Hi!

You all prolly remember when my old boat was hit by a drunk driver in late
July of 2003. As the story goes the insurance company paid us off for the
boat, left it with us, and I removed the outboard and then sold the boat for
something like $400 in August of '03 This was three years ago. All I
remember was that I gave the guy a bill of sale and that he was from
Londonderry NH. The name escapes us. He went away happy and that was the
last we've seen or heard of him and the boat.

Anyway.... about three weeks ago...... this same boat and trailer "appeared"
abandoned in the middle of a road in nearby Chester NH. So far thier
"minimal" investigation has not turned up the last owner and since the boat
and trailer was "wrecked" when I sold them I merely sold it with an "as is"
bill of sale. Our birthdays were in August, we sold it in August, so we
just let the registration expire and registered the repalcement boat and
trailer "new" as it were. No paper trail with DMV.

Anyway.... for the lack of being able to find the true perpitrator who
abandoned this critter in Chester NH, it appears that the towing company
aided by the Chester Police *may* try to invoke this statute to use us as
the scapegoats for this: ie to extort money for towing and storage and
disposal.

RSA 262:40-c Abandoning a Vehicle; Penalty. - No person shall abandon a
motor vehicle, registered or unregistered, on any way or on any property
other than his or her own without the permission of the owner or lessee of
said property or, in the case of public property, of the police department
having jurisdiction over the property. For the purposes of this section, a
vehicle shall be considered abandoned if it has been left for more than 24
hours without the appropriate permission being given. The last owner of
record of a motor vehicle found abandoned, as shown by the files of the
department, shall be deemed prima facie to have been the owner of such motor
vehicle at the time it was abandoned and to have been the person who
abandoned the motor vehicle or caused or procured its abandonment. Any
person who violates the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a
violation and shall be subject to a fine of not less than $100 and not more
than $500, and may be subject to the loss of driver's license and
registration as provided in RSA 263:56 and RSA 261:179. The court may assess
costs of abandoning a vehicle, including but not limited to, towing and
storage costs, against any person convicted of abandoning a vehicle in
violation of this section, and the director shall suspend the driver's
license of any person who has not paid such costs.
Source. 1989, 253:3. 2003, 119:2, eff. Aug. 8, 2003.

My first thought is that since we were over 1000 miles away when it was
abandoned, and since three years had passed since the boat wat totaled, 2
years since we moved..... that while there seems to be a prima facia case to
hang us with it..... that the first prereqwuisite, that he who swears out
the complaint has *good faith* to believe we were somehow responsible for
this outrage is sorely lacking. One does not swear out a complaint with
good faith they can "win" , but rather that a crime was commited and the
person charged at least remotely had something to do with it.

Also... to niggle... it appears the "vehicle" in question was not
abandoned for the required 24 hours by the above statute. Since it was left
in the middle of the road and was a hazzard to traffic, it was towed
immediately. While that's all well, good, and proper, it does seem to
nullify the aplicability of the statute. I mean, if they want to apply the
letter of the law, it cuts both ways - no?

In addition to advice..... if any of you with a long rec.boats archive...
can
PLEASE go back to August of 2003 and see what I posted regarding my *final
disposal* of the boat... it may be evidence.

-W

"Clams Canino" wrote in message news:a8Wzg.1881

... This was three years ago. All I
remember was that I gave the guy a bill of sale and that he was from
Londonderry NH.


I gather you didn't keep a copy of the BoS?

Bill of sale was primarily so new owner could regiter said boat.
As luck would have it we did have a copy.
As **** luck would have it, wife *disposed* of said copy 2 weeks before this
all came down while she was weeding out the files of old stuff. She didn't
have to admit this.... heh

-W

"John Gaquin" wrote in message
. ..

"Clams Canino" wrote in message news:a8Wzg.1881

... This was three years ago. All I
remember was that I gave the guy a bill of sale and that he was from
Londonderry NH.


I gather you didn't keep a copy of the BoS?

"Clams Canino" wrote in message
nk.net...
Bill of sale was primarily so new owner could regiter said boat.
As luck would have it we did have a copy.
As **** luck would have it, wife *disposed* of said copy 2 weeks before
this
all came down while she was weeding out the files of old stuff. She
didn't
have to admit this.... heh

-W

"John Gaquin" wrote in message
. ..

"Clams Canino" wrote in message news:a8Wzg.1881

... This was three years ago. All I
remember was that I gave the guy a bill of sale and that he was from
Londonderry NH.


I gather you didn't keep a copy of the BoS?





In calif, you file a notice with the DMV when you sell a vehicle. Boats
included.

Not that that will do you a lot of good in CA.

I sold a 1970 Nissan pickup. Filed the appropriate DMV paperwork. About
two years later I get a nastygram from some property owner 120 miles away (but
near where the new owner was going to school) telling me to get my truck off
his property. Fortunately I worked with his mom.

I sold a Yamaha motoscooter. Filed the appropriate DMV paperwork. DMV
sent me a registration bill about nine months later. I got that one straightened out
by CA DMV's solution to all wierd problems. It's a form called "Statement of
Facts". It's more or less a blank piece of paper with a place at the bottom to
sign under penalty of perjury. It also straightened out an inheiritance problem.




"Calif Bill" wrote in message nk.net...

"Clams Canino" wrote in message nk.net...
Bill of sale was primarily so new owner could regiter said boat.
As luck would have it we did have a copy.
As **** luck would have it, wife *disposed* of said copy 2 weeks before this
all came down while she was weeding out the files of old stuff. She didn't
have to admit this.... heh

-W

"John Gaquin" wrote in message
. ..

"Clams Canino" wrote in message news:a8Wzg.1881

... This was three years ago. All I
remember was that I gave the guy a bill of sale and that he was from
Londonderry NH.


I gather you didn't keep a copy of the BoS?





In calif, you file a notice with the DMV when you sell a vehicle. Boats included.

Clams, it would seem sensible that, since you weren't there and can prove
it, that should be enough.

But I saw a post on some blog the other day that court is not about
justice, it's about who can win.

Good luck.

Off topic tax registration/tax story follows:

On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 01:31:28 -0400, Chuck Tribolet
wrote:


I sold a Yamaha motoscooter. Filed the appropriate DMV paperwork. DMV
sent me a registration bill about nine months later.

When my father died, my brother and sold his car to one of my co-workers.
When the personal property tax bill arrived, we paid the tax on his truck
(which my son now drives) and sent a note to Northampton County, Va.,
saying that the car had been sold and moved out of state, DMV had been
properly notified, and asking if tax was still owed.

Six months later, in the spring of this year, I got a tax notice for the
personal property tax PLUS late fees and interest.

I sent in the payment, along with a copy of the original note, and letter
saying politely that, after they waited six months to respond to my
inquiry, it seemed to me that charging ME a late fee was inappropriate.

A month later, the county refunded the entire amount.

I was shocked.




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"Clams Canino" wrote in message
nk.net...
Hi!
Anyway.... for the lack of being able to find the true perpitrator who
abandoned this critter in Chester NH, it appears that the towing company
aided by the Chester Police *may* try to invoke this statute to use us as
the scapegoats for this: ie to extort money for towing and storage and
disposal.

RSA 262:40-c Abandoning a Vehicle; Penalty. - No person shall abandon a
motor vehicle, registered or unregistered, on any way or on any property
other than his or her own without the permission of the owner or lessee of
said property or, in the case of public property, of the police department
having jurisdiction over the property. For the purposes of this section, a
vehicle shall be considered abandoned if it has been left for more than 24
hours without the appropriate permission being given.

Now, I'm in Illinois, so laws may be somewhat different, but unless that
trailer was self propelled with its own engine and was capable of carrying
passengers, I don't believe it qualifies as a "motor vehicle". While
trailers have to be licensed here in Illinois, they don't require insurance.
And in Wisconsin, to the North, they aren't even registered or titled.
Furthermore, the only recourse the towing company would have against you is
to obtain title to the trailer and boat in lieu of storage and towing fees.
Therefore, it may be that the only reason the police are even bothering you
is to give notice that the next step unless you wish to pursue the issue is
to let the towing company proceed. You might call the towing company, tell
them your story and offer to send them a quit claim to any ownership you
might have in the trailer/boat. It might make it easier for them to acquire
title. Be sure however to make it clear that you aren't acknowledging that
you even have any ownership interest anymore. On second thought, I don't
think I would put anything down on paper in the event you haven't been told
the whole story and the trailer was the cause of some kind of personal
injury auto accident.
While living in AZ. I sold a van that the new owner took to California.
Since plates went with the vehicle, I left them on. About 6 months later, I
started getting parking tickets from California. Then California starting
adding big penalties and sending me dire warnings of the consequences. I
had no idea to whom I had sold the van, but then out of the blue, I get a
call from the owner asking me to get a "lost" title from AZ. and send it to
her as she had lost the original. I "forgot" to tell her that California
was looking for her for the parking tickets but after getting the title, I
wrote to California and gave them her address and that was the end of that.


Tom G.

"Tom G" wrote in message news:70Xzg.4082

And in Wisconsin, to the North, they aren't even registered or titled.
Furthermore, the only recourse the towing company would have against you
is
to obtain title to the trailer and boat in lieu of storage and towing
fees.
Therefore, it may be that the only reason the police are even bothering
you
is to give notice that the next step unless you wish to pursue the issue
is
to let the towing company proceed. You might call the towing company,
tell
them your story and offer to send them a quit claim to any ownership you
might have in the trailer/boat. It might make it easier for them to
acquire
title. Be sure however to make it clear that you aren't acknowledging
that
you even have any ownership interest anymore.

While the "not a motor vehicle" argument needs to be researched.... in NH
title to said towed vehicle is far from only recourse.

-W

Clams Canino wrote:
"Tom G" wrote in message news:70Xzg.4082

And in Wisconsin, to the North, they aren't even registered or titled.
Furthermore, the only recourse the towing company would have against you
is
to obtain title to the trailer and boat in lieu of storage and towing
fees.
Therefore, it may be that the only reason the police are even bothering
you
is to give notice that the next step unless you wish to pursue the issue
is
to let the towing company proceed. You might call the towing company,
tell
them your story and offer to send them a quit claim to any ownership you
might have in the trailer/boat. It might make it easier for them to
acquire
title. Be sure however to make it clear that you aren't acknowledging
that
you even have any ownership interest anymore.

While the "not a motor vehicle" argument needs to be researched.... in NH
title to said towed vehicle is far from only recourse.

-W

After you sold it, was the trailer ever registered legally by the new
owner?

basskisser wrote:
Clams Canino wrote:
"Tom G" wrote in message news:70Xzg.4082

And in Wisconsin, to the North, they aren't even registered or titled.
Furthermore, the only recourse the towing company would have against you
is
to obtain title to the trailer and boat in lieu of storage and towing
fees.
Therefore, it may be that the only reason the police are even bothering
you
is to give notice that the next step unless you wish to pursue the issue
is
to let the towing company proceed. You might call the towing company,
tell
them your story and offer to send them a quit claim to any ownership you
might have in the trailer/boat. It might make it easier for them to
acquire
title. Be sure however to make it clear that you aren't acknowledging
that
you even have any ownership interest anymore.

While the "not a motor vehicle" argument needs to be researched.... in NH
title to said towed vehicle is far from only recourse.

-W

After you sold it, was the trailer ever registered legally by the new
owner?

Michigan now makes the seller of stuff (car, boat, bike, etc) retain
proof of sale for 18 months -OR- they must accompany the buyer to
Secretary of State to make sure the ownership is transferred. That is
done just for this abandonment reason; the state wants to nail anyone
that dumps a vehicle.. But in your case: 3 years later, yikes. Guess
I should plan on saving my proof of sale receipts a little longer.