wrote in message
ups.com...

UPDATE: Just an FYI to anyone who cares, I picked up the Coleman
Ultimate 100's the other day for only $229 each on sale with over $100
off each one. They are extremely well made.

I can hardly believe the words 'Coleman' and 'well made' are in the same
paragraph.

--riverman

riverman wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

UPDATE: Just an FYI to anyone who cares, I picked up the Coleman
Ultimate 100's the other day for only $229 each on sale with over $100
off each one. They are extremely well made.

I can hardly believe the words 'Coleman' and 'well made' are in the same
paragraph.

--riverman

And with a closed mind you never will. The "Coleman" kayak is not made
by Coleman, but Pelican Intl. with a roto-X hull. The fit and finish
are well above both the Otter and the Otter Sport, as well as a few
other "better" brands I have looked at. Side-by-side they have the
advantage in a number of areas, I highly reccomend that you actually
look at one since they are brand new and then make a decision. As I
stated the only thing lacking was the footpegs.

One of the workers there is a kayak and water safety instructor and he
was amazed at them when they came in last week which is how I came to
seriously consider them at all. We went over them from top to bottom
and there were no defects, signs of poor build, or really anything but
plusses for what they are... recreational kayaks. Add into that the
fact that they were at an introductory sale price of $129 off each and
I basically purchased both of them for the price of one.

Pelican Pursuit 100DLX's get very good reviews around the 'net so these
are no different except for the little name badge and color.

Coleman has long been known as the producer and seller of the worst
canoe money can buy.[1]

This may not be true of the kayaks marketed under their name.

But you need to understand that, as a corporate philospphy, Coleman has
no objection to selling rank and utter trash to newbie customers who
are not equipped to make informed decisions. I try to avoid
patronizing anyone with that marketing philosophy.

-Richard, His Kanubic Travesty
--
================================================== ====================
Richard Hopley Winston-Salem, NC, USA
.. rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net
.. Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll
.. rhopley[at]wfubmc[dot]edu
.. OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters
================================================== ====================

[1] It is provably the worst by many criteria, although someone who
requires minimal performance and wants something REALLY inexpensive,
yet durable enough to live outside and be battered by clueless users,
it can be a good buy. Say, if you want something to keep chained to a
tree at yer lakeside cabin for the kids to splash around in. 'Course,
if you can afford a lakeside cabin you should be able to afford a real
canoe; one that doesn't include the entrapment hazards (aren't the kids
lives worth SOMEthing?) that the Coleman has.

Entrapment hazards ?

Probably 12 years ago, here in r.b.p, there was a thread on the
Coleman... wait, let me back up. EVERY year, here on r.b.p, there is
at least one thread about how bad the Coleman is.

One of the reviled features is that metal skeleton that holds the hull
rigid. We have heard, here on r.b.p, from someone who once worked at
an outdoor shop and from time to time had the task of "assembling"
Coleman "canoes". This is because they come in some fixed number per
container. The hulls are nested inside one another, and these skeleton
members, and the seats and endcaps and whatever are packed inside the
top "canoe". The conclusion we have all drawn from this is that
Coleman "canoe" hull design is driven by the need for packing/shipping
efficiencies, not for anything resembling actual paddling efficiencies
of hullspeed, maneuverability, or stability.

The message I will probably never forget, from around 12 years ago, in
one of these Coleman-bashing threads, was from an ordained minister in
Florida, who bought a Coleman for stillwater fishing -- lakes and
estuaries, canals and the runaouts from springs. He relates how, on
one occasion when he hooked a big one (aren't they all? Even if it's a
Pastor telling the tale?) he got overexcited, stood up, and capsized
his "canoe". I s'pose I should call it a Coleman so I don't have to
keep typing quotation marks. So, not the end of the world, right?
Problem was, some item of his clothing -- I want to say robes, but that
might be a detail inserted by my imagination -- managed to get pinched
between one of these skeletal members and the plastic hull, so he
souldn't swim to shore or right his Coleman or anything (if you've ever
been in that situation, you know that everything is much more confusing
than would appear evident to an outside observer; there are elements of
panic when yer in the water without freedom of motion, and, of course,
the uncertainty about WHY you have lost yer freedom of motion).

So, the salient facts that stand out in my mind a "Pastor",
"fishing", "Coleman", "flip", "entrapment by skeletal member", and, heh
heh, his closing remark about how glad he was that none of his
parishioners were there to overhear his language that day!


-Richard, His Kanubic Travesty
--

================================================== ====================
Richard Hopley Winston-Salem, NC, USA
Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll
rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net
OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters
rhopley[at]wfubmc[dot]edu
================================================== ====================

wrote:
Entrapment hazards ?

I _think_ that the kayak has fewer problems in this regard than the
canoes. Rather than an aluminum skeleton, the kayak is made of two
pieces bonded together, so it has enough rigidity from the plastic
alone. Think McDonalds hamburger box with a hole in the top. Enough to
keep from collapsing on itself, that is, not nearly enough to resist
collapsing in a WW pin situation. But on a pond, you'd probably have to
work to get stuck in it, as long as the shell was intact.

Tip o' the hat to OC-1 for remembering the Parson's Tale, which I recall
as quite entertaining in the original.

Steve

--
Steve Cramer
Athens, GA

Oci-One Kanubi wrote:
Probably 12 years ago, here in r.b.p, there was a thread on the
Coleman... wait, let me back up. EVERY year, here on r.b.p, there is
at least one thread about how bad the Coleman is.

snip
The message I will probably never forget, from around 12 years ago, in
one of these Coleman-bashing threads, was from an ordained minister in
Florida, who bought a Coleman for stillwater fishing

Thanks Richard, that's one story that I will never forget. Every time
these green Coleman hulks come floating down our local stream (they are
used by a local rental company), I think about those discussions on RBP.

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/

On Thu, 18 May 2006 08:27:34 +0200, Wilko wrote:

Oci-One Kanubi wrote:
Probably 12 years ago, here in r.b.p, there was a thread on the
Coleman... wait, let me back up. EVERY year, here on r.b.p, there is
at least one thread about how bad the Coleman is.

snip
The message I will probably never forget, from around 12 years ago, in
one of these Coleman-bashing threads, was from an ordained minister in
Florida, who bought a Coleman for stillwater fishing

Thanks Richard, that's one story that I will never forget. Every time
these green Coleman hulks come floating down our local stream (they are
used by a local rental company), I think about those discussions on RBP.


I think about a couple of good ol' boys I saw take one down a
combination of class II and class III rapids. It was their second
Coleman. The first they'd had for many years but had to leave wrapped
on a rock and when they came back to tow it off, they found tire
tracks and no canoe.

Between the guys they might have had a bit less than one full set of
teeth, but they were full of good cheer and stories about rivers and
rapids they'd been on. The green Colemans had done well by them.

Not that I'd recommend a Coleman for anything but Class I and flat
water, but they aren't absolute death traps. They're cheap, easy to
buy many places, last a long long time for the occasional weekend
paddler and generally pretty harmless. I've paddled in one a friend
had. It was adequate for the job. They're excellent for rental
stuff, too, though my fav local place preferred aluminum. I didn't
buy either Coleman or aluminum when I got around to getting my own
boat, but I had enough money by then to go for better than the
cheapest.

--

r.bc: vixen
Speaker to squirrels, willow watcher, etc..
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless. Really.

Don't ask me what time it is lest I'm of
a mood to tell you how to make a clock.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli