Hey all,

I was all set to pick up two Old Town Otter Rec. Kayaks, when an
unknown option came into play: A Coleman Ultimate 100. It is $20
cheaper per kayak, but it seems to have a number of features of the
more expensive kayaks (and looks just like a Perception Swifty). It has
a covered hatch and bungee cording on the bow and stern to hold gear
down. I figure this kayak is just a rebranded kayak from a regular
maker, again possibly Perception... Does anyone know? It is 10' and
41lbs. as opposed to the Otter's 9.5ft. which I like too.

Should I stick with the Otter, or go with this new option. I won't be
able to demo it, but I have demoed the Perception Swifty and really
liked it.

These are my final options so bringing up other/better options is out
of the question. But any help on these two is very much appreciated.

Thanks!

I'm sorry, I meant to say Pelican Pursuit 100 DLX I think equals the
Coleman Ultimate 100. We've looked at so many they begin to blur in the
mind. So exactly what I said above but substitute Pelican Pursuit 100
DLX for any mention of Perception Swifty.

wrote in news:1145324596.596123.64600
@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

Hey all,

I was all set to pick up two Old Town Otter Rec. Kayaks, when an
unknown option came into play: A Coleman Ultimate 100. It is $20
cheaper per kayak, but it seems to have a number of features of the
more expensive kayaks (and looks just like a Perception Swifty). It has
a covered hatch and bungee cording on the bow and stern to hold gear
down. I figure this kayak is just a rebranded kayak from a regular
maker, again possibly Perception... Does anyone know?

Why would you figure that? Perception has probably been making polyethelene
canoes longer than any of these other companies have been making
polyethelene kayaks. Their canoes are targetted to the casual paddler so it
stands to reason that they'd be in the recreational kayak market as well.

Should I stick with the Otter, or go with this new option. I won't be
able to demo it, but I have demoed the Perception Swifty and really
liked it.

Honestly, performance wise most 9 to 11' recreational kayaks are likely
pretty much interchangable so if you find one with an extra feature or two
at a price you like, buy it.

John Fereira wrote:
Why would you figure that? Perception has probably been making polyethelene
canoes longer than any of these other companies have been making
polyethelene kayaks. Their canoes are targetted to the casual paddler so it
stands to reason that they'd be in the recreational kayak market as well.

I figured it because they look identical. The overall look of the
Pelican Pursuit 100DLX looks just like the Coleman Ultimate 100. The
similarity in naming, the dimensions, and the features are an almost
exact match. As I stated Coleman doesn't manufacture kayaks, and
usually just places their brand name on other companies products. My
deduction was that when you look at the Coleman and the Pursuit 100DLX
they look exactly alike.

(As I stated I had simply mis-spoken by naming the Perception Swifty, I
meant to say that the Coleman was identical to the Pelican Pursuit
100DLX.)

Honestly, performance wise most 9 to 11' recreational kayaks are likely
pretty much interchangable so if you find one with an extra feature or two
at a price you like, buy it.

The overall shape is a bit different between the two. The otter is a
bit more oval shaped like a rec. boat, whereas the Coleman Ultimate 100
is like a cross between a rec. boat and a day tourer. I think I may end
up with the Coleman for a number of reasons, I just was really hoping
someone would know the manufacturer of this kayak.

Thanks.

wrote in
ups.com:


John Fereira wrote:
Why would you figure that? Perception has probably been making
polyethelene canoes longer than any of these other companies have been
making polyethelene kayaks. Their canoes are targetted to the casual
paddler so it stands to reason that they'd be in the recreational
kayak market as well.

I figured it because they look identical. The overall look of the
Pelican Pursuit 100DLX looks just like the Coleman Ultimate 100. The
similarity in naming, the dimensions, and the features are an almost
exact match. As I stated Coleman doesn't manufacture kayaks, and
usually just places their brand name on other companies products.

I didn't know that. I did a web search on "Coleman Ultimate 100" and the
only thing I came up with was a cooler. Apparently it's a very new model.
From one of the sites I found, it indicated that the Pelican boat is
constructed with RAM-X technology. Coleman holds the patent on RAM-X so it
may be that the Pelican boat is actually made by Coleman.

My
deduction was that when you look at the Coleman and the Pursuit 100DLX
they look exactly alike.

If they look exactly alike and the specifications are exactly alike then
they probably came out of the same mold. Frankly, I think you're spending
more time than is really useful making a decision. I doubt that many people
would find a significant difference between most recreational kayaks on the
market today, in terms of how it actually paddles. That's why I suggested
that the fact that you weren't able to test paddle the Coleman probably
isn't a deal killer. The criteria upon which you might choose a
recreational kayak is quite a bit different than for touring or whitewater
boat. Paddling performance isn't as much of an issue because, the primary
purpose of a recreational kayak is just to get you on the water in a stable
platform for a bit of casual paddling. Most of what you read on vendor
website that distinguishes one rec boat over another is most likely markeing
hype.

There are however a few things you that you might look for.

Is the seat comfortable? Most seats are molded plastic so just sitting in
it for awhile will tell you if there any pressure points that will make
paddling in uncomfortable.

If more than one person is going to be paddling the boat does it have
adjustable footpegs? Yakima foot braces are almost standard but some kayaks
have molded plastic footbraces with a handful of fixed positions.

Does the kayak appear to be reasonably constructed? Look for a fair hull
(no dents) and note how any rigging is attached. If it has a bulkhead (a
plus, since many recreational kayaks do not and it's a safety as well as a
convenience feature) does it appear watertight?

Most recreational kayaks are sold as "entry level" kayaks at an "entry
level" price. The lower the price the more you can spend on a paddle, and
other gear.


(As I stated I had simply mis-spoken by naming the Perception Swifty, I
meant to say that the Coleman was identical to the Pelican Pursuit
100DLX.)

Honestly, performance wise most 9 to 11' recreational kayaks are
likely pretty much interchangable so if you find one with an extra
feature or two at a price you like, buy it.

The overall shape is a bit different between the two. The otter is a
bit more oval shaped like a rec. boat, whereas the Coleman Ultimate 100
is like a cross between a rec. boat and a day tourer.

To me, it look just like another recreational kayak and you shouldn't base
your decision on the possiblity that it might be more like a day touring
kayak. I wouldn't consider anything less than 13' long (I'm being generous)
to be classified as a day touring kayak.

Something you haven't appeared to have done was test paddle a few day
touring kayaks to see if something a bit longer and narrower might be to
your liking.

My first kayak was a 26" wide, 12' long recreational kayak. After I bought
it I took a class and paddled several touring kayaks. Within three weeks of
buying my first boat I was in the market for another one. I ended up buying
a used fiberglass touring boat that I still have (and love to paddle) 9
years later.

I think I may end
up with the Coleman for a number of reasons, I just was really hoping
someone would know the manufacturer of this kayak.

Thanks.

John Fereira wrote:
....Snip...

Wow, thanks John! I really appreciate the response and I learned
something new. I wasn't aware of the Pelican/Coleman relationship, just
seemed a lot like the Pelican Pursuit. The coleman does have a
watertight bulkhead and the bungee cords in the front and back. The
Otter has none of this.

I understand that this is not a day touring model, I was just trying to
say it is more elongated and has more of the features of a day touring
yak. I'll most likely go with the Coleman for the features it offers.

Apparently it is a brand new offering as the store claimed they were
new as of this week, and yes there is no information online anywhere
including Coleman's site yet about it. That was why I turned to this
NG, in hopes someone may know something. It figures after having my
mind made up and going to purchase our kayaks a dark horse enters the
picture and throws it all out of whack.

Thanks again.

wrote:
Hey all,

I was all set to pick up two Old Town Otter Rec. Kayaks, when an
unknown option came into play: A Coleman Ultimate 100. It is $20
snip
Should I stick with the Otter, or go with this new option. I won't be
able to demo it, but I have demoed the Perception Swifty and really
liked it.

These are my final options so bringing up other/better options is out
of the question. But any help on these two is very much appreciated.

My wife was recently in the market for her first kayak. Through much
research, she had decided on a Swifty but had seen the Coleman/Pelican
kayaks and wanted to "check them out" before making a final descision.

The Pelican and Coleman kayaks we looked at were sold at department
stores. Just asking a question brings on dumbfounded looks from the
clerks who have no clue. They also seem cheaply made, one I looked at
had an odd dent in it, not typical hull deformation from sitting on
something, but a flaw in the molded platic about the size of a
softball. No thanks.

Since you are not interested in better options, I won't post what she
finally chose and is 100% happy with.

Sees-koo-wee-hah-nay wrote:
My wife was recently in the market for her first kayak. Through much
research, she had decided on a Swifty but had seen the Coleman/Pelican
kayaks and wanted to "check them out" before making a final descision.

The Pelican and Coleman kayaks we looked at were sold at department
stores. Just asking a question brings on dumbfounded looks from the
clerks who have no clue. They also seem cheaply made, one I looked at
had an odd dent in it, not typical hull deformation from sitting on
something, but a flaw in the molded platic about the size of a
softball. No thanks.

Since you are not interested in better options, I won't post what she
finally chose and is 100% happy with.

I have inspected the kayak closely and it is actually well made and as
rigid if not more than the Otter and very similar in construction.
Otters are a good basic rec boat, it isn't that I'm being difficult or
anything... just that I know what I am looking for after demoing what
we have and we have decided on that boat for a variety of reasons. The
Coleman just threw a monkey wrench in the works since it is brand new
and has a few nice additional features at a very slightly lower
pricepoint on sale.

I have two outdoor outfitter/kayak shops in my area and truth be told,
the salesman at Dunham's Sporting goods by my house was an avid kayaker
and was actually quite informative. He didn't have any info on who made
the Coleman though beyond our agreement that it looked very similar to
the Pelican Pursuit.. which is why I came here.

I'd be perfectly happy to hear what your wife chose, just that
extolling the virtues of a day tour/touring model will not even be
considered as it is not what we need or desire. Some fishing on
fla****er lakes/rivers, some recreational paddling for exercise, and
some basic class1-2 rapids at best for fun. Believe me I know how nice
and comfortable some upper-end models can be and if they fit our goals
and budget I'd consider them... they just don't fit our needs right
now. I have no problems buying two more a a couple years or so down the
road and owning 4 kayaks with specific purposes. Not a big deal for me.

Thanks

wrote:
Sees-koo-wee-hah-nay wrote:
My wife was recently in the market for her first kayak. Through much
research, she had decided on a Swifty but had seen the Coleman/Pelican
kayaks and wanted to "check them out" before making a final descision.

The Pelican and Coleman kayaks we looked at were sold at department
stores. Just asking a question brings on dumbfounded looks from the
clerks who have no clue. They also seem cheaply made, one I looked at
had an odd dent in it, not typical hull deformation from sitting on
something, but a flaw in the molded platic about the size of a
softball. No thanks.

Since you are not interested in better options, I won't post what she
finally chose and is 100% happy with.

I have inspected the kayak closely and it is actually well made and as
rigid if not more than the Otter and very similar in construction.
Otters are a good basic rec boat, it isn't that I'm being difficult or
anything... just that I know what I am looking for after demoing what
we have and we have decided on that boat for a variety of reasons.

I don't think you're being difficult, I think you're doing your
homework and that's a good thing. There are a lot of choices out
there.

The
Coleman just threw a monkey wrench in the works since it is brand new
and has a few nice additional features at a very slightly lower
pricepoint on sale.

The odd dent in the hull and clueless clerks totally turned me off.
They may be ok for the money, but we never got that far.


snipwhich is why I came here.

I'd be perfectly happy to hear what your wife chose, just that
extolling the virtues of a day tour/touring model will not even be
considered as it is not what we need or desire.

You won't have to hear it because we don't own it.

She went with the Perception Sundance 9.5 due to it's more comfortable
(and adjustable) seat and deck rigging. Like I said, she had almost
decided on the Swifty, but after trying the Sundance, the seat made a
believer out of her. She balked at spending more money, but I assured
her it was better to spend a little more than have buyers remorse
later. The Sundance is an upgraded Swifty and worth the extra money
IMO.

I already went that route a few years ago when I bought the "Dick's
Special", the Classic Pungo. While I love the Pungo's hull design and
stability, the seat left me wishing I had bought something else. The
old remedy of sitting on a boat cushion helped, but I found myself
making excuses NOT to go kayaking and it wasn't long before I sold it.

Some fishing on fla****er lakes/rivers, some recreational paddling for exercise, and
some basic class1-2 rapids at best for fun. Believe me I know how nice
and comfortable some upper-end models can be and if they fit our goals
and budget I'd consider them... they just don't fit our needs right
now.

My needs are pretty much the same as yours. I bought a Pungo 120 and it
is so much nicer than the Classic Pungo I had before. The seat is
fantastic, I can adjust it a couple of ways and it helps me spend way
more time on the water than I had in the past. I had to go over my
budget by about $200, but I have not regretted it. I thought it was
better to spend more and cry once, then get something I wasn't happy
with and cry often.

Here's a pic of hers and mine.

http://i3.tinypic.com/vypbvs.jpg

Hope you find just what you're looking for.

Sees-koo-wee-hah-nay wrote:
My needs are pretty much the same as yours. I bought a Pungo 120 and it
is so much nicer than the Classic Pungo I had before. The seat is
fantastic, I can adjust it a couple of ways and it helps me spend way
more time on the water than I had in the past. I had to go over my
budget by about $200, but I have not regretted it. I thought it was
better to spend more and cry once, then get something I wasn't happy
with and cry often.

Here's a pic of hers and mine.

http://i3.tinypic.com/vypbvs.jpg

Hope you find just what you're looking for.

UPDATE: Just an FYI to anyone who cares, I picked up the Coleman
Ultimate 100's the other day for only $229 each on sale with over $100
off each one. They are extremely well made. They are Roto-X hulls so my
guess of them being made by Pelican seem spot on.

Since there is absolutely NO information online, on Colemans site, or
on dunhams, I wanted to post some info.

They are 10' long and almost exactly in the middle of a rec shape and a
day touring yak. They have a nice seat with a padded back. The have a
dry storage compartment aft and decking fore. They are two toned with
the upper half being red and the lower half a tannish color
(Coleman-ish in color) The only thing they lack from the Pelican
Pursuit 100DLX that they are based on are the footpegs. Which I will
just add.

I'll post some pics and more info once I get them out on the water for
a good long time (we've been having T-storms).

Take care,
Dominic