|
Mercruiser A-1 gear lube consumption
What's normal for gear lube consumption for the
newer Alpha 1? I have a 2005 Bayliner 175 w/ Mercruiser 3.0L A-1 which has little plastuc gear lube monitor. Only had it out 2-3 times this year since winter, and I noticed that the fluid level is down about 1/2 inch below the "Add" line, and I'm concerned. Its *never* gotten that low before! Today we stoped in the middle of the lake and went swimming, wading, and what not, and I looked very hard for the "rainbow", and found nothing. No signs of a leak anywhere. No smell, no film, all dry, no rainbow on water. So if the Alpha-1 was leaking/seeping gear lube, where would it be going? prop shaft seal, shift lever? I wonder if its leaking inside the bellows for the drive shaft ? is there a way to see down in the bellows from the inside? I know everyone says that it should use NO gear lube, I'm just wondering if there is any acceptable amount of gear lube that a newer Alpha-1 can consume before being concerned? I have been running it pretty hard, and longer periods of WOT, could that make a difference ? Thanks! |
Mercruiser A-1 gear lube consumption
"katekebo" wrote in message ups.com... The consumption should be "zero", nothing, unless you have a leak. Damn, I was afraid of that. So where could the leak be then ?? And if there is a "leak", out of curosity, why doesn't it leak in the driveway? (gravel pad). As I said, I see no signs anywhere. Is there a remote chance that there was an air bubble in the line somewhere from the factory from last June when I bought it, and it just boke loose somehow? Has anyone here had experience with a leak in this new of an Alpha 1 drive, nad what was the actual cause/resolution ? However..... if you have changed the lubricant recently, it is normal that few air bubbles will remain in the outdrive after an oil change. They will "purge" themselves during the first three to five trips, and consequently the oil level will drop. If the oil level continues dropping after the first 5 trips after an oil change, then you have a leak that needs to be fixed Mr Wizzard wrote: What's normal for gear lube consumption for the newer Alpha 1? I have a 2005 Bayliner 175 w/ Mercruiser 3.0L A-1 which has little plastuc gear lube monitor. Only had it out 2-3 times this year since winter, and I noticed that the fluid level is down about 1/2 inch below the "Add" line, and I'm concerned. Its *never* gotten that low before! Today we stoped in the middle of the lake and went swimming, wading, and what not, and I looked very hard for the "rainbow", and found nothing. No signs of a leak anywhere. No smell, no film, all dry, no rainbow on water. So if the Alpha-1 was leaking/seeping gear lube, where would it be going? prop shaft seal, shift lever? I wonder if its leaking inside the bellows for the drive shaft ? is there a way to see down in the bellows from the inside? I know everyone says that it should use NO gear lube, I'm just wondering if there is any acceptable amount of gear lube that a newer Alpha-1 can consume before being concerned? I have been running it pretty hard, and longer periods of WOT, could that make a difference ? Thanks! |
Mercruiser A-1 gear lube consumption
There are a number of places where it can leak and not be noticed in
the water. The exhaust and the bellows. There is really no way to get much of a view into the bellows area. You have to pull the outdrive and check inside the belows for fluid. And then it's still hard to tell as the grease from the ujoints and coupler sometimes creates some oily fluid if it has been heavily lubed. Did you ever have the pump impeller replaced? Someone may have not used a new o-ring between the upper and lower unit when they were split. Have you checked the lower unit for water in the lube? To do this you carefully remove the lower plug just enough to get a few drops out to see that they are not milky or contain water. If it is still covered by a warrenty you can try to get it fixed. If not then as long as there was not any water getting in the outdrive I'd be inclined to just check for water a few times a year and live with it until the end of the season. The pull the outdrive and have it pressure tested. At our house this is not the time for the boat to be out of commission :-) Mr Wizzard wrote: "katekebo" wrote in message ups.com... The consumption should be "zero", nothing, unless you have a leak. Damn, I was afraid of that. So where could the leak be then ?? And if there is a "leak", out of curosity, why doesn't it leak in the driveway? (gravel pad). As I said, I see no signs anywhere. Is there a remote chance that there was an air bubble in the line somewhere from the factory from last June when I bought it, and it just boke loose somehow? Has anyone here had experience with a leak in this new of an Alpha 1 drive, nad what was the actual cause/resolution ? However..... if you have changed the lubricant recently, it is normal that few air bubbles will remain in the outdrive after an oil change. They will "purge" themselves during the first three to five trips, and consequently the oil level will drop. If the oil level continues dropping after the first 5 trips after an oil change, then you have a leak that needs to be fixed Mr Wizzard wrote: What's normal for gear lube consumption for the newer Alpha 1? I have a 2005 Bayliner 175 w/ Mercruiser 3.0L A-1 which has little plastuc gear lube monitor. Only had it out 2-3 times this year since winter, and I noticed that the fluid level is down about 1/2 inch below the "Add" line, and I'm concerned. Its *never* gotten that low before! Today we stoped in the middle of the lake and went swimming, wading, and what not, and I looked very hard for the "rainbow", and found nothing. No signs of a leak anywhere. No smell, no film, all dry, no rainbow on water. So if the Alpha-1 was leaking/seeping gear lube, where would it be going? prop shaft seal, shift lever? I wonder if its leaking inside the bellows for the drive shaft ? is there a way to see down in the bellows from the inside? I know everyone says that it should use NO gear lube, I'm just wondering if there is any acceptable amount of gear lube that a newer Alpha-1 can consume before being concerned? I have been running it pretty hard, and longer periods of WOT, could that make a difference ? Thanks! |
Mercruiser A-1 gear lube consumption
Good information, thanks. Boat turned one year old
on June 29th, and I have not had the annual maitenance done. Only maintaince I've done is change the oil (once) and had the prop off to do prop shaft maintenance (lube). I'm starting to suspect engine alignment. Recently noticed a vibration when in gear at about 1888-1900 RPM just above idle. Could engine alignment cause/induce undue forces on somehting to cause the leak ? I'll call Olympic boat center to see how booked they are for getting it in to do the annual maintenance, and check engine alignment (and check for oil leaks). Also come to find out that engine alignment, and pulling the outdrive (for engine alignment and maintenance) is something that Mercruiser says needs to be done once a year, or 100 hours (which ever comes first). That could get expensive. I'm conteplating selling this boat, and going for something else (without an I/O). Either a SeaDoo 'Sportster' (jet drive), or even some sort of larger PWC. I'm very mechanically inclined, but still don't like the notion of annual outdrive pulling, and engine alignment and all of the other maintenance associated with the I/O etc. Just a thought.... "jamesgangnc" wrote in message ps.com... There are a number of places where it can leak and not be noticed in the water. The exhaust and the bellows. There is really no way to get much of a view into the bellows area. You have to pull the outdrive and check inside the belows for fluid. And then it's still hard to tell as the grease from the ujoints and coupler sometimes creates some oily fluid if it has been heavily lubed. Did you ever have the pump impeller replaced? Someone may have not used a new o-ring between the upper and lower unit when they were split. Have you checked the lower unit for water in the lube? To do this you carefully remove the lower plug just enough to get a few drops out to see that they are not milky or contain water. If it is still covered by a warrenty you can try to get it fixed. If not then as long as there was not any water getting in the outdrive I'd be inclined to just check for water a few times a year and live with it until the end of the season. The pull the outdrive and have it pressure tested. At our house this is not the time for the boat to be out of commission :-) Mr Wizzard wrote: "katekebo" wrote in message ups.com... The consumption should be "zero", nothing, unless you have a leak. Damn, I was afraid of that. So where could the leak be then ?? And if there is a "leak", out of curosity, why doesn't it leak in the driveway? (gravel pad). As I said, I see no signs anywhere. Is there a remote chance that there was an air bubble in the line somewhere from the factory from last June when I bought it, and it just boke loose somehow? Has anyone here had experience with a leak in this new of an Alpha 1 drive, nad what was the actual cause/resolution ? However..... if you have changed the lubricant recently, it is normal that few air bubbles will remain in the outdrive after an oil change. They will "purge" themselves during the first three to five trips, and consequently the oil level will drop. If the oil level continues dropping after the first 5 trips after an oil change, then you have a leak that needs to be fixed Mr Wizzard wrote: What's normal for gear lube consumption for the newer Alpha 1? I have a 2005 Bayliner 175 w/ Mercruiser 3.0L A-1 which has little plastuc gear lube monitor. Only had it out 2-3 times this year since winter, and I noticed that the fluid level is down about 1/2 inch below the "Add" line, and I'm concerned. Its *never* gotten that low before! Today we stoped in the middle of the lake and went swimming, wading, and what not, and I looked very hard for the "rainbow", and found nothing. No signs of a leak anywhere. No smell, no film, all dry, no rainbow on water. So if the Alpha-1 was leaking/seeping gear lube, where would it be going? prop shaft seal, shift lever? I wonder if its leaking inside the bellows for the drive shaft ? is there a way to see down in the bellows from the inside? I know everyone says that it should use NO gear lube, I'm just wondering if there is any acceptable amount of gear lube that a newer Alpha-1 can consume before being concerned? I have been running it pretty hard, and longer periods of WOT, could that make a difference ? Thanks! |
Mercruiser A-1 gear lube consumption
On 17 Jul 2006 05:56:29 -0700, "jamesgangnc"
wrote: There are a number of places where it can leak and not be noticed in the water. The exhaust and the bellows. There is really no way to get much of a view into the bellows area. You have to pull the outdrive and check inside the belows for fluid. And then it's still hard to tell as the grease from the ujoints and coupler sometimes creates some oily fluid if it has been heavily lubed. Did you ever have the pump impeller replaced? Someone may have not used a new o-ring between the upper and lower unit when they were split. Have you checked the lower unit for water in the lube? To do this you carefully remove the lower plug just enough to get a few drops out to see that they are not milky or contain water. If it is still covered by a warrenty you can try to get it fixed. If not then as long as there was not any water getting in the outdrive I'd be inclined to just check for water a few times a year and live with it until the end of the season. The pull the outdrive and have it pressure tested. At our house this is not the time for the boat to be out of commission :-) Mr Wizzard wrote: "katekebo" wrote in message ups.com... The consumption should be "zero", nothing, unless you have a leak. Damn, I was afraid of that. So where could the leak be then ?? And if there is a "leak", out of curosity, why doesn't it leak in the driveway? (gravel pad). As I said, I see no signs anywhere. Is there a remote chance that there was an air bubble in the line somewhere from the factory from last June when I bought it, and it just boke loose somehow? Has anyone here had experience with a leak in this new of an Alpha 1 drive, nad what was the actual cause/resolution ? However..... if you have changed the lubricant recently, it is normal that few air bubbles will remain in the outdrive after an oil change. They will "purge" themselves during the first three to five trips, and consequently the oil level will drop. If the oil level continues dropping after the first 5 trips after an oil change, then you have a leak that needs to be fixed Mr Wizzard wrote: What's normal for gear lube consumption for the newer Alpha 1? I have a 2005 Bayliner 175 w/ Mercruiser 3.0L A-1 which has little plastuc gear lube monitor. Only had it out 2-3 times this year since winter, and I noticed that the fluid level is down about 1/2 inch below the "Add" line, and I'm concerned. Its *never* gotten that low before! Today we stoped in the middle of the lake and went swimming, wading, and what not, and I looked very hard for the "rainbow", and found nothing. No signs of a leak anywhere. No smell, no film, all dry, no rainbow on water. So if the Alpha-1 was leaking/seeping gear lube, where would it be going? prop shaft seal, shift lever? I wonder if its leaking inside the bellows for the drive shaft ? is there a way to see down in the bellows from the inside? I know everyone says that it should use NO gear lube, I'm just wondering if there is any acceptable amount of gear lube that a newer Alpha-1 can consume before being concerned? I have been running it pretty hard, and longer periods of WOT, could that make a difference ? Thanks! If you look here http://tinyurl.com/ryp3d you'll see an o-ring as part #4. My outdrive began leaking one year, and I didn't realize it until I noticed some discoloration in the water as I was sitting at the dock. I believe it was this o-ring that was replaced by the shop, but I'm not 100% sure. It was either an o-ring or seal in the outdrive. Once replaced the leak stopped. -- ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** John |
Mercruiser A-1 gear lube consumption
Wow, thanks for taking the time to give me all this info.
The oil co "jamesgangnc" wrote in message oups.com... The annual outdrive alignment is probably more of an issue the first year than subsequent ones. Things tend to settle the first year and after that it's a lot less likely to change. Of all the i/o's out there I'd say not very many get an annual alignment check. Even new ones. Is it possible you have always had a slow lube leak? Alignment problems can cause premature failure of the front seal on the drive. It has to be pretty bad though. The rubber coupling can handle moderate mis-alignment. All boats have maintenance issues. One of the hidden costs of boating. Boats are nothing like cars. You'll find that pulling the outdrive is actually pretty easy. Jet drives have gas consumption issues, expect them to consume about 25% more gas for the same weight. Pwc's have their own issues. They are a lot more like motorcycle engines than your mercruiser engine. Inboards are probably less maintenance than an i/o but certainly stilll need it. They also have some sort of transmission and a shaft and prop that always sticks out of the bottom of the boat. There is no free ride. Mr Wizzard wrote: Good information, thanks. Boat turned one year old on June 29th, and I have not had the annual maitenance done. Only maintaince I've done is change the oil (once) and had the prop off to do prop shaft maintenance (lube). I'm starting to suspect engine alignment. Recently noticed a vibration when in gear at about 1888-1900 RPM just above idle. Could engine alignment cause/induce undue forces on somehting to cause the leak ? I'll call Olympic boat center to see how booked they are for getting it in to do the annual maintenance, and check engine alignment (and check for oil leaks). Also come to find out that engine alignment, and pulling the outdrive (for engine alignment and maintenance) is something that Mercruiser says needs to be done once a year, or 100 hours (which ever comes first). That could get expensive. I'm conteplating selling this boat, and going for something else (without an I/O). Either a SeaDoo 'Sportster' (jet drive), or even some sort of larger PWC. I'm very mechanically inclined, but still don't like the notion of annual outdrive pulling, and engine alignment and all of the other maintenance associated with the I/O etc. Just a thought.... "jamesgangnc" wrote in message ps.com... There are a number of places where it can leak and not be noticed in the water. The exhaust and the bellows. There is really no way to get much of a view into the bellows area. You have to pull the outdrive and check inside the belows for fluid. And then it's still hard to tell as the grease from the ujoints and coupler sometimes creates some oily fluid if it has been heavily lubed. Did you ever have the pump impeller replaced? Someone may have not used a new o-ring between the upper and lower unit when they were split. Have you checked the lower unit for water in the lube? To do this you carefully remove the lower plug just enough to get a few drops out to see that they are not milky or contain water. If it is still covered by a warrenty you can try to get it fixed. If not then as long as there was not any water getting in the outdrive I'd be inclined to just check for water a few times a year and live with it until the end of the season. The pull the outdrive and have it pressure tested. At our house this is not the time for the boat to be out of commission :-) Mr Wizzard wrote: "katekebo" wrote in message ups.com... The consumption should be "zero", nothing, unless you have a leak. Damn, I was afraid of that. So where could the leak be then ?? And if there is a "leak", out of curosity, why doesn't it leak in the driveway? (gravel pad). As I said, I see no signs anywhere. Is there a remote chance that there was an air bubble in the line somewhere from the factory from last June when I bought it, and it just boke loose somehow? Has anyone here had experience with a leak in this new of an Alpha 1 drive, nad what was the actual cause/resolution ? However..... if you have changed the lubricant recently, it is normal that few air bubbles will remain in the outdrive after an oil change. They will "purge" themselves during the first three to five trips, and consequently the oil level will drop. If the oil level continues dropping after the first 5 trips after an oil change, then you have a leak that needs to be fixed Mr Wizzard wrote: What's normal for gear lube consumption for the newer Alpha 1? I have a 2005 Bayliner 175 w/ Mercruiser 3.0L A-1 which has little plastuc gear lube monitor. Only had it out 2-3 times this year since winter, and I noticed that the fluid level is down about 1/2 inch below the "Add" line, and I'm concerned. Its *never* gotten that low before! Today we stoped in the middle of the lake and went swimming, wading, and what not, and I looked very hard for the "rainbow", and found nothing. No signs of a leak anywhere. No smell, no film, all dry, no rainbow on water. So if the Alpha-1 was leaking/seeping gear lube, where would it be going? prop shaft seal, shift lever? I wonder if its leaking inside the bellows for the drive shaft ? is there a way to see down in the bellows from the inside? I know everyone says that it should use NO gear lube, I'm just wondering if there is any acceptable amount of gear lube that a newer Alpha-1 can consume before being concerned? I have been running it pretty hard, and longer periods of WOT, could that make a difference ? Thanks! |
Mercruiser A-1 gear lube consumption
Wow, thanks for taking the time to give me this onfo.
The oil consuption seemed to happen all of a sudden. One thing that recently happened is that I did drag the fin accross the sidewalk a bit ago when pulling it out of the driveway (stupid user trick). It wasn't bad - dressed up the bottom of the fin with a file. Prop untouched, fin not bent/broken. Minor I thought. So I wonder if that event had an impact on things? I have also noticed a slight/mild vibration at 1800 to 1900 RPM when in gear (just above idle), but didn't think that it was bad enough to make too much of a stink over. So yeah, I just don't know. Makes good sence about the first year and things settle, and the coupling being able to take up some of the missalignment, makes good sense. And yeah, I would think that if it were out of alignment bad enough to beat out the bearing and seal, seems like I would have noticed a lot more severe warnings/symptopms - I can't believe that this would Alpha-1 could be *that* delicate. But needless to say, it *has* just used about 6 Oz of gear lube, so somehting is up. On the other boats, here's the rub. When I got this 2005 Bayliner 175 last June 29th, I agonized over the SeeDoo Sportster with the Rotax's and the jet drive, and mainly due to simplicity of the whole jet drive, steeting, reverse etc.etc. No prop to worry about, and no shift cables to deal with (shell-shock over the whole OMC shifter/outdrive probs). But due to price, I chickened out. I'm thinking that maybe the Jet drive sportster might have been the better choice. No annnual outdrive pulling, no prop worries, no dragging fin on the sidewalk, and remembering to make sure outdrive is up, down, trailer position, down, up ... And no shifter cable maintenance, interupter switch headaches, gimbles, bearings, seals, bellows, and what-not associated with I/O's. But yeah, maybe the SeeDoo Sportster, and jet drives, and PWC's have their own issues like you say, there is no free ride, and thats the part that I need to digest I guess. I am a full-on DIY-er, so hands on is not the issue. Just don't like situations where I need to take something to the dealer. I suspose that I can learn to pull my own outdrive to do the engine alignment too. So I got a call into Olympic boat center, and if/when they call back. I'll schedule to get it in. Thanks again! (means a lot) "jamesgangnc" wrote in message oups.com... The annual outdrive alignment is probably more of an issue the first year than subsequent ones. Things tend to settle the first year and after that it's a lot less likely to change. Of all the i/o's out there I'd say not very many get an annual alignment check. Even new ones. Is it possible you have always had a slow lube leak? Alignment problems can cause premature failure of the front seal on the drive. It has to be pretty bad though. The rubber coupling can handle moderate mis-alignment. All boats have maintenance issues. One of the hidden costs of boating. Boats are nothing like cars. You'll find that pulling the outdrive is actually pretty easy. Jet drives have gas consumption issues, expect them to consume about 25% more gas for the same weight. Pwc's have their own issues. They are a lot more like motorcycle engines than your mercruiser engine. Inboards are probably less maintenance than an i/o but certainly stilll need it. They also have some sort of transmission and a shaft and prop that always sticks out of the bottom of the boat. There is no free ride. Mr Wizzard wrote: Good information, thanks. Boat turned one year old on June 29th, and I have not had the annual maitenance done. Only maintaince I've done is change the oil (once) and had the prop off to do prop shaft maintenance (lube). I'm starting to suspect engine alignment. Recently noticed a vibration when in gear at about 1888-1900 RPM just above idle. Could engine alignment cause/induce undue forces on somehting to cause the leak ? I'll call Olympic boat center to see how booked they are for getting it in to do the annual maintenance, and check engine alignment (and check for oil leaks). Also come to find out that engine alignment, and pulling the outdrive (for engine alignment and maintenance) is something that Mercruiser says needs to be done once a year, or 100 hours (which ever comes first). That could get expensive. I'm conteplating selling this boat, and going for something else (without an I/O). Either a SeaDoo 'Sportster' (jet drive), or even some sort of larger PWC. I'm very mechanically inclined, but still don't like the notion of annual outdrive pulling, and engine alignment and all of the other maintenance associated with the I/O etc. Just a thought.... "jamesgangnc" wrote in message ps.com... There are a number of places where it can leak and not be noticed in the water. The exhaust and the bellows. There is really no way to get much of a view into the bellows area. You have to pull the outdrive and check inside the belows for fluid. And then it's still hard to tell as the grease from the ujoints and coupler sometimes creates some oily fluid if it has been heavily lubed. Did you ever have the pump impeller replaced? Someone may have not used a new o-ring between the upper and lower unit when they were split. Have you checked the lower unit for water in the lube? To do this you carefully remove the lower plug just enough to get a few drops out to see that they are not milky or contain water. If it is still covered by a warrenty you can try to get it fixed. If not then as long as there was not any water getting in the outdrive I'd be inclined to just check for water a few times a year and live with it until the end of the season. The pull the outdrive and have it pressure tested. At our house this is not the time for the boat to be out of commission :-) Mr Wizzard wrote: "katekebo" wrote in message ups.com... The consumption should be "zero", nothing, unless you have a leak. Damn, I was afraid of that. So where could the leak be then ?? And if there is a "leak", out of curosity, why doesn't it leak in the driveway? (gravel pad). As I said, I see no signs anywhere. Is there a remote chance that there was an air bubble in the line somewhere from the factory from last June when I bought it, and it just boke loose somehow? Has anyone here had experience with a leak in this new of an Alpha 1 drive, nad what was the actual cause/resolution ? However..... if you have changed the lubricant recently, it is normal that few air bubbles will remain in the outdrive after an oil change. They will "purge" themselves during the first three to five trips, and consequently the oil level will drop. If the oil level continues dropping after the first 5 trips after an oil change, then you have a leak that needs to be fixed Mr Wizzard wrote: What's normal for gear lube consumption for the newer Alpha 1? I have a 2005 Bayliner 175 w/ Mercruiser 3.0L A-1 which has little plastuc gear lube monitor. Only had it out 2-3 times this year since winter, and I noticed that the fluid level is down about 1/2 inch below the "Add" line, and I'm concerned. Its *never* gotten that low before! Today we stoped in the middle of the lake and went swimming, wading, and what not, and I looked very hard for the "rainbow", and found nothing. No signs of a leak anywhere. No smell, no film, all dry, no rainbow on water. So if the Alpha-1 was leaking/seeping gear lube, where would it be going? prop shaft seal, shift lever? I wonder if its leaking inside the bellows for the drive shaft ? is there a way to see down in the bellows from the inside? I know everyone says that it should use NO gear lube, I'm just wondering if there is any acceptable amount of gear lube that a newer Alpha-1 can consume before being concerned? I have been running it pretty hard, and longer periods of WOT, could that make a difference ? Thanks! |
Mercruiser A-1 gear lube consumption
"JohnH" wrote in message ... On 17 Jul 2006 05:56:29 -0700, "jamesgangnc" wrote: There are a number of places where it can leak and not be noticed in the water. The exhaust and the bellows. There is really no way to get much of a view into the bellows area. You have to pull the outdrive and check inside the belows for fluid. And then it's still hard to tell as the grease from the ujoints and coupler sometimes creates some oily fluid if it has been heavily lubed. Did you ever have the pump impeller replaced? Someone may have not used a new o-ring between the upper and lower unit when they were split. Have you checked the lower unit for water in the lube? To do this you carefully remove the lower plug just enough to get a few drops out to see that they are not milky or contain water. If it is still covered by a warrenty you can try to get it fixed. If not then as long as there was not any water getting in the outdrive I'd be inclined to just check for water a few times a year and live with it until the end of the season. The pull the outdrive and have it pressure tested. At our house this is not the time for the boat to be out of commission :-) Mr Wizzard wrote: "katekebo" wrote in message ups.com... The consumption should be "zero", nothing, unless you have a leak. Damn, I was afraid of that. So where could the leak be then ?? And if there is a "leak", out of curosity, why doesn't it leak in the driveway? (gravel pad). As I said, I see no signs anywhere. Is there a remote chance that there was an air bubble in the line somewhere from the factory from last June when I bought it, and it just boke loose somehow? Has anyone here had experience with a leak in this new of an Alpha 1 drive, nad what was the actual cause/resolution ? However..... if you have changed the lubricant recently, it is normal that few air bubbles will remain in the outdrive after an oil change. They will "purge" themselves during the first three to five trips, and consequently the oil level will drop. If the oil level continues dropping after the first 5 trips after an oil change, then you have a leak that needs to be fixed Mr Wizzard wrote: What's normal for gear lube consumption for the newer Alpha 1? I have a 2005 Bayliner 175 w/ Mercruiser 3.0L A-1 which has little plastuc gear lube monitor. Only had it out 2-3 times this year since winter, and I noticed that the fluid level is down about 1/2 inch below the "Add" line, and I'm concerned. Its *never* gotten that low before! Today we stoped in the middle of the lake and went swimming, wading, and what not, and I looked very hard for the "rainbow", and found nothing. No signs of a leak anywhere. No smell, no film, all dry, no rainbow on water. So if the Alpha-1 was leaking/seeping gear lube, where would it be going? prop shaft seal, shift lever? I wonder if its leaking inside the bellows for the drive shaft ? is there a way to see down in the bellows from the inside? I know everyone says that it should use NO gear lube, I'm just wondering if there is any acceptable amount of gear lube that a newer Alpha-1 can consume before being concerned? I have been running it pretty hard, and longer periods of WOT, could that make a difference ? Thanks! If you look here http://tinyurl.com/ryp3d you'll see an o-ring as part #4. My outdrive began leaking one year, and I didn't realize it until I noticed some discoloration in the water as I was sitting at the dock. I believe it was this o-ring that was replaced by the shop, but I'm not 100% sure. It was either an o-ring or seal in the outdrive. Once replaced the leak stopped. Interesting web page, thanks! However, like I said in an earlier post, there is absolutly no rainbow on the water anywhere (looked long and hard). Also, ans while we're on the subject, where does one get a "pump" to change the gear lube? - I read that you have to pump the lube "up" the drive from the bottom drain plug. (another stupid-ass maintenance/design deal). -- ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** John |
Mercruiser A-1 gear lube consumption
Mr Wizzard wrote:
"JohnH" wrote in message ... On 17 Jul 2006 05:56:29 -0700, "jamesgangnc" wrote: There are a number of places where it can leak and not be noticed in the water. The exhaust and the bellows. There is really no way to get much of a view into the bellows area. You have to pull the outdrive and check inside the belows for fluid. And then it's still hard to tell as the grease from the ujoints and coupler sometimes creates some oily fluid if it has been heavily lubed. Did you ever have the pump impeller replaced? Someone may have not used a new o-ring between the upper and lower unit when they were split. Have you checked the lower unit for water in the lube? To do this you carefully remove the lower plug just enough to get a few drops out to see that they are not milky or contain water. If it is still covered by a warrenty you can try to get it fixed. If not then as long as there was not any water getting in the outdrive I'd be inclined to just check for water a few times a year and live with it until the end of the season. The pull the outdrive and have it pressure tested. At our house this is not the time for the boat to be out of commission :-) Mr Wizzard wrote: "katekebo" wrote in message egroups.com... The consumption should be "zero", nothing, unless you have a leak. Damn, I was afraid of that. So where could the leak be then ?? And if there is a "leak", out of curosity, why doesn't it leak in the driveway? (gravel pad). As I said, I see no signs anywhere. Is there a remote chance that there was an air bubble in the line somewhere from the factory from last June when I bought it, and it just boke loose somehow? Has anyone here had experience with a leak in this new of an Alpha 1 drive, nad what was the actual cause/resolution ? However..... if you have changed the lubricant recently, it is normal that few air bubbles will remain in the outdrive after an oil change. They will "purge" themselves during the first three to five trips, and consequently the oil level will drop. If the oil level continues dropping after the first 5 trips after an oil change, then you have a leak that needs to be fixed Mr Wizzard wrote: What's normal for gear lube consumption for the newer Alpha 1? I have a 2005 Bayliner 175 w/ Mercruiser 3.0L A-1 which has little plastuc gear lube monitor. Only had it out 2-3 times this year since winter, and I noticed that the fluid level is down about 1/2 inch below the "Add" line, and I'm concerned. Its *never* gotten that low before! Today we stoped in the middle of the lake and went swimming, wading, and what not, and I looked very hard for the "rainbow", and found nothing. No signs of a leak anywhere. No smell, no film, all dry, no rainbow on water. So if the Alpha-1 was leaking/seeping gear lube, where would it be going? prop shaft seal, shift lever? I wonder if its leaking inside the bellows for the drive shaft ? is there a way to see down in the bellows from the inside? I know everyone says that it should use NO gear lube, I'm just wondering if there is any acceptable amount of gear lube that a newer Alpha-1 can consume before being concerned? I have been running it pretty hard, and longer periods of WOT, could that make a difference ? Thanks! If you look here http://tinyurl.com/ryp3d you'll see an o-ring as part #4. My outdrive began leaking one year, and I didn't realize it until I noticed some discoloration in the water as I was sitting at the dock. I believe it was this o-ring that was replaced by the shop, but I'm not 100% sure. It was either an o-ring or seal in the outdrive. Once replaced the leak stopped. Interesting web page, thanks! However, like I said in an earlier post, there is absolutly no rainbow on the water anywhere (looked long and hard). Also, ans while we're on the subject, where does one get a "pump" to change the gear lube? - I read that you have to pump the lube "up" the drive from the bottom drain plug. WalMart. But I use a presurized 2 gallon (former) pesticide spray can with a homemade spigot. (another stupid-ass maintenance/design deal). More physics than design. Filling from the bottom reduces/eliminates bubbles & trapped air resulting in a more complete fill. Rob |
Mercruiser A-1 gear lube consumption
It's just a little plastic plunger pump that fits in the top of quart
gear lube bottles. The gear lube does not circulate but it is connected between the top and bottom halfs of the outdrive via small passage. This is so the gear lube can expand when hot. Because the passage is just a small hole the only way to get the drive properly filled is to pump the lube up from the bottom drain. If you pour it in the top it just traps the bottom full of air. Drive should be the down position when adding lube. I always said alphas were a bit of rube goldburg. They have not fundamentally changed since the whole idea of bolting the bottom of an outboard onto a auto engine started. The newer merc bravoes and volvoes are better designed from an engineering standpoint. But the alpha is not delicate and there are millions of them running around so the parts are cheap. If you are a diy're you will not have any trouble removing the outdrive or splitting the lower and upper halfs. The alignment tool is about $70 and is not very hard to do. A service manual is a must as there are tricks you need to know like it must be in forward gear to remove the outdrive. Mr Wizzard wrote: "JohnH" wrote in message ... On 17 Jul 2006 05:56:29 -0700, "jamesgangnc" wrote: There are a number of places where it can leak and not be noticed in the water. The exhaust and the bellows. There is really no way to get much of a view into the bellows area. You have to pull the outdrive and check inside the belows for fluid. And then it's still hard to tell as the grease from the ujoints and coupler sometimes creates some oily fluid if it has been heavily lubed. Did you ever have the pump impeller replaced? Someone may have not used a new o-ring between the upper and lower unit when they were split. Have you checked the lower unit for water in the lube? To do this you carefully remove the lower plug just enough to get a few drops out to see that they are not milky or contain water. If it is still covered by a warrenty you can try to get it fixed. If not then as long as there was not any water getting in the outdrive I'd be inclined to just check for water a few times a year and live with it until the end of the season. The pull the outdrive and have it pressure tested. At our house this is not the time for the boat to be out of commission :-) Mr Wizzard wrote: "katekebo" wrote in message ups.com... The consumption should be "zero", nothing, unless you have a leak. Damn, I was afraid of that. So where could the leak be then ?? And if there is a "leak", out of curosity, why doesn't it leak in the driveway? (gravel pad). As I said, I see no signs anywhere. Is there a remote chance that there was an air bubble in the line somewhere from the factory from last June when I bought it, and it just boke loose somehow? Has anyone here had experience with a leak in this new of an Alpha 1 drive, nad what was the actual cause/resolution ? However..... if you have changed the lubricant recently, it is normal that few air bubbles will remain in the outdrive after an oil change. They will "purge" themselves during the first three to five trips, and consequently the oil level will drop. If the oil level continues dropping after the first 5 trips after an oil change, then you have a leak that needs to be fixed Mr Wizzard wrote: What's normal for gear lube consumption for the newer Alpha 1? I have a 2005 Bayliner 175 w/ Mercruiser 3.0L A-1 which has little plastuc gear lube monitor. Only had it out 2-3 times this year since winter, and I noticed that the fluid level is down about 1/2 inch below the "Add" line, and I'm concerned. Its *never* gotten that low before! Today we stoped in the middle of the lake and went swimming, wading, and what not, and I looked very hard for the "rainbow", and found nothing. No signs of a leak anywhere. No smell, no film, all dry, no rainbow on water. So if the Alpha-1 was leaking/seeping gear lube, where would it be going? prop shaft seal, shift lever? I wonder if its leaking inside the bellows for the drive shaft ? is there a way to see down in the bellows from the inside? I know everyone says that it should use NO gear lube, I'm just wondering if there is any acceptable amount of gear lube that a newer Alpha-1 can consume before being concerned? I have been running it pretty hard, and longer periods of WOT, could that make a difference ? Thanks! If you look here http://tinyurl.com/ryp3d you'll see an o-ring as part #4. My outdrive began leaking one year, and I didn't realize it until I noticed some discoloration in the water as I was sitting at the dock. I believe it was this o-ring that was replaced by the shop, but I'm not 100% sure. It was either an o-ring or seal in the outdrive. Once replaced the leak stopped. Interesting web page, thanks! However, like I said in an earlier post, there is absolutly no rainbow on the water anywhere (looked long and hard). Also, ans while we're on the subject, where does one get a "pump" to change the gear lube? - I read that you have to pump the lube "up" the drive from the bottom drain plug. (another stupid-ass maintenance/design deal). -- ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** John |
Mercruiser A-1 gear lube consumption
"jamesgangnc" wrote in message oups.com... It's just a little plastic plunger pump that fits in the top of quart gear lube bottles. The gear lube does not circulate but it is connected between the top and bottom halfs of the outdrive via small passage. This is so the gear lube can expand when hot. Because the passage is just a small hole the only way to get the drive properly filled is to pump the lube up from the bottom drain. If you pour it in the top it just traps the bottom full of air. Drive should be the down position when adding lube. I always said alphas were a bit of rube goldburg. They have not fundamentally changed since the whole idea of bolting the bottom of an outboard onto a auto engine started. The newer merc bravoes and volvoes are better designed from an engineering standpoint. But the alpha is not delicate and there are millions of them running around so the parts are cheap. If you are a diy're you will not have any trouble removing the outdrive or splitting the lower and upper halfs. The alignment tool is about $70 and is not very hard to do. A service manual is a must as there are tricks you need to know like it must be in forward gear to remove the outdrive. How heavy is the outdrive? And what has to be disconnected ? Very capable DIY-er, yeah, but I guess I didn't realize that I was buying into a high-maintenance endeavor like this, thats all. I mean, I'm not having to drop the transmission in my car every year to check input shaft/throwout bearing alignment, and change gear lube. I think my next boat will be an outboard so that I don't have to worry about as much stuff. Thanks for the additional information! Mr Wizzard wrote: "JohnH" wrote in message ... On 17 Jul 2006 05:56:29 -0700, "jamesgangnc" wrote: There are a number of places where it can leak and not be noticed in the water. The exhaust and the bellows. There is really no way to get much of a view into the bellows area. You have to pull the outdrive and check inside the belows for fluid. And then it's still hard to tell as the grease from the ujoints and coupler sometimes creates some oily fluid if it has been heavily lubed. Did you ever have the pump impeller replaced? Someone may have not used a new o-ring between the upper and lower unit when they were split. Have you checked the lower unit for water in the lube? To do this you carefully remove the lower plug just enough to get a few drops out to see that they are not milky or contain water. If it is still covered by a warrenty you can try to get it fixed. If not then as long as there was not any water getting in the outdrive I'd be inclined to just check for water a few times a year and live with it until the end of the season. The pull the outdrive and have it pressure tested. At our house this is not the time for the boat to be out of commission :-) Mr Wizzard wrote: "katekebo" wrote in message ups.com... The consumption should be "zero", nothing, unless you have a leak. Damn, I was afraid of that. So where could the leak be then ?? And if there is a "leak", out of curosity, why doesn't it leak in the driveway? (gravel pad). As I said, I see no signs anywhere. Is there a remote chance that there was an air bubble in the line somewhere from the factory from last June when I bought it, and it just boke loose somehow? Has anyone here had experience with a leak in this new of an Alpha 1 drive, nad what was the actual cause/resolution ? However..... if you have changed the lubricant recently, it is normal that few air bubbles will remain in the outdrive after an oil change. They will "purge" themselves during the first three to five trips, and consequently the oil level will drop. If the oil level continues dropping after the first 5 trips after an oil change, then you have a leak that needs to be fixed Mr Wizzard wrote: What's normal for gear lube consumption for the newer Alpha 1? I have a 2005 Bayliner 175 w/ Mercruiser 3.0L A-1 which has little plastuc gear lube monitor. Only had it out 2-3 times this year since winter, and I noticed that the fluid level is down about 1/2 inch below the "Add" line, and I'm concerned. Its *never* gotten that low before! Today we stoped in the middle of the lake and went swimming, wading, and what not, and I looked very hard for the "rainbow", and found nothing. No signs of a leak anywhere. No smell, no film, all dry, no rainbow on water. So if the Alpha-1 was leaking/seeping gear lube, where would it be going? prop shaft seal, shift lever? I wonder if its leaking inside the bellows for the drive shaft ? is there a way to see down in the bellows from the inside? I know everyone says that it should use NO gear lube, I'm just wondering if there is any acceptable amount of gear lube that a newer Alpha-1 can consume before being concerned? I have been running it pretty hard, and longer periods of WOT, could that make a difference ? Thanks! If you look here http://tinyurl.com/ryp3d you'll see an o-ring as part #4. My outdrive began leaking one year, and I didn't realize it until I noticed some discoloration in the water as I was sitting at the dock. I believe it was this o-ring that was replaced by the shop, but I'm not 100% sure. It was either an o-ring or seal in the outdrive. Once replaced the leak stopped. Interesting web page, thanks! However, like I said in an earlier post, there is absolutly no rainbow on the water anywhere (looked long and hard). Also, ans while we're on the subject, where does one get a "pump" to change the gear lube? - I read that you have to pump the lube "up" the drive from the bottom drain plug. (another stupid-ass maintenance/design deal). -- ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** John |
Mercruiser A-1 gear lube consumption
"trainfan1" wrote in message et... Mr Wizzard wrote: "JohnH" wrote in message ... On 17 Jul 2006 05:56:29 -0700, "jamesgangnc" wrote: There are a number of places where it can leak and not be noticed in the water. The exhaust and the bellows. There is really no way to get much of a view into the bellows area. You have to pull the outdrive and check inside the belows for fluid. And then it's still hard to tell as the grease from the ujoints and coupler sometimes creates some oily fluid if it has been heavily lubed. Did you ever have the pump impeller replaced? Someone may have not used a new o-ring between the upper and lower unit when they were split. Have you checked the lower unit for water in the lube? To do this you carefully remove the lower plug just enough to get a few drops out to see that they are not milky or contain water. If it is still covered by a warrenty you can try to get it fixed. If not then as long as there was not any water getting in the outdrive I'd be inclined to just check for water a few times a year and live with it until the end of the season. The pull the outdrive and have it pressure tested. At our house this is not the time for the boat to be out of commission :-) Mr Wizzard wrote: "katekebo" wrote in message egroups.com... The consumption should be "zero", nothing, unless you have a leak. Damn, I was afraid of that. So where could the leak be then ?? And if there is a "leak", out of curosity, why doesn't it leak in the driveway? (gravel pad). As I said, I see no signs anywhere. Is there a remote chance that there was an air bubble in the line somewhere from the factory from last June when I bought it, and it just boke loose somehow? Has anyone here had experience with a leak in this new of an Alpha 1 drive, nad what was the actual cause/resolution ? However..... if you have changed the lubricant recently, it is normal that few air bubbles will remain in the outdrive after an oil change. They will "purge" themselves during the first three to five trips, and consequently the oil level will drop. If the oil level continues dropping after the first 5 trips after an oil change, then you have a leak that needs to be fixed Mr Wizzard wrote: What's normal for gear lube consumption for the newer Alpha 1? I have a 2005 Bayliner 175 w/ Mercruiser 3.0L A-1 which has little plastuc gear lube monitor. Only had it out 2-3 times this year since winter, and I noticed that the fluid level is down about 1/2 inch below the "Add" line, and I'm concerned. Its *never* gotten that low before! Today we stoped in the middle of the lake and went swimming, wading, and what not, and I looked very hard for the "rainbow", and found nothing. No signs of a leak anywhere. No smell, no film, all dry, no rainbow on water. So if the Alpha-1 was leaking/seeping gear lube, where would it be going? prop shaft seal, shift lever? I wonder if its leaking inside the bellows for the drive shaft ? is there a way to see down in the bellows from the inside? I know everyone says that it should use NO gear lube, I'm just wondering if there is any acceptable amount of gear lube that a newer Alpha-1 can consume before being concerned? I have been running it pretty hard, and longer periods of WOT, could that make a difference ? Thanks! If you look here http://tinyurl.com/ryp3d you'll see an o-ring as part #4. My outdrive began leaking one year, and I didn't realize it until I noticed some discoloration in the water as I was sitting at the dock. I believe it was this o-ring that was replaced by the shop, but I'm not 100% sure. It was either an o-ring or seal in the outdrive. Once replaced the leak stopped. Interesting web page, thanks! However, like I said in an earlier post, there is absolutly no rainbow on the water anywhere (looked long and hard). Also, ans while we're on the subject, where does one get a "pump" to change the gear lube? - I read that you have to pump the lube "up" the drive from the bottom drain plug. WalMart. But I use a presurized 2 gallon (former) pesticide spray can with a homemade spigot. Homemade spigot ? is the drain plug a regular NPT thread ? And you can get enough pressure with a pump-up sprayer? (another stupid-ass maintenance/design deal). More physics than design. Filling from the bottom reduces/eliminates bubbles & trapped air resulting in a more complete fill. The lube is heavier than air, and is viscious, so I don't see how you would get trapped air in the unit, and the filler hose (from the lube monitor) is about 3/8-1/2 inch. Rob |
Mercruiser A-1 gear lube consumption
Mr Wizzard wrote:
"trainfan1" wrote in message et... Mr Wizzard wrote: "JohnH" wrote in message ... On 17 Jul 2006 05:56:29 -0700, "jamesgangnc" wrote: There are a number of places where it can leak and not be noticed in the water. The exhaust and the bellows. There is really no way to get much of a view into the bellows area. You have to pull the outdrive and check inside the belows for fluid. And then it's still hard to tell as the grease from the ujoints and coupler sometimes creates some oily fluid if it has been heavily lubed. Did you ever have the pump impeller replaced? Someone may have not used a new o-ring between the upper and lower unit when they were split. Have you checked the lower unit for water in the lube? To do this you carefully remove the lower plug just enough to get a few drops out to see that they are not milky or contain water. If it is still covered by a warrenty you can try to get it fixed. If not then as long as there was not any water getting in the outdrive I'd be inclined to just check for water a few times a year and live with it until the end of the season. The pull the outdrive and have it pressure tested. At our house this is not the time for the boat to be out of commission :-) Mr Wizzard wrote: "katekebo" wrote in message glegroups.com... The consumption should be "zero", nothing, unless you have a leak. Damn, I was afraid of that. So where could the leak be then ?? And if there is a "leak", out of curosity, why doesn't it leak in the driveway? (gravel pad). As I said, I see no signs anywhere. Is there a remote chance that there was an air bubble in the line somewhere from the factory from last June when I bought it, and it just boke loose somehow? Has anyone here had experience with a leak in this new of an Alpha 1 drive, nad what was the actual cause/resolution ? However..... if you have changed the lubricant recently, it is normal that few air bubbles will remain in the outdrive after an oil change. They will "purge" themselves during the first three to five trips, and consequently the oil level will drop. If the oil level continues dropping after the first 5 trips after an oil change, then you have a leak that needs to be fixed Mr Wizzard wrote: What's normal for gear lube consumption for the newer Alpha 1? I have a 2005 Bayliner 175 w/ Mercruiser 3.0L A-1 which has little plastuc gear lube monitor. Only had it out 2-3 times this year since winter, and I noticed that the fluid level is down about 1/2 inch below the "Add" line, and I'm concerned. Its *never* gotten that low before! Today we stoped in the middle of the lake and went swimming, wading, and what not, and I looked very hard for the "rainbow", and found nothing. No signs of a leak anywhere. No smell, no film, all dry, no rainbow on water. So if the Alpha-1 was leaking/seeping gear lube, where would it be going? prop shaft seal, shift lever? I wonder if its leaking inside the bellows for the drive shaft ? is there a way to see down in the bellows from the inside? I know everyone says that it should use NO gear lube, I'm just wondering if there is any acceptable amount of gear lube that a newer Alpha-1 can consume before being concerned? I have been running it pretty hard, and longer periods of WOT, could that make a difference ? Thanks! If you look here http://tinyurl.com/ryp3d you'll see an o-ring as part #4. My outdrive began leaking one year, and I didn't realize it until I noticed some discoloration in the water as I was sitting at the dock. I believe it was this o-ring that was replaced by the shop, but I'm not 100% sure. It was either an o-ring or seal in the outdrive. Once replaced the leak stopped. Interesting web page, thanks! However, like I said in an earlier post, there is absolutly no rainbow on the water anywhere (looked long and hard). Also, ans while we're on the subject, where does one get a "pump" to change the gear lube? - I read that you have to pump the lube "up" the drive from the bottom drain plug. WalMart. But I use a presurized 2 gallon (former) pesticide spray can with a homemade spigot. Homemade spigot ? is the drain plug a regular NPT thread ? And you can get enough pressure with a pump-up sprayer? (another stupid-ass maintenance/design deal). More physics than design. Filling from the bottom reduces/eliminates bubbles & trapped air resulting in a more complete fill. The lube is heavier than air, and is viscious, so I don't see how you would get trapped air in the unit, and the filler hose (from the lube monitor) is about 3/8-1/2 inch. Well, the gearcase is an enclosed, sealed, and frequently under pressure & vacuum, so if you don't vent the unit with the upper vent plug and fill from the lower fill plug, you may have some better new method to recommend to the MerCruiser people... where are you putting your displaced air as you fill the gearcase? Rob |
Mercruiser A-1 gear lube consumption
"trainfan1" wrote in message et... Mr Wizzard wrote: "trainfan1" wrote in message et... Mr Wizzard wrote: "JohnH" wrote in message ... On 17 Jul 2006 05:56:29 -0700, "jamesgangnc" wrote: There are a number of places where it can leak and not be noticed in the water. The exhaust and the bellows. There is really no way to get much of a view into the bellows area. You have to pull the outdrive and check inside the belows for fluid. And then it's still hard to tell as the grease from the ujoints and coupler sometimes creates some oily fluid if it has been heavily lubed. Did you ever have the pump impeller replaced? Someone may have not used a new o-ring between the upper and lower unit when they were split. Have you checked the lower unit for water in the lube? To do this you carefully remove the lower plug just enough to get a few drops out to see that they are not milky or contain water. If it is still covered by a warrenty you can try to get it fixed. If not then as long as there was not any water getting in the outdrive I'd be inclined to just check for water a few times a year and live with it until the end of the season. The pull the outdrive and have it pressure tested. At our house this is not the time for the boat to be out of commission :-) Mr Wizzard wrote: "katekebo" wrote in message glegroups.com... The consumption should be "zero", nothing, unless you have a leak. Damn, I was afraid of that. So where could the leak be then ?? And if there is a "leak", out of curosity, why doesn't it leak in the driveway? (gravel pad). As I said, I see no signs anywhere. Is there a remote chance that there was an air bubble in the line somewhere from the factory from last June when I bought it, and it just boke loose somehow? Has anyone here had experience with a leak in this new of an Alpha 1 drive, nad what was the actual cause/resolution ? However..... if you have changed the lubricant recently, it is normal that few air bubbles will remain in the outdrive after an oil change. They will "purge" themselves during the first three to five trips, and consequently the oil level will drop. If the oil level continues dropping after the first 5 trips after an oil change, then you have a leak that needs to be fixed Mr Wizzard wrote: What's normal for gear lube consumption for the newer Alpha 1? I have a 2005 Bayliner 175 w/ Mercruiser 3.0L A-1 which has little plastuc gear lube monitor. Only had it out 2-3 times this year since winter, and I noticed that the fluid level is down about 1/2 inch below the "Add" line, and I'm concerned. Its *never* gotten that low before! Today we stoped in the middle of the lake and went swimming, wading, and what not, and I looked very hard for the "rainbow", and found nothing. No signs of a leak anywhere. No smell, no film, all dry, no rainbow on water. So if the Alpha-1 was leaking/seeping gear lube, where would it be going? prop shaft seal, shift lever? I wonder if its leaking inside the bellows for the drive shaft ? is there a way to see down in the bellows from the inside? I know everyone says that it should use NO gear lube, I'm just wondering if there is any acceptable amount of gear lube that a newer Alpha-1 can consume before being concerned? I have been running it pretty hard, and longer periods of WOT, could that make a difference ? Thanks! If you look here http://tinyurl.com/ryp3d you'll see an o-ring as part #4. My outdrive began leaking one year, and I didn't realize it until I noticed some discoloration in the water as I was sitting at the dock. I believe it was this o-ring that was replaced by the shop, but I'm not 100% sure. It was either an o-ring or seal in the outdrive. Once replaced the leak stopped. Interesting web page, thanks! However, like I said in an earlier post, there is absolutly no rainbow on the water anywhere (looked long and hard). Also, ans while we're on the subject, where does one get a "pump" to change the gear lube? - I read that you have to pump the lube "up" the drive from the bottom drain plug. WalMart. But I use a presurized 2 gallon (former) pesticide spray can with a homemade spigot. Homemade spigot ? is the drain plug a regular NPT thread ? And you can get enough pressure with a pump-up sprayer? (another stupid-ass maintenance/design deal). More physics than design. Filling from the bottom reduces/eliminates bubbles & trapped air resulting in a more complete fill. The lube is heavier than air, and is viscious, so I don't see how you would get trapped air in the unit, and the filler hose (from the lube monitor) is about 3/8-1/2 inch. Well, the gearcase is an enclosed, sealed, and frequently under pressure & vacuum, Pressure, and vacuum ? I sure hope not ! The gear lube monitor bottle has a vented cap... so if you don't vent the unit with the upper vent plug and fill from the lower fill plug, you may have some better new method to recommend to the MerCruiser people... where are you putting your displaced air as you fill the gearcase? Heavier gear lube runs down the hose from the gear lube monitor container, and the lighter air travels up the hose, into the lube monitor and out the vented cap. But hell, I dunno - maybe there is some sort of check-valve on the hose between the gear lube monitor tank and the drive? Rob |
Mercruiser A-1 gear lube consumption
The outdrive is a bit heavy. If you get everything just right you can
have the fin resting on a block of wood and sort of slide it out. I can remove and reinstall mine myself. Most service manuals do recomend you have a helper. It is simple to remove. Your really should get a service manual. Many people do not remove their outdrive every year. I take mine out every 2-3 years so I can lube the u-joints and generally check it out. I also split it to check the water pump. I change the lube on about that same schedule. I put around 100 hours on my boat in a summer. I do let a few drops of lube out the bottom periodically to check for water and the general condition of the lube. The lube actually looks good even when I change it but it only takes a couple bottles of lube so why not. I'm sure there are 20 year old alphas that have never been removed running around out there. Sort of depends on how much you care about stuff. Of course a few of those the owner misses what would be signs of an approaching problem and ends up replacing or rebuilding the entire unit. I think most of the outboards recomend that you split them to check the water pump every year. I would not argue that outboards have advantages over i/os. But it is no free ride and a comparible hp outboard will probably cost you $10k or more. And the parts for them are extremely expensive when they break. This is because they are low volume items. For any serious work they have to be removed from the transom and that takes a lift because big outboards are heavy. I like outboards for specific boating needs. We are into the ski/wakeboard/kneeboard/tube stuff and an outboard is just in the way when you are messing with ropes and getting people in and out of the rear of the boat. With an i/o I have a nice clear sundeck and built in full width swim platform. The i/o is well under the swim deck and out of the way. I might consider a full inboard but would never want an outboard for the way I use a boat. But to each his own and maybe an outboard would suit you. Boats are a high maintenance item. They are nothing like a car. They are in the water which creates problems and their mechanical parts are run a lot closer to the limits than a car. Drive your car around at 100 mph all the time and see how much maintenance you have to do to it. Car engines are loafing most of the time. It's the reverse in a boat, boat engines are almost always working pretty hard. Mr Wizzard wrote: "jamesgangnc" wrote in message oups.com... It's just a little plastic plunger pump that fits in the top of quart gear lube bottles. The gear lube does not circulate but it is connected between the top and bottom halfs of the outdrive via small passage. This is so the gear lube can expand when hot. Because the passage is just a small hole the only way to get the drive properly filled is to pump the lube up from the bottom drain. If you pour it in the top it just traps the bottom full of air. Drive should be the down position when adding lube. I always said alphas were a bit of rube goldburg. They have not fundamentally changed since the whole idea of bolting the bottom of an outboard onto a auto engine started. The newer merc bravoes and volvoes are better designed from an engineering standpoint. But the alpha is not delicate and there are millions of them running around so the parts are cheap. If you are a diy're you will not have any trouble removing the outdrive or splitting the lower and upper halfs. The alignment tool is about $70 and is not very hard to do. A service manual is a must as there are tricks you need to know like it must be in forward gear to remove the outdrive. How heavy is the outdrive? And what has to be disconnected ? Very capable DIY-er, yeah, but I guess I didn't realize that I was buying into a high-maintenance endeavor like this, thats all. I mean, I'm not having to drop the transmission in my car every year to check input shaft/throwout bearing alignment, and change gear lube. I think my next boat will be an outboard so that I don't have to worry about as much stuff. Thanks for the additional information! Mr Wizzard wrote: "JohnH" wrote in message ... On 17 Jul 2006 05:56:29 -0700, "jamesgangnc" wrote: There are a number of places where it can leak and not be noticed in the water. The exhaust and the bellows. There is really no way to get much of a view into the bellows area. You have to pull the outdrive and check inside the belows for fluid. And then it's still hard to tell as the grease from the ujoints and coupler sometimes creates some oily fluid if it has been heavily lubed. Did you ever have the pump impeller replaced? Someone may have not used a new o-ring between the upper and lower unit when they were split. Have you checked the lower unit for water in the lube? To do this you carefully remove the lower plug just enough to get a few drops out to see that they are not milky or contain water. If it is still covered by a warrenty you can try to get it fixed. If not then as long as there was not any water getting in the outdrive I'd be inclined to just check for water a few times a year and live with it until the end of the season. The pull the outdrive and have it pressure tested. At our house this is not the time for the boat to be out of commission :-) Mr Wizzard wrote: "katekebo" wrote in message ups.com... The consumption should be "zero", nothing, unless you have a leak. Damn, I was afraid of that. So where could the leak be then ?? And if there is a "leak", out of curosity, why doesn't it leak in the driveway? (gravel pad). As I said, I see no signs anywhere. Is there a remote chance that there was an air bubble in the line somewhere from the factory from last June when I bought it, and it just boke loose somehow? Has anyone here had experience with a leak in this new of an Alpha 1 drive, nad what was the actual cause/resolution ? However..... if you have changed the lubricant recently, it is normal that few air bubbles will remain in the outdrive after an oil change. They will "purge" themselves during the first three to five trips, and consequently the oil level will drop. If the oil level continues dropping after the first 5 trips after an oil change, then you have a leak that needs to be fixed Mr Wizzard wrote: What's normal for gear lube consumption for the newer Alpha 1? I have a 2005 Bayliner 175 w/ Mercruiser 3.0L A-1 which has little plastuc gear lube monitor. Only had it out 2-3 times this year since winter, and I noticed that the fluid level is down about 1/2 inch below the "Add" line, and I'm concerned. Its *never* gotten that low before! Today we stoped in the middle of the lake and went swimming, wading, and what not, and I looked very hard for the "rainbow", and found nothing. No signs of a leak anywhere. No smell, no film, all dry, no rainbow on water. So if the Alpha-1 was leaking/seeping gear lube, where would it be going? prop shaft seal, shift lever? I wonder if its leaking inside the bellows for the drive shaft ? is there a way to see down in the bellows from the inside? I know everyone says that it should use NO gear lube, I'm just wondering if there is any acceptable amount of gear lube that a newer Alpha-1 can consume before being concerned? I have been running it pretty hard, and longer periods of WOT, could that make a difference ? Thanks! If you look here http://tinyurl.com/ryp3d you'll see an o-ring as part #4. My outdrive began leaking one year, and I didn't realize it until I noticed some discoloration in the water as I was sitting at the dock. I believe it was this o-ring that was replaced by the shop, but I'm not 100% sure. It was either an o-ring or seal in the outdrive. Once replaced the leak stopped. Interesting web page, thanks! However, like I said in an earlier post, there is absolutly no rainbow on the water anywhere (looked long and hard). Also, ans while we're on the subject, where does one get a "pump" to change the gear lube? - I read that you have to pump the lube "up" the drive from the bottom drain plug. (another stupid-ass maintenance/design deal). -- ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** John |
Mercruiser A-1 gear lube consumption
The hole between the upper and lower unit is about 1/8 of an inch.
Getting air one way and lube the other way is just not going to work very well. When you fill the unit you need to get nearly a quart of lube in the lower unit. You need it filled before you use the thing. I can't argue that filling the top and waiting may eventually get the air out of the bottom might work. But I think it would take days. Filling form the bottom works fine and when you're done, your done. Just get the little plastic pump that goes on the top of a lube bottle. It works fine and a gazzilion people have been doing it this way forever. In the case of the overflow normally you have very little fluid changing places with air. Mr Wizzard wrote: "trainfan1" wrote in message et... Mr Wizzard wrote: "JohnH" wrote in message ... On 17 Jul 2006 05:56:29 -0700, "jamesgangnc" wrote: There are a number of places where it can leak and not be noticed in the water. The exhaust and the bellows. There is really no way to get much of a view into the bellows area. You have to pull the outdrive and check inside the belows for fluid. And then it's still hard to tell as the grease from the ujoints and coupler sometimes creates some oily fluid if it has been heavily lubed. Did you ever have the pump impeller replaced? Someone may have not used a new o-ring between the upper and lower unit when they were split. Have you checked the lower unit for water in the lube? To do this you carefully remove the lower plug just enough to get a few drops out to see that they are not milky or contain water. If it is still covered by a warrenty you can try to get it fixed. If not then as long as there was not any water getting in the outdrive I'd be inclined to just check for water a few times a year and live with it until the end of the season. The pull the outdrive and have it pressure tested. At our house this is not the time for the boat to be out of commission :-) Mr Wizzard wrote: "katekebo" wrote in message egroups.com... The consumption should be "zero", nothing, unless you have a leak. Damn, I was afraid of that. So where could the leak be then ?? And if there is a "leak", out of curosity, why doesn't it leak in the driveway? (gravel pad). As I said, I see no signs anywhere. Is there a remote chance that there was an air bubble in the line somewhere from the factory from last June when I bought it, and it just boke loose somehow? Has anyone here had experience with a leak in this new of an Alpha 1 drive, nad what was the actual cause/resolution ? However..... if you have changed the lubricant recently, it is normal that few air bubbles will remain in the outdrive after an oil change. They will "purge" themselves during the first three to five trips, and consequently the oil level will drop. If the oil level continues dropping after the first 5 trips after an oil change, then you have a leak that needs to be fixed Mr Wizzard wrote: What's normal for gear lube consumption for the newer Alpha 1? I have a 2005 Bayliner 175 w/ Mercruiser 3.0L A-1 which has little plastuc gear lube monitor. Only had it out 2-3 times this year since winter, and I noticed that the fluid level is down about 1/2 inch below the "Add" line, and I'm concerned. Its *never* gotten that low before! Today we stoped in the middle of the lake and went swimming, wading, and what not, and I looked very hard for the "rainbow", and found nothing. No signs of a leak anywhere. No smell, no film, all dry, no rainbow on water. So if the Alpha-1 was leaking/seeping gear lube, where would it be going? prop shaft seal, shift lever? I wonder if its leaking inside the bellows for the drive shaft ? is there a way to see down in the bellows from the inside? I know everyone says that it should use NO gear lube, I'm just wondering if there is any acceptable amount of gear lube that a newer Alpha-1 can consume before being concerned? I have been running it pretty hard, and longer periods of WOT, could that make a difference ? Thanks! If you look here http://tinyurl.com/ryp3d you'll see an o-ring as part #4. My outdrive began leaking one year, and I didn't realize it until I noticed some discoloration in the water as I was sitting at the dock. I believe it was this o-ring that was replaced by the shop, but I'm not 100% sure. It was either an o-ring or seal in the outdrive. Once replaced the leak stopped. Interesting web page, thanks! However, like I said in an earlier post, there is absolutly no rainbow on the water anywhere (looked long and hard). Also, ans while we're on the subject, where does one get a "pump" to change the gear lube? - I read that you have to pump the lube "up" the drive from the bottom drain plug. WalMart. But I use a presurized 2 gallon (former) pesticide spray can with a homemade spigot. Homemade spigot ? is the drain plug a regular NPT thread ? And you can get enough pressure with a pump-up sprayer? (another stupid-ass maintenance/design deal). More physics than design. Filling from the bottom reduces/eliminates bubbles & trapped air resulting in a more complete fill. The lube is heavier than air, and is viscious, so I don't see how you would get trapped air in the unit, and the filler hose (from the lube monitor) is about 3/8-1/2 inch. Rob |
Mercruiser A-1 gear lube consumption
Pressure, and vacuum ? I sure hope not ! The gear lube
monitor bottle has a vented cap... so if you don't vent the unit with the upper vent plug and fill from the lower fill plug, you may have some better new method to recommend to the MerCruiser people... where are you putting your displaced air as you fill the gearcase? Heavier gear lube runs down the hose from the gear lube monitor container, and the lighter air travels up the hose, into the lube monitor and out the vented cap. But hell, I dunno - maybe there is some sort of check-valve on the hose between the gear lube monitor tank and the drive? Rob There is no check valve. I'm pretty sure filling the gearcase from the top would work. Could you give me a rough estimate as to how long it would take to fill an Alpha gearcase from the top. Seems to me that it would take a long...long...long...long...long time. Jim |
Mercruiser A-1 gear lube consumption
Jim wrote:
There is no check valve. I'm pretty sure filling the gearcase from the top would work. Could you give me a rough estimate as to how long it would take to fill an Alpha gearcase from the top. Seems to me that it would take a long...long...long...long...long time. Sure would! Just fill it from the bottom and make your life easier. Rob |
Mercruiser A-1 gear lube consumption
trainfan1 wrote: Jim wrote: There is no check valve. I'm pretty sure filling the gearcase from the top would work. Could you give me a rough estimate as to how long it would take to fill an Alpha gearcase from the top. Seems to me that it would take a long...long...long...long...long time. Sure would! Just fill it from the bottom and make your life easier. Rob |
Mercruiser A-1 gear lube consumption
Thanks for all of the great info. I'm still greatly dissapointed.
As many of you recall, this 2005 Bayliner 175 is my first real boat (that I bought brand new jast June), and now I got this gear oil consumption problem. I've recently called the dealer about it too. Did some more tests, and find that it uses about 2 Oz of oil for every 1-hour of running. So, the question is, where is the most probable place for the leak? Prop seal, driveshaft seal, or water pump? And what could of done this? dealer dude (on phone) doesn't seem to think that engine alignment would do it. Would running it at excessive speed do it? Not too long ago, I was running it at WOT for really long periods of time - could that have done it? I've only had the thing out 4 times this year since winter - could something have happened over winter? (Seattle area). I did scrape the fin on drive way, but I consider that pretty minor. I did also take the prop off recently to do what the book said as "prop maintenance". Basically clean and lube the shaft, anf reassemble - any thing there I could have messed up? How rare is it to develop gear lube consumption problems on a 1-year old Alpha-1 I wonder? And are replacing seals somehting that I can do? (very mechaincally inclined). Issue is that dealer says they won't be able to get me in till late Aug. I was thinking that if its a prop seal, that maybe I can just replace it. Also, whats involved with changing the oil seal on the upper half? and the shift lever? So what, 4 places the lube can leak from, right? prop deal, upper drive shaft seal, shift lever, and water pump area? Thanks! "jamesgangnc" wrote in message oups.com... The outdrive is a bit heavy. If you get everything just right you can have the fin resting on a block of wood and sort of slide it out. I can remove and reinstall mine myself. Most service manuals do recomend you have a helper. It is simple to remove. Your really should get a service manual. Many people do not remove their outdrive every year. I take mine out every 2-3 years so I can lube the u-joints and generally check it out. I also split it to check the water pump. I change the lube on about that same schedule. I put around 100 hours on my boat in a summer. I do let a few drops of lube out the bottom periodically to check for water and the general condition of the lube. The lube actually looks good even when I change it but it only takes a couple bottles of lube so why not. I'm sure there are 20 year old alphas that have never been removed running around out there. Sort of depends on how much you care about stuff. Of course a few of those the owner misses what would be signs of an approaching problem and ends up replacing or rebuilding the entire unit. I think most of the outboards recomend that you split them to check the water pump every year. I would not argue that outboards have advantages over i/os. But it is no free ride and a comparible hp outboard will probably cost you $10k or more. And the parts for them are extremely expensive when they break. This is because they are low volume items. For any serious work they have to be removed from the transom and that takes a lift because big outboards are heavy. I like outboards for specific boating needs. We are into the ski/wakeboard/kneeboard/tube stuff and an outboard is just in the way when you are messing with ropes and getting people in and out of the rear of the boat. With an i/o I have a nice clear sundeck and built in full width swim platform. The i/o is well under the swim deck and out of the way. I might consider a full inboard but would never want an outboard for the way I use a boat. But to each his own and maybe an outboard would suit you. Boats are a high maintenance item. They are nothing like a car. They are in the water which creates problems and their mechanical parts are run a lot closer to the limits than a car. Drive your car around at 100 mph all the time and see how much maintenance you have to do to it. Car engines are loafing most of the time. It's the reverse in a boat, boat engines are almost always working pretty hard. Mr Wizzard wrote: "jamesgangnc" wrote in message oups.com... It's just a little plastic plunger pump that fits in the top of quart gear lube bottles. The gear lube does not circulate but it is connected between the top and bottom halfs of the outdrive via small passage. This is so the gear lube can expand when hot. Because the passage is just a small hole the only way to get the drive properly filled is to pump the lube up from the bottom drain. If you pour it in the top it just traps the bottom full of air. Drive should be the down position when adding lube. I always said alphas were a bit of rube goldburg. They have not fundamentally changed since the whole idea of bolting the bottom of an outboard onto a auto engine started. The newer merc bravoes and volvoes are better designed from an engineering standpoint. But the alpha is not delicate and there are millions of them running around so the parts are cheap. If you are a diy're you will not have any trouble removing the outdrive or splitting the lower and upper halfs. The alignment tool is about $70 and is not very hard to do. A service manual is a must as there are tricks you need to know like it must be in forward gear to remove the outdrive. How heavy is the outdrive? And what has to be disconnected ? Very capable DIY-er, yeah, but I guess I didn't realize that I was buying into a high-maintenance endeavor like this, thats all. I mean, I'm not having to drop the transmission in my car every year to check input shaft/throwout bearing alignment, and change gear lube. I think my next boat will be an outboard so that I don't have to worry about as much stuff. Thanks for the additional information! Mr Wizzard wrote: "JohnH" wrote in message ... On 17 Jul 2006 05:56:29 -0700, "jamesgangnc" wrote: There are a number of places where it can leak and not be noticed in the water. The exhaust and the bellows. There is really no way to get much of a view into the bellows area. You have to pull the outdrive and check inside the belows for fluid. And then it's still hard to tell as the grease from the ujoints and coupler sometimes creates some oily fluid if it has been heavily lubed. Did you ever have the pump impeller replaced? Someone may have not used a new o-ring between the upper and lower unit when they were split. Have you checked the lower unit for water in the lube? To do this you carefully remove the lower plug just enough to get a few drops out to see that they are not milky or contain water. If it is still covered by a warrenty you can try to get it fixed. If not then as long as there was not any water getting in the outdrive I'd be inclined to just check for water a few times a year and live with it until the end of the season. The pull the outdrive and have it pressure tested. At our house this is not the time for the boat to be out of commission :-) Mr Wizzard wrote: "katekebo" wrote in message ups.com... The consumption should be "zero", nothing, unless you have a leak. Damn, I was afraid of that. So where could the leak be then ?? And if there is a "leak", out of curosity, why doesn't it leak in the driveway? (gravel pad). As I said, I see no signs anywhere. Is there a remote chance that there was an air bubble in the line somewhere from the factory from last June when I bought it, and it just boke loose somehow? Has anyone here had experience with a leak in this new of an Alpha 1 drive, nad what was the actual cause/resolution ? However..... if you have changed the lubricant recently, it is normal that few air bubbles will remain in the outdrive after an oil change. They will "purge" themselves during the first three to five trips, and consequently the oil level will drop. If the oil level continues dropping after the first 5 trips after an oil change, then you have a leak that needs to be fixed Mr Wizzard wrote: What's normal for gear lube consumption for the newer Alpha 1? I have a 2005 Bayliner 175 w/ Mercruiser 3.0L A-1 which has little plastuc gear lube monitor. Only had it out 2-3 times this year since winter, and I noticed that the fluid level is down about 1/2 inch below the "Add" line, and I'm concerned. Its *never* gotten that low before! Today we stoped in the middle of the lake and went swimming, wading, and what not, and I looked very hard for the "rainbow", and found nothing. No signs of a leak anywhere. No smell, no film, all dry, no rainbow on water. So if the Alpha-1 was leaking/seeping gear lube, where would it be going? prop shaft seal, shift lever? I wonder if its leaking inside the bellows for the drive shaft ? is there a way to see down in the bellows from the inside? I know everyone says that it should use NO gear lube, I'm just wondering if there is any acceptable amount of gear lube that a newer Alpha-1 can consume before being concerned? I have been running it pretty hard, and longer periods of WOT, could that make a difference ? Thanks! If you look here http://tinyurl.com/ryp3d you'll see an o-ring as part #4. My outdrive began leaking one year, and I didn't realize it until I noticed some discoloration in the water as I was sitting at the dock. I believe it was this o-ring that was replaced by the shop, but I'm not 100% sure. It was either an o-ring or seal in the outdrive. Once replaced the leak stopped. Interesting web page, thanks! However, like I said in an earlier post, there is absolutly no rainbow on the water anywhere (looked long and hard). Also, ans while we're on the subject, where does one get a "pump" to change the gear lube? - I read that you have to pump the lube "up" the drive from the bottom drain plug. (another stupid-ass maintenance/design deal). -- ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** John |
Mercruiser A-1 gear lube consumption
"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message . .. Thanks for all of the great info. I'm still greatly dissapointed. As many of you recall, this 2005 Bayliner 175 is my first real boat (that I bought brand new jast June), and now I got this gear oil consumption problem. I've recently called the dealer about it too. Did some more tests, and find that it uses about 2 Oz of oil for every 1-hour of running. So, the question is, where is the most probable place for the leak? Prop seal, driveshaft seal, or water pump? And what could of done this? dealer dude (on phone) doesn't seem to think that engine alignment would do it. Would running it at excessive speed do it? Not too long ago, I was running it at WOT for really long periods of time - could that have done it? I've only had the thing out 4 times this year since winter - could something have happened over winter? (Seattle area). I did scrape the fin on drive way, but I consider that pretty minor. How rare is it to develop gear lube consumption problems on a 1-year old Alpha-1 I wonder? And are replacing seals somehting that I can do? (very mechaincally inclined). Issue is that dealer says they won't be able to get me in till late Aug. I was thinking that if its a prop seal, that maybe I can just replace it. Also, whats involved with changing the oil seal on the upper half? and the shift lever? So what, 4 places the lube can leak from, right? prop deal, upper drive shaft seal, shift lever, and water pump area? Thanks! Momentary spurts of wide open throttle are ok once in a great while. Long periods of WOT running is abusive. If it weren't for the protection of your gear lube resevoir, your stern drive would probably be trash by now. In order to find your leak, you need to remove the stern drive and split it. Remove the prop and water pump upper body. Plug the small holes that transfer oil between halves, and do a pressure test. You will see the leak. If it's the water pump base seals that are bad you won't need any special tools. Otherwise start reaching in your pocket for those crisp hundreds. If you're a decent mechanic, you can sit down with a genuine OEM manual and teach yourself how to repair or rebuild a stern drive. While the drive is split, it would be foolish not to replace the upper water pump body kit. If you are the fellow that was having the thermostat stuck with sand, that might be part of your problem. The grit gets imbedded in the neoprene seals and wears away at the stainless steel shafts. Pretty impressive the first time you see it. Let us know what you find. Good luck Dude, Jim |
Mercruiser A-1 gear lube consumption
"long periods of WOT" is defined as 5-10 minutes max.
No, it wasn't me with thermostat problems. Boat is 1-year old, with less than 50 hours on it, so I'm assuming that any major work is covered under warranty, so I'm sure I'm ready to tear into it. Also, right after I made that post lastnight, I went back outside with a flashlight after spending a bunch more time googling stuff. I *DID* find something that is suspicious. I found what felt like a thin film of oil.lube on the back edge of the cavitation plate on the starboard side (on the lower unit) There is a small weep hole towards the rear just above the plate that is about 3/16 - 1/4", and on the startboard side hole, I can look in and see what appears to be something that is "wet" with oil. So I'm thinking that is is where my oil is leaking - out that weep hole. Does anyone know what these weep holes are for? And is the shift shaft directly behind the starboard hole? (appears to be some sort of verticle rod behind that hole). Is it possible that my "shift shaft seal" is leaking? - I did find one post about a common prpblem with the A;pha-I gen II and shift-shaft seal, and that there might be a bushing retrofit? - Anyone know anything about this ? Thanks! "Jim" wrote in message ink.net... "Mr Wizzard" wrote in message . .. Thanks for all of the great info. I'm still greatly dissapointed. As many of you recall, this 2005 Bayliner 175 is my first real boat (that I bought brand new jast June), and now I got this gear oil consumption problem. I've recently called the dealer about it too. Did some more tests, and find that it uses about 2 Oz of oil for every 1-hour of running. So, the question is, where is the most probable place for the leak? Prop seal, driveshaft seal, or water pump? And what could of done this? dealer dude (on phone) doesn't seem to think that engine alignment would do it. Would running it at excessive speed do it? Not too long ago, I was running it at WOT for really long periods of time - could that have done it? I've only had the thing out 4 times this year since winter - could something have happened over winter? (Seattle area). I did scrape the fin on drive way, but I consider that pretty minor. How rare is it to develop gear lube consumption problems on a 1-year old Alpha-1 I wonder? And are replacing seals somehting that I can do? (very mechaincally inclined). Issue is that dealer says they won't be able to get me in till late Aug. I was thinking that if its a prop seal, that maybe I can just replace it. Also, whats involved with changing the oil seal on the upper half? and the shift lever? So what, 4 places the lube can leak from, right? prop deal, upper drive shaft seal, shift lever, and water pump area? Thanks! Momentary spurts of wide open throttle are ok once in a great while. Long periods of WOT running is abusive. If it weren't for the protection of your gear lube resevoir, your stern drive would probably be trash by now. In order to find your leak, you need to remove the stern drive and split it. Remove the prop and water pump upper body. Plug the small holes that transfer oil between halves, and do a pressure test. You will see the leak. If it's the water pump base seals that are bad you won't need any special tools. Otherwise start reaching in your pocket for those crisp hundreds. If you're a decent mechanic, you can sit down with a genuine OEM manual and teach yourself how to repair or rebuild a stern drive. While the drive is split, it would be foolish not to replace the upper water pump body kit. If you are the fellow that was having the thermostat stuck with sand, that might be part of your problem. The grit gets imbedded in the neoprene seals and wears away at the stainless steel shafts. Pretty impressive the first time you see it. Let us know what you find. Good luck Dude, Jim |
Mercruiser A-1 gear lube consumption
"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message . .. so I'm sure I'm ready to tear into it. Correction: ' so I'm -NOT- sure I'm ready to tear....' |
Mercruiser A-1 gear lube consumption
That is a drain hole for the cavity that is in front of the water pump and
shift shaft. Any leak in the area could drain to the hole you speak of. If you have warranty you shouldn't touch anything for fear of giving them an excuse to void it. Jim "Mr Wizzard" wrote in message . .. "long periods of WOT" is defined as 5-10 minutes max. No, it wasn't me with thermostat problems. Boat is 1-year old, with less than 50 hours on it, so I'm assuming that any major work is covered under warranty, so I'm sure I'm ready to tear into it. Also, right after I made that post lastnight, I went back outside with a flashlight after spending a bunch more time googling stuff. I *DID* find something that is suspicious. I found what felt like a thin film of oil.lube on the back edge of the cavitation plate on the starboard side (on the lower unit) There is a small weep hole towards the rear just above the plate that is about 3/16 - 1/4", and on the startboard side hole, I can look in and see what appears to be something that is "wet" with oil. So I'm thinking that is is where my oil is leaking - out that weep hole. Does anyone know what these weep holes are for? And is the shift shaft directly behind the starboard hole? (appears to be some sort of verticle rod behind that hole). Is it possible that my "shift shaft seal" is leaking? - I did find one post about a common prpblem with the A;pha-I gen II and shift-shaft seal, and that there might be a bushing retrofit? - Anyone know anything about this ? Thanks! "Jim" wrote in message ink.net... "Mr Wizzard" wrote in message . .. Thanks for all of the great info. I'm still greatly dissapointed. As many of you recall, this 2005 Bayliner 175 is my first real boat (that I bought brand new jast June), and now I got this gear oil consumption problem. I've recently called the dealer about it too. Did some more tests, and find that it uses about 2 Oz of oil for every 1-hour of running. So, the question is, where is the most probable place for the leak? Prop seal, driveshaft seal, or water pump? And what could of done this? dealer dude (on phone) doesn't seem to think that engine alignment would do it. Would running it at excessive speed do it? Not too long ago, I was running it at WOT for really long periods of time - could that have done it? I've only had the thing out 4 times this year since winter - could something have happened over winter? (Seattle area). I did scrape the fin on drive way, but I consider that pretty minor. How rare is it to develop gear lube consumption problems on a 1-year old Alpha-1 I wonder? And are replacing seals somehting that I can do? (very mechaincally inclined). Issue is that dealer says they won't be able to get me in till late Aug. I was thinking that if its a prop seal, that maybe I can just replace it. Also, whats involved with changing the oil seal on the upper half? and the shift lever? So what, 4 places the lube can leak from, right? prop deal, upper drive shaft seal, shift lever, and water pump area? Thanks! Momentary spurts of wide open throttle are ok once in a great while. Long periods of WOT running is abusive. If it weren't for the protection of your gear lube resevoir, your stern drive would probably be trash by now. In order to find your leak, you need to remove the stern drive and split it. Remove the prop and water pump upper body. Plug the small holes that transfer oil between halves, and do a pressure test. You will see the leak. If it's the water pump base seals that are bad you won't need any special tools. Otherwise start reaching in your pocket for those crisp hundreds. If you're a decent mechanic, you can sit down with a genuine OEM manual and teach yourself how to repair or rebuild a stern drive. While the drive is split, it would be foolish not to replace the upper water pump body kit. If you are the fellow that was having the thermostat stuck with sand, that might be part of your problem. The grit gets imbedded in the neoprene seals and wears away at the stainless steel shafts. Pretty impressive the first time you see it. Let us know what you find. Good luck Dude, Jim |
Mercruiser A-1 gear lube consumption
"Jim" wrote in message ink.net... That is a drain hole for the cavity that is in front of the water pump and shift shaft. Any leak in the area could drain to the hole you speak of. If you have warranty you shouldn't touch anything for fear of giving them an excuse to void it. Yup - also think I'm getting the picture here too... Correct me if my thinking is off here. Shift-shaft is on the starboard side, and water pump on port. Since port side is bone dry, and s.b. side a tad wet, I suspect shift-shaft bushing seal. Also, (finally) understand the shift shaft bushing thing now. So I been seeing pics of the ss "bushing", and tools to screw in/out the bushing, but failed to under- stand how a hard plastic collar bushing could be a seal. Finally found a web page that explains it. Its a hard plastic threaded bushing with slots on the top (to screw it in/out), BUT, its got n O-ring down inside of it. Somewhat common for the O- ring to pop out, or walk itself out of hte center of the bushing, and just float around the shaft on the top of the bushing. So..... Got an appointment for Aug 16th (2-weeks from now), so we'll go from there. Question is, is it bad enough to have to stop using it for the next 2 weeks - thats what I have to evaluate now. Fear being getting water in the drive. Also, had another dealer tell me on the phone that the shift-shaft seal also acts as a pressure relief valve. (?) Don't understand that as all! - if so, pressure would pop the O-ring out of the hard plastic shift-shaft bushing, but that action would be permanent, right? How could an O-ring act as pressure relief and remain in tact? (guess I'd just have to see it all apart on the bench) Jim "Mr Wizzard" wrote in message . .. "long periods of WOT" is defined as 5-10 minutes max. No, it wasn't me with thermostat problems. Boat is 1-year old, with less than 50 hours on it, so I'm assuming that any major work is covered under warranty, so I'm sure I'm ready to tear into it. Also, right after I made that post lastnight, I went back outside with a flashlight after spending a bunch more time googling stuff. I *DID* find something that is suspicious. I found what felt like a thin film of oil.lube on the back edge of the cavitation plate on the starboard side (on the lower unit) There is a small weep hole towards the rear just above the plate that is about 3/16 - 1/4", and on the startboard side hole, I can look in and see what appears to be something that is "wet" with oil. So I'm thinking that is is where my oil is leaking - out that weep hole. Does anyone know what these weep holes are for? And is the shift shaft directly behind the starboard hole? (appears to be some sort of verticle rod behind that hole). Is it possible that my "shift shaft seal" is leaking? - I did find one post about a common prpblem with the A;pha-I gen II and shift-shaft seal, and that there might be a bushing retrofit? - Anyone know anything about this ? Thanks! "Jim" wrote in message ink.net... "Mr Wizzard" wrote in message . .. Thanks for all of the great info. I'm still greatly dissapointed. As many of you recall, this 2005 Bayliner 175 is my first real boat (that I bought brand new jast June), and now I got this gear oil consumption problem. I've recently called the dealer about it too. Did some more tests, and find that it uses about 2 Oz of oil for every 1-hour of running. So, the question is, where is the most probable place for the leak? Prop seal, driveshaft seal, or water pump? And what could of done this? dealer dude (on phone) doesn't seem to think that engine alignment would do it. Would running it at excessive speed do it? Not too long ago, I was running it at WOT for really long periods of time - could that have done it? I've only had the thing out 4 times this year since winter - could something have happened over winter? (Seattle area). I did scrape the fin on drive way, but I consider that pretty minor. How rare is it to develop gear lube consumption problems on a 1-year old Alpha-1 I wonder? And are replacing seals somehting that I can do? (very mechaincally inclined). Issue is that dealer says they won't be able to get me in till late Aug. I was thinking that if its a prop seal, that maybe I can just replace it. Also, whats involved with changing the oil seal on the upper half? and the shift lever? So what, 4 places the lube can leak from, right? prop deal, upper drive shaft seal, shift lever, and water pump area? Thanks! Momentary spurts of wide open throttle are ok once in a great while. Long periods of WOT running is abusive. If it weren't for the protection of your gear lube resevoir, your stern drive would probably be trash by now. In order to find your leak, you need to remove the stern drive and split it. Remove the prop and water pump upper body. Plug the small holes that transfer oil between halves, and do a pressure test. You will see the leak. If it's the water pump base seals that are bad you won't need any special tools. Otherwise start reaching in your pocket for those crisp hundreds. If you're a decent mechanic, you can sit down with a genuine OEM manual and teach yourself how to repair or rebuild a stern drive. While the drive is split, it would be foolish not to replace the upper water pump body kit. If you are the fellow that was having the thermostat stuck with sand, that might be part of your problem. The grit gets imbedded in the neoprene seals and wears away at the stainless steel shafts. Pretty impressive the first time you see it. Let us know what you find. Good luck Dude, Jim |
Mercruiser A-1 gear lube consumption
The bushing assembly( used to be metal) has a groove the oring fits into. It
would be pretty difficult to unseat this oring. The oring seals the bushing assembly to the gear housing. in the middle of the bushing are pressed 1 or 2 seals (I forget). The shift shaft is sealed by these seals. the shift shaft rotates about 45 degrees. The shift shaft is in front of the water pump and in back of the cavity I spoke of. There is only 1 drain hole for the cavity. There is no pressure relief issue since the gear lube is able to expand and contract and fill and empty the reservoir just like the expansion tank for your car cooling system. "Mr Wizzard" wrote in message ... Yup - also think I'm getting the picture here too... Correct me if my thinking is off here. Shift-shaft is on the starboard side, and water pump on port. Since port side is bone dry, and s.b. side a tad wet, I suspect shift-shaft bushing seal. Also, (finally) understand the shift shaft bushing thing now. So I been seeing pics of the ss "bushing", and tools to screw in/out the bushing, but failed to under- stand how a hard plastic collar bushing could be a seal. Finally found a web page that explains it. Its a hard plastic threaded bushing with slots on the top (to screw it in/out), BUT, its got n O-ring down inside of it. Somewhat common for the O- ring to pop out, or walk itself out of hte center of the bushing, and just float around the shaft on the top of the bushing. So..... Got an appointment for Aug 16th (2-weeks from now), so we'll go from there. Question is, is it bad enough to have to stop using it for the next 2 weeks - thats what I have to evaluate now. Fear being getting water in the drive. Also, had another dealer tell me on the phone that the shift-shaft seal also acts as a pressure relief valve. (?) Don't understand that as all! - if so, pressure would pop the O-ring out of the hard plastic shift-shaft bushing, but that action would be permanent, right? How could an O-ring act as pressure relief and remain in tact? (guess I'd just have to see it all apart on the bench) Jim |
Mercruiser A-1 gear lube consumption
"Jim" wrote in message ink.net... The bushing assembly( used to be metal) has a groove the oring fits into. It would be pretty difficult to unseat this oring. The oring seals the bushing assembly to the gear housing. in the middle of the bushing are pressed 1 or 2 seals (I forget). The shift shaft is sealed by these seals. the shift shaft rotates about 45 degrees. The shift shaft is in front of the water pump and in back of the cavity I spoke of. There is only 1 drain hole for the cavity. There is no pressure relief issue since the gear lube is able to expand and contract and fill and empty the reservoir just like the expansion tank for your car cooling system. Cool - yeah, I was reading about the shaft positions - 10:00 Rev, 11:00 neutral, and 12:00 forward. Ok, cool, so the bushing itself has little seals preseed in seals. Geeze, with only an occassional 45 degrees movement, don't see why it would be so common for the shift shaft seals to leak. Maybe thats just it - the shaft never moves 360 degrees, so maybe it never gets proper wiping and seating on seal lip or somehting? who knows. Also, on mine, (2005 Alpha-1 Gen II), there really are 2 drain holes, one on each side of the lower unit towards the rear. And so yeah, I agree about the venting (up into the gear lube monitor) so I don't know why the Olympic boat center service department dude told me on the phone that the shift shaft seal also acts as a pressure relief. Also read where some people say there is a check valve in line with the tank and the drive, and other say no. But there really -can't- be a check valve since the refill procedure says to pump the gear lube "up" from the lower unit until it fills the gear lube monitor - somehting you wouldn't be able to do if there were a chack valve in line. Anyways... So what is your experience with the newer Alpha-1's (gen 2) drives ? How likely is it that my shift shaft seal is what is leaking? How involved is dropping the lower unit to have a peek? Or should I say, how involved is re-assembling it correctly? I assume that you can do this with the outdrive on the boat? Probably just wait for y service appointment in 2 weeks, but just curious (roll-away chock full of tools on a cloudly Saturday, and its killing me that I can't dive in). Course, no "special" Mercruiser tools in the tool boxes anyhow. Got all the Ford 4x4 differential tools, - do they count? (Ok, joking) "Mr Wizzard" wrote in message ... Yup - also think I'm getting the picture here too... Correct me if my thinking is off here. Shift-shaft is on the starboard side, and water pump on port. Since port side is bone dry, and s.b. side a tad wet, I suspect shift-shaft bushing seal. Also, (finally) understand the shift shaft bushing thing now. So I been seeing pics of the ss "bushing", and tools to screw in/out the bushing, but failed to under- stand how a hard plastic collar bushing could be a seal. Finally found a web page that explains it. Its a hard plastic threaded bushing with slots on the top (to screw it in/out), BUT, its got n O-ring down inside of it. Somewhat common for the O- ring to pop out, or walk itself out of hte center of the bushing, and just float around the shaft on the top of the bushing. So..... Got an appointment for Aug 16th (2-weeks from now), so we'll go from there. Question is, is it bad enough to have to stop using it for the next 2 weeks - thats what I have to evaluate now. Fear being getting water in the drive. Also, had another dealer tell me on the phone that the shift-shaft seal also acts as a pressure relief valve. (?) Don't understand that as all! - if so, pressure would pop the O-ring out of the hard plastic shift-shaft bushing, but that action would be permanent, right? How could an O-ring act as pressure relief and remain in tact? (guess I'd just have to see it all apart on the bench) Jim |
Mercruiser A-1 gear lube consumption
Don't get hung up on the shift shaft seal. Nothing should have failed at the
1 year mark, so I couldn't even speculate as to what your problem is. "Mr Wizzard" wrote in message . .. "Jim" wrote in message ink.net... The bushing assembly( used to be metal) has a groove the oring fits into. It would be pretty difficult to unseat this oring. The oring seals the bushing assembly to the gear housing. in the middle of the bushing are pressed 1 or 2 seals (I forget). The shift shaft is sealed by these seals. the shift shaft rotates about 45 degrees. The shift shaft is in front of the water pump and in back of the cavity I spoke of. There is only 1 drain hole for the cavity. There is no pressure relief issue since the gear lube is able to expand and contract and fill and empty the reservoir just like the expansion tank for your car cooling system. Cool - yeah, I was reading about the shaft positions - 10:00 Rev, 11:00 neutral, and 12:00 forward. Ok, cool, so the bushing itself has little seals preseed in seals. Geeze, with only an occassional 45 degrees movement, don't see why it would be so common for the shift shaft seals to leak. Maybe thats just it - the shaft never moves 360 degrees, so maybe it never gets proper wiping and seating on seal lip or somehting? who knows. Also, on mine, (2005 Alpha-1 Gen II), there really are 2 drain holes, one on each side of the lower unit towards the rear. And so yeah, I agree about the venting (up into the gear lube monitor) so I don't know why the Olympic boat center service department dude told me on the phone that the shift shaft seal also acts as a pressure relief. Also read where some people say there is a check valve in line with the tank and the drive, and other say no. But there really -can't- be a check valve since the refill procedure says to pump the gear lube "up" from the lower unit until it fills the gear lube monitor - somehting you wouldn't be able to do if there were a chack valve in line. Anyways... So what is your experience with the newer Alpha-1's (gen 2) drives ? How likely is it that my shift shaft seal is what is leaking? How involved is dropping the lower unit to have a peek? Or should I say, how involved is re-assembling it correctly? I assume that you can do this with the outdrive on the boat? Probably just wait for y service appointment in 2 weeks, but just curious (roll-away chock full of tools on a cloudly Saturday, and its killing me that I can't dive in). Course, no "special" Mercruiser tools in the tool boxes anyhow. Got all the Ford 4x4 differential tools, - do they count? (Ok, joking) "Mr Wizzard" wrote in message ... Yup - also think I'm getting the picture here too... Correct me if my thinking is off here. Shift-shaft is on the starboard side, and water pump on port. Since port side is bone dry, and s.b. side a tad wet, I suspect shift-shaft bushing seal. Also, (finally) understand the shift shaft bushing thing now. So I been seeing pics of the ss "bushing", and tools to screw in/out the bushing, but failed to under- stand how a hard plastic collar bushing could be a seal. Finally found a web page that explains it. Its a hard plastic threaded bushing with slots on the top (to screw it in/out), BUT, its got n O-ring down inside of it. Somewhat common for the O- ring to pop out, or walk itself out of hte center of the bushing, and just float around the shaft on the top of the bushing. So..... Got an appointment for Aug 16th (2-weeks from now), so we'll go from there. Question is, is it bad enough to have to stop using it for the next 2 weeks - thats what I have to evaluate now. Fear being getting water in the drive. Also, had another dealer tell me on the phone that the shift-shaft seal also acts as a pressure relief valve. (?) Don't understand that as all! - if so, pressure would pop the O-ring out of the hard plastic shift-shaft bushing, but that action would be permanent, right? How could an O-ring act as pressure relief and remain in tact? (guess I'd just have to see it all apart on the bench) Jim |
Mercruiser A-1 gear lube consumption
"Jim" wrote in message ink.net... Don't get hung up on the shift shaft seal. Nothing should have failed at the 1 year mark, so I couldn't even speculate as to what your problem is. Cool, Ok... Just have to wait for 2 weeks till I get in to the shop. Nother quick question - would excessive water pressure from a set of ear muffs do it ? I usually only open the faucet 1/2 way, but I do have pretty high water pressure. "Mr Wizzard" wrote in message . .. "Jim" wrote in message ink.net... The bushing assembly( used to be metal) has a groove the oring fits into. It would be pretty difficult to unseat this oring. The oring seals the bushing assembly to the gear housing. in the middle of the bushing are pressed 1 or 2 seals (I forget). The shift shaft is sealed by these seals. the shift shaft rotates about 45 degrees. The shift shaft is in front of the water pump and in back of the cavity I spoke of. There is only 1 drain hole for the cavity. There is no pressure relief issue since the gear lube is able to expand and contract and fill and empty the reservoir just like the expansion tank for your car cooling system. Cool - yeah, I was reading about the shaft positions - 10:00 Rev, 11:00 neutral, and 12:00 forward. Ok, cool, so the bushing itself has little seals preseed in seals. Geeze, with only an occassional 45 degrees movement, don't see why it would be so common for the shift shaft seals to leak. Maybe thats just it - the shaft never moves 360 degrees, so maybe it never gets proper wiping and seating on seal lip or somehting? who knows. Also, on mine, (2005 Alpha-1 Gen II), there really are 2 drain holes, one on each side of the lower unit towards the rear. And so yeah, I agree about the venting (up into the gear lube monitor) so I don't know why the Olympic boat center service department dude told me on the phone that the shift shaft seal also acts as a pressure relief. Also read where some people say there is a check valve in line with the tank and the drive, and other say no. But there really -can't- be a check valve since the refill procedure says to pump the gear lube "up" from the lower unit until it fills the gear lube monitor - somehting you wouldn't be able to do if there were a chack valve in line. Anyways... So what is your experience with the newer Alpha-1's (gen 2) drives ? How likely is it that my shift shaft seal is what is leaking? How involved is dropping the lower unit to have a peek? Or should I say, how involved is re-assembling it correctly? I assume that you can do this with the outdrive on the boat? Probably just wait for y service appointment in 2 weeks, but just curious (roll-away chock full of tools on a cloudly Saturday, and its killing me that I can't dive in). Course, no "special" Mercruiser tools in the tool boxes anyhow. Got all the Ford 4x4 differential tools, - do they count? (Ok, joking) "Mr Wizzard" wrote in message ... Yup - also think I'm getting the picture here too... Correct me if my thinking is off here. Shift-shaft is on the starboard side, and water pump on port. Since port side is bone dry, and s.b. side a tad wet, I suspect shift-shaft bushing seal. Also, (finally) understand the shift shaft bushing thing now. So I been seeing pics of the ss "bushing", and tools to screw in/out the bushing, but failed to under- stand how a hard plastic collar bushing could be a seal. Finally found a web page that explains it. Its a hard plastic threaded bushing with slots on the top (to screw it in/out), BUT, its got n O-ring down inside of it. Somewhat common for the O- ring to pop out, or walk itself out of hte center of the bushing, and just float around the shaft on the top of the bushing. So..... Got an appointment for Aug 16th (2-weeks from now), so we'll go from there. Question is, is it bad enough to have to stop using it for the next 2 weeks - thats what I have to evaluate now. Fear being getting water in the drive. Also, had another dealer tell me on the phone that the shift-shaft seal also acts as a pressure relief valve. (?) Don't understand that as all! - if so, pressure would pop the O-ring out of the hard plastic shift-shaft bushing, but that action would be permanent, right? How could an O-ring act as pressure relief and remain in tact? (guess I'd just have to see it all apart on the bench) Jim |
Mercruiser A-1 gear lube consumption
no
"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message . .. "Jim" wrote in message ink.net... Don't get hung up on the shift shaft seal. Nothing should have failed at the 1 year mark, so I couldn't even speculate as to what your problem is. Cool, Ok... Just have to wait for 2 weeks till I get in to the shop. Nother quick question - would excessive water pressure from a set of ear muffs do it ? I usually only open the faucet 1/2 way, but I do have pretty high water pressure. "Mr Wizzard" wrote in message . .. "Jim" wrote in message ink.net... The bushing assembly( used to be metal) has a groove the oring fits into. It would be pretty difficult to unseat this oring. The oring seals the bushing assembly to the gear housing. in the middle of the bushing are pressed 1 or 2 seals (I forget). The shift shaft is sealed by these seals. the shift shaft rotates about 45 degrees. The shift shaft is in front of the water pump and in back of the cavity I spoke of. There is only 1 drain hole for the cavity. There is no pressure relief issue since the gear lube is able to expand and contract and fill and empty the reservoir just like the expansion tank for your car cooling system. Cool - yeah, I was reading about the shaft positions - 10:00 Rev, 11:00 neutral, and 12:00 forward. Ok, cool, so the bushing itself has little seals preseed in seals. Geeze, with only an occassional 45 degrees movement, don't see why it would be so common for the shift shaft seals to leak. Maybe thats just it - the shaft never moves 360 degrees, so maybe it never gets proper wiping and seating on seal lip or somehting? who knows. Also, on mine, (2005 Alpha-1 Gen II), there really are 2 drain holes, one on each side of the lower unit towards the rear. And so yeah, I agree about the venting (up into the gear lube monitor) so I don't know why the Olympic boat center service department dude told me on the phone that the shift shaft seal also acts as a pressure relief. Also read where some people say there is a check valve in line with the tank and the drive, and other say no. But there really -can't- be a check valve since the refill procedure says to pump the gear lube "up" from the lower unit until it fills the gear lube monitor - somehting you wouldn't be able to do if there were a chack valve in line. Anyways... So what is your experience with the newer Alpha-1's (gen 2) drives ? How likely is it that my shift shaft seal is what is leaking? How involved is dropping the lower unit to have a peek? Or should I say, how involved is re-assembling it correctly? I assume that you can do this with the outdrive on the boat? Probably just wait for y service appointment in 2 weeks, but just curious (roll-away chock full of tools on a cloudly Saturday, and its killing me that I can't dive in). Course, no "special" Mercruiser tools in the tool boxes anyhow. Got all the Ford 4x4 differential tools, - do they count? (Ok, joking) "Mr Wizzard" wrote in message ... Yup - also think I'm getting the picture here too... Correct me if my thinking is off here. Shift-shaft is on the starboard side, and water pump on port. Since port side is bone dry, and s.b. side a tad wet, I suspect shift-shaft bushing seal. Also, (finally) understand the shift shaft bushing thing now. So I been seeing pics of the ss "bushing", and tools to screw in/out the bushing, but failed to under- stand how a hard plastic collar bushing could be a seal. Finally found a web page that explains it. Its a hard plastic threaded bushing with slots on the top (to screw it in/out), BUT, its got n O-ring down inside of it. Somewhat common for the O- ring to pop out, or walk itself out of hte center of the bushing, and just float around the shaft on the top of the bushing. So..... Got an appointment for Aug 16th (2-weeks from now), so we'll go from there. Question is, is it bad enough to have to stop using it for the next 2 weeks - thats what I have to evaluate now. Fear being getting water in the drive. Also, had another dealer tell me on the phone that the shift-shaft seal also acts as a pressure relief valve. (?) Don't understand that as all! - if so, pressure would pop the O-ring out of the hard plastic shift-shaft bushing, but that action would be permanent, right? How could an O-ring act as pressure relief and remain in tact? (guess I'd just have to see it all apart on the bench) Jim |
Update: Mercruiser A-1 gear lube consumption
Finally!. I got my service appointment today. In by 9AM,
and they called me at work at 2PM and said come get it. I droped it off with a laundry list - main issue being how it started using 2 oz/hour of gear lube after 1 year. Here is what I got back: 1) Found no oil leak, stern drive passed pressure test. Customer needs to understand that oil in lube res. will drop as air pockets in drive surface. (Removed steern drive, replaced gaskets, bellows Ok, dry, clean, good shape. 2) slight vibration at 1,900 RPM is normal, this is a "transition point" for this engine, and also depends on position of stern drive etc. 3) valve ticking: this is normal for this engine. 4) slight play in steering: This is normal for a one-cable steering system. 5) Performed stern drive maintenance, checked engine alignment, lubed bearings, u-joints, checked/lubed shifting cables and other associated parts for annual maint. 6) replaced cup holder in engine cover. 7) broken block drain hose pull up bracket ordered. Price included in this invoice. 8) Changed oil. Total: parts/2.0 hr labor, oil, shop aupplies etc: $250 Total with Tax: $270 So there you have it. No one in the shop can explain why a 1-year old boat would finally decide to burb up an air pocket/bubble after so much time, but thats the deal. The air pocket was believed to be in the drive, not the hose leading up to the resivor. Took the boat right out to the lake this afternoon after picking it up, and had a nice birthday outting. Boat ran fine, even seemed to run a little better that normal. Coupla beers, few smokes, tearing it up, fast, slow, trolling, hole-shots, you name it. boat seems 100%, just no arguing that, period. Hope this info, and my experience helps others. Noteworthy point being that it is possible that a trapped airpocket in the stern drive can break loose after 1+ years. Size of bubble was 6 oz. coolness. (still decideing whether to keep it or sell it), but not so consumed with that whole thought so much now. "Jim" wrote in message ink.net... no "Mr Wizzard" wrote in message . .. "Jim" wrote in message ink.net... Don't get hung up on the shift shaft seal. Nothing should have failed at the 1 year mark, so I couldn't even speculate as to what your problem is. Cool, Ok... Just have to wait for 2 weeks till I get in to the shop. Nother quick question - would excessive water pressure from a set of ear muffs do it ? I usually only open the faucet 1/2 way, but I do have pretty high water pressure. "Mr Wizzard" wrote in message . .. "Jim" wrote in message ink.net... The bushing assembly( used to be metal) has a groove the oring fits into. It would be pretty difficult to unseat this oring. The oring seals the bushing assembly to the gear housing. in the middle of the bushing are pressed 1 or 2 seals (I forget). The shift shaft is sealed by these seals. the shift shaft rotates about 45 degrees. The shift shaft is in front of the water pump and in back of the cavity I spoke of. There is only 1 drain hole for the cavity. There is no pressure relief issue since the gear lube is able to expand and contract and fill and empty the reservoir just like the expansion tank for your car cooling system. Cool - yeah, I was reading about the shaft positions - 10:00 Rev, 11:00 neutral, and 12:00 forward. Ok, cool, so the bushing itself has little seals preseed in seals. Geeze, with only an occassional 45 degrees movement, don't see why it would be so common for the shift shaft seals to leak. Maybe thats just it - the shaft never moves 360 degrees, so maybe it never gets proper wiping and seating on seal lip or somehting? who knows. Also, on mine, (2005 Alpha-1 Gen II), there really are 2 drain holes, one on each side of the lower unit towards the rear. And so yeah, I agree about the venting (up into the gear lube monitor) so I don't know why the Olympic boat center service department dude told me on the phone that the shift shaft seal also acts as a pressure relief. Also read where some people say there is a check valve in line with the tank and the drive, and other say no. But there really -can't- be a check valve since the refill procedure says to pump the gear lube "up" from the lower unit until it fills the gear lube monitor - somehting you wouldn't be able to do if there were a chack valve in line. Anyways... So what is your experience with the newer Alpha-1's (gen 2) drives ? How likely is it that my shift shaft seal is what is leaking? How involved is dropping the lower unit to have a peek? Or should I say, how involved is re-assembling it correctly? I assume that you can do this with the outdrive on the boat? Probably just wait for y service appointment in 2 weeks, but just curious (roll-away chock full of tools on a cloudly Saturday, and its killing me that I can't dive in). Course, no "special" Mercruiser tools in the tool boxes anyhow. Got all the Ford 4x4 differential tools, - do they count? (Ok, joking) "Mr Wizzard" wrote in message ... Yup - also think I'm getting the picture here too... Correct me if my thinking is off here. Shift-shaft is on the starboard side, and water pump on port. Since port side is bone dry, and s.b. side a tad wet, I suspect shift-shaft bushing seal. Also, (finally) understand the shift shaft bushing thing now. So I been seeing pics of the ss "bushing", and tools to screw in/out the bushing, but failed to under- stand how a hard plastic collar bushing could be a seal. Finally found a web page that explains it. Its a hard plastic threaded bushing with slots on the top (to screw it in/out), BUT, its got n O-ring down inside of it. Somewhat common for the O- ring to pop out, or walk itself out of hte center of the bushing, and just float around the shaft on the top of the bushing. So..... Got an appointment for Aug 16th (2-weeks from now), so we'll go from there. Question is, is it bad enough to have to stop using it for the next 2 weeks - thats what I have to evaluate now. Fear being getting water in the drive. Also, had another dealer tell me on the phone that the shift-shaft seal also acts as a pressure relief valve. (?) Don't understand that as all! - if so, pressure would pop the O-ring out of the hard plastic shift-shaft bushing, but that action would be permanent, right? How could an O-ring act as pressure relief and remain in tact? (guess I'd just have to see it all apart on the bench) Jim |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:09 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 BoatBanter.com