JohnH wrote:
On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 12:05:41 -0400, "Reginal P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:
JohnH wrote:
I will soon be moving my boat down to the Rappahannock River to make it
available to my kids for their use. Right now the drive for them is much
too long. As part of the deal, we three families will share expenses for
storage, maintenance, and insurance. I will retain title to the boat.
I'd like to draw up an agreement of some sort for such a use of the boat.
Any ideas on what considerations I should include therein?
--
******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

John

First, you need a slightly larger boat in better repair, with an
enclosed
This really could make for some very very unpleasant family reunions.


Second, you are headed for disaster. Family members as boat partners is
a bad idea, especially for a guy like you who keeps his boat very clean.

Third, you need an agreement that stipulates sharing of expenses and
maybe even monthly payments into a special checking account for
maintenance, storage, and insurance.

Fourth, you need rules for keeping the boat clean and in good repair.

Man, that's a long drive from where you live. Two to three hours, no?

Luckily, the boat's not big enough for any family reunions. Only one family
can fit on it at a time.

If it doesn't work out, nothing will have been lost. If it does, there's a
lot to gain.
--
******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

John
JohnH,
My fast type off a one liner, confused you. A bad financial arrangement
among family members can make the Thanksgiving Dinner very unplasant.
Sharing an expensive boat, even one given to them, can become unpleasant
if one is tidy, and one guy is a mess. If one guy is the one who always
handling the boat when an expensive breakdown occurs etc.

Sure, if it works out there is a lot to gain, but DAMN if it doesn't
work out, there is a lot more to lose.

On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 13:56:55 -0400, "Reginal P. Smithers III"
wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 12:05:41 -0400, "Reginal P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:
JohnH wrote:
I will soon be moving my boat down to the Rappahannock River to make it
available to my kids for their use. Right now the drive for them is much
too long. As part of the deal, we three families will share expenses for
storage, maintenance, and insurance. I will retain title to the boat.
I'd like to draw up an agreement of some sort for such a use of the boat.
Any ideas on what considerations I should include therein?
--
******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

John

First, you need a slightly larger boat in better repair, with an
enclosed
This really could make for some very very unpleasant family reunions.


Second, you are headed for disaster. Family members as boat partners is
a bad idea, especially for a guy like you who keeps his boat very clean.

Third, you need an agreement that stipulates sharing of expenses and
maybe even monthly payments into a special checking account for
maintenance, storage, and insurance.

Fourth, you need rules for keeping the boat clean and in good repair.

Man, that's a long drive from where you live. Two to three hours, no?

Luckily, the boat's not big enough for any family reunions. Only one family
can fit on it at a time.

If it doesn't work out, nothing will have been lost. If it does, there's a
lot to gain.
--
******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

John
JohnH,
My fast type off a one liner, confused you. A bad financial arrangement
among family members can make the Thanksgiving Dinner very unplasant.
Sharing an expensive boat, even one given to them, can become unpleasant
if one is tidy, and one guy is a mess. If one guy is the one who always
handling the boat when an expensive breakdown occurs etc.

Sure, if it works out there is a lot to gain, but DAMN if it doesn't
work out, there is a lot more to lose.

Now Chuck's idea of just giving them the boat sounds better and better.
Then they can fight it out. I'll present them with a bunch of these
thoughts and get their opinions.
--
******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

John

On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 13:47:48 -0400, JohnH wrote:


That may be an idea. I'd thought of keeping title just to forestall any
serious issues. I could always just sell the damn boat and refund any
money they'd paid toward expenses. On the other hand, selling them the
boat for a buck may provide what I'm looking for without having to be in
the middle. It's a hard decision. That's why I asked for ideas. I
appreciate them all. --

John, I don't know your family, but if you are thinking there may be
problems, I like your idea of keeping the title. If things get out of
hand, you can end it by selling the boat. On the other hand, if you sell
it to them for a dollar, if things get out of hand . . . and as you are
still part of the family, you are in the middle.

"Reginal P. Smithers III" wrote in message
. ..
JohnH wrote:
I will soon be moving my boat down to the Rappahannock River to make it
available to my kids for their use. Right now the drive for them is much
too long. As part of the deal, we three families will share expenses for
storage, maintenance, and insurance. I will retain title to the boat. I'd
like to draw up an agreement of some sort for such a use of the boat.
Any ideas on what considerations I should include therein?
--
******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

John


JohnH,
For what it is worth, I am in complete agreement with Harry, except I
carry it one step further. I make it a policy NEVER to enter into any
business arrangement with any family members.

What seems like such a smart idea can destroy a family, when suddenly
finances are involved. An example of how this can impact on a simple
boating arrangement. Suppose user X takes the boat out and as soon as he
starts the engine a $10,000 problem occurs, and the mechanic determines it
is the result of user neglect, who caused the problem, was it user X or
user Y, the person who had the boat before user X, and why should user Z
have to pay anything. Trust me, this is trouble with a capital T.

Yep. I *loaned* my sister and BIL $40,000 a few years back with 4% interest
and the stipulation it be paid back in 2 years.

I had a bit of a problem getting the money back and will never do it again
for family or friends. ;-)

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
JohnH wrote:
I will soon be moving my boat down to the Rappahannock River to make it
available to my kids for their use. Right now the drive for them is much
too long. As part of the deal, we three families will share expenses for
storage, maintenance, and insurance. I will retain title to the boat. I'd
like to draw up an agreement of some sort for such a use of the boat.
Any ideas on what considerations I should include therein?
--

In addition to all the financial-based caveats that have already been
offered, I would advise you to ask yourself about your family member's
existing skill set in regards to operating and maintaining a boat. Has any
of them ever taken a boating safety course? A financial loss is one thing,
but imagine how you'd feel if a family member was seriously injured in a
boating accident due to a novice operator.

On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 19:22:56 GMT, "RG" wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
JohnH wrote:
I will soon be moving my boat down to the Rappahannock River to make it
available to my kids for their use. Right now the drive for them is much
too long. As part of the deal, we three families will share expenses for
storage, maintenance, and insurance. I will retain title to the boat. I'd
like to draw up an agreement of some sort for such a use of the boat.
Any ideas on what considerations I should include therein?
--

In addition to all the financial-based caveats that have already been
offered, I would advise you to ask yourself about your family member's
existing skill set in regards to operating and maintaining a boat. Has any
of them ever taken a boating safety course? A financial loss is one thing,
but imagine how you'd feel if a family member was seriously injured in a
boating accident due to a novice operator.


Yes, that I've thought of. The one son had a boat, 24' Chaparral, and took
the course. The other will have to take the course over the internet. I'll
take him out his first time and do lot's of practice.

Thanks for the advice though!
--
******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

John

On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 12:18:41 -0400, "Reginal P. Smithers III"
wrote:

JohnH wrote:
I will soon be moving my boat down to the Rappahannock River to make it
available to my kids for their use. Right now the drive for them is much
too long. As part of the deal, we three families will share expenses for
storage, maintenance, and insurance. I will retain title to the boat.

I'd like to draw up an agreement of some sort for such a use of the boat.
Any ideas on what considerations I should include therein?
--
******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

John


JohnH,
For what it is worth, I am in complete agreement with Harry, except I
carry it one step further. I make it a policy NEVER to enter into any
business arrangement with any family members.

What seems like such a smart idea can destroy a family, when suddenly
finances are involved. An example of how this can impact on a simple
boating arrangement. Suppose user X takes the boat out and as soon as
he starts the engine a $10,000 problem occurs, and the mechanic
determines it is the result of user neglect, who caused the problem, was
it user X or user Y, the person who had the boat before user X, and why
should user Z have to pay anything. Trust me, this is trouble with a
capital T.

Well, that's another reason to keep it titled and insured in my name. To do
$10,000 damage to this boat, they'd just about have to sink it. Then the
problems would be resolved!
--
******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

John

I have been in a share situation for over 4 years now which has worked
exceptionally well. 3 partners who did not know each other prior to
this arrangement. We operate a separate check account from which all
expenses are paid and drew up a very brief agreement which evolved over
the 1st 12 months of the arrangement. Sharing with family will have
different dynamics but no reason why it should not work. The major
criteria is the co-operation between the parties & addressing issues as
they arise rather than letting them brew. Set out a brief checklist to
be completed on entry & more importantly on exit (so the boat is ready
for the next user), a timetable or booking system, a 3 or 6 monthly
maintenance program and you will all enjoy the benefits of "ownership"

On 15 Aug 2006 16:53:57 -0700, "C33" wrote:

I have been in a share situation for over 4 years now which has worked
exceptionally well. 3 partners who did not know each other prior to
this arrangement. We operate a separate check account from which all
expenses are paid and drew up a very brief agreement which evolved over
the 1st 12 months of the arrangement. Sharing with family will have
different dynamics but no reason why it should not work. The major
criteria is the co-operation between the parties & addressing issues as
they arise rather than letting them brew. Set out a brief checklist to
be completed on entry & more importantly on exit (so the boat is ready
for the next user), a timetable or booking system, a 3 or 6 monthly
maintenance program and you will all enjoy the benefits of "ownership"

Is it possible you could email me a copy of the agreement? Would be
appreciated.
--
******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

John