FYI

Evinrude ETEC 50 / 60hp: The third generation of OMC’s Ram Ficht 2
stroke technology, now built by Bombardier. Excellent fuel economy and
compact size, but heavy and expensive. There have been so many major
problems with the earlier versions of this technology, that we just
aren’t yet ready to ask our customers to risk seven or eight thousand
dollars on an intriguing but not yet proven technology. As of late
2005, almost one third of all Evinrude buyers reported a signIficant
problem with their engine in the first 30 days alone!

"K. Smith" wrote in message
...
. As of late 2005, almost one third of all Evinrude buyers reported a
signIficant problem with their engine in the first 30 days alone!



Not true at all !

Why did you make that up ? I doubt that you could post a credible source for
that info?

Bill Grannis
service manager

K. Smith wrote:
FYI
As of late
2005, almost one third of all Evinrude buyers reported a signIficant
problem with their engine in the first 30 days alone!

Cite?

Don't hold your breath.

Butch
"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

K. Smith wrote:
FYI
As of late
2005, almost one third of all Evinrude buyers reported a signIficant
problem with their engine in the first 30 days alone!

Cite?

Billgran wrote:
"K. Smith" wrote in message
...

. As of late 2005, almost one third of all Evinrude buyers reported a
signIficant problem with their engine in the first 30 days alone!




Not true at all !

Why did you make that up ? I doubt that you could post a credible source for
that info?

Bill Grannis
service manager



"I" didn't! You being an OMC/Ficht now E-Tec dealer have become so used
to saying whatever you want you've lost the plot .............. again.

Here's the link as the heading says it's a paste "from" another forum.

http://www.bwyachts.com/Engine%20Choices.htm

Of course you E-Tec dealers do all you can to hush up the problems as
you did with Ficht, Hey for old time's sake tell us again how you, a
Florida dealer never even saw a failed Ficht:-) Woohoo then when OMC
went feet up in the table drain you ran away!!! what a coward you are
runaway. Now you have the front to come back here & try the exact same
marketing scam with the latest renamed Ficht???

It seems at least some US people are this time prepared to say what
needs to be said & I'll pass it on as & when:-)

Now that's dealt with what say you about the rest of the consumer E-Tec
complaints???

K:-)

K. Smith wrote:


FYI

Evinrude ETEC 50 / 60hp: The third generation of OMC’s Ram Ficht 2
stroke technology, now built by Bombardier. Excellent fuel economy and
compact size, but heavy and expensive. There have been so many major
problems with the earlier versions of this technology, that we just
aren’t yet ready to ask our customers to risk seven or eight thousand
dollars on an intriguing but not yet proven technology. As of late
2005, almost one third of all Evinrude buyers reported a signIficant
problem with their engine in the first 30 days alone!


So now we know where it's from... one freakin' opinion. Puleeease...

Rob

PS FYI:

Thanks to NASA technology, patented high-strength aluminum alloy makes
outboard motors quieter and cleaner
Photo description: Jonathan Lee, a Marshall Center structural materials
engineer, displays a variety of uses for NASA's High-Strength Aluminum
Alloy used for pistons in a line of outboard engines from Bombardier
Recreational Products.

Some boating excursions are now quieter, cleaner and their boat engines
enjoy improved fuel mileage and increased durability — all thanks to a
NASA invention. The Boats and Outboard Engines Division at Bombardier
Recreational Products of Sturtevant, Wis., uses NASA's patented
High-Strength Aluminum Alloy for pistons in its Evinrude® E-TEC™
outboard engine line. The technology was developed at NASA's Marshall
Center.
Photo: Jonathan Lee, a Marshall Center structural materials engineer,
displays NASA's High-Strength Aluminum Alloy. (NASA/MSFC/E. Given)


A NASA invention that can make outboard engines quieter, cleaner, gives
better fuel mileage and increased durability has been adapted for
commercial use by a major international corporation.

The Boats and Outboard Engines Division at Bombardier Recreational
Products (BRP) of Sturtevant, Wis. — has begun using NASA's patented
High-Strength Aluminum Alloy for pistons in its new Evinrude® E-TEC™
outboard engine line.

The alloy, developed at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in
Huntsville, Ala., is used in a new piston design that reduces the
so-called "slapping" sound when pistons slide up and down in the
engine's cylinder. The alloy can greatly improve piston durability
because it is two and half times stronger than conventional cast
aluminum pistons at high temperature and can be produced with a material
cost of less than $1 per pound. It exhibits dramatic strength at
temperatures as high as 500 to 700 degrees Fahrenheit.

Engineers working on BRP's Evinrude E-TEC engine also saw environmental
advantages from the alloy; it would help the new engines comply with
California Air Resources Board emissions standards—some of the most
stringent in the United States.

It was simply a matter of searching the information highway. BRP met
with NASA in April 2002, after seeing an ad on the Internet for a
high-strength aluminum alloy. The prototypes were complete by July, and
the final product was ready in February 2003. "We worked very closely
with NASA to refine the details," said Bob Young, vice president of
product development for BRP. "The demands of the outboard engine are
more significant than any other engine NASA had encountered, even those
in the auto industry. The team from NASA was on the fast-track, learned
all the intricacies and delivered an outstanding product."

Development of the NASA High-Strength Aluminum Alloy began seven years
ago when a major automobile manufacturer approached NASA seeking a
solution to reduce the costs of aluminum engine pistons, as well as to
lower engine emissions. NASA was also interested in developing an alloy
with higher strength and wear-resistance at elevated temperatures, for
aerospace applications. So, in this case "necessity as the mother of
invention" was a motivator from two directions and the Partnership for
Next Generation Vehicles was born.

Jonathan Lee, a structural materials engineer in the Marshall Center 's
Materials, Processes and Manufacturing Department, and co-inventor
PoShou Chen, a scientist with Morgan Research Corp., in Huntsville,
tackled the project. The result was discovery of what would become the
basis for a new aluminum alloy, MSFC-398 or NASA High-Strength Aluminum
Alloy. The NASA Technology Transfer Partnership introduced it during the
2001 National Manufacturing Week show in Chicago.

Evinrude's outboard engine piston is the result of more than a year of
intensive work between the company's piston casting vendor and NASA's
inventors to learn about and refine the process of casting the new alloy.

"Having a proper mixture of the alloy's composition with the correct
heat treatment process are two crucial steps to create this alloy for
high temperature applications," said Lee. "The team at Bombardier
Recreational Products worked hard with the casting vendor and NASA
inventors to perfect the casting of pistons, learn and repeat the
process, and bring its product to market. Chen and I are honored to see
something we invented being used in a commercial product in a very rapid
pace. We still have to pinch ourselves occasionally to realize that
BRP's commercialization effort for this alloy has become a reality. It's
happened so quickly."

"The usual cycle for developing this type of technology, from the
research stage to the development phase, and finally into a commercial
product phase may take several years and more than a $1 million
investment," Lee said. In this case, it has occurred in less than four
years at a fraction of the cost.

The Evinrude E-TEC outboard engine line uses pistons made with the NASA
High-Strength Alloy in its mid-power range of recreational boating in
its current 40-90 horsepower engine offering.

BRP projects it will manufacture several hundred thousand pistons for
outboard motors using the NASA High-Strength Aluminum Alloy over the
next several years.

"The weak link in any two-cycle engine has always been the piston, due
to the high operating temperatures. The strength of this piston is
stronger than anything we ever used or ever seen," said Young. "It's now
at least double the strength of the previous alloys and within our
rigorous testing schedule, we have yet to see an alloy-related piston
failure."

The license agreement between BRP and NASA was signed in July 2003. The
Research Triangle Institute in Raleigh, N.C., a contractor to NASA,
working with Marshall 's Technology Transfer Department, played a key
role in bringing the parties together. The Institute offers research and
development in areas ranging from health and environmental protection,
education and training, economic and social development and advanced
technology.

"This is another outstanding example of NASA's Innovative Technology
Transfer Partnerships program at work with a variety of industries to
move the benefits of aerospace technology to the public and private
sector while supporting NASA's goal of improving life on Earth," said
Sammy Nabors, commercial technology lead in the Marshall Center 's
Technology Transfer Department. Nabors predicts many other uses for the
alloy in the future, as well, as additional commercial licensing agreements.

For more information on the Marshall Center 's Technology Transfer
program, visit:

http://www.nasasolutions.com

For more information about Bombardier Recreational Products visit:

http://www.recreation.bombardier.com

For supporting materials for this news release – such as photographs –
please visit the NASA Marshall Center Newsroom at:

trainfan1 wrote:
K. Smith wrote:


FYI

Evinrude ETEC 50 / 60hp: The third generation of OMC’s Ram Ficht 2
stroke technology, now built by Bombardier. Excellent fuel economy and
compact size, but heavy and expensive. There have been so many major
problems with the earlier versions of this technology, that we just
aren’t yet ready to ask our customers to risk seven or eight thousand
dollars on an intriguing but not yet proven technology. As of late
2005, almost one third of all Evinrude buyers reported a signIficant
problem with their engine in the first 30 days alone!


So now we know where it's from... one freakin' opinion. Puleeease...

Rob

PS FYI:

Thanks to NASA technology, patented high-strength aluminum alloy makes
outboard motors quieter and cleaner
Photo description: Jonathan Lee, a Marshall Center structural materials
engineer, displays a variety of uses for NASA's High-Strength Aluminum
Alloy used for pistons in a line of outboard engines from Bombardier
Recreational Products.

Some boating excursions are now quieter, cleaner and their boat engines
enjoy improved fuel mileage and increased durability — all thanks to a
NASA invention. The Boats and Outboard Engines Division at Bombardier
Recreational Products of Sturtevant, Wis., uses NASA's patented
High-Strength Aluminum Alloy for pistons in its Evinrude® E-TEC™
outboard engine line. The technology was developed at NASA's Marshall
Center.
Photo: Jonathan Lee, a Marshall Center structural materials engineer,
displays NASA's High-Strength Aluminum Alloy. (NASA/MSFC/E. Given)


A NASA invention that can make outboard engines quieter, cleaner, gives
better fuel mileage and increased durability has been adapted for
commercial use by a major international corporation.

The Boats and Outboard Engines Division at Bombardier Recreational
Products (BRP) of Sturtevant, Wis. — has begun using NASA's patented
High-Strength Aluminum Alloy for pistons in its new Evinrude® E-TEC™
outboard engine line.

The alloy, developed at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in
Huntsville, Ala., is used in a new piston design that reduces the
so-called "slapping" sound when pistons slide up and down in the
engine's cylinder. The alloy can greatly improve piston durability
because it is two and half times stronger than conventional cast
aluminum pistons at high temperature and can be produced with a material
cost of less than $1 per pound. It exhibits dramatic strength at
temperatures as high as 500 to 700 degrees Fahrenheit.

Engineers working on BRP's Evinrude E-TEC engine also saw environmental
advantages from the alloy; it would help the new engines comply with
California Air Resources Board emissions standards—some of the most
stringent in the United States.

It was simply a matter of searching the information highway. BRP met
with NASA in April 2002, after seeing an ad on the Internet for a
high-strength aluminum alloy. The prototypes were complete by July, and
the final product was ready in February 2003. "We worked very closely
with NASA to refine the details," said Bob Young, vice president of
product development for BRP. "The demands of the outboard engine are
more significant than any other engine NASA had encountered, even those
in the auto industry. The team from NASA was on the fast-track, learned
all the intricacies and delivered an outstanding product."

Development of the NASA High-Strength Aluminum Alloy began seven years
ago when a major automobile manufacturer approached NASA seeking a
solution to reduce the costs of aluminum engine pistons, as well as to
lower engine emissions. NASA was also interested in developing an alloy
with higher strength and wear-resistance at elevated temperatures, for
aerospace applications. So, in this case "necessity as the mother of
invention" was a motivator from two directions and the Partnership for
Next Generation Vehicles was born.

Jonathan Lee, a structural materials engineer in the Marshall Center 's
Materials, Processes and Manufacturing Department, and co-inventor
PoShou Chen, a scientist with Morgan Research Corp., in Huntsville,
tackled the project. The result was discovery of what would become the
basis for a new aluminum alloy, MSFC-398 or NASA High-Strength Aluminum
Alloy. The NASA Technology Transfer Partnership introduced it during the
2001 National Manufacturing Week show in Chicago.

Evinrude's outboard engine piston is the result of more than a year of
intensive work between the company's piston casting vendor and NASA's
inventors to learn about and refine the process of casting the new alloy.

"Having a proper mixture of the alloy's composition with the correct
heat treatment process are two crucial steps to create this alloy for
high temperature applications," said Lee. "The team at Bombardier
Recreational Products worked hard with the casting vendor and NASA
inventors to perfect the casting of pistons, learn and repeat the
process, and bring its product to market. Chen and I are honored to see
something we invented being used in a commercial product in a very rapid
pace. We still have to pinch ourselves occasionally to realize that
BRP's commercialization effort for this alloy has become a reality. It's
happened so quickly."

"The usual cycle for developing this type of technology, from the
research stage to the development phase, and finally into a commercial
product phase may take several years and more than a $1 million
investment," Lee said. In this case, it has occurred in less than four
years at a fraction of the cost.

The Evinrude E-TEC outboard engine line uses pistons made with the NASA
High-Strength Alloy in its mid-power range of recreational boating in
its current 40-90 horsepower engine offering.

BRP projects it will manufacture several hundred thousand pistons for
outboard motors using the NASA High-Strength Aluminum Alloy over the
next several years.

"The weak link in any two-cycle engine has always been the piston, due
to the high operating temperatures. The strength of this piston is
stronger than anything we ever used or ever seen," said Young. "It's now
at least double the strength of the previous alloys and within our
rigorous testing schedule, we have yet to see an alloy-related piston
failure."

The license agreement between BRP and NASA was signed in July 2003. The
Research Triangle Institute in Raleigh, N.C., a contractor to NASA,
working with Marshall 's Technology Transfer Department, played a key
role in bringing the parties together. The Institute offers research and
development in areas ranging from health and environmental protection,
education and training, economic and social development and advanced
technology.

"This is another outstanding example of NASA's Innovative Technology
Transfer Partnerships program at work with a variety of industries to
move the benefits of aerospace technology to the public and private
sector while supporting NASA's goal of improving life on Earth," said
Sammy Nabors, commercial technology lead in the Marshall Center 's
Technology Transfer Department. Nabors predicts many other uses for the
alloy in the future, as well, as additional commercial licensing
agreements.

For more information on the Marshall Center 's Technology Transfer
program, visit:

http://www.nasasolutions.com

For more information about Bombardier Recreational Products visit:

http://www.recreation.bombardier.com

For supporting materials for this news release – such as photographs –
please visit the NASA Marshall Center Newsroom at:

Why is it that etec needs special rocket science NASA aluminum that is
really really extra strong and tolerates especially high temperatures in
its pistons? Is there something unusual compared to 4 strokes or
optimax? Don't they use normal cast or forged aluminum pistons?



--
Del Cecchi
"This post is my own and doesn’t necessarily represent IBM’s positions,
strategies or opinions.”

Del Cecchi wrote:


Why is it that etec needs special rocket science NASA aluminum that is
really really extra strong and tolerates especially high temperatures in
its pistons?




Some good info about WHY is at this link:

http://www.pacmaterials.com/technology/Technology.htm

Bill Grannis
service manager

"Del Cecchi" wrote
Why is it that etec needs special rocket science NASA aluminum that is
really really extra strong and tolerates especially high temperatures in
its pistons? Don't they use normal cast or forged aluminum pistons?




Del,

Then if there were only 2 types of pistons, cast or forged, then why have 2?
Why make a motor that has to use a forged piston with different clearances,
even though they are stronger, instead of cast pistons which are cheaper to
produce? Just make 1 model, and only use one aluminum alloy for every
conceivable engine made or in design.

This link might give you some more information:

http://www.pacmaterials.com/technology/Technology.htm

Bill Grannis
service manager

Del Cecchi wrote:



Why is it that etec needs special rocket science NASA aluminum that is
really really extra strong and tolerates especially high temperatures in
its pistons? Is there something unusual compared to 4 strokes or
optimax? Don't they use normal cast or forged aluminum pistons?


2 strokes are A LOT about compromises. BRP is going to reduce/eliminate
at least one of the factors... the heat involved in producing top power,
economy, & lower emissions, using new materials that were not available
in 1958.

1958? Well, looking back, the '58 Starflite was huge, heavy, thirsty,
smokey, & cantankerous. OMC rested on their "firsts" for years, never
really getting the V-4, and it's gearcase & carburetion, right until
1969, & then modernized in 1973.

I've got to figure that FICHT & E-TEC motors are MUCH more satisfying to
their owners than those old Starflites. It's amazing how many they sold
even though there were much better choices at Mercury & Scott-McCulloch,
& maybe even West Bend(I can't recall when their inline 4 cylinder
Shark(80hp) came out - I think 1961).

Rob