jamesgangnc wrote:
This is an interesting topic. I've always thought the add to the gas
cleaners were sort of snake oil. After all gas it's self is a pretty
good dissolver, what could be in these cleaners that would do it better
but still not be so corrosive that it ate up all the gaskets. Anyone
really take a carb apart, look at, put it back together, run a can of
cleaner through, and then take it back apart and see what got cleaned?
That would really tell the tale.

I've always been in a quandry about carbs with float bowls too. I add
stabilizer to my boat gas and fill the tank as winterizing but it
mostly evaporates from the float bowls over the winter anyway.
Merc/chevy small block with a holley on it. I figure the stabilizer is
good for the gas in the tank but the carb problems are typically
because the gas evaporates and leaves crud on the inside of the jets.

On my generator, which we only use once in a rare while, I shut the
fuel valve at the tank and let the engine burn as much as it can from
the float bowl. I do periodically run the thing but I always shut it
down by turning off the fuel.

I've thought about adding a valve to the boat gas line right at the
carb so I could do the same thing to it.

Do you carbs have a drain on the bottom of the bowl? Some do, some
don't. As far as the snake oil, I think maybe in the proportions that
would make it economical, that they don't work that well. A outboard
carb rebuild is pretty simple, and the kit is cheap. On our annual
fishing trip, one of the regulars invited a new guy. He brought his
boat, which had sat for months, and put it in the water, only to find
out it would barely run. I take him up to the marina in my boat, and he
buys two cans of some Merc product that has a fitting to hook directly
to the carb. Well, while we are all sitting on the dock watching, he
puts a can of the tune up stuff on, and putts around the cove, smoking
and stinking, won't get above 1000 rpm or so. Second can, same thing. I
go down there, and I do hear a difference... Asks me to run him back to
the marina, gets two more cans. Now, I never, ever thought after two
cans that more would make a difference, but he plugs in the third can,
and after about using it up, the thing starts running better and
better, then takes off!!! So, it did work, but I'd just as soon rebuild
the carbs for about the same price, and take less time, and know that
they are right. I rebuild mine on my 135 Evinrude every couple of
years, but they are problematic with small openings to get clogged
anyway.

Interesting test idea. I'm at a loss to see how stabil could keep the
gas from evaporating. Maybe it hangs around with the gunk and makes it
easier for the new gas to disolve it?

Eisboch wrote:
"Jim" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
oups.com...

This is an interesting topic. I've always thought the add to the gas
cleaners were sort of snake oil. After all gas it's self is a pretty
good dissolver, what could be in these cleaners that would do it better
but still not be so corrosive that it ate up all the gaskets. Anyone
really take a carb apart, look at, put it back together, run a can of
cleaner through, and then take it back apart and see what got cleaned?
That would really tell the tale.



Try this sometime. Put a small amount of gasoline purchased from your
local gas station in a glass or open mason (ball) jar. Put it in a safe
but protected space outside and let the gas evaporate. It will probably
take a couple of days for a quarter of a cup or so of gas.

After it has evaporated and no liquid is left, observe the glass or jar
bottom and sides. That hardened goo is what screws up the carb if gas is
allowed to sit in it and evaporate. Stabil is claimed to prevent this.
I add Stabil to the gas tanks of my "classic" cars everytime I put gas in
them because they are not used or run often and the gas you get today
goes stale very quickly.

Fuel injection does not suffer from this because the lines stay under
pressure and the gas does not evaporate.

Eisboch

Could you try the same experiment with stabil in the gas?
I'd do it myself, but you know how busy I am.
Jim


Still raising baby pineapples, huh?

Good idea though ... I'll try it sometime.

Eisboch

Eisboch wrote:
"Jim" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
oups.com...

This is an interesting topic. I've always thought the add to the gas
cleaners were sort of snake oil. After all gas it's self is a pretty
good dissolver, what could be in these cleaners that would do it better
but still not be so corrosive that it ate up all the gaskets. Anyone
really take a carb apart, look at, put it back together, run a can of
cleaner through, and then take it back apart and see what got cleaned?
That would really tell the tale.



Try this sometime. Put a small amount of gasoline purchased from your
local gas station in a glass or open mason (ball) jar. Put it in a safe
but protected space outside and let the gas evaporate. It will probably
take a couple of days for a quarter of a cup or so of gas.

After it has evaporated and no liquid is left, observe the glass or jar
bottom and sides. That hardened goo is what screws up the carb if gas is
allowed to sit in it and evaporate. Stabil is claimed to prevent this.
I add Stabil to the gas tanks of my "classic" cars everytime I put gas in
them because they are not used or run often and the gas you get today
goes stale very quickly.

Fuel injection does not suffer from this because the lines stay under
pressure and the gas does not evaporate.

Eisboch

Could you try the same experiment with stabil in the gas?
I'd do it myself, but you know how busy I am.
Jim


Still raising baby pineapples, huh?

Good idea though ... I'll try it sometime.

Same with the gas for my lawn tractor, weed eater, blower, etc. I
always put stabil in them. Friend had a pressure washer with a Honda
motor on it, 6hp. He'd take it to the shop every few months because,
according to him, he'd get it back, it'd run great, then slowly get so
it wouldn't start at all. I took it, cleaned the carb, told him to use
stabil every time he bought gas in his can, and it hasn't happened
since.

wrote:
I know several mechanics, that swear by "Sea Foam" . Some say it's the
best they've ever used.
YMMV

It may be good for carbs, but their website sure makes a lot of claims,
one being that it'll clean carbon deposits. There has been alot of
tests done on care engines with stuff claiming to clean carbon from
tops of pistons, only to find that the only true way to do so is
manually.

Jeff Burke wrote:
On 11 Aug 2006 12:46:06 -0700, "basskisser" wrote:
wrote:
I know several mechanics, that swear by "Sea Foam" . Some say it's the
best they've ever used.
YMMV

It may be good for carbs, but their website sure makes a lot of claims,
one being that it'll clean carbon deposits. There has been alot of
tests done on care engines with stuff claiming to clean carbon from
tops of pistons, only to find that the only true way to do so is
manually.

An engineer in a motorcycle group did a test, scoped his motor with a fiber
optics scope thru the spark plug hole. Ran Seafoam for the next 3 tank fulls
and scoped it again. He had a bad carbon problem in the first look and it was
all but gone in the second, with no other changes. He was a skeptic at the
beginning and did the visual check to prove the others in the group that their
claims were BS, he admitted that Seafoam did exactly as it claimed.

Again, there's been many many documented tests where they've used
various products much like, if not Seafoam, to clean carbon deposits.
Now I'm not saying that if the top of a piston has very minor carbon,
that seafoam won't make it look clean, but if you've got carbon enough
so that your compression has gone up, and results in pinging without
higher octane fuel, then it ain't going to do much for you.

jamesgangnc wrote:

This is an interesting topic. I've always thought the add to the gas
cleaners were sort of snake oil. After all gas it's self is a pretty
good dissolver, what could be in these cleaners that would do it better
but still not be so corrosive that it ate up all the gaskets. Anyone
really take a carb apart, look at, put it back together, run a can of
cleaner through, and then take it back apart and see what got cleaned?
That would really tell the tale.

I have pulled my carbs and cleaned the jets with fine wire, and that seems
to do the job. I have used Stabil and SeaFoam(cleaner and gas stabilizer), but
for season use, I'm just adding Mercury's Quick Silver solvent to the gas. Works

for me, but the true test is when you take the engine out of storage to start it.



I've always been in a quandry about carbs with float bowls too. I add
stabilizer to my boat gas and fill the tank as winterizing but it
mostly evaporates from the float bowls over the winter anyway.
Merc/chevy small block with a holley on it. I figure the stabilizer is
good for the gas in the tank but the carb problems are typically
because the gas evaporates and leaves crud on the inside of the jets.

On my generator, which we only use once in a rare while, I shut the
fuel valve at the tank and let the engine burn as much as it can from
the float bowl. I do periodically run the thing but I always shut it
down by turning off the fuel.

I've thought about adding a valve to the boat gas line right at the
carb so I could do the same thing to it.

Most carbs on marine engines, lawn mowers, and generators have a
drain screw for that purpose. A few of the cheaper models don't have it.


I hope Steve is running his engine dry before storage and opening this
drain plug to purge any remaining gas.

Sherwin D.



basskisser wrote:
Roadrunner Newsgroup wrote:
Can anyone recommend a good carb cleaner fuel additive that works? I try to
run out all my fuel after use (with stabil in it) but I would like to know
if there is an additive that can remove the gum from the idle circuit and
float needle that eventually builds up. I have a 1972 50hp Johnson and I
have rebuilt the 2 carbs but it is starting to get a little gunked up again.
It's been 4 years since the rebuild. It is a freshwater Northern boat that
sits for the winter. One of the 2 float needles seems to stick and free up
now and then. Unfortunately it only gets used about 25 hours per year.

Thanks in advance,

Steve

If they are gunked up, I'd rebuild them again, then use preventative
measures to keep them that way, using Stabil and starting once in
awhile as Clams has said.

I don't know if a complete rebuild is necessary. Just take a fine enough wire
and
carefully run it through the jets. It works for me.

Sherwin D.

basskisser wrote:

jamesgangnc wrote:
This is an interesting topic. I've always thought the add to the gas
cleaners were sort of snake oil. After all gas it's self is a pretty
good dissolver, what could be in these cleaners that would do it better
but still not be so corrosive that it ate up all the gaskets. Anyone
really take a carb apart, look at, put it back together, run a can of
cleaner through, and then take it back apart and see what got cleaned?
That would really tell the tale.

I've always been in a quandry about carbs with float bowls too. I add
stabilizer to my boat gas and fill the tank as winterizing but it
mostly evaporates from the float bowls over the winter anyway.
Merc/chevy small block with a holley on it. I figure the stabilizer is
good for the gas in the tank but the carb problems are typically
because the gas evaporates and leaves crud on the inside of the jets.

On my generator, which we only use once in a rare while, I shut the
fuel valve at the tank and let the engine burn as much as it can from
the float bowl. I do periodically run the thing but I always shut it
down by turning off the fuel.

I've thought about adding a valve to the boat gas line right at the
carb so I could do the same thing to it.

Do you carbs have a drain on the bottom of the bowl? Some do, some
don't. As far as the snake oil, I think maybe in the proportions that
would make it economical, that they don't work that well. A outboard
carb rebuild is pretty simple, and the kit is cheap. On our annual
fishing trip, one of the regulars invited a new guy. He brought his
boat, which had sat for months, and put it in the water, only to find
out it would barely run. I take him up to the marina in my boat, and he
buys two cans of some Merc product that has a fitting to hook directly
to the carb. Well, while we are all sitting on the dock watching, he
puts a can of the tune up stuff on, and putts around the cove, smoking
and stinking, won't get above 1000 rpm or so. Second can, same thing. I
go down there, and I do hear a difference... Asks me to run him back to
the marina, gets two more cans. Now, I never, ever thought after two
cans that more would make a difference, but he plugs in the third can,
and after about using it up, the thing starts running better and
better, then takes off!!! So, it did work, but I'd just as soon rebuild
the carbs for about the same price, and take less time, and know that
they are right. I rebuild mine on my 135 Evinrude every couple of
years, but they are problematic with small openings to get clogged
anyway.

Sea Foam is similar to Stabil, but has the added ability to clean the carbs. I
have had some success with Sea Foam, but better luck with a product like Mercury's

Quick Silver fuel additive. Some of these products will actually break off dirt
inside
your gas tank and fuel line contributing to the problem. A rusted or dirty tank
should
be cleaned or replaced. An extra inline filter from the gas tank is a good idea.

Sherwin D.

wrote:

I know several mechanics, that swear by "Sea Foam" . Some say it's the
best they've ever used.
YMMV

http://www.seafoamsales.com/motorTuneUpTechGas.htm

Roadrunner Newsgroup wrote:
Can anyone recommend a good carb cleaner fuel additive that works? I try to
run out all my fuel after use (with stabil in it) but I would like to know
if there is an additive that can remove the gum from the idle circuit and
float needle that eventually builds up. I have a 1972 50hp Johnson and I
have rebuilt the 2 carbs but it is starting to get a little gunked up again.
It's been 4 years since the rebuild. It is a freshwater Northern boat that
sits for the winter. One of the 2 float needles seems to stick and free up
now and then. Unfortunately it only gets used about 25 hours per year.

Thanks in advance,

Steve

"Jeff Burke" wrote in message
...
On 11 Aug 2006 15:17:01 -0700, "basskisser" wrote:
Again, there's been many many documented tests where they've used
various products much like, if not Seafoam, to clean carbon deposits.
Now I'm not saying that if the top of a piston has very minor carbon,
that seafoam won't make it look clean, but if you've got carbon enough
so that your compression has gone up, and results in pinging without
higher octane fuel, then it ain't going to do much for you.

Check with the Vulcan riders at vroc.org. The Vulcan 800 is known to build
up
carbon from using high octane fuel or from lugging it too much. Seafoam
does the
trick on the 800, it sure worked on mine. I don't think the carbon problem
is
causing any boost in compression, I think the "spark knock" that some have
cured
with Seafoam was caused by carbon making hot spots that caused
pre-ignition.
Some bike got so bad that the engine actually had a knock in the engine
that
sounded like piston slap or bad bearings, turned out to be real bad carbon
build
up that actually hit the pistons. Those bikes had to have their engines
torn
down. This could have been avoided if they used Seafoam, but not cured
once it
went that far.

Seems like I recall old shade tree mechanics using a device that hooked up
to a garden hose and created a very fine water mist at the carb inlet on
cars that had carbon buildup on the tops of the pistons. The very small
amount of water that mixed with the air/fuel mixture was supposed to burn
off the accumulated carbon.

I don't think I'd try this on a modern, fuel injected, $14.000.00 engine
however.

Eisboch

On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 05:44:42 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Jeff Burke" wrote in message
.. .
On 11 Aug 2006 15:17:01 -0700, "basskisser" wrote:
Again, there's been many many documented tests where they've used
various products much like, if not Seafoam, to clean carbon deposits.
Now I'm not saying that if the top of a piston has very minor carbon,
that seafoam won't make it look clean, but if you've got carbon enough
so that your compression has gone up, and results in pinging without
higher octane fuel, then it ain't going to do much for you.

Check with the Vulcan riders at vroc.org. The Vulcan 800 is known to build
up
carbon from using high octane fuel or from lugging it too much. Seafoam
does the
trick on the 800, it sure worked on mine. I don't think the carbon problem
is
causing any boost in compression, I think the "spark knock" that some have
cured
with Seafoam was caused by carbon making hot spots that caused
pre-ignition.
Some bike got so bad that the engine actually had a knock in the engine
that
sounded like piston slap or bad bearings, turned out to be real bad carbon
build
up that actually hit the pistons. Those bikes had to have their engines
torn
down. This could have been avoided if they used Seafoam, but not cured
once it
went that far.

Seems like I recall old shade tree mechanics using a device that hooked up
to a garden hose and created a very fine water mist at the carb inlet on
cars that had carbon buildup on the tops of the pistons. The very small
amount of water that mixed with the air/fuel mixture was supposed to burn
off the accumulated carbon.

I don't think I'd try this on a modern, fuel injected, $14.000.00 engine
however.

Eisboch



I've seen people, back in the old days, pour a half pound of rice down
their carbs while the engine was going about 3500 rpm. A *lot* of black
stuff came out the exhaust! I don't know if it was carbon or just burnt
rice.

Again, I wouldn't try this at home.

--
John H.

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes