Big Boat Business Has Been Brisk
 

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On 2 May 2006 11:21:16 -0700, "
wrote:


JohnH wrote:


Could the poor be getting poorer because they don't want to work? Hell,
we've got 10-15 million (depending on who is talking) illegal aliens who
came here and found jobs. If they *are* the poor you refer to, then it's
their own damn fault, and their poverty is certainly skewing the
statistic.
--
'Til next time,

John H
******************************************

Did you know that most poor people do work? In some cases, much longer
and harder everyday than people who are well off. There is no direct
correlation between the amount of work one is willing to do and the
amount of money they can expect to make. Motel maids,
landscape laborers, food service workers, agricultural laborers, and
(increasingly) construction laborers are very hard working people who
cannot earn a living wage in a typical 8-9 hour shift.

Yes, they are competing with a lot of illegal immigrants. It's sad to
see how the politicos of both parties want to deal with that problem:
Catch the illegals after they've done some work and then deport them
back to Mexico. Where is the will to deport the darned employers who
pay less than minimum wage, and who pay under the table to avoid
contributing to the tax base that supports the social services people
not earning enough to buy food and shelter are going to need? The
employers who are given phony documents and don't find out from Social
Security for 5-6 months that Jose Rodriguez is not legally entitled to
work in this country may have some defense, but the guy who hands out 3
ten-dollar bills to a day laborer at the end of a shift and keeps no
other records has no excuse whatsoever.

Well, you made my point. If most of the folks you mention above are
immigrants (legal or not), then surely the *illegal* ones are increasing
supply and, therefore, the price goes down.

You seem to understand the consequences of the illegal immigrant problem.
You also seem to be one of the few liberals who does.

Given the enormous influx of illegal immigrants, and their addition to the
rolls of 'the poor', how can Bush be blamed for the 'poor getting poorer'?

This seems to be another reason to get rid of political arguments.
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

We actually have a guest worker program now. Just applies to high tech and
does keep the salaries down. H-1 visa program. But since we are going to
have guest workers because of the economics and because a lot of Mercan's
will not pick produce, and can collect welfare that allows them to live
fairly well without hard work, we might as well institute a guest worker
program for the labor class. Enforce the law so that an illegal here giving
birth does not have an American Citizen. No where in our laws does it say
that you are automatically a citizen by birth.

Big Boat Business Has Been Brisk
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Calif Bill wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
JohnH wrote:
On Tue, 02 May 2006 19:17:35 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

wrote:

"JimH" wrote in message
oups.com...
If there is a will there is a way. It depends on how motivated the
person is to succeed in life.

Excuses are easy.

Person A works a 40 hour week and makes 50k a year.
Person B works a 90 hour week and makes 25k a year.

Would you theorize that it's easier, or harder for person B to go to
college?
If person B is an illegal immigrant, then he shouldn't be whining. If
he is
a legal immigrant, then he should be whining about all the cheap labor
coming over the border, not marching in the streets under a Mexican
flag.

If Person B is an illegal, he's here working because some sleazy
American employer found a way to exploit cheap labor. Person B's
basically badly paid slaves.

And how do you know this? They are making better wages than a lot of
people. Day laborers in Los Angeles get $10 / hour minimum. Tax free.


Tax free for you, too. You're breaking the law.

I've got to side with Bill on this one, Harry. You hire people who want to
work, which is in NO way connected with their immigration status, which is
nothing but a label. If you disagree, then you must also believe that
someone who's engaged to be married can **** anyone they want because they
don't have the married label yet.

Big Boat Business Has Been Brisk
 

On Tue, 02 May 2006 15:23:22 -0700, wrote:


My point is that for those at the top things are great and getting better,
but for those at the bottom things are not so great and prospects aren't
very bright, either. The number of folks in the "middle" is not increasing
as fast as the numbers on the extreme ends.

I've been following this thread with some amusement. Has anyone here
thought about what would happen to this country without immigration, both
legal and illegal? This economy would collapse. As with most developed
countries, we depend on immigration for a growing economy. It's all about
birthrates. The natives aren't breeding fast enough to sustain our
population, and, as our population ages, without immigration, this Ponzi
scheme will collapse. We can talk all we want about curbing illegal
immigration, but it ain't going to happen. We'll just make them legal.

Big Boat Business Has Been Brisk
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Calif Bill wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
JohnH wrote:
On Tue, 02 May 2006 19:17:35 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

wrote:

"JimH" wrote in message
oups.com...
If there is a will there is a way. It depends on how motivated
the
person is to succeed in life.

Excuses are easy.

Person A works a 40 hour week and makes 50k a year.
Person B works a 90 hour week and makes 25k a year.

Would you theorize that it's easier, or harder for person B to go to
college?
If person B is an illegal immigrant, then he shouldn't be whining. If
he is
a legal immigrant, then he should be whining about all the cheap
labor
coming over the border, not marching in the streets under a Mexican
flag.
If Person B is an illegal, he's here working because some sleazy
American employer found a way to exploit cheap labor. Person B's
basically badly paid slaves.
And how do you know this? They are making better wages than a lot of
people. Day laborers in Los Angeles get $10 / hour minimum. Tax free.

Tax free for you, too. You're breaking the law.

I've got to side with Bill on this one, Harry. You hire people who want
to work, which is in NO way connected with their immigration status,
which is nothing but a label. If you disagree, then you must also believe
that someone who's engaged to be married can **** anyone they want
because they don't have the married label yet.

Which has nothing to do with the fact that Bill is paying his casual labor
without withholding taxes from their pay or paying taxes on their behalf.
Illegal.


Which has nothing to do with this discussion.

Big Boat Business Has Been Brisk
 

On Wed, 03 May 2006 02:14:12 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 02 May 2006 19:17:35 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

wrote:


"JimH" wrote in message
egroups.com...
If there is a will there is a way. It depends on how motivated the
person is to succeed in life.

Excuses are easy.


Person A works a 40 hour week and makes 50k a year.
Person B works a 90 hour week and makes 25k a year.

Would you theorize that it's easier, or harder for person B to go to
college?


If person B is an illegal immigrant, then he shouldn't be whining. If he
is
a legal immigrant, then he should be whining about all the cheap labor
coming over the border, not marching in the streets under a Mexican flag.
John H

I forgot to include an important piece of this puzzle. Person B's spouse
works almost as many hours, so the kids are in day care a lot. Unless you
want your kids in a **** hole of a day care center, do you have any idea
what it costs?


You mean to tell me that person B, (legal or illegal), has no education, is
working 90 hours/week, making $5.55 hr, is producing babies on top of it?

Am I supposed to feel sorry for stupidity?

Did person B work Monday, or was he out marching to get more illegals into
the country?
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

Big Boat Business Has Been Brisk
 

On Wed, 03 May 2006 03:04:56 GMT, bb wrote:

On Tue, 02 May 2006 13:02:01 -0400, JohnH wrote:

Could the poor be getting poorer because they don't want to work?

I realize that demonizing the enemy; in this case, the working poor,
is a tried and true tactic that works in most cases. Lets give some
of them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they are not lazy
slobs who aren't willing to work.

Hell,
we've got 10-15 million (depending on who is talking) illegal aliens who
came here and found jobs.

And where did they come from? What are the working conditions, pay
scale, and health care issues in the countries they came from? Are
you suggesting workers in this country should have to compete on an
equal basis with the worst of the third world working conditions, just
because it happens to be in the best financial interest of large and
very wealthy US businesses? Can you really justify helping those
folks who make millions of dollars a year make even more millions,
when it hurts the working class of this country? Do you realize it's
the middle class that has made this country great, and special, and
the ideal of most of the world? Feeding the greed of the wealthy in
this country is a cause worthy of destroying what has made this
country what it is?


It makes no difference from where they came. They're here illegally!


If they *are* the poor you refer to, then it's
their own damn fault, and their poverty is certainly skewing the statistic.

Yeah, it's their own damned fault they don't have billions of dollars
to funnel into the campaign funds of politicians so they can get
special privileges. It's their own damned fault they can't afford
decent health care because the health care lobbies have been able to
prevent health care reform in order to protect the massive profits.
It's their own damned fault the oil companies have a free hand to
write federal energy policy to protect their profits. It's their own
damned fault the environmental laws have been watered down to the
point of being useless in order to increase the profits of the
corporations. It's their own damned fault the federal reserve has
flooded the market with liquidity to the point of making our currency
almost worthless.


No, it's their own damned fault they left their country to come to what you
obviously consider a ****-hole of a country!

Your 'Jesse Jackson' tirade, above, is more tripe.
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

Big Boat Business Has Been Brisk
 

On Wed, 03 May 2006 07:37:54 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Calif Bill wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
JohnH wrote:
On Tue, 02 May 2006 19:17:35 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

wrote:

"JimH" wrote in message
oups.com...
If there is a will there is a way. It depends on how motivated the
person is to succeed in life.

Excuses are easy.

Person A works a 40 hour week and makes 50k a year.
Person B works a 90 hour week and makes 25k a year.

Would you theorize that it's easier, or harder for person B to go to
college?
If person B is an illegal immigrant, then he shouldn't be whining. If
he is
a legal immigrant, then he should be whining about all the cheap labor
coming over the border, not marching in the streets under a Mexican
flag.
If Person B is an illegal, he's here working because some sleazy
American employer found a way to exploit cheap labor. Person B's
basically badly paid slaves.
And how do you know this? They are making better wages than a lot of
people. Day laborers in Los Angeles get $10 / hour minimum. Tax free.

Tax free for you, too. You're breaking the law.

I've got to side with Bill on this one, Harry. You hire people who want to
work, which is in NO way connected with their immigration status, which is
nothing but a label. If you disagree, then you must also believe that
someone who's engaged to be married can **** anyone they want because they
don't have the married label yet.



Which has nothing to do with the fact that Bill is paying his casual
labor without withholding taxes from their pay or paying taxes on their
behalf. Illegal.

You better go check out the rules on the circumstances under which taxes
must be withheld, along with Social Security, etc.

Are you suggesting I've got to do all that for the kid down the block when
he mows my grass?

--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

Big Boat Business Has Been Brisk
 

On Wed, 03 May 2006 07:23:45 -0400, thunder wrote:

On Tue, 02 May 2006 15:23:22 -0700, wrote:


My point is that for those at the top things are great and getting better,
but for those at the bottom things are not so great and prospects aren't
very bright, either. The number of folks in the "middle" is not increasing
as fast as the numbers on the extreme ends.

I've been following this thread with some amusement. Has anyone here
thought about what would happen to this country without immigration, both
legal and illegal? This economy would collapse. As with most developed
countries, we depend on immigration for a growing economy. It's all about
birthrates. The natives aren't breeding fast enough to sustain our
population, and, as our population ages, without immigration, this Ponzi
scheme will collapse. We can talk all we want about curbing illegal
immigration, but it ain't going to happen. We'll just make them legal.

To combine legal and illegal immigration into the same argument is patently
ridiculous, not worthy of further discussion.
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

Big Boat Business Has Been Brisk
 

"JohnH" wrote in message
...

I forgot to include an important piece of this puzzle. Person B's spouse
works almost as many hours, so the kids are in day care a lot. Unless you
want your kids in a **** hole of a day care center, do you have any idea
what it costs?


You mean to tell me that person B, (legal or illegal), has no education,
is
working 90 hours/week, making $5.55 hr, is producing babies on top of it?

Am I supposed to feel sorry for stupidity?

Did person B work Monday, or was he out marching to get more illegals into
the country?
John H


Ah....the recorded response.

Big Boat Business Has Been Brisk
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"JohnH" wrote in message
...

I forgot to include an important piece of this puzzle. Person B's
spouse
works almost as many hours, so the kids are in day care a lot. Unless
you
want your kids in a **** hole of a day care center, do you have any
idea
what it costs?

You mean to tell me that person B, (legal or illegal), has no education,
is
working 90 hours/week, making $5.55 hr, is producing babies on top of
it?

Am I supposed to feel sorry for stupidity?

Did person B work Monday, or was he out marching to get more illegals
into
the country?
John H


Ah....the recorded response.


There are many people in this country who just have no understanding of or
compassion for the plight of the working poor, and don't want any. It's
always been that way and it always will be. I used to have compassion for
the stupidity of these arrogant, unfeeling nincompoops, but no more.

You know any people like that, Doug? I've known a few, but none are among
my friends or people with whom I would socialize, even informally.





I think John cannot imagine a situation where people might have kids when
they were doing OK financially, but ended up in a lousy position afterward
for any of a number of embarrassingly obvious reasons.