water in the
fuel. None. Zip. With my current outboard boat, I doubt if I've filled
the tank (170 gallons) more than twice. I usually fill to no more than
half a tank.

fuel stabilizer
 

This subject was debated at length recently in another newsgroup. I did a
little Internet research and found that virtually every small engine
manufacturer or manufacturer of a product that uses small gasoline engines
specifically recommended the use of a fuel stabilizer to be added to fresh
gasoline and run before long term storage and non-use (more than a month).

I get gummed up jets even using the Stabil and/or Sea Foam products. They
seem to work for a few weeks, and then I have to strip and clean the carbs
again. I suspect the problem is in the gasohol product, but I can't prove
it.


The manufacturers included Onan, Kohler, Briggs & Stratton, Honda, Kawasaki
and even Harley Davidson. Some specifically mentioned Stab-il ... some
simply mentioned "a fuel stabilizer" and, as usual, HD even sells their own
repackaged and overpriced brand.

Based on that, plus the fact that I've been using it for years and have
never had fuel problems after storage, I'll continue using it. It's cheap
insurance.

Works for you, not for me.



Eisboch

fuel stabilizer
 

Are people going to be satisfied running all the gas out of their outboards,
generators, lawn mowers, etc. every time they use them? It may be a solution,
but a lousy one.

Sherwin D.

jamesgangnc wrote:

Fuel stabilizer did not help my generator. After sitting it would miss
and surge until I disassembled the carb and cleaned the main jet with a
wire drill. It would run fine on the old gas with stabilizer after
cleaning the jet. Even if the gas was a year old. Once I started
running the gas out of the carb I stopped having problems. I have not
had to clean the carb or jets for several years now.

Eisboch wrote:
"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
oups.com...

FWIW from my own personal experiences it is less about 2 stroke verses
4 stroke as it is about the design of the carburator(s). I find that
carbs that do not use a float bowl tolerate not running for extended
periods a lot better. Like my chain saw and weed wacker. Conversly I
find that carbs with a float bowl, particularly those that have the jet
orifices in or near the bottom of the float bowl, get gummed up when
the gas in the float bowl evaporates. Like my 4kw generator. I don't
find that stabilizer stops the evaporation of the gas in the float
bowl. I can't say one way or another if the stabilizer does anything
to reduce the deposits left when the gas does evaporate. It seems
unlikely. I can see how stabilizer could keep the extraneous solids in
suspension but not how it could make them evaporate with the gas. It
also seems worse on smaller engines presumably because they have
smaller jets in their carbs. What works best for me on those carbs is
to either run the gas out of the carb when I finish using it or drain
the float bowl.



This subject was debated at length recently in another newsgroup. I did a
little Internet research and found that virtually every small engine
manufacturer or manufacturer of a product that uses small gasoline engines
specifically recommended the use of a fuel stabilizer to be added to fresh
gasoline and run before long term storage and non-use (more than a month).
The manufacturers included Onan, Kohler, Briggs & Stratton, Honda, Kawasaki
and even Harley Davidson. Some specifically mentioned Stab-il ... some
simply mentioned "a fuel stabilizer" and, as usual, HD even sells their own
repackaged and overpriced brand.

Based on that, plus the fact that I've been using it for years and have
never had fuel problems after storage, I'll continue using it. It's cheap
insurance.

Eisboch

fuel stabilizer
 

Agreed. It's easy on my generator, I just turn off the gas and leave
it running. Fortunately I use the mower enough that I've never had a
problem. And the rest of my small engines use that float bowl-less
style carb. They don't have a problem either.

sherwindu wrote:
Are people going to be satisfied running all the gas out of their outboards,
generators, lawn mowers, etc. every time they use them? It may be a solution,
but a lousy one.

Sherwin D.

jamesgangnc wrote:

Fuel stabilizer did not help my generator. After sitting it would miss
and surge until I disassembled the carb and cleaned the main jet with a
wire drill. It would run fine on the old gas with stabilizer after
cleaning the jet. Even if the gas was a year old. Once I started
running the gas out of the carb I stopped having problems. I have not
had to clean the carb or jets for several years now.

Eisboch wrote:
"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
oups.com...

FWIW from my own personal experiences it is less about 2 stroke verses
4 stroke as it is about the design of the carburator(s). I find that
carbs that do not use a float bowl tolerate not running for extended
periods a lot better. Like my chain saw and weed wacker. Conversly I
find that carbs with a float bowl, particularly those that have the jet
orifices in or near the bottom of the float bowl, get gummed up when
the gas in the float bowl evaporates. Like my 4kw generator. I don't
find that stabilizer stops the evaporation of the gas in the float
bowl. I can't say one way or another if the stabilizer does anything
to reduce the deposits left when the gas does evaporate. It seems
unlikely. I can see how stabilizer could keep the extraneous solids in
suspension but not how it could make them evaporate with the gas. It
also seems worse on smaller engines presumably because they have
smaller jets in their carbs. What works best for me on those carbs is
to either run the gas out of the carb when I finish using it or drain
the float bowl.



This subject was debated at length recently in another newsgroup. I did a
little Internet research and found that virtually every small engine
manufacturer or manufacturer of a product that uses small gasoline engines
specifically recommended the use of a fuel stabilizer to be added to fresh
gasoline and run before long term storage and non-use (more than a month).
The manufacturers included Onan, Kohler, Briggs & Stratton, Honda, Kawasaki
and even Harley Davidson. Some specifically mentioned Stab-il ... some
simply mentioned "a fuel stabilizer" and, as usual, HD even sells their own
repackaged and overpriced brand.

Based on that, plus the fact that I've been using it for years and have
never had fuel problems after storage, I'll continue using it. It's cheap
insurance.

Eisboch