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#1
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keels on old sailing ships
I don't know much about sailing, but I was just wondering what kind of
keels the old sailing ships had (like the Mayflower). Did they have a distinct keel, or was it just more like an extension of the hull? I looked at some model ship images, and it doesn't look like there's enough of a keel to prevent the ship from slipping sideways. http://www.handcraftedmodelships.com...model-ship.php |
#2
posted to alt.sailing
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keels on old sailing ships
Bucky,
There is may be a alot you do not understand about the entire situation here. The fuctional hydrodynamic keel of an old square sailed ship was not very large, it the external portion of the actual structural keel. There is a great deal more keel area there than you might expect, because it does extend the entire length of the vessel. They are often a lot of area if measured in a side view. It did not need to keep the ship from "slipping sideways" because the rig of these vessels barely allowed sailing into the wind at all - by modern standards. Matt Colie Naval Architect, Marine Engineer and Pathological Sailor Bucky wrote: I don't know much about sailing, but I was just wondering what kind of keels the old sailing ships had (like the Mayflower). Did they have a distinct keel, or was it just more like an extension of the hull? I looked at some model ship images, and it doesn't look like there's enough of a keel to prevent the ship from slipping sideways. http://www.handcraftedmodelships.com...model-ship.php |
#3
posted to alt.sailing
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keels on old sailing ships
Bucky wrote:
I don't know much about sailing, but I was just wondering what kind of keels the old sailing ships had (like the Mayflower). Did they have a distinct keel, or was it just more like an extension of the hull? I looked at some model ship images, and it doesn't look like there's enough of a keel to prevent the ship from slipping sideways. http://www.handcraftedmodelships.com...model-ship.php I liked the other responses. Difference in rigging meant looking for favorable winds because of the limits of the design. IMO: It wasn't until the advent of powered flight that the wing properties of sails was exploited and a lot of inovation took place. Not a great analogy but you may be familiar snowboards or skiis. The combination of side cut and flex gives directional control. As one side comes on edge the other with the opposite cut is off the snow. Now if you think in terms of the side cut being reversed so you lean to the outside of a turn you have a sailboat hull. If you look for some boat builders comments on "chine"line where flat or rounded section of hull gets vertical you may get a better idea. |
#4
posted to alt.sailing
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keels on old sailing ships
my 2 cents...
I have read and seen models and pictures of boats/ships with "lee boards"... and the area of the boards is less than the underwater sides of the typical hulls.... my first sail was with my grandfather, and old salt- in an aluminum boat (oar/sail/motor) abt 1956... and there was no keel or centerboard- but lee boards that mounted in the oarlocks... I remember being on a close haultack, one side running near the4 water, other side wtih bottom mostly exposed... the lee boards were quite effective. "Bucky" wrote in message oups.com... I don't know much about sailing, but I was just wondering what kind of keels the old sailing ships had (like the Mayflower). Did they have a distinct keel, or was it just more like an extension of the hull? I looked at some model ship images, and it doesn't look like there's enough of a keel to prevent the ship from slipping sideways. http://www.handcraftedmodelships.com...model-ship.php |
#5
posted to alt.sailing
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keels on old sailing ships
I've long forgotten when fore and aft sails really took over but something
that did stick in me wee foggy place is that "old time" sailing peaked with the clipper ships that were built for speed, up to 17 knots, making trade runs around the world. While the marine architects may not have completely understood the principle of "lift" they were certainly taking advantage of it. BTW, also as I remember; the clipper ship era ended with the discovery of steam power and it took nearly a century for sailing vessels to realize speed like that again. Square riggers were destined to "run" downwind and had to use the tradewinds in order to get anywhere. I'm sure Matt could fill us in and straighten out my babble. I, for one, would appreciate the history lesson. MMC "Rick Cortese" wrote in message k.net... Bucky wrote: I don't know much about sailing, but I was just wondering what kind of keels the old sailing ships had (like the Mayflower). Did they have a distinct keel, or was it just more like an extension of the hull? I looked at some model ship images, and it doesn't look like there's enough of a keel to prevent the ship from slipping sideways. http://www.handcraftedmodelships.com...model-ship.php I liked the other responses. Difference in rigging meant looking for favorable winds because of the limits of the design. IMO: It wasn't until the advent of powered flight that the wing properties of sails was exploited and a lot of inovation took place. Not a great analogy but you may be familiar snowboards or skiis. The combination of side cut and flex gives directional control. As one side comes on edge the other with the opposite cut is off the snow. Now if you think in terms of the side cut being reversed so you lean to the outside of a turn you have a sailboat hull. If you look for some boat builders comments on "chine"line where flat or rounded section of hull gets vertical you may get a better idea. |
#6
posted to alt.sailing
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keels on old sailing ships
Matt Colie wrote:
It did not need to keep the ship from "slipping sideways" because the rig of these vessels barely allowed sailing into the wind at all - by modern standards. Thanks for everyone's inputs. Basically, I was having a debate with a friend (both of us don't know much about sailing). He was saying that the old style sailing ships didn't have keels (in the modern sense, where they obviously stick out from the hull), and I was claiming that how can a sailboat work without a keel to keep the motion forward. |
#7
posted to alt.sailing
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keels on old sailing ships
One other of the reasons for that design was they needed to be careened, and
a fin keel would be a lliability. "Bucky" wrote in message oups.com... Matt Colie wrote: It did not need to keep the ship from "slipping sideways" because the rig of these vessels barely allowed sailing into the wind at all - by modern standards. Thanks for everyone's inputs. Basically, I was having a debate with a friend (both of us don't know much about sailing). He was saying that the old style sailing ships didn't have keels (in the modern sense, where they obviously stick out from the hull), and I was claiming that how can a sailboat work without a keel to keep the motion forward. |
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