Multiple boat user agreement - any advice?
 

I will soon be moving my boat down to the Rappahannock River to make it
available to my kids for their use. Right now the drive for them is much
too long. As part of the deal, we three families will share expenses for
storage, maintenance, and insurance. I will retain title to the boat.

I'd like to draw up an agreement of some sort for such a use of the boat.
Any ideas on what considerations I should include therein?
--
******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

John

Multiple boat user agreement - any advice?
 

On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 11:24:28 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

JohnH wrote:
I will soon be moving my boat down to the Rappahannock River to make it
available to my kids for their use. Right now the drive for them is much
too long. As part of the deal, we three families will share expenses for
storage, maintenance, and insurance. I will retain title to the boat.

I'd like to draw up an agreement of some sort for such a use of the boat.
Any ideas on what considerations I should include therein?
--
******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

John


First, you need a slightly larger boat in better repair, with an
enclosed head.

Second, you are headed for disaster. Family members as boat partners is
a bad idea, especially for a guy like you who keeps his boat very clean.

Third, you need an agreement that stipulates sharing of expenses and
maybe even monthly payments into a special checking account for
maintenance, storage, and insurance.

Fourth, you need rules for keeping the boat clean and in good repair.

Man, that's a long drive from where you live. Two to three hours, no?

Thanks for the tips. No, I've been there before, it takes about an hour and
twenty minutes. Of course if 95 is a parking lot, it could take longer. I
don't see me going down there much on weekends, and on weekdays I'd just be
leaving at 5 AM instead of 6 AM.
--
******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

John

Multiple boat user agreement - any advice?
 

Harry Krause wrote:
JohnH wrote:
I will soon be moving my boat down to the Rappahannock River to make it
available to my kids for their use. Right now the drive for them is much
too long. As part of the deal, we three families will share expenses for
storage, maintenance, and insurance. I will retain title to the boat.
I'd like to draw up an agreement of some sort for such a use of the boat.
Any ideas on what considerations I should include therein?
--
******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

John


First, you need a slightly larger boat in better repair, with an
enclosed

This really could make for some very very unpleasant family reunions.


Second, you are headed for disaster. Family members as boat partners is
a bad idea, especially for a guy like you who keeps his boat very clean.

Third, you need an agreement that stipulates sharing of expenses and
maybe even monthly payments into a special checking account for
maintenance, storage, and insurance.

Fourth, you need rules for keeping the boat clean and in good repair.

Man, that's a long drive from where you live. Two to three hours, no?

Multiple boat user agreement - any advice?
 

JohnH wrote:
I will soon be moving my boat down to the Rappahannock River to make it
available to my kids for their use. Right now the drive for them is much
too long. As part of the deal, we three families will share expenses for
storage, maintenance, and insurance. I will retain title to the boat.

I'd like to draw up an agreement of some sort for such a use of the boat.
Any ideas on what considerations I should include therein?
--
******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

John


JohnH,
For what it is worth, I am in complete agreement with Harry, except I
carry it one step further. I make it a policy NEVER to enter into any
business arrangement with any family members.

What seems like such a smart idea can destroy a family, when suddenly
finances are involved. An example of how this can impact on a simple
boating arrangement. Suppose user X takes the boat out and as soon as
he starts the engine a $10,000 problem occurs, and the mechanic
determines it is the result of user neglect, who caused the problem, was
it user X or user Y, the person who had the boat before user X, and why
should user Z have to pay anything. Trust me, this is trouble with a
capital T.

Multiple boat user agreement - any advice?
 

"JohnH" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 11:24:28 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

JohnH wrote:

I will soon be moving my boat down to the Rappahannock River to make it
available to my kids for their use. Right now the drive for them is much
too long. As part of the deal, we three families will share expenses for
storage, maintenance, and insurance. I will retain title to the boat.

I'd like to draw up an agreement of some sort for such a use of the
boat.
Any ideas on what considerations I should include therein?

John



Second, you are headed for disaster. Family members as boat partners is
a bad idea, especially for a guy like you who keeps his boat very clean.



I agree with Harry .... family or not, multiple people owning the same boat
is not good for relationships. (Ask me how I know).

I subscribe to the idea that a gift should be given with no strings attached
and no expectations as to the gift's future. I remember many, many years
ago (early 70's) I acquired a small, beat up 12 foot aluminum boat.
My father-in-law, being the pac-rat that he is, rummaged around in his
garage and came up with a 1950's vintage 5 hp Johnson outboard that was
literally a basket case. It was completely disassembled and the parts were
contained in three wooden boxes. I played with it for a while, then stored
the boxes of parts away. At some point in our many moves and housecleaning
the boxes got thrown in the dump.

23 years later my father-in-law said, "If you aren't going to use that
outboard I gave you, I'll take it back and see if I can get it running".

Eisboch

Multiple boat user agreement - any advice?
 

JohnH wrote:
I will soon be moving my boat down to the Rappahannock River to make it
available to my kids for their use. Right now the drive for them is much
too long. As part of the deal, we three families will share expenses for
storage, maintenance, and insurance. I will retain title to the boat.

I'd like to draw up an agreement of some sort for such a use of the boat.
Any ideas on what considerations I should include therein?
--
******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

John


Can the kids afford to keep up the boat without your one-third
interest?

If so, just give them the boat as well as 100% of all the expenses.
Sell it for $1. You arrive at an understanding that dear old Dad will
be allowed to use the boat X days per week, month, quarter, or whatnot
on a prescheduled basis- and you can still go fishing while presenting
your kids with the gift of a boat. You also want the first right of
refusal to buy the boat back (for the same $1) if the kids decide to
sell it. That would be my approach, but I agree with others that it can
be risky sharing a boat with family members. You'd be better off having
a sharing agreement with strangers, administered by a neutral third
party, than getting into family wrangles about just who ran over a rock
and bent the prop or left the boat a total mess last week, etc.

Multiple boat user agreement - any advice?
 

On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 11:39:44 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 11:24:28 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

JohnH wrote:
I will soon be moving my boat down to the Rappahannock River to make it
available to my kids for their use. Right now the drive for them is much
too long. As part of the deal, we three families will share expenses for
storage, maintenance, and insurance. I will retain title to the boat.

I'd like to draw up an agreement of some sort for such a use of the boat.
Any ideas on what considerations I should include therein?
--
******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

John

First, you need a slightly larger boat in better repair, with an
enclosed head.

Second, you are headed for disaster. Family members as boat partners is
a bad idea, especially for a guy like you who keeps his boat very clean.

Third, you need an agreement that stipulates sharing of expenses and
maybe even monthly payments into a special checking account for
maintenance, storage, and insurance.

Fourth, you need rules for keeping the boat clean and in good repair.

Man, that's a long drive from where you live. Two to three hours, no?

Thanks for the tips. No, I've been there before, it takes about an hour and
twenty minutes. Of course if 95 is a parking lot, it could take longer. I
don't see me going down there much on weekends, and on weekdays I'd just be
leaving at 5 AM instead of 6 AM.
--
******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

John


I *hate* 95 between Springfield and Richmond. I zip down 301 from south
of Waldorf and if I'm heading down 95 beyond Richmond, get on 95 just
above Richmond. That Springfield-Richmond stretch of 95 is just plain
scary.

I agree, but it's not bad at 5AM. Coming home will be a big pita though.
Sometimes it's easier just to take US 1, and bypass 95. But then there's a
bunch of lights, and everyone else with the same idea.
--
******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

John

Multiple boat user agreement - any advice?
 

On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 12:05:41 -0400, "Reginal P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:
JohnH wrote:
I will soon be moving my boat down to the Rappahannock River to make it
available to my kids for their use. Right now the drive for them is much
too long. As part of the deal, we three families will share expenses for
storage, maintenance, and insurance. I will retain title to the boat.
I'd like to draw up an agreement of some sort for such a use of the boat.
Any ideas on what considerations I should include therein?
--
******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

John


First, you need a slightly larger boat in better repair, with an
enclosed

This really could make for some very very unpleasant family reunions.


Second, you are headed for disaster. Family members as boat partners is
a bad idea, especially for a guy like you who keeps his boat very clean.

Third, you need an agreement that stipulates sharing of expenses and
maybe even monthly payments into a special checking account for
maintenance, storage, and insurance.

Fourth, you need rules for keeping the boat clean and in good repair.

Man, that's a long drive from where you live. Two to three hours, no?

Luckily, the boat's not big enough for any family reunions. Only one family
can fit on it at a time.

If it doesn't work out, nothing will have been lost. If it does, there's a
lot to gain.
--
******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

John

Multiple boat user agreement - any advice?
 

On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 12:25:23 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .

On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 11:24:28 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

JohnH wrote:

I will soon be moving my boat down to the Rappahannock River to make it
available to my kids for their use. Right now the drive for them is much
too long. As part of the deal, we three families will share expenses for
storage, maintenance, and insurance. I will retain title to the boat.

I'd like to draw up an agreement of some sort for such a use of the
boat.
Any ideas on what considerations I should include therein?

John



Second, you are headed for disaster. Family members as boat partners is
a bad idea, especially for a guy like you who keeps his boat very clean.



I agree with Harry .... family or not, multiple people owning the same boat
is not good for relationships. (Ask me how I know).

I subscribe to the idea that a gift should be given with no strings attached
and no expectations as to the gift's future. I remember many, many years
ago (early 70's) I acquired a small, beat up 12 foot aluminum boat.
My father-in-law, being the pac-rat that he is, rummaged around in his
garage and came up with a 1950's vintage 5 hp Johnson outboard that was
literally a basket case. It was completely disassembled and the parts were
contained in three wooden boxes. I played with it for a while, then stored
the boxes of parts away. At some point in our many moves and housecleaning
the boxes got thrown in the dump.

23 years later my father-in-law said, "If you aren't going to use that
outboard I gave you, I'll take it back and see if I can get it running".

Eisboch



It's not a gift. I'll retain title. They can share the major expenses for
the use of the boat. Hell, they've offered to pay *all* the expenses if I
let them use the boat.
--
******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

John

Multiple boat user agreement - any advice?
 

On 15 Aug 2006 09:48:15 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:


JohnH wrote:
I will soon be moving my boat down to the Rappahannock River to make it
available to my kids for their use. Right now the drive for them is much
too long. As part of the deal, we three families will share expenses for
storage, maintenance, and insurance. I will retain title to the boat.

I'd like to draw up an agreement of some sort for such a use of the boat.
Any ideas on what considerations I should include therein?
--
******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

John


Can the kids afford to keep up the boat without your one-third
interest?

If so, just give them the boat as well as 100% of all the expenses.
Sell it for $1. You arrive at an understanding that dear old Dad will
be allowed to use the boat X days per week, month, quarter, or whatnot
on a prescheduled basis- and you can still go fishing while presenting
your kids with the gift of a boat. You also want the first right of
refusal to buy the boat back (for the same $1) if the kids decide to
sell it. That would be my approach, but I agree with others that it can
be risky sharing a boat with family members. You'd be better off having
a sharing agreement with strangers, administered by a neutral third
party, than getting into family wrangles about just who ran over a rock
and bent the prop or left the boat a total mess last week, etc.

That may be an idea. I'd thought of keeping title just to forestall any
serious issues. I could always just sell the damn boat and refund any money
they'd paid toward expenses. On the other hand, selling them the boat for a
buck may provide what I'm looking for without having to be in the middle.
It's a hard decision. That's why I asked for ideas. I appreciate them all.
--
******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

John