"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

Just playing YOUR game, Bert. Remember? I tell you used car lots are
loaded with 1-2 year old SUVs, not because they came from ended leases,
but because many people woke up and figured out they were the wrong
car. You respond by explaining the purchase terms of your vehicle. It's
called a "feint".

You are making an assumption about why these people traded in 1-2 year
old SUV's. When you have interviewed a statistically appropriate number
and generated some statistics let me know.

I was explaining to you that the decision to purchase a Hybrid is not
based upon economics but, it is based upon emotion. Also, the fact that
you said "Beats me. I don't care. I'd never buy that type of vehicle,
regardless of how it was powered" was a poor attempt to deflect the
factthat you were beaten on your own terms.

I didn't say I wouldn't buy a hybrid. I said I wouldn't buy a hybrid SUV.

You were harping about people "turning in" their SUV's for other vehicles.
So, I used the Escape as an example and your responded that it didn't
matter because you wouldn't buy that kind of vehicle. Do you know how
childish that sounds?

Not much different from you explaining the financing terms of your vehicle,
which was 100% irrelevant to the discussion.




Perhaps people buy the hybrid version because they want to use less
gasoline, not because they care so much about total cost of ownership. Is
that possible?

Look, Doug is ignoring economics when it conveniently fits his current
position. I'll have to remember that economics are not important to you.

Well, people are buying hybrids right now. If battery replacement issues are
such a problem, how do YOU explain the FACT that they are selling well? Are
the customers being hypnotized when they enter the dealerships?

Perfect next vehicle for Bert...so he can be cured of his sinful
wasteful ways.
http://tinyurl.com/qmexm

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

Just playing YOUR game, Bert. Remember? I tell you used car lots are
loaded with 1-2 year old SUVs, not because they came from ended
leases, but because many people woke up and figured out they were the
wrong car. You respond by explaining the purchase terms of your
vehicle. It's called a "feint".

You are making an assumption about why these people traded in 1-2 year
old SUV's. When you have interviewed a statistically appropriate number
and generated some statistics let me know.

I was explaining to you that the decision to purchase a Hybrid is not
based upon economics but, it is based upon emotion. Also, the fact that
you said "Beats me. I don't care. I'd never buy that type of vehicle,
regardless of how it was powered" was a poor attempt to deflect the
factthat you were beaten on your own terms.

I didn't say I wouldn't buy a hybrid. I said I wouldn't buy a hybrid
SUV.

You were harping about people "turning in" their SUV's for other
vehicles. So, I used the Escape as an example and your responded that it
didn't matter because you wouldn't buy that kind of vehicle. Do you know
how childish that sounds?

Not much different from you explaining the financing terms of your
vehicle, which was 100% irrelevant to the discussion.

Perhaps people buy the hybrid version because they want to use less
gasoline, not because they care so much about total cost of ownership.
Is that possible?

Look, Doug is ignoring economics when it conveniently fits his current
position. I'll have to remember that economics are not important to you.

Well, people are buying hybrids right now. If battery replacement issues
are such a problem, how do YOU explain the FACT that they are selling
well? Are the customers being hypnotized when they enter the dealerships?

It makes them feel good, no other reason and no logic involved. I'm suprised
that you are ranting and raving about how stupid these people are for
wasting money.

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

Just playing YOUR game, Bert. Remember? I tell you used car lots are
loaded with 1-2 year old SUVs, not because they came from ended
leases, but because many people woke up and figured out they were the
wrong car. You respond by explaining the purchase terms of your
vehicle. It's called a "feint".

You are making an assumption about why these people traded in 1-2 year
old SUV's. When you have interviewed a statistically appropriate
number and generated some statistics let me know.

I was explaining to you that the decision to purchase a Hybrid is not
based upon economics but, it is based upon emotion. Also, the fact
that you said "Beats me. I don't care. I'd never buy that type of
vehicle, regardless of how it was powered" was a poor attempt to
deflect the factthat you were beaten on your own terms.

I didn't say I wouldn't buy a hybrid. I said I wouldn't buy a hybrid
SUV.

You were harping about people "turning in" their SUV's for other
vehicles. So, I used the Escape as an example and your responded that it
didn't matter because you wouldn't buy that kind of vehicle. Do you know
how childish that sounds?

Not much different from you explaining the financing terms of your
vehicle, which was 100% irrelevant to the discussion.

Perhaps people buy the hybrid version because they want to use less
gasoline, not because they care so much about total cost of ownership.
Is that possible?

Look, Doug is ignoring economics when it conveniently fits his current
position. I'll have to remember that economics are not important to you.

Well, people are buying hybrids right now. If battery replacement issues
are such a problem, how do YOU explain the FACT that they are selling
well? Are the customers being hypnotized when they enter the dealerships?

It makes them feel good, no other reason and no logic involved. I'm
suprised that you are ranting and raving about how stupid these people are
for wasting money.


I think you're assuming buyers are always stupid. What is SUV buyers were
asked this question: "If you can have every single feature and benefit you
asked for, but get 23mpg instead of 14mpg, would that interest you?" How do
you suppose some buyers would react to that?

Remember: People buy the sizzle, not the steak (as sales trainers love to
point out).

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
news

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

Just playing YOUR game, Bert. Remember? I tell you used car lots are
loaded with 1-2 year old SUVs, not because they came from ended
leases, but because many people woke up and figured out they were
the wrong car. You respond by explaining the purchase terms of your
vehicle. It's called a "feint".

You are making an assumption about why these people traded in 1-2
year old SUV's. When you have interviewed a statistically appropriate
number and generated some statistics let me know.

I was explaining to you that the decision to purchase a Hybrid is not
based upon economics but, it is based upon emotion. Also, the fact
that you said "Beats me. I don't care. I'd never buy that type of
vehicle, regardless of how it was powered" was a poor attempt to
deflect the factthat you were beaten on your own terms.

I didn't say I wouldn't buy a hybrid. I said I wouldn't buy a hybrid
SUV.

You were harping about people "turning in" their SUV's for other
vehicles. So, I used the Escape as an example and your responded that
it didn't matter because you wouldn't buy that kind of vehicle. Do you
know how childish that sounds?

Not much different from you explaining the financing terms of your
vehicle, which was 100% irrelevant to the discussion.

Perhaps people buy the hybrid version because they want to use less
gasoline, not because they care so much about total cost of ownership.
Is that possible?

Look, Doug is ignoring economics when it conveniently fits his current
position. I'll have to remember that economics are not important to
you.

Well, people are buying hybrids right now. If battery replacement issues
are such a problem, how do YOU explain the FACT that they are selling
well? Are the customers being hypnotized when they enter the
dealerships?

It makes them feel good, no other reason and no logic involved. I'm
suprised that you are ranting and raving about how stupid these people
are for wasting money.


I think you're assuming buyers are always stupid. What is SUV buyers were
asked this question: "If you can have every single feature and benefit you
asked for, but get 23mpg instead of 14mpg, would that interest you?" How
do you suppose some buyers would react to that?

Cavet Emptor.

Remember: People buy the sizzle, not the steak (as sales trainers love to
point out).

Ask Chuck how much money he made only delivering the sizzle.

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
. ..


I think you're assuming buyers are always stupid. What is SUV buyers were
asked this question: "If you can have every single feature and benefit
you asked for, but get 23mpg instead of 14mpg, would that interest you?"
How do you suppose some buyers would react to that?

Cavet Emptor.


Why? I don't expect the mpg estimates to be gospel, but they're usually
achievable unless someone drives like an idiot.

Let's try this, since you're totally allergic to thought experiments:

You're a car salesman. A lady walks in and says "I want an SUV. I need lots
of room for passengers and soccer balls. And, I think they're safer because
blah blah blah".

Now - you have two available. One's the traditional variety, with 4WD and a
V-8. MPG=16/12. The other has 2WD only, a V-6, and MPG sticker says 25/20.
Other than these differences they are identical.

Would you tell her about both versions?

Doug Kanter wrote:


Well, people are buying hybrids right now. If battery replacement issues are
such a problem, how do YOU explain the FACT that they are selling well? Are
the customers being hypnotized when they enter the dealerships?

Here's some perspective for you;

My wife is ready to replace her Subaru. We started shopping a couple of
months ago and looked initially at the Mercedes M Class. When I
discovered that nearly all current owners are reporting a lot of
mechanical problems, we expanded the search. Really liked the Toyota
Highlander, but made the mistake of driving the hybrid. The performance
of the hybrid kicks the stuffing out of the standard V6. There is no
comparison.

People compare the mpg of the hybrid with the standard V6 and wonder,
"why would anybody pay all that much extra just to get (in real life) a
couple of more miles per gallon?" Probably nobody would. However, if
you compare the mpg to a V8 model and realize that the hybrid offers V8
performance, (not V6 performance), with fuel economy more typical of a
large displacement 4-cylinder it makes some sense.

Toyota licenses the hybrid technology to Ford, who uses it in the
Escape and the Mercury Mariner. We drove both, and I wouldn't buy
either one. Toyota only sells the 4-cylinder version to Ford, and the
4-cylinder version is very underpowered. With the 4-banger, you really
do get about the same mpg as with the gas engine and if anything the
4-banger Escapes and Mariners are *less* peppy than the gas
counterparts.

Then for about 20% more than a Highlander you can buy a Lexus, which
will probably be our final choice. The Lexus makes the Toyota look
crude by comparison. We'd own one already except there's no rush to own
a vehicle that's in short supply and where the sticker price is
absolutely non negotiable. I almost don't know how to buy a car where
you can't "deal". The Lexus guy wanted to close me and I asked him,
"Can you give me a reason to buy now?" He was pretty sharp, replying
with, "Yeah, you get to own a Lexus." :-)

(One consideration in favor of delayed timing is the "monorail tax"
drops off of our car tabs by late summer this year. Will make about a
$700 difference in the first year license cost of a vehicle in that
price range. Have to weigh that against continuing depreciation of the
present 5 year old Subaru.........)

So there's some insight into why people would consider buying hybrids.
On a fuel economy basis, don't compare to the V6 gas- compare to the V8
gas that delivers equivalent performance.

wrote in message
oups.com...

Doug Kanter wrote:


Well, people are buying hybrids right now. If battery replacement issues
are
such a problem, how do YOU explain the FACT that they are selling well?
Are
the customers being hypnotized when they enter the dealerships?

Here's some perspective for you;

My wife is ready to replace her Subaru. We started shopping a couple of
months ago and looked initially at the Mercedes M Class. When I
discovered that nearly all current owners are reporting a lot of
mechanical problems, we expanded the search. Really liked the Toyota
Highlander, but made the mistake of driving the hybrid. The performance
of the hybrid kicks the stuffing out of the standard V6. There is no
comparison.

That good???

wrote:
Doug Kanter wrote:


Well, people are buying hybrids right now. If battery replacement issues are
such a problem, how do YOU explain the FACT that they are selling well? Are
the customers being hypnotized when they enter the dealerships?


Here's some perspective for you;

My wife is ready to replace her Subaru. We started shopping a couple of
months ago and looked initially at the Mercedes M Class. When I
discovered that nearly all current owners are reporting a lot of
mechanical problems, we expanded the search. Really liked the Toyota
Highlander, but made the mistake of driving the hybrid. The performance
of the hybrid kicks the stuffing out of the standard V6. There is no
comparison.

People compare the mpg of the hybrid with the standard V6 and wonder,
"why would anybody pay all that much extra just to get (in real life) a
couple of more miles per gallon?" Probably nobody would. However, if
you compare the mpg to a V8 model and realize that the hybrid offers V8
performance, (not V6 performance), with fuel economy more typical of a
large displacement 4-cylinder it makes some sense.

Toyota licenses the hybrid technology to Ford, who uses it in the
Escape and the Mercury Mariner. We drove both, and I wouldn't buy
either one. Toyota only sells the 4-cylinder version to Ford, and the
4-cylinder version is very underpowered. With the 4-banger, you really
do get about the same mpg as with the gas engine and if anything the
4-banger Escapes and Mariners are *less* peppy than the gas
counterparts.

Then for about 20% more than a Highlander you can buy a Lexus, which
will probably be our final choice. The Lexus makes the Toyota look
crude by comparison. We'd own one already except there's no rush to own
a vehicle that's in short supply and where the sticker price is
absolutely non negotiable. I almost don't know how to buy a car where
you can't "deal". The Lexus guy wanted to close me and I asked him,
"Can you give me a reason to buy now?" He was pretty sharp, replying
with, "Yeah, you get to own a Lexus." :-)

(One consideration in favor of delayed timing is the "monorail tax"
drops off of our car tabs by late summer this year. Will make about a
$700 difference in the first year license cost of a vehicle in that
price range. Have to weigh that against continuing depreciation of the
present 5 year old Subaru.........)

So there's some insight into why people would consider buying hybrids.
On a fuel economy basis, don't compare to the V6 gas- compare to the V8
gas that delivers equivalent performance.

You got a 2001 Forrester?
I liked the style of the rear end of those models till the redesign in 2003?
If you were closer, I like to have a look at that.
Wonder if 'Richard' could swing back North West, pick up the car &
continue back east?

Don White wrote:


You got a 2001 Forrester?


As of a couple of hours ago, nope.
The Mrs. said she was noticing too many $$ going into the boat overhaul
rather than into her transportation, so the Forester is only a memory
and we're (she's) driving something new.