We made it back without swimming! What a wonderful river.

Tyee we scouted, looked big and pushy so, but at 2900 cfs we were able to
ran it far left against the left bank.

Upper Black Bar we also scouted, and it looked nasty. One raft didn't get
far enough right in time and dropped side ways into the hole, jettisoning
the oarsman, but fortunately didn't flip. We hugged the far right bank and
did ok.

Mule Creek Canyon - Coffee Pot wasn't a problem, just maintained momentum.
Next time canoe goes before raft. Didn't recognize Telfer at all.

Blossom Bar was "interesting". Did an unintentional eddy turn in the middle
which caused us to ride up on the pillow on the "VW Rock", but we came out
dry.

Thank you so much for your advice everyone. We're ready to go back. I
hope to have pictures at www.rapids2.myphotoalbum.com by the end of the
week.

Carol Krueger

Pictures have been posted www.rapids2.myphotoalbum.com

Carol


"krueger" wrote in message
news:Yh_sg.154737$k%3.96200@dukeread12...
We made it back without swimming! What a wonderful river.

Tyee we scouted, looked big and pushy so, but at 2900 cfs we were able to
ran it far left against the left bank.

Upper Black Bar we also scouted, and it looked nasty. One raft didn't get
far enough right in time and dropped side ways into the hole, jettisoning
the oarsman, but fortunately didn't flip. We hugged the far right bank
and did ok.

Mule Creek Canyon - Coffee Pot wasn't a problem, just maintained momentum.
Next time canoe goes before raft. Didn't recognize Telfer at all.

Blossom Bar was "interesting". Did an unintentional eddy turn in the
middle which caused us to ride up on the pillow on the "VW Rock", but we
came out dry.

Thank you so much for your advice everyone. We're ready to go back. I
hope to have pictures at www.rapids2.myphotoalbum.com by the end of the
week.

Carol Krueger

Carol Krueger wrote:
We made it back without swimming! What a wonderful river.
Tyee we scouted, looked big and pushy so, but at 2900 cfs we were able to
ran it far left against the left bank.
Upper Black Bar we also scouted, and it looked nasty. One raft didn't get
far enough right in time and dropped side ways into the hole, jettisoning
the oarsman, but fortunately didn't flip. We hugged the far right bank and
did ok.
Mule Creek Canyon - Coffee Pot wasn't a problem, just maintained momentum.
Next time canoe goes before raft. Didn't recognize Telfer at all.
Blossom Bar was "interesting". Did an unintentional eddy turn in the middle
which caused us to ride up on the pillow on "VW Rock", but we came out dry.
... pictures at www.rapids2.myphotoalbum.com

Thanks for the trip report! Congratulations on having no swims.

I enjoyed the pictures too. Your canoe was riding pretty low in the water
in some instances. It must be heavier to paddle in that state.

Bill,

So adding to the report: At the Alameda put-in, , my 9 yr old nephew stated
he wanted his aunt (me) in the raft with him and his mom could paddle with
his uncle Dave. Only other time she's been in an OC2 was 4 yrs ago. The
picture you're referring to is them at the bottom of Graves Creek Rapid
full, but upright (no swims for them either). The Dimension handles great
full of water i.e.: one can still maneuver the thing.. That was our big
disappointment with the Caption set up tandem, when full of water it was
impossible to stay upright.

Carol
ps.

The Graves Creek series were taken with the Olympus 740 with housing on
motor drive and I posted only half of that set. About half the shots were
with the Pentex WPI, not good for sequential action shots, but love the
ability to carry it on me.

krueger wrote:

So adding to the report: At the Alameda put-in, , my 9 yr old nephew stated
he wanted his aunt (me) in the raft with him and his mom could paddle with
his uncle Dave. Only other time she's been in an OC2 was 4 yrs ago. The
picture you're referring to is them at the bottom of Graves Creek Rapid
full, but upright (no swims for them either). The Dimension handles great
full of water i.e.: one can still maneuver the thing.. That was our big
disappointment with the Caption set up tandem, when full of water it was
impossible to stay upright.

Why do you think the Caption tandem is so unstable when full of water?
Both Dimension and Caption canoes are made by Dagger: you'd think they'd
know how to prevent that behavior.

On a lower Tuolumne trip last fall (below La Grange dam) we had one spot
where two canoes tipped over. In my IK, I helped with rescue, and was
flabbergasted how easy it was to push fully-waterlogged canoes to shore.
So I'm not surprised they handle well in that state, especially if they
aren't really full due to float bags (the canoes on the lower Tuolumne
had no float bags).

Bill,

Not really sure.

The big difference between the two is length, width and amount of
tumblehome. Don't really remember how wide the Caption was, but 6 inches
narrower maybe????? It also had a tendency to dive into waves whereas the
Dimension climbed, but think they had same amount of rocker. We would do
the same run/level with both boats, the Dimension dry, Caption wet, and I
don't think it was "us". Anyone else have any thoughts?

We always thought of the Dimension as a "big water work horse", the Caption
a "hot-rod" play boat.
We got the first Dimension in '91, now working on #2. The Caption we bought
in '96 and sold '04 and had not been used for several years.


Carol

"Bill Tuthill" wrote in message ...
krueger wrote:


Why do you think the Caption tandem is so unstable when full of water?
Both Dimension and Caption canoes are made by Dagger: you'd think they'd
know how to prevent that behavior.

On a lower Tuolumne trip last fall (below La Grange dam) we had one spot
where two canoes tipped over. In my IK, I helped with rescue, and was
flabbergasted how easy it was to push fully-waterlogged canoes to shore.
So I'm not surprised they handle well in that state, especially if they
aren't really full due to float bags (the canoes on the lower Tuolumne
had no float bags).

krueger wrote:
Bill,

Not really sure.

The big difference between the two is length, width and amount of
tumblehome. Don't really remember how wide the Caption was, but 6 inches
narrower maybe????? It also had a tendency to dive into waves whereas the
Dimension climbed, but think they had same amount of rocker. We would do
the same run/level with both boats, the Dimension dry, Caption wet, and I
don't think it was "us". Anyone else have any thoughts?

We always thought of the Dimension as a "big water work horse", the Caption
a "hot-rod" play boat.
We got the first Dimension in '91, now working on #2. The Caption we bought
in '96 and sold '04 and had not been used for several years.


Carol

"Bill Tuthill" wrote in message ...
krueger wrote:


Why do you think the Caption tandem is so unstable when full of water?
Both Dimension and Caption canoes are made by Dagger: you'd think they'd
know how to prevent that behavior.

On a lower Tuolumne trip last fall (below La Grange dam) we had one spot
where two canoes tipped over. In my IK, I helped with rescue, and was
flabbergasted how easy it was to push fully-waterlogged canoes to shore.
So I'm not surprised they handle well in that state, especially if they
aren't really full due to float bags (the canoes on the lower Tuolumne
had no float bags).


Performance vs. stability is always a tradeoff.

Typically, they don't handle at all well when swamped. Are you, Bill,
referring to a whitewater boat, fully bagged, floating upside down?
THOSE are easy to push around because they weigh less than 100# unless
they have a lot of gear lashed in. But right-side-up and full of water
(at 8#/gal.) a canoe may be carrying 400# more than its original load
(you and yer partner), and ~700# is an absolute bear to move and
maneuver.


PS, I bought the Pentax Optio W10 before I left on my recent 3-week
Rocky Mountain boating trip. Shot nearly 700 pictures; haven't
downloaded them for full-screen viewing yet. I'm not very excited
about the slow reaction-time and dimness of the monitor, nor the lag
between click and pic (which caused most of my close-up action shots to
catch the subject halfway out of frame).


-Richard, His Kanubic Travesty
--

================================================== ====================
Richard Hopley Winston-Salem, NC, USA
rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net
Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll
rhopley[at]wfubmc[dot]edu
OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters
================================================== ====================

Oci-One Kanubi wrote:
On a lower Tuolumne trip last fall (below La Grange dam) we had one spot
where two canoes tipped over. In my IK, I helped with rescue, and was
flabbergasted how easy it was to push fully-waterlogged canoes to shore.
So I'm not surprised they handle well in that state, especially if they
aren't really full due to float bags (the canoes on the lower Tuolumne
had no float bags).

Performance vs. stability is always a tradeoff.

Typically, they don't handle at all well when swamped. Are you, Bill,
referring to a whitewater boat, fully bagged, floating upside down?
THOSE are easy to push around because they weigh less than 100# unless
they have a lot of gear lashed in. But right-side-up and full of water
(at 8#/gal.) a canoe may be carrying 400# more than its original load
(you & yer partner), and ~700# is an absolute bear to move and maneuver.

No, these canoes did not have float bags and I don't believe they were
full-on whitewater canoes, although they weren't Grumman aluminum either.
When I rescue inflatable kayaks, they tend not to go in a straight line,
making it quite difficult to get them into an eddy. It just seemed easier
to rescue these 700# water-filled canoes!

PS, I bought the Pentax Optio W10 before I left on my recent 3-week
Rocky Mountain boating trip. Shot nearly 700 pictures; haven't
downloaded them for full-screen viewing yet. I'm not very excited
about the slow reaction-time and dimness of the monitor, nor the lag
between click and pic (which caused most of my close-up action shots to
catch the subject halfway out of frame).

Thanks for the report. I'm fairly certain I'll get a Fuji F30 soon
because it's the only small digital camera that goes up to ISO 3200.
Therefore it is the first digicam that has an inherent advantage,
other than convenience and per-image cost, over film-based P&S cameras.