In article ,
says...
Don White wrote:
tillius wrote:
Don White wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

tillius wrote:


So Comrad Harry, either reply intelligently, or I can send you to the
commie killfile.


I don't give a damn what you do. Why should I?

He's desperate for at least one person to pay attention to him.

Well, hardly. You're a bit annoying with your left wing dribble too. I
did notice that, unlike Comrad Harry, you do occasionally post about
boating. That'll probably keep you out of my commie-killfile for a
while, at least.

Till


Power to the People!


Till wouldn't know a commie if one bit him on the butt. He's just
another brain-dead Bert.

The thread seems an obvious butanol troll. How quickly he gathered all
that new info on the ethanol vs. butanol debate.

jps

jps wrote:
In article ,
says...
Don White wrote:
tillius wrote:
Don White wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

tillius wrote:


So Comrad Harry, either reply intelligently, or I can send you to the
commie killfile.


I don't give a damn what you do. Why should I?

He's desperate for at least one person to pay attention to him.

Well, hardly. You're a bit annoying with your left wing dribble too. I
did notice that, unlike Comrad Harry, you do occasionally post about
boating. That'll probably keep you out of my commie-killfile for a
while, at least.

Till


Power to the People!


Till wouldn't know a commie if one bit him on the butt. He's just
another brain-dead Bert.

The thread seems an obvious butanol troll. How quickly he gathered all
that new info on the ethanol vs. butanol debate.

jps

Nope, wasn't a butanol troll. Was a sincere question about what I might
need to do to my engine because of the ethanol issues. Found the
butanol info while I was searching the ethanol problem. Was just
provided FYI until comrad Krause had to interject idiotic remarks into
the thread.

Till

In article .com,
says...

jps wrote:
In article ,
says...
Don White wrote:
tillius wrote:
Don White wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

tillius wrote:


So Comrad Harry, either reply intelligently, or I can send you to the
commie killfile.


I don't give a damn what you do. Why should I?

He's desperate for at least one person to pay attention to him.

Well, hardly. You're a bit annoying with your left wing dribble too. I
did notice that, unlike Comrad Harry, you do occasionally post about
boating. That'll probably keep you out of my commie-killfile for a
while, at least.

Till


Power to the People!


Till wouldn't know a commie if one bit him on the butt. He's just
another brain-dead Bert.

The thread seems an obvious butanol troll. How quickly he gathered all
that new info on the ethanol vs. butanol debate.

jps

Nope, wasn't a butanol troll. Was a sincere question about what I might
need to do to my engine because of the ethanol issues. Found the
butanol info while I was searching the ethanol problem. Was just
provided FYI until comrad Krause had to interject idiotic remarks into
the thread.

Till

You seem mighty convinced about butanol's superiority at a really fast
pace (within hours).

I'm curious if you've visited any websites of the worthy opposition to
butanol to see what, if any, downsides exist...

jps

jps wrote:
In article .com,
says...

jps wrote:
In article ,
says...
Don White wrote:
tillius wrote:
Don White wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

tillius wrote:


So Comrad Harry, either reply intelligently, or I can send you to the
commie killfile.


I don't give a damn what you do. Why should I?

He's desperate for at least one person to pay attention to him.

Well, hardly. You're a bit annoying with your left wing dribble too. I
did notice that, unlike Comrad Harry, you do occasionally post about
boating. That'll probably keep you out of my commie-killfile for a
while, at least.

Till


Power to the People!


Till wouldn't know a commie if one bit him on the butt. He's just
another brain-dead Bert.

The thread seems an obvious butanol troll. How quickly he gathered all
that new info on the ethanol vs. butanol debate.

jps

Nope, wasn't a butanol troll. Was a sincere question about what I might
need to do to my engine because of the ethanol issues. Found the
butanol info while I was searching the ethanol problem. Was just
provided FYI until comrad Krause had to interject idiotic remarks into
the thread.

Till

You seem mighty convinced about butanol's superiority at a really fast
pace (within hours).

I'm curious if you've visited any websites of the worthy opposition to
butanol to see what, if any, downsides exist...

jps

The only downsides I've read about so far are the odor and the
possibility of hard starts in cold weather. I haven't seen any specific
sites in worthy opposition to butanol. My butanol googles returned none
so far.

If you know of additional information, I'd welcome a link.

Till

Also, I've looked for the past week at the effects and up/downsides of
Ethanol vs. Butanol. This thread was one of the last things I did
searching for my answers.

I am still seeking downsides to butanol, but again, aside from the odor
during production and the possible hard starts in cold wheather with a
95 degree flashpoint, and the toxicity (not more toxic than gasoline,
however), the only other con I can find was it's high cost of
production. The new processes using fibrous fermentation beds have
changed the cost of production ($1.05 - $1.25/gallon using corn
feedstock) AND yeilds per bushel of feedstock to the same as ethanol,
only with higher energy yeild per gallon of fuel.

Using a feedstock such as dairy waste from cheese manufacturing reduces
the production cost per gallon of butanol to approximately $0.50 per
gallon.

Again, if you know of links to more downside information on butanol,
please let me know. I'm considering forming a co-op to investigate
butanol production for the personal use of co-op members in my area.

Till

"tillius" wrote in message
oups.com...
Also, I've looked for the past week at the effects and up/downsides of
Ethanol vs. Butanol. This thread was one of the last things I did
searching for my answers.

I am still seeking downsides to butanol, but again, aside from the odor
during production and the possible hard starts in cold wheather with a
95 degree flashpoint, and the toxicity (not more toxic than gasoline,
however), the only other con I can find was it's high cost of
production. The new processes using fibrous fermentation beds have
changed the cost of production ($1.05 - $1.25/gallon using corn
feedstock) AND yeilds per bushel of feedstock to the same as ethanol,
only with higher energy yeild per gallon of fuel.

Using a feedstock such as dairy waste from cheese manufacturing reduces
the production cost per gallon of butanol to approximately $0.50 per
gallon.

Again, if you know of links to more downside information on butanol,
please let me know. I'm considering forming a co-op to investigate
butanol production for the personal use of co-op members in my area.

Till


The downside of ethanol, butanol or any other manufactured from grown crops
fuel, is that there is not going to be enough of the stuff. Would take just
about all our present food grown to provide our present fuel usage.

Calif Bill wrote:
"tillius" wrote in message
oups.com...
Also, I've looked for the past week at the effects and up/downsides of
Ethanol vs. Butanol. This thread was one of the last things I did
searching for my answers.

I am still seeking downsides to butanol, but again, aside from the odor
during production and the possible hard starts in cold wheather with a
95 degree flashpoint, and the toxicity (not more toxic than gasoline,
however), the only other con I can find was it's high cost of
production. The new processes using fibrous fermentation beds have
changed the cost of production ($1.05 - $1.25/gallon using corn
feedstock) AND yeilds per bushel of feedstock to the same as ethanol,
only with higher energy yeild per gallon of fuel.

Using a feedstock such as dairy waste from cheese manufacturing reduces
the production cost per gallon of butanol to approximately $0.50 per
gallon.

Again, if you know of links to more downside information on butanol,
please let me know. I'm considering forming a co-op to investigate
butanol production for the personal use of co-op members in my area.

Till


The downside of ethanol, butanol or any other manufactured from grown crops
fuel, is that there is not going to be enough of the stuff. Would take just
about all our present food grown to provide our present fuel usage.

I understand the quantity of feedstock it would take to supply our
present fuel usage with bio-fuels, however, there are several points
that should be considered:

1. Using these newer fermentation methods, butanol (or ehtanol) can be
produced from waste agri-products, such as rice straw, corn stalks,
sawdust, and the dairy waste from cheese production.

2. Bio-fuels can be produced from crops such as Jatropha (yeilding 200
gallons per acre), Coconut (300 gals/acre), and Palm (600 gals/acre).
All of these crops can be grown in arid regions where the current
agricultural footprint is very small.

3. Over 60% of the US corn crop is low quality Bt corn, which has
hardly any market value and which is usually discarded (at tax payers
expense) into inefficient ethanol production, or dumped into 3rd world
countries as sub-par livestock feed.

4. Over 40% of our farmland is currenly unfarmed. Thanks to well
intentioned governement subsidies that actually pay the farmers not to
produce certain crops, we are wasting a vast portion of our natural
resources.

The feedstock to supply our energy needs with bio-fuel could easily be
produced by putting our agricultural industries back to work, while at
the same time reducing their dependancy upon government subsidies AND
reducing out tax burden.

Till