Hi,
When we bought our house, it came with an Old Town canoe in the backyard.
We were told by our then tenants that it was owned by a previous tenant and
he was planning to come back for it. It's been 4.5 years and it's still
here and we've occasionally taken it out for small jaunts on the local
waterways (we're in the Finger Lakes region of NY). Last winter during a
wind storm, it was lifted up and whacked against a spruce tree which cracked
it midway on the left side, from the top of the gunwale to about 12-16." No
pieces of the hull are missing, though the plastic covering the top of the
gunwale wall is broken and missing sections.

We are pondering on whether it's worth repairing and how hard it would be to
fix it. We are not sure what kind of material it's made of. I went on Old
Town website but couldn't match it up to any of the current models (no
surprise). It's serial number is gone and so is any other name, except for
the "Old Town" label on the sides. Looking at the cross section of the
break, it looks like a layer of plastic, a layer of stiff foam and another
layer of plastic. This canoe is light blue on the outside, beige/putty
colored on the inside. It's pretty generic in shape and style. While we are
fixing it, we would also want to replace the plastic that covers up the top
of the gunwale walls.

We already have a different canoe that my husband & son use for fishing (an
aluminum square back Sports Pal). The Sports Pal is a nice canoe x boat
(it's sort of a hybrid) but since it's aluminum we're hesitant to take it in
rocky situations. The thought is that if we fix the Old Town for a
reasonable price, it could be used for times when we might liked to go down
a local creek.

So is an old Old Town canoe worth fixing? Is there a point where a crack is
too severe to be safely fixed? Any idea of what kind of Old Town canoe it is
in terms of materials? My digital camera charger is MIA but when I find it
I can put up some photos if that would help. And if we do fix it, would it
be ethical to claim it as our own? And if we decide it's too difficult for
us to fix, should we scrap it or donate it? And if we donated it - who to?
Are their any liability issues with donating a cracked canoe?

Chris in lovely Ithaca NY

"chris jung" wrote in message
news
Hi,
When we bought our house, it came with an Old Town canoe in the backyard.
We were told by our then tenants that it was owned by a previous tenant
and he was planning to come back for it. It's been 4.5 years and it's
still here and we've occasionally taken it out for small jaunts on the
local waterways (we're in the Finger Lakes region of NY). Last winter
during a wind storm, it was lifted up and whacked against a spruce tree
which cracked it midway on the left side, from the top of the gunwale to
about 12-16." No pieces of the hull are missing, though the plastic
covering the top of the gunwale wall is broken and missing sections.

We are pondering on whether it's worth repairing and how hard it would be
to fix it. We are not sure what kind of material it's made of. I went on
Old Town website but couldn't match it up to any of the current models (no
surprise). It's serial number is gone and so is any other name, except for
the "Old Town" label on the sides. Looking at the cross section of the
break, it looks like a layer of plastic, a layer of stiff foam and another
layer of plastic. This canoe is light blue on the outside, beige/putty
colored on the inside. It's pretty generic in shape and style. While we
are fixing it, we would also want to replace the plastic that covers up
the top of the gunwale walls.

We already have a different canoe that my husband & son use for fishing
(an aluminum square back Sports Pal). The Sports Pal is a nice canoe x
boat (it's sort of a hybrid) but since it's aluminum we're hesitant to
take it in rocky situations. The thought is that if we fix the Old Town
for a reasonable price, it could be used for times when we might liked to
go down a local creek.

So is an old Old Town canoe worth fixing? Is there a point where a crack
is too severe to be safely fixed? Any idea of what kind of Old Town canoe
it is in terms of materials? My digital camera charger is MIA but when I
find it I can put up some photos if that would help. And if we do fix it,
would it be ethical to claim it as our own? And if we decide it's too
difficult for us to fix, should we scrap it or donate it? And if we
donated it - who to? Are their any liability issues with donating a
cracked canoe?

Chris in lovely Ithaca NY


Definately post some pictures of it when your camera is fixed, but
generally, Old Town boats are far superior to Sports Pal boats. Your boat is
most likely a Tripper, which is a well respected and well known boat. It
could, however, be a Discovery, a Kennebec or any of several other
types...there's no telling from what you have posted. If you can measure the
length of it in a straight line from tip to tip, that would help.

However, the material it is made of is 'ABS', which is very durable and
flexible. It consists of a 1/2 inch thick foam core (stiff cream-colored
foam, as you described), sandwiched in a layer or layers of plastic sheath.
As long as the outer plastic coating is not too badly damaged, the core and
inner sheath is almost indestructable. The only thing that really weakens it
is UV rays...like if it were laying out in the sun for several years and had
some damages to the exterior coating.

The damage you describe sounds like what happens when you whack a frozen
canoe with a spruce tree. It sounds like the boat just cracked. If thats the
case, you can just fiberglass over the split; a thin layer on the inside and
another on the outside. If the tear does not go below waterline, then you
might consider just getting some sealant/glue and basically glueing the tear
shut. However, in any case you WILL need to replace the gunnels, as the hull
strength is a bit compromised so you need a sturdy gunnel to hold it in
shape. Its best to have someone look at it in person to assess the damage
and if it needs repair. Posted pictures would help here.

You can get replacement parts via Old Town Canoe in Old Town, Maine. They
will sell gunnels, seats, thwarts, and end plates, however almost any canoe
shop can get you seats and thwarts, and any reasonable handyman could put on
wooden gunnels. But the real problem is that new OT canoes cost in excess of
$1000, so if you just took possession of this, the owner might charge you
with theft. Its best to find out the laws in your region about abandoned
property: I'm pretty sure that merely claiming it for yourself is
insufficient, and you'll have to make some effort to find the owner, etc.
You probably aren't responsible for the damage to it, but the original owner
could take possession and you may or may not get reimbursed for the repairs.

--riverman

Well, Myron, I think you meant to type "[i]t consists of a 1/4 inch
thick foam core", not "1/2 inch thick".

Otherwise, as always, wise and useful insights!


-Richard, His Kanubic Travesty
--

================================================== ====================
Richard Hopley Winston-Salem, NC, USA
rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net
Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll
rhopley[at]wfubmc[dot]edu
OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters
================================================== ====================

"Oci-One Kanubi" wrote in message
ps.com...
Well, Myron, I think you meant to type "[i]t consists of a 1/4 inch
thick foam core", not "1/2 inch thick".

Otherwise, as always, wise and useful insights!



Dang, I've been out of the states so long that I've gone completely metric.

--riverman

riverman wrote:
"Oci-One Kanubi" wrote in message
ps.com...
Well, Myron, I think you meant to type "[i]t consists of a 1/4 inch
thick foam core", not "1/2 inch thick".

Otherwise, as always, wise and useful insights!



Dang, I've been out of the states so long that I've gone completely metric.

--riverman

So when you catch one of those monster 30" fish, are we to understand
you really mean "cm." ! Your old friend TnT

That is if it isn't cross-link III, which doesn't take fiberglass as well.

Brad


"riverman" wrote in message ...

"chris jung" wrote in message
news
Hi,
When we bought our house, it came with an Old Town canoe in the backyard.
We were told by our then tenants that it was owned by a previous tenant
and he was planning to come back for it. It's been 4.5 years and it's
still here and we've occasionally taken it out for small jaunts on the
local waterways (we're in the Finger Lakes region of NY). Last winter
during a wind storm, it was lifted up and whacked against a spruce tree
which cracked it midway on the left side, from the top of the gunwale to
about 12-16." No pieces of the hull are missing, though the plastic
covering the top of the gunwale wall is broken and missing sections.

We are pondering on whether it's worth repairing and how hard it would be
to fix it. We are not sure what kind of material it's made of. I went
on Old Town website but couldn't match it up to any of the current models
(no surprise). It's serial number is gone and so is any other name,
except for the "Old Town" label on the sides. Looking at the cross
section of the break, it looks like a layer of plastic, a layer of stiff
foam and another layer of plastic. This canoe is light blue on the
outside, beige/putty colored on the inside. It's pretty generic in shape
and style. While we are fixing it, we would also want to replace the
plastic that covers up the top of the gunwale walls.

We already have a different canoe that my husband & son use for fishing
(an aluminum square back Sports Pal). The Sports Pal is a nice canoe x
boat (it's sort of a hybrid) but since it's aluminum we're hesitant to
take it in rocky situations. The thought is that if we fix the Old Town
for a reasonable price, it could be used for times when we might liked to
go down a local creek.

So is an old Old Town canoe worth fixing? Is there a point where a crack
is too severe to be safely fixed? Any idea of what kind of Old Town canoe
it is in terms of materials? My digital camera charger is MIA but when
I find it I can put up some photos if that would help. And if we do fix
it, would it be ethical to claim it as our own? And if we decide it's too
difficult for us to fix, should we scrap it or donate it? And if we
donated it - who to? Are their any liability issues with donating a
cracked canoe?

Chris in lovely Ithaca NY


Definately post some pictures of it when your camera is fixed, but
generally, Old Town boats are far superior to Sports Pal boats. Your boat
is most likely a Tripper, which is a well respected and well known boat.
It could, however, be a Discovery, a Kennebec or any of several other
types...there's no telling from what you have posted. If you can measure
the length of it in a straight line from tip to tip, that would help.

However, the material it is made of is 'ABS', which is very durable and
flexible. It consists of a 1/2 inch thick foam core (stiff cream-colored
foam, as you described), sandwiched in a layer or layers of plastic
sheath. As long as the outer plastic coating is not too badly damaged, the
core and inner sheath is almost indestructable. The only thing that really
weakens it is UV rays...like if it were laying out in the sun for several
years and had some damages to the exterior coating.

The damage you describe sounds like what happens when you whack a frozen
canoe with a spruce tree. It sounds like the boat just cracked. If thats
the case, you can just fiberglass over the split; a thin layer on the
inside and another on the outside. If the tear does not go below
waterline, then you might consider just getting some sealant/glue and
basically glueing the tear shut. However, in any case you WILL need to
replace the gunnels, as the hull strength is a bit compromised so you need
a sturdy gunnel to hold it in shape. Its best to have someone look at it
in person to assess the damage and if it needs repair. Posted pictures
would help here.

You can get replacement parts via Old Town Canoe in Old Town, Maine. They
will sell gunnels, seats, thwarts, and end plates, however almost any
canoe shop can get you seats and thwarts, and any reasonable handyman
could put on wooden gunnels. But the real problem is that new OT canoes
cost in excess of $1000, so if you just took possession of this, the owner
might charge you with theft. Its best to find out the laws in your region
about abandoned property: I'm pretty sure that merely claiming it for
yourself is insufficient, and you'll have to make some effort to find the
owner, etc. You probably aren't responsible for the damage to it, but the
original owner could take possession and you may or may not get reimbursed
for the repairs.

--riverman

Ahh, right. I think I've heard that you can repair Crosslink if you
heat it up with a torch first and apply the glass to the hot surface,
as the heat breaks enough of the bonds and allows the fiberglass to
chemically bond to the surface. Has anyone else heard of this? Mike?
--riverman

IIRC, the problem with this is, like welding aluminum, the CL3 plastic has a
narrow heat reaction threshold: not enough heat and nothing happens; a bit
too much and you have cheeseburger runoff.
But aluminum is welded all the time now, with retail equipment that lets
amateurs weld pop cans together, so I'm sure there is a way. I'd be
inclined to borrow my neighbor's CL3 boat to experiment on first.


"riverman" wrote in message
oups.com...
Ahh, right. I think I've heard that you can repair Crosslink if you
heat it up with a torch first and apply the glass to the hot surface,
as the heat breaks enough of the bonds and allows the fiberglass to
chemically bond to the surface. Has anyone else heard of this? Mike?
--riverman

chris jung wrote:

Hi,
When we bought our house, it came with an Old Town canoe in the backyard.
We were told by our then tenants that it was owned by a previous tenant and
he was planning to come back for it. It's been 4.5 years and it's still
here and we've occasionally taken it out for small jaunts on the local
waterways (we're in the Finger Lakes region of NY). Last winter during a
wind storm, it was lifted up and whacked against a spruce tree which cracked
it midway on the left side, from the top of the gunwale to about 12-16." No
pieces of the hull are missing, though the plastic covering the top of the
gunwale wall is broken and missing sections.

We are pondering on whether it's worth repairing and how hard it would be to
fix it. We are not sure what kind of material it's made of. I went on Old
Town website but couldn't match it up to any of the current models (no
surprise). It's serial number is gone and so is any other name, except for
the "Old Town" label on the sides. Looking at the cross section of the
break, it looks like a layer of plastic, a layer of stiff foam and another
layer of plastic. This canoe is light blue on the outside, beige/putty
colored on the inside.

This is Old Town's common sandwich molded construction, used in several
models. The color scheme matches a similar common canoe that I have, an
Old Town Discovery. It could be any of several others, such as the
Tripper, as Riverman said.

http://www.oldtowncanoe.com/canoes/product_list.html

Old Town usually places the model name on the outside of the bow,
usually on the one or both sides, just below the gunwale. They use
adhesive letter decals. Look closely; if the decals are missing, there
may still be enough traces of adhesive to read the name.

It's pretty generic in shape and style. While we are
fixing it, we would also want to replace the plastic that covers up the top
of the gunwale walls.

We already have a different canoe that my husband & son use for fishing (an
aluminum square back Sports Pal). The Sports Pal is a nice canoe x boat
(it's sort of a hybrid) but since it's aluminum we're hesitant to take it in
rocky situations. The thought is that if we fix the Old Town for a
reasonable price, it could be used for times when we might liked to go down
a local creek.

So is an old Old Town canoe worth fixing? Is there a point where a crack is
too severe to be safely fixed?

Based on your description, this boat is almost certainly worth fixing.
However, the hull is probably significantly weakened, so you should
probably avoid a lot of rock bashing. Try it out on your "local creek";
I expect that it will not fail catastrophically in a place described as
mildly as that. ;-)

Any idea of what kind of Old Town canoe it is
in terms of materials?

Old Town has several different sandwich formulations. They have changed
the hull material at least once in the Discovery line. My 1999 catalog
says that Discovery's were "Crosslink3", polyethylene based, that year.
This could easily be a Royalex boat too, like Riverman said.

The bad thing about polyethylene is that repair adhesives *really* don't
like to stick to it. You really want a solid gunwale to back up the
repair of the type of vertical crack that you described.

My digital camera charger is MIA but when I find it
I can put up some photos if that would help. And if we do fix it, would it
be ethical to claim it as our own?

After 4.5 years? Did you sign a contract agreeing to store the boat
rent-free indefinitely? I didn't think so. It's probably yours, but
inquire locally about abandoned property laws. At least fix it and get
some fun out of it. In the unlikely event that the original owner comes
around later, at least charge them for all of your repair expenses. I
bet a court would back you up at least that far.

--Dave
"Please reply to the newsgroup!"

And if we decide it's too difficult for
us to fix, should we scrap it or donate it? And if we donated it - who to?
Are their any liability issues with donating a cracked canoe?

Chris in lovely Ithaca NY

chris jung wrote:

Hi,
When we bought our house, it came with an Old Town canoe in the backyard.
We were told by our then tenants that it was owned by a previous tenant and
he was planning to come back for it. It's been 4.5 years and it's still
here and we've occasionally taken it out for small jaunts on the local
waterways (we're in the Finger Lakes region of NY). Last winter during a
wind storm, it was lifted up and whacked against a spruce tree which cracked
it midway on the left side, from the top of the gunwale to about 12-16." No
pieces of the hull are missing, though the plastic covering the top of the
gunwale wall is broken and missing sections.

We are pondering on whether it's worth repairing and how hard it would be to
fix it. We are not sure what kind of material it's made of. I went on Old
Town website but couldn't match it up to any of the current models (no
surprise). It's serial number is gone and so is any other name, except for
the "Old Town" label on the sides. Looking at the cross section of the
break, it looks like a layer of plastic, a layer of stiff foam and another
layer of plastic. This canoe is light blue on the outside, beige/putty
colored on the inside.

This is Old Town's common sandwich molded construction, used in several
models. The color scheme matches a similar common canoe that I have, an
Old Town Discovery. It could be any of several others, such as the
Tripper, as Riverman said.

http://www.oldtowncanoe.com/canoes/product_list.html

Old Town usually places the model name on the outside of the bow,
usually on the one or both sides, just below the gunwale. They use
adhesive letter decals. Look closely; if the decals are missing, there
may still be enough traces of adhesive to read the name.

It's pretty generic in shape and style. While we are
fixing it, we would also want to replace the plastic that covers up the top
of the gunwale walls.

We already have a different canoe that my husband & son use for fishing (an
aluminum square back Sports Pal). The Sports Pal is a nice canoe x boat
(it's sort of a hybrid) but since it's aluminum we're hesitant to take it in
rocky situations. The thought is that if we fix the Old Town for a
reasonable price, it could be used for times when we might liked to go down
a local creek.

So is an old Old Town canoe worth fixing? Is there a point where a crack is
too severe to be safely fixed?

Based on your description, this boat is almost certainly worth fixing.
However, the hull is probably significantly weakened, so you should
probably avoid a lot of rock bashing. Try it out on your "local creek";
I expect that it will not fail catastrophically in a place described as
mildly as that. ;-)

Any idea of what kind of Old Town canoe it is
in terms of materials?

Old Town has several different sandwich formulations. They have changed
the hull material at least once in the Discovery line. My 1999 catalog
says that Discovery's were "Crosslink3", polyethylene based, that year.
This could easily be a Royalex boat too, like Riverman said.

The bad thing about polyethylene is that repair adhesives *really* don't
like to stick to it. You really want a solid gunwale to back up the
repair of the type of vertical crack that you described.

My digital camera charger is MIA but when I find it
I can put up some photos if that would help. And if we do fix it, would it
be ethical to claim it as our own?

After 4.5 years? Did you sign a contract agreeing to store the boat
rent-free indefinitely? I didn't think so. It's probably yours, but
inquire locally about abandoned property laws. At least fix it and get
some fun out of it. In the unlikely event that the original owner comes
around later, at least charge them for all of your repair expenses. I
bet a court would back you up at least that far.

--Dave
"Please reply to the newsgroup!"

And if we decide it's too difficult for
us to fix, should we scrap it or donate it? And if we donated it - who to?
Are their any liability issues with donating a cracked canoe?

Chris in lovely Ithaca NY