"Calif Bill" wrote in message
link.net...

"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
NOYB wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
"NOYB" wrote in message
.net...

Could be. Of course, for 40 years down here in Naples, there hasn't
been a problem. Two bad years, and the insurance industry panics and
starts raping folks. Perhaps they should have been saving the money
they collected on those high premiums for a rainy day.

Florida is a big state. I remember reading that the area in which we
had property (Jupiter) had not had a direct hurricane hit in over 100
years at the time we bought.
Three years following our purchase, we got direct or near direct hits
three times.

Statistically, we have as high or higher probability of getting a
hurricane up here in MA this year as Jupiter does.


Right. But I bet that you don't have the same problem getting boat
insurance up there.




So...move...sell your boat...pay the premium.

Nope, nope, and already doing that.

As I said in my first post, this doesn't affect people like me who are
already insured. It affects new buyers...which will kill the boating
market. Reread the title. This isn't a personal bitch session. It
affects tens of thousands of people, and could end up affecting an entire
industry and the folks whose jobs rely upon that industry.




It may affect presently insured boaters also. Wait till renewal time.

The $3000 *is* my renewal cost. I was paying $2100...but that was before
the new motors added $30k to the insured value.



Look
at the increases in home and apartment insurance rates after Katrina.
Reading this morning that some $500k homes in New Orleans will go to $10k
a year in insurance. 400-500% increase in apartment building insurance
rates. Why should the people / government pay for peoples choice to build
in flood plains, etc. Lots of the river flood plains are now
non-insurable for federal flood insurance. Build on a beach and then cry
when the ocean takes your house, and figure that the rest of us will pay
to rebuild it. Bzzzt. wrong.

You and I already bail those folks out via the taxes we pay to the
"insurer-of-last-resort (a.k.a. the US Government). How many billion did
the Federal Gov't spend on Katrina?

Wouldn't it be simpler (yet, cost the individual taxpayer no more) if we all
paid into a national disaster relief insurance fund that reinsured the
insurance companies? It could be used to cover you guys in California when
the next brush fire or earthquake hits, the folks in the midwest when the
next flood or tornado comes along, people in Florida and the Gulf and
Atlantic states when a hurricane comes along, and the folks in the major
cities when the next terrorist attack occurs.

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
. ..

"NOYB" wrote in message
hlink.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
. ..

"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
. ..

"NOYB" wrote in message
.net...

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ups.com...

NOYB wrote:
It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now impossible
to
insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the
boat:

a) doesn't have a trailer

and/or

b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable
if they're
over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000)


I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive,
and 2 or
three others. All said the same thing: no dice.

Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage
(it's valued
at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year.

I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under
$3000/year. I was
looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't going
to
happen.


Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is in
Florida
now:

http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1


Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them.


Sorry to hear about your insurance difficulties. Nothing similar is
happening in this area of the country- so I'm willing to bet it has
a
lot to do with the $$$$$$$$$ in losses the boat insurance companies
suffer whenever your several hurricanes per year blow through.
Sort of like trying to buy fire insurance on a house 50-feet from a
blast furnace.

Those rates sound astronomical to insure a $100k boat, but it makes
some sense to evaluate local risk rather than just "average" it out
against everybody in the country- whether they live in a hurricane
zone
or not.

Yup. Sounds fair. Just like the rest of the country's tax dollars
shouldn't have to pay for security against terrorist attacks in
cities like NY, Seattle, LA, Chicago, etc.


There is no comparison between people choosing to live in hurricane
alley and folks living in large cities that terrorists chose to
target.


Sure there is. I have a much lower chance of being the victim of a
terrorist attack than someone living in NY...and NY'ers have a lower
chance of getting hit by a Cat 3 or higher hurricane. And guess what?
The risks are directly related to where we each chose to live.




And folks living in Hawaii have a lower chance of seeing snow in January
than those living in Alaska. And guess what, the risks are directly
related to where we choose to live.

So what does snow have to do with insurance? Nothing, just like
insurance has nothing to do with taxes.

BTW: How many terrorist attacks were there in New York last year? How
many hurricanes were there in Florida last year? How about 2004? 2003?
2002?

How many Cat 3 or greater Hurricanes hit Naples since 1960? One. How
many terrorist attacks occurred in NY in the same 46 year period?




I did not know that we have limited our discussion to Cat 3+ hurricanes
only.

Here is a very interesting link for you Doc:

http://www.collierem.org/never.htm
===================================
In 1960, when hurricane 'Donna' struck, there were approximately 15,500
people living full time in Collier County. Today there is nearly 300,000
residents, most of whom have never been through a severe land-falling
hurricane, even though they lived through the 2004 hurricane season. We
have come to southwest Florida from all over the country and around the
world, and we would all like to believe that we are safe from the ravages
of hurricanes.
After all, how often is Collier County struck by tropical weather? Records
kept by the National Weather Service date back to 1851, or 153 years as
this is written. In that time 73 tropical storms and hurricanes have
passed within 75 nautical miles of Naples, or one nearly every 2.1 years!
Of those, 40 have been tropical storms with winds of less than 74 miles
per hour. That also means at 33 have been hurricanes, or one about every
4.7 years!

Ah, but they're all small hurricanes aren't they? Let's take a look:

a.. Sixteen major hurricanes in 153 years averages out to 1 every 7.7
years!
b.. 14 have been category three, one has been category four and one was a
category five.
Now THAT Was a Close Call!
(Center Less Than 20 Miles From Naples)

Tropical Storms: 1861, 1878, 1891, 1899, 1907, 1932, 1936, 1945, 1953,
1969 (Jenny),
1985 (Bob), 1994 (Gordon), 1998 (Mitch), 1999 (Harvey)

Hurricanes: 1870,1894, 1910, 1926, 1929, 1941, 1947, 1960 (Donna)
('Andrew' passed 35 miles south of Naples in 1992)



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hang on To Your Hat!
Winds Greater Than 96 mph (Category 2+) within 75 nautical miles of Naples

1865 (100 mph), 1873 (115 mph), 1876 (104 mph), 1888 (113 mph), 1894 (104
mph), 1910 (126 mph), 1924 (104mph), 1926 (130 mph.), 1929 (115 mph), 1935
(146 mph.), 1941 (121mph), 1944 (127 mph), 1945 (127 mph), 1946 (113 mph),
1947 (147 mph), 1948 (115 mph), 1950 (115 mph), 1950 (107 mph) 1960
(Donna, 129 mph), 1964 (Isbell, 115 mph), 1965 (Betsy, 124 mph), 1966
(Alma, 120 mph), 1992 (144 mph, Andrew's winds were less than 95 mph at
Naples, but higher on Marco Island and in Everglades City), 2004 (Charley,
145mph), & 2004 (Jeanne, 120 mph)

================



And you were saying? ;-)

My boat made it through all of them unscathed...which is why I stated "Cat 3
or higher". It would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage my
boat...and that hasn't happened in 46 years.

On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 18:31:10 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:


"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
roups.com...
We had a similar situation here in Washington with health insurance. A
few years ago, the state legislature passed a law that said any company
writing health insurance in Washington could not refuse coverage to any
individual. The insurance companies could set the rates to reflect the
risk, of course, but they couldn't actually refuse anybody because they
presented too great a risk. Net result: A lot of insurance companies
just stopped writing health insurance in Washington, period.

Now imagine that the Federal gov't passed the same law about not refusing
coverage to an individual. The insurance companies couldn't just move to
another state to do business. They'd have to find a way to make it work.



After all,
what sort of premiums
can be charged to cover the cost of caring for some of the AIDS
patients who require many thousands of dollars in prescriptions each
month just to delay their certain death?


Every group health insurance policy is already required to accept an
individual despite pre-existing conditions. And it's a federal government
law that sees to that.






It's the same reason that you have trouble buying full coverage
mechanical insurance on a boat these days. Time was that if you blew up
your 5000 hour diesel engines the insurance company would scratch out a
check for $40,000 to offset your "loss". Not typical anymore. The
premiums charged cannot even begin to offset the almost certain "loss"
that every boat will eventually experience. The only reason you can buy
boat insurance from any carrier at any price in FLA is that some boats
will survive a hurricane, and most boats don't have to ride out a
hurricane in a specific location every year.


Good. So spread the risk over an even bigger population.


A while back one of our beloved group members had a day filled with
misfortune. Someone suggested that maybe the misfortune was just a little
'bad karma'. The person making the suggestion was jumped on by the same
folks who seem glee-filled at the thought that you may have some misfortune
with your home or boat.

Here's hoping everything works out for you, NOYB, even if you *do* post too
much political crap!

I wonder if you could find a farmer somewhere who may store that trailer
for you? Picking up an additional $50 a month, or so, may be something he'd
do for the little room it would take.
--
******************************************
***** Hope your day is great! *****
******************************************

John

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 18:43:52 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

It would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage my
boat...and that hasn't happened in 46 years.

Wanna bet?

Give it to me for a week - I won't do anything other than operate it
and guaranteed, something will be broken, go icky balooky, take on
water - something similar. :)

Then I'll be sure to file a claim in advance of any approaching storm named
Hurricane Tom.

"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
. ..

"NOYB" wrote in message
hlink.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
. ..

"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
. ..

"NOYB" wrote in message
.net...

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ups.com...

NOYB wrote:
It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now
impossible to
insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the
boat:

a) doesn't have a trailer

and/or

b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable
if they're
over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000)


I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice, Progressive,
and 2 or
three others. All said the same thing: no dice.

Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage
(it's valued
at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year.

I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under
$3000/year. I was
looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't
going to
happen.


Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is
in Florida
now:

http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1


Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure them.


Sorry to hear about your insurance difficulties. Nothing similar is
happening in this area of the country- so I'm willing to bet it has
a
lot to do with the $$$$$$$$$ in losses the boat insurance companies
suffer whenever your several hurricanes per year blow through.
Sort of like trying to buy fire insurance on a house 50-feet from a
blast furnace.

Those rates sound astronomical to insure a $100k boat, but it makes
some sense to evaluate local risk rather than just "average" it out
against everybody in the country- whether they live in a hurricane
zone
or not.

Yup. Sounds fair. Just like the rest of the country's tax dollars
shouldn't have to pay for security against terrorist attacks in
cities like NY, Seattle, LA, Chicago, etc.


There is no comparison between people choosing to live in hurricane
alley and folks living in large cities that terrorists chose to
target.


Sure there is. I have a much lower chance of being the victim of a
terrorist attack than someone living in NY...and NY'ers have a lower
chance of getting hit by a Cat 3 or higher hurricane. And guess what?
The risks are directly related to where we each chose to live.




And folks living in Hawaii have a lower chance of seeing snow in
January than those living in Alaska. And guess what, the risks are
directly related to where we choose to live.

So what does snow have to do with insurance? Nothing, just like
insurance has nothing to do with taxes.

BTW: How many terrorist attacks were there in New York last year? How
many hurricanes were there in Florida last year? How about 2004?
2003? 2002?

How many Cat 3 or greater Hurricanes hit Naples since 1960? One. How
many terrorist attacks occurred in NY in the same 46 year period?




I did not know that we have limited our discussion to Cat 3+ hurricanes
only.

Here is a very interesting link for you Doc:

http://www.collierem.org/never.htm
===================================
In 1960, when hurricane 'Donna' struck, there were approximately 15,500
people living full time in Collier County. Today there is nearly 300,000
residents, most of whom have never been through a severe land-falling
hurricane, even though they lived through the 2004 hurricane season. We
have come to southwest Florida from all over the country and around the
world, and we would all like to believe that we are safe from the ravages
of hurricanes.
After all, how often is Collier County struck by tropical weather?
Records kept by the National Weather Service date back to 1851, or 153
years as this is written. In that time 73 tropical storms and hurricanes
have passed within 75 nautical miles of Naples, or one nearly every 2.1
years! Of those, 40 have been tropical storms with winds of less than 74
miles per hour. That also means at 33 have been hurricanes, or one about
every 4.7 years!

Ah, but they're all small hurricanes aren't they? Let's take a look:

a.. Sixteen major hurricanes in 153 years averages out to 1 every 7.7
years!
b.. 14 have been category three, one has been category four and one was
a category five.
Now THAT Was a Close Call!
(Center Less Than 20 Miles From Naples)

Tropical Storms: 1861, 1878, 1891, 1899, 1907, 1932, 1936, 1945, 1953,
1969 (Jenny),
1985 (Bob), 1994 (Gordon), 1998 (Mitch), 1999 (Harvey)

Hurricanes: 1870,1894, 1910, 1926, 1929, 1941, 1947, 1960 (Donna)
('Andrew' passed 35 miles south of Naples in 1992)



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hang on To Your Hat!
Winds Greater Than 96 mph (Category 2+) within 75 nautical miles of
Naples

1865 (100 mph), 1873 (115 mph), 1876 (104 mph), 1888 (113 mph), 1894 (104
mph), 1910 (126 mph), 1924 (104mph), 1926 (130 mph.), 1929 (115 mph),
1935 (146 mph.), 1941 (121mph), 1944 (127 mph), 1945 (127 mph), 1946 (113
mph), 1947 (147 mph), 1948 (115 mph), 1950 (115 mph), 1950 (107 mph) 1960
(Donna, 129 mph), 1964 (Isbell, 115 mph), 1965 (Betsy, 124 mph), 1966
(Alma, 120 mph), 1992 (144 mph, Andrew's winds were less than 95 mph at
Naples, but higher on Marco Island and in Everglades City), 2004
(Charley, 145mph), & 2004 (Jeanne, 120 mph)

================



And you were saying? ;-)

My boat made it through all of them unscathed...which is why I stated "Cat
3 or higher". It would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage my
boat...and that hasn't happened in 46 years.




And my house has never caught on fire either.

Why were all the boats damaged in previous tropical storms and cat 1 and 2
hurricanes? Are you some sort of magician that you can make a statement
that it would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage your boat?

All it takes is a tree or large chunk of building falling on the boat, or
someone else's boat (if it is in the water) blowing into it.

Did you read the article I posted a link to?

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 18:31:10 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:


"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
groups.com...
We had a similar situation here in Washington with health insurance. A
few years ago, the state legislature passed a law that said any company
writing health insurance in Washington could not refuse coverage to any
individual. The insurance companies could set the rates to reflect the
risk, of course, but they couldn't actually refuse anybody because they
presented too great a risk. Net result: A lot of insurance companies
just stopped writing health insurance in Washington, period.

Now imagine that the Federal gov't passed the same law about not refusing
coverage to an individual. The insurance companies couldn't just move to
another state to do business. They'd have to find a way to make it work.



After all,
what sort of premiums
can be charged to cover the cost of caring for some of the AIDS
patients who require many thousands of dollars in prescriptions each
month just to delay their certain death?


Every group health insurance policy is already required to accept an
individual despite pre-existing conditions. And it's a federal government
law that sees to that.






It's the same reason that you have trouble buying full coverage
mechanical insurance on a boat these days. Time was that if you blew up
your 5000 hour diesel engines the insurance company would scratch out a
check for $40,000 to offset your "loss". Not typical anymore. The
premiums charged cannot even begin to offset the almost certain "loss"
that every boat will eventually experience. The only reason you can buy
boat insurance from any carrier at any price in FLA is that some boats
will survive a hurricane, and most boats don't have to ride out a
hurricane in a specific location every year.


Good. So spread the risk over an even bigger population.


A while back one of our beloved group members had a day filled with
misfortune. Someone suggested that maybe the misfortune was just a little
'bad karma'. The person making the suggestion was jumped on by the same
folks who seem glee-filled at the thought that you may have some
misfortune
with your home or boat.

Here's hoping everything works out for you, NOYB, even if you *do* post
too
much political crap!

I wonder if you could find a farmer somewhere who may store that trailer
for you? Picking up an additional $50 a month, or so, may be something
he'd
do for the little room it would take.

As I said before, this thread isn't about me or my predicament. I'm fully
insured, and not worried about any financial hardship any time soon.

Of course there are a bunch of folks here on rec.boats who would love to see
me fall flat on my back once or twice, but unfortunately for them that's not
going to happen.

I started this thread because I thought it would be a good
conversation-starter about how the insurance companies are likely to do more
harm to the boat business than gas prices. Yet, hardly a week goes by
before someone starts a bitching and whining session about how gas prices
are going to kill the boating market.

Of course, those on the left can't figure out how to blame Bush for the
problems with the insurance industry, so they keep whining about gas prices
(as if Bush is somehow responsible for world demand).

What I found most interesting of all is how the liberals who want to
socialize everything, and let the government take care of all of our
problems, were so lacking in sympathy to the plight of millions of
Floridians. It was rec.boat's most liberal forum members who adopted the
"I-got-mine-so-screw-you" mentality.

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
. ..

"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
. ..

"NOYB" wrote in message
hlink.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
. ..

"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
. ..

"NOYB" wrote in message
.net...

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ups.com...

NOYB wrote:
It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now
impossible to
insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the
boat:

a) doesn't have a trailer

and/or

b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are uninsurable
if they're
over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000)


I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice,
Progressive, and 2 or
three others. All said the same thing: no dice.

Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage
(it's valued
at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year.

I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under
$3000/year. I was
looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't
going to
happen.


Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is
in Florida
now:

http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1


Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure
them.


Sorry to hear about your insurance difficulties. Nothing similar
is
happening in this area of the country- so I'm willing to bet it
has a
lot to do with the $$$$$$$$$ in losses the boat insurance
companies
suffer whenever your several hurricanes per year blow through.
Sort of like trying to buy fire insurance on a house 50-feet from
a
blast furnace.

Those rates sound astronomical to insure a $100k boat, but it
makes
some sense to evaluate local risk rather than just "average" it
out
against everybody in the country- whether they live in a hurricane
zone
or not.

Yup. Sounds fair. Just like the rest of the country's tax
dollars shouldn't have to pay for security against terrorist
attacks in cities like NY, Seattle, LA, Chicago, etc.


There is no comparison between people choosing to live in hurricane
alley and folks living in large cities that terrorists chose to
target.


Sure there is. I have a much lower chance of being the victim of a
terrorist attack than someone living in NY...and NY'ers have a lower
chance of getting hit by a Cat 3 or higher hurricane. And guess
what? The risks are directly related to where we each chose to live.




And folks living in Hawaii have a lower chance of seeing snow in
January than those living in Alaska. And guess what, the risks are
directly related to where we choose to live.

So what does snow have to do with insurance? Nothing, just like
insurance has nothing to do with taxes.

BTW: How many terrorist attacks were there in New York last year?
How many hurricanes were there in Florida last year? How about 2004?
2003? 2002?

How many Cat 3 or greater Hurricanes hit Naples since 1960? One. How
many terrorist attacks occurred in NY in the same 46 year period?




I did not know that we have limited our discussion to Cat 3+ hurricanes
only.

Here is a very interesting link for you Doc:

http://www.collierem.org/never.htm
===================================
In 1960, when hurricane 'Donna' struck, there were approximately 15,500
people living full time in Collier County. Today there is nearly 300,000
residents, most of whom have never been through a severe land-falling
hurricane, even though they lived through the 2004 hurricane season. We
have come to southwest Florida from all over the country and around the
world, and we would all like to believe that we are safe from the
ravages of hurricanes.
After all, how often is Collier County struck by tropical weather?
Records kept by the National Weather Service date back to 1851, or 153
years as this is written. In that time 73 tropical storms and hurricanes
have passed within 75 nautical miles of Naples, or one nearly every 2.1
years! Of those, 40 have been tropical storms with winds of less than 74
miles per hour. That also means at 33 have been hurricanes, or one about
every 4.7 years!

Ah, but they're all small hurricanes aren't they? Let's take a look:

a.. Sixteen major hurricanes in 153 years averages out to 1 every 7.7
years!
b.. 14 have been category three, one has been category four and one was
a category five.
Now THAT Was a Close Call!
(Center Less Than 20 Miles From Naples)

Tropical Storms: 1861, 1878, 1891, 1899, 1907, 1932, 1936, 1945, 1953,
1969 (Jenny),
1985 (Bob), 1994 (Gordon), 1998 (Mitch), 1999 (Harvey)

Hurricanes: 1870,1894, 1910, 1926, 1929, 1941, 1947, 1960 (Donna)
('Andrew' passed 35 miles south of Naples in 1992)



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hang on To Your Hat!
Winds Greater Than 96 mph (Category 2+) within 75 nautical miles of
Naples

1865 (100 mph), 1873 (115 mph), 1876 (104 mph), 1888 (113 mph), 1894
(104 mph), 1910 (126 mph), 1924 (104mph), 1926 (130 mph.), 1929 (115
mph), 1935 (146 mph.), 1941 (121mph), 1944 (127 mph), 1945 (127 mph),
1946 (113 mph), 1947 (147 mph), 1948 (115 mph), 1950 (115 mph), 1950
(107 mph) 1960 (Donna, 129 mph), 1964 (Isbell, 115 mph), 1965 (Betsy,
124 mph), 1966 (Alma, 120 mph), 1992 (144 mph, Andrew's winds were less
than 95 mph at Naples, but higher on Marco Island and in Everglades
City), 2004 (Charley, 145mph), & 2004 (Jeanne, 120 mph)

================



And you were saying? ;-)

My boat made it through all of them unscathed...which is why I stated
"Cat 3 or higher". It would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage
my boat...and that hasn't happened in 46 years.




And my house has never caught on fire either.

Why were all the boats damaged in previous tropical storms and cat 1 and 2
hurricanes? Are you some sort of magician that you can make a statement
that it would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage your boat?

All it takes is a tree or large chunk of building falling on the boat, or
someone else's boat (if it is in the water) blowing into it.

Did you read the article I posted a link to?

I haven't had time yet.

I wasn't looking for sympathy with this thread. In fact, I was playing
Devil's advocate. I live in an area that deserves to have higher insurance
rates on boats. But the fact that all of the boat insurance companies
completely pulled out of the state needs to be addressed.

As long as each state sets their own insurance regulations, companies will
continue to cherry-pick the states that it's cheapest and easiest to do
business in. But considering all of the special treatment that insurance
companies get via Congress (ie--McCarron-Ferguson Act, special tax
consideration, etc), they ought to be regulated to some degree at the
Federal level. And they should be forced to offer coverage no matter which
state someone lives in (albeit at a higher rate if warranted).

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
NOYB wrote:


Of course, those on the left can't figure out how to blame Bush for the
problems with the insurance industry, so they keep whining about gas
prices (as if Bush is somehow responsible for world demand).

What I found most interesting of all is how the liberals who want to
socialize everything, and let the government take care of all of our
problems, were so lacking in sympathy to the plight of millions of
Floridians. It was rec.boat's most liberal forum members who adopted the
"I-got-mine-so-screw-you" mentality.



I save my sympathy for hard-working Americans who were wiped out by the
various storms, not for dentists who game the system.

Yes, of course. Class warfare.



As for Bush, well, just about everyone in his party running for
re-election this fall is running away from him.

Baloney.

"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
. ..

"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
. ..

"NOYB" wrote in message
hlink.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
. ..

"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
. ..

"NOYB" wrote in message
.net...

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ups.com...

NOYB wrote:
It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now
impossible to
insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the
boat:

a) doesn't have a trailer

and/or

b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are
uninsurable if they're
over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000)


I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice,
Progressive, and 2 or
three others. All said the same thing: no dice.

Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage
(it's valued
at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year.

I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under
$3000/year. I was
looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't
going to
happen.


Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it is
in Florida
now:

http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1


Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure
them.


Sorry to hear about your insurance difficulties. Nothing similar
is
happening in this area of the country- so I'm willing to bet it
has a
lot to do with the $$$$$$$$$ in losses the boat insurance
companies
suffer whenever your several hurricanes per year blow through.
Sort of like trying to buy fire insurance on a house 50-feet from
a
blast furnace.

Those rates sound astronomical to insure a $100k boat, but it
makes
some sense to evaluate local risk rather than just "average" it
out
against everybody in the country- whether they live in a
hurricane zone
or not.

Yup. Sounds fair. Just like the rest of the country's tax
dollars shouldn't have to pay for security against terrorist
attacks in cities like NY, Seattle, LA, Chicago, etc.


There is no comparison between people choosing to live in hurricane
alley and folks living in large cities that terrorists chose to
target.


Sure there is. I have a much lower chance of being the victim of a
terrorist attack than someone living in NY...and NY'ers have a lower
chance of getting hit by a Cat 3 or higher hurricane. And guess
what? The risks are directly related to where we each chose to live.




And folks living in Hawaii have a lower chance of seeing snow in
January than those living in Alaska. And guess what, the risks are
directly related to where we choose to live.

So what does snow have to do with insurance? Nothing, just like
insurance has nothing to do with taxes.

BTW: How many terrorist attacks were there in New York last year?
How many hurricanes were there in Florida last year? How about 2004?
2003? 2002?

How many Cat 3 or greater Hurricanes hit Naples since 1960? One. How
many terrorist attacks occurred in NY in the same 46 year period?




I did not know that we have limited our discussion to Cat 3+ hurricanes
only.

Here is a very interesting link for you Doc:

http://www.collierem.org/never.htm
===================================
In 1960, when hurricane 'Donna' struck, there were approximately 15,500
people living full time in Collier County. Today there is nearly
300,000 residents, most of whom have never been through a severe
land-falling hurricane, even though they lived through the 2004
hurricane season. We have come to southwest Florida from all over the
country and around the world, and we would all like to believe that we
are safe from the ravages of hurricanes.
After all, how often is Collier County struck by tropical weather?
Records kept by the National Weather Service date back to 1851, or 153
years as this is written. In that time 73 tropical storms and
hurricanes have passed within 75 nautical miles of Naples, or one
nearly every 2.1 years! Of those, 40 have been tropical storms with
winds of less than 74 miles per hour. That also means at 33 have been
hurricanes, or one about every 4.7 years!

Ah, but they're all small hurricanes aren't they? Let's take a look:

a.. Sixteen major hurricanes in 153 years averages out to 1 every 7.7
years!
b.. 14 have been category three, one has been category four and one
was a category five.
Now THAT Was a Close Call!
(Center Less Than 20 Miles From Naples)

Tropical Storms: 1861, 1878, 1891, 1899, 1907, 1932, 1936, 1945, 1953,
1969 (Jenny),
1985 (Bob), 1994 (Gordon), 1998 (Mitch), 1999 (Harvey)

Hurricanes: 1870,1894, 1910, 1926, 1929, 1941, 1947, 1960 (Donna)
('Andrew' passed 35 miles south of Naples in 1992)



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hang on To Your Hat!
Winds Greater Than 96 mph (Category 2+) within 75 nautical miles of
Naples

1865 (100 mph), 1873 (115 mph), 1876 (104 mph), 1888 (113 mph), 1894
(104 mph), 1910 (126 mph), 1924 (104mph), 1926 (130 mph.), 1929 (115
mph), 1935 (146 mph.), 1941 (121mph), 1944 (127 mph), 1945 (127 mph),
1946 (113 mph), 1947 (147 mph), 1948 (115 mph), 1950 (115 mph), 1950
(107 mph) 1960 (Donna, 129 mph), 1964 (Isbell, 115 mph), 1965 (Betsy,
124 mph), 1966 (Alma, 120 mph), 1992 (144 mph, Andrew's winds were less
than 95 mph at Naples, but higher on Marco Island and in Everglades
City), 2004 (Charley, 145mph), & 2004 (Jeanne, 120 mph)

================



And you were saying? ;-)

My boat made it through all of them unscathed...which is why I stated
"Cat 3 or higher". It would take a storm stronger than Charley to
damage my boat...and that hasn't happened in 46 years.




And my house has never caught on fire either.

Why were all the boats damaged in previous tropical storms and cat 1 and
2 hurricanes? Are you some sort of magician that you can make a
statement that it would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage your
boat?

All it takes is a tree or large chunk of building falling on the boat, or
someone else's boat (if it is in the water) blowing into it.

Did you read the article I posted a link to?

I haven't had time yet.

I wasn't looking for sympathy with this thread. In fact, I was playing
Devil's advocate. I live in an area that deserves to have higher
insurance rates on boats.


I don't think anyone thought that you were. On the other hand I hope that
you do not see those discussing this with you as wishing you harm or hoping
you lose your insurance, boat or house.

I am sure you understand that some folks, including me, are tired of picking
up the cost for folks living in storm prone areas with our tax dollars and
by paying higher insurance premiums. I thought it was stupid to rebuilt
New Orleans as you can bet that they will be flooded from a storm again
sometime in the future. The same goes for the folks losing their
waterfront homes on the Outer Banks only to see them destroyed every 10
years by hurricanes, then rebuilt using Federal low interest loans.

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. ;-)

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
. ..

"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
. ..

"NOYB" wrote in message
hlink.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
. ..

"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...

" JimH" not telling you @ pffftt.com wrote in message
. ..

"NOYB" wrote in message
.net...

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ups.com...

NOYB wrote:
It's insurance! Or lack thereof. In Florida, it is now
impossible to
insure a boat over 30' long valued at more than $100,000 if the
boat:

a) doesn't have a trailer

and/or

b) is more than 5 model years old (2001 and older are
uninsurable if they're
over 30 feet and valued at more than $100,000)


I just applied for quotes from NBOA, Boater's Choice,
Progressive, and 2 or
three others. All said the same thing: no dice.

Progressive was willing to write my boat for $100,000 coverage
(it's valued
at $113k though) to the tune of $4500/year.

I'm with Boat/US, and insured for $113,000 for just under
$3000/year. I was
looking to save some money, and it's apparent that that isn't
going to
happen.


Read this thread on thehulltruth.com to understand how bad it
is in Florida
now:

http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...114956&start=1


Guys cannot get financing on boats because they can't insure
them.


Sorry to hear about your insurance difficulties. Nothing similar
is
happening in this area of the country- so I'm willing to bet it
has a
lot to do with the $$$$$$$$$ in losses the boat insurance
companies
suffer whenever your several hurricanes per year blow through.
Sort of like trying to buy fire insurance on a house 50-feet
from a
blast furnace.

Those rates sound astronomical to insure a $100k boat, but it
makes
some sense to evaluate local risk rather than just "average" it
out
against everybody in the country- whether they live in a
hurricane zone
or not.

Yup. Sounds fair. Just like the rest of the country's tax
dollars shouldn't have to pay for security against terrorist
attacks in cities like NY, Seattle, LA, Chicago, etc.


There is no comparison between people choosing to live in
hurricane alley and folks living in large cities that terrorists
chose to target.


Sure there is. I have a much lower chance of being the victim of a
terrorist attack than someone living in NY...and NY'ers have a
lower chance of getting hit by a Cat 3 or higher hurricane. And
guess what? The risks are directly related to where we each chose
to live.




And folks living in Hawaii have a lower chance of seeing snow in
January than those living in Alaska. And guess what, the risks are
directly related to where we choose to live.

So what does snow have to do with insurance? Nothing, just like
insurance has nothing to do with taxes.

BTW: How many terrorist attacks were there in New York last year?
How many hurricanes were there in Florida last year? How about
2004? 2003? 2002?

How many Cat 3 or greater Hurricanes hit Naples since 1960? One.
How many terrorist attacks occurred in NY in the same 46 year period?




I did not know that we have limited our discussion to Cat 3+
hurricanes only.

Here is a very interesting link for you Doc:

http://www.collierem.org/never.htm
===================================
In 1960, when hurricane 'Donna' struck, there were approximately
15,500 people living full time in Collier County. Today there is
nearly 300,000 residents, most of whom have never been through a
severe land-falling hurricane, even though they lived through the 2004
hurricane season. We have come to southwest Florida from all over the
country and around the world, and we would all like to believe that we
are safe from the ravages of hurricanes.
After all, how often is Collier County struck by tropical weather?
Records kept by the National Weather Service date back to 1851, or 153
years as this is written. In that time 73 tropical storms and
hurricanes have passed within 75 nautical miles of Naples, or one
nearly every 2.1 years! Of those, 40 have been tropical storms with
winds of less than 74 miles per hour. That also means at 33 have been
hurricanes, or one about every 4.7 years!

Ah, but they're all small hurricanes aren't they? Let's take a look:

a.. Sixteen major hurricanes in 153 years averages out to 1 every 7.7
years!
b.. 14 have been category three, one has been category four and one
was a category five.
Now THAT Was a Close Call!
(Center Less Than 20 Miles From Naples)

Tropical Storms: 1861, 1878, 1891, 1899, 1907, 1932, 1936, 1945, 1953,
1969 (Jenny),
1985 (Bob), 1994 (Gordon), 1998 (Mitch), 1999 (Harvey)

Hurricanes: 1870,1894, 1910, 1926, 1929, 1941, 1947, 1960 (Donna)
('Andrew' passed 35 miles south of Naples in 1992)



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hang on To Your Hat!
Winds Greater Than 96 mph (Category 2+) within 75 nautical miles of
Naples

1865 (100 mph), 1873 (115 mph), 1876 (104 mph), 1888 (113 mph), 1894
(104 mph), 1910 (126 mph), 1924 (104mph), 1926 (130 mph.), 1929 (115
mph), 1935 (146 mph.), 1941 (121mph), 1944 (127 mph), 1945 (127 mph),
1946 (113 mph), 1947 (147 mph), 1948 (115 mph), 1950 (115 mph), 1950
(107 mph) 1960 (Donna, 129 mph), 1964 (Isbell, 115 mph), 1965 (Betsy,
124 mph), 1966 (Alma, 120 mph), 1992 (144 mph, Andrew's winds were
less than 95 mph at Naples, but higher on Marco Island and in
Everglades City), 2004 (Charley, 145mph), & 2004 (Jeanne, 120 mph)

================



And you were saying? ;-)

My boat made it through all of them unscathed...which is why I stated
"Cat 3 or higher". It would take a storm stronger than Charley to
damage my boat...and that hasn't happened in 46 years.




And my house has never caught on fire either.

Why were all the boats damaged in previous tropical storms and cat 1 and
2 hurricanes? Are you some sort of magician that you can make a
statement that it would take a storm stronger than Charley to damage
your boat?

All it takes is a tree or large chunk of building falling on the boat,
or someone else's boat (if it is in the water) blowing into it.

Did you read the article I posted a link to?

I haven't had time yet.

I wasn't looking for sympathy with this thread. In fact, I was playing
Devil's advocate. I live in an area that deserves to have higher
insurance rates on boats.


I don't think anyone thought that you were. On the other hand I hope that
you do not see those discussing this with you as wishing you harm or
hoping you lose your insurance, boat or house.

Maybe that's not how *you* feel, but you can bet that certain individuals
were in the discussion for that reason.




I am sure you understand that some folks, including me, are tired of
picking up the cost for folks living in storm prone areas with our tax
dollars and by paying higher insurance premiums. I thought it was stupid
to rebuilt New Orleans as you can bet that they will be flooded from a
storm again sometime in the future.

I feel the same way. But most of the guys arguing against me on this thread
saw no problem in paying for the rebuilding of New Orleans with my tax
dollars. But now that a "rich" dentist faces the prospect of not being able
to obtain homeowner's (or boat) insurance, their tune changes to "tough
luck. Move". It's class warfare at its finest.



The same goes for the folks losing their waterfront homes on the Outer
Banks only to see them destroyed every 10 years by hurricanes, then rebuilt
using Federal low interest loans.

I agree. But it's not just the waterfront dwellers down here who are being
affected. The folks living in much more modest accommodations inland are
also feeling the pinch.

Oh well, at least we'll get to tease you guys up North mercilessly in
another 3 1/2 months when you're buried under 2 feet of snow.