A bad day on the boat
 

On Mon, 03 Jul 2006 10:54:58 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

Jim wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
JimH wrote:
1997 43.L Chevy 350 6 cylinder. Freshwater. Manifolds and risers are
original.

Tuned up just weeks ago with only 4.2 hours on the engine following the
tune-up.

Thermostat was replaced in spring.


I wonder if your tune-up guys pooched something and didn't tell you.
Not likely. More likely a scenario like this: Plastic bag gets sucked up
against water intake. Water is restricted or cut off completely. Engine
overheats and water pump fries. Engine shuts down or is shut down and
plastic bag slips away. After inspecting the water pump, mechanic suggests
that the owner ran the engine without water. Owner suggests to mechanic that
he should have seen that the water pump was on it's last legs when he
inspected it. (Write your own ending to this story)
Jim




Well, I keep reading about "impeller failure," but I dunno about that.
Jim boats on a freshwater lake. Bags, yes, but sand, sandbars, and the
usual crud one finds in coastal waters? Probably not.

This sounds very much like the symptoms I had with a plugged
manifold/riser. The smoke I got came from a rubber coated cable which was
resting on an exhaust elbow that overheated. I didn't have to use the fire
extinguisher though.

New manifolds and risers and exhaust parts made it run like new. Luckily, I
had no water get into the exhaust, but if a manifold gasket went bad, that
could also be a problem. When the engine is running, normally, I can place
my hand on a riser for a few seconds. When it was plugged, a slight touch
burned like hell!

--
John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

A bad day on the boat
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
Jim wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
JimH wrote:
1997 43.L Chevy 350 6 cylinder. Freshwater. Manifolds and risers are
original.

Tuned up just weeks ago with only 4.2 hours on the engine following the
tune-up.

Thermostat was replaced in spring.


I wonder if your tune-up guys pooched something and didn't tell you.
Not likely. More likely a scenario like this: Plastic bag gets sucked up
against water intake. Water is restricted or cut off completely. Engine
overheats and water pump fries. Engine shuts down or is shut down and
plastic bag slips away. After inspecting the water pump, mechanic
suggests that the owner ran the engine without water. Owner suggests to
mechanic that he should have seen that the water pump was on it's last
legs when he inspected it. (Write your own ending to this story)
Jim


Well, I keep reading about "impeller failure," but I dunno about that. Jim
boats on a freshwater lake. Bags, yes, but sand, sandbars, and the usual
crud one finds in coastal waters? Probably not.


We often take the boat off a beach and often kick up sand when moving over a
sand bar.

These folks taking care of my boat are pretty reputable. I am prepared
for, although I think it is unlikely, for the worst case scenario of an
engine rebuild and new risers, possibly being without the boat for a few
weeks.

A bad day on the boat
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
Jim wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
JimH wrote:
1997 43.L Chevy 350 6 cylinder. Freshwater. Manifolds and risers are
original.

Tuned up just weeks ago with only 4.2 hours on the engine following the
tune-up.

Thermostat was replaced in spring.


I wonder if your tune-up guys pooched something and didn't tell you.
Not likely. More likely a scenario like this: Plastic bag gets sucked up
against water intake. Water is restricted or cut off completely. Engine
overheats and water pump fries. Engine shuts down or is shut down and
plastic bag slips away. After inspecting the water pump, mechanic
suggests that the owner ran the engine without water. Owner suggests to
mechanic that he should have seen that the water pump was on it's last
legs when he inspected it. (Write your own ending to this story)
Jim


Well, I keep reading about "impeller failure," but I dunno about that. Jim
boats on a freshwater lake. Bags, yes, but sand, sandbars, and the usual
crud one finds in coastal waters? Probably not.

Could have been a loose belt; but Jim would have found that.
Could have been a plugged manifold or riser but overheating would not have
been sudden. Also manifolds and risers run in fresh water tend to last a lot
longer.

What do you think might have been pooched and cause a failure 4 hobbs hours
later?
Jim

A bad day on the boat
 

I would consider clogged risers and/or manifolds as a definate
possibility. 97 makes them 9 years old. A rule of thumb is 5 years in
salt and 10 years in fresh but mileage can vary as they way. They all
rust and as they get older the rust and scale started to flake off in
chunks. The chunks clog them. The worst area is the risers because
the water and hot exhaust get mixed there. Sometimes you can clean the
manifolds and replace the risers. I would also check the circulation
pump and the thermostat. It would be easier if the boat is out of
water on muffs cause then you can see the water coming out or not.
That engine is a fairly solid one and should be able to survive some
overheating. Even if it was damaged it is more likely to be repairable
with new head gaskets and possibly resurfacing the heads.


Jim wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
Jim wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
JimH wrote:
1997 43.L Chevy 350 6 cylinder. Freshwater. Manifolds and risers are
original.

Tuned up just weeks ago with only 4.2 hours on the engine following the
tune-up.

Thermostat was replaced in spring.


I wonder if your tune-up guys pooched something and didn't tell you.
Not likely. More likely a scenario like this: Plastic bag gets sucked up
against water intake. Water is restricted or cut off completely. Engine
overheats and water pump fries. Engine shuts down or is shut down and
plastic bag slips away. After inspecting the water pump, mechanic
suggests that the owner ran the engine without water. Owner suggests to
mechanic that he should have seen that the water pump was on it's last
legs when he inspected it. (Write your own ending to this story)
Jim


Well, I keep reading about "impeller failure," but I dunno about that. Jim
boats on a freshwater lake. Bags, yes, but sand, sandbars, and the usual
crud one finds in coastal waters? Probably not.

Could have been a loose belt; but Jim would have found that.
Could have been a plugged manifold or riser but overheating would not have
been sudden. Also manifolds and risers run in fresh water tend to last a lot
longer.

What do you think might have been pooched and cause a failure 4 hobbs hours
later?
Jim

A bad day on the boat
 

Btw, if you have a 4.3, v6 it is not a 350. A 350 is a v8 and is a
5.7. The v6 is very similar to the v8 except it is two less cylinders.
Two banks of 3 instead of two banks of 4. A lot of the bolt patterns
on the front and back of both are identical. Thus they are somewhat
interchangable. The v6 makes an excellent marine engine as it is
lighter than the v8s but still produces a respectable horse power. And
it is just as sturdy as the v8s which are known for their ability to
tolerate some abuse and neglect.

jamesgangnc wrote:
I would consider clogged risers and/or manifolds as a definate
possibility. 97 makes them 9 years old. A rule of thumb is 5 years in
salt and 10 years in fresh but mileage can vary as they way. They all
rust and as they get older the rust and scale started to flake off in
chunks. The chunks clog them. The worst area is the risers because
the water and hot exhaust get mixed there. Sometimes you can clean the
manifolds and replace the risers. I would also check the circulation
pump and the thermostat. It would be easier if the boat is out of
water on muffs cause then you can see the water coming out or not.
That engine is a fairly solid one and should be able to survive some
overheating. Even if it was damaged it is more likely to be repairable
with new head gaskets and possibly resurfacing the heads.


Jim wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
Jim wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
JimH wrote:
1997 43.L Chevy 350 6 cylinder. Freshwater. Manifolds and risers are
original.

Tuned up just weeks ago with only 4.2 hours on the engine following the
tune-up.

Thermostat was replaced in spring.


I wonder if your tune-up guys pooched something and didn't tell you.
Not likely. More likely a scenario like this: Plastic bag gets sucked up
against water intake. Water is restricted or cut off completely. Engine
overheats and water pump fries. Engine shuts down or is shut down and
plastic bag slips away. After inspecting the water pump, mechanic
suggests that the owner ran the engine without water. Owner suggests to
mechanic that he should have seen that the water pump was on it's last
legs when he inspected it. (Write your own ending to this story)
Jim


Well, I keep reading about "impeller failure," but I dunno about that. Jim
boats on a freshwater lake. Bags, yes, but sand, sandbars, and the usual
crud one finds in coastal waters? Probably not.

Could have been a loose belt; but Jim would have found that.
Could have been a plugged manifold or riser but overheating would not have
been sudden. Also manifolds and risers run in fresh water tend to last a lot
longer.

What do you think might have been pooched and cause a failure 4 hobbs hours
later?
Jim

A bad day on the boat
 

Yep, I know that. Should have said 350 block, which it is, with 2 cylinders
left out during it's casting. ;-)


"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
oups.com...
Btw, if you have a 4.3, v6 it is not a 350. A 350 is a v8 and is a
5.7. The v6 is very similar to the v8 except it is two less cylinders.
Two banks of 3 instead of two banks of 4. A lot of the bolt patterns
on the front and back of both are identical. Thus they are somewhat
interchangable. The v6 makes an excellent marine engine as it is
lighter than the v8s but still produces a respectable horse power. And
it is just as sturdy as the v8s which are known for their ability to
tolerate some abuse and neglect.

jamesgangnc wrote:
I would consider clogged risers and/or manifolds as a definate
possibility. 97 makes them 9 years old. A rule of thumb is 5 years in
salt and 10 years in fresh but mileage can vary as they way. They all
rust and as they get older the rust and scale started to flake off in
chunks. The chunks clog them. The worst area is the risers because
the water and hot exhaust get mixed there. Sometimes you can clean the
manifolds and replace the risers. I would also check the circulation
pump and the thermostat. It would be easier if the boat is out of
water on muffs cause then you can see the water coming out or not.
That engine is a fairly solid one and should be able to survive some
overheating. Even if it was damaged it is more likely to be repairable
with new head gaskets and possibly resurfacing the heads.


Jim wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
Jim wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
JimH wrote:
1997 43.L Chevy 350 6 cylinder. Freshwater. Manifolds and risers
are
original.

Tuned up just weeks ago with only 4.2 hours on the engine
following the
tune-up.

Thermostat was replaced in spring.


I wonder if your tune-up guys pooched something and didn't tell
you.
Not likely. More likely a scenario like this: Plastic bag gets
sucked up
against water intake. Water is restricted or cut off completely.
Engine
overheats and water pump fries. Engine shuts down or is shut down
and
plastic bag slips away. After inspecting the water pump, mechanic
suggests that the owner ran the engine without water. Owner suggests
to
mechanic that he should have seen that the water pump was on it's
last
legs when he inspected it. (Write your own ending to this story)
Jim


Well, I keep reading about "impeller failure," but I dunno about
that. Jim
boats on a freshwater lake. Bags, yes, but sand, sandbars, and the
usual
crud one finds in coastal waters? Probably not.

Could have been a loose belt; but Jim would have found that.
Could have been a plugged manifold or riser but overheating would not
have
been sudden. Also manifolds and risers run in fresh water tend to last
a lot
longer.

What do you think might have been pooched and cause a failure 4 hobbs
hours
later?
Jim

A bad day on the boat
 

" JimH" jimhUNDERSCOREosudad@yahooDOTcom wrote in message
. ..

" JimH" jimhUNDERSCOREosudad@yahooDOTcom wrote in message
. ..

" JimH" jimhUNDERSCOREosudad@yahooDOTcom wrote in message
. ..
Cut out of work at noon and scrambled to the boat to hook up with
friends of ours, meeting them at the mouth of the Vermilion River with
both our boats. We arrived first and once safely past the breakwall
idled while waiting for them. That trip was perhaps 15 minutes tops.

I started to smell something burning and saw puffs of smoke coming out
of the engine compartment. I shut down the engine and grabbed a fire
extinguisher while my wife threw out the anchor, then opened the engine
compartment to see smoke coming off the engine and to hear hissing and
popping. Gave it a shot from the ABC dry chemical fire extinguisher
thinking there may be a fire. Saw the temperature gauge pegged at 250F.

Radioed our friends who towed us back to our marina. The marina
mechanic checked to see if there was any foaming or burnt smell with the
engine oil (none) or oil in the bilge (none). Sigh, maybe a good sign,
or at least I hope so.

We ended up leaving the boat with our mechanic and spent the day on our
friends boat. After 3 or so hours I got a call from the marina, telling
me they checked out the engine (after letting it cool) and judge it to
be OK, although the impeller needs replacing. They said I could safely
move the boat to my slip if I wanted to until repairs are made.

We got back to the marina later today and I took the boat from the gas
dock to our slip, with the temperature rising to 220F during that short
trip from the gas dock to our slip (5 minutes). The boat also ran very
rough during that short trip

So.......besides replacing the impellor any other suggestions on what I
should ask the marina to do? What is causing the rough engine,
especially after having a tune up only 4 engine hours ago? Is there
some internal damage I may have done?

Single 1997 Volvo Penta 4.3L, Chevy 190 HP.

TIA for your answers.

BTW: My vacation started this afternoon (one week of it) and this was
the last thing I expected to have to deal with.


edit


Thanks all for the advice and encouragement so far. I will let you know
the outcome.
What a bummer! One thing you might want to check is the
water/steering tube from the bottom of the lower unit up
to the pump. Have them back-flush that--they can clog.
Can be back-flushed from the pump intake side. Then there is the exhaust
risers on the "out" side that can clog. However,
if it isn't a water flow problem, you could have as someone posted, a bad
head gasket etc, or like a friend of mine, a burned piston because somebody
dropped a screw into
the intake manifold and it ended up on the top of a piston and melted it.
Hope it's something simple! Dan