"Hanta-Yo-Yo" wrote in message
oups.com...

I did read some acct where a kayaker had a real dangerous incident
occur with a dry suit, where it had torn, and he could not recover from
a wet exit.

Your correct riverman, when you say you are equal mass with the
surrounding water, but that could put you on the bottom of the river,
bouncing along downstream and no way to resist the force of the water,

Why is that? The river water isn't all on the bottom. I didn't say you'd
have equal mass with the water (although that's basically correct), I said
you'd have neutral buoyancy...which is technically incorrect as you still
have your PFD on which provides positive buoyancy. The effect of a full
drysuit would be that you have more inertia: it would be hard to change
directions (so yes, when you are under the surface, it would be hard to get
to the top), but you would also find that once you were on the top, it would
take a slight bit longer to get dragged down under. Its like swimming in
molasses. Unfortunately, you still have the same amount of breath when you
DO go under, so the longer time spent below the surface would be very
serious. But there wouldn't be any special forces holding you to the
*bottom* of the river.

The problem with the open top waders, is that the waders act like a
drift anchor,

Only if there is a velocity differential between you and the current. If you
are free-floating, they don't act as a drift anchor at all. But once you try
to stop yourself, THEN they act like a drift anchor. Additionally, like a
drift anchor, they will tend to keep you in the faster current.

and forms a resistant force equal to the amount of water
displaced, and the velocity of the water, and I believe this force
would increase logrithmically. In other words it would get very large,
very fast.

Umm, actually a log curve flattens out pretty quickly. You may be thinking
that it increases exponentially, which does get very large, very fast.
Remember, you're talking to a HS math teacher here...and I'd have to give
you pretty low marks on your armwaving. g

No one holding on to a throw line would be able to pull you
out. You would eventually reach some sort of terminal velocity, that
would however be going alot faster than you would feel comfortable
with, and probably taking you where you did not intend to go. At least
not quite yet.

You'd end up going at the velocity of the river, which is the same velocity
you'd be going if you were nude. The difference is that you (or other
people) would find it extremely difficult to change your velocity, because
you'd basically have a mass three or four times your normal mass. When that
mass is multiplied by the velocity of the river, it'd be like trying to stop
the Queen Mary.

--riverman

riverman wrote:
"Hanta-Yo-Yo" wrote in message
oups.com...

I did read some acct where a kayaker had a real dangerous incident
occur with a dry suit, where it had torn, and he could not recover from
a wet exit.

Your correct riverman, when you say you are equal mass with the
surrounding water, but that could put you on the bottom of the river,
bouncing along downstream and no way to resist the force of the water,

Why is that? The river water isn't all on the bottom. I didn't say you'd
have equal mass with the water (although that's basically correct), I said
you'd have neutral buoyancy...which is technically incorrect as you still
have your PFD on which provides positive buoyancy. The effect of a full
drysuit would be that you have more inertia: it would be hard to change
directions (so yes, when you are under the surface, it would be hard to get
to the top), but you would also find that once you were on the top, it would
take a slight bit longer to get dragged down under. Its like swimming in
molasses. Unfortunately, you still have the same amount of breath when you
DO go under, so the longer time spent below the surface would be very
serious. But there wouldn't be any special forces holding you to the
*bottom* of the river.

I did not mean to imply that you would necessarily be drug down, but
that you could find yourself bouncing along the bottom, and not able
to do much about it! Though you would still have your PFD on, that 15
Lbs of flotation would be a small percentage of your total weight, and
would not bring you to the surface very fast.

The problem with the open top waders, is that the waders act like a
drift anchor,

Only if there is a velocity differential between you and the current. If you
are free-floating, they don't act as a drift anchor at all. But once you try
to stop yourself, THEN they act like a drift anchor. Additionally, like a
drift anchor, they will tend to keep you in the faster current.

Again an undesirable situation if you are interested in getting out of
the water, which is usually the point.


and forms a resistant force equal to the amount of water
displaced, and the velocity of the water, and I believe this force
would increase logrithmically. In other words it would get very large,
very fast.

Umm, actually a log curve flattens out pretty quickly. You may be thinking
that it increases exponentially, which does get very large, very fast.
Remember, you're talking to a HS math teacher here...and I'd have to give
you pretty low marks on your armwaving. g


So you don't agree with using logs to descibe multitudes of energy
involved in hurricanes and earthquakes. Exponential works, Logs work!

No one holding on to a throw line would be able to pull you
out. You would eventually reach some sort of terminal velocity, that
would however be going alot faster than you would feel comfortable
with, and probably taking you where you did not intend to go. At least
not quite yet.

You'd end up going at the velocity of the river, which is the same velocity
you'd be going if you were nude. The difference is that you (or other
people) would find it extremely difficult to change your velocity, because
you'd basically have a mass three or four times your normal mass. When that
mass is multiplied by the velocity of the river, it'd be like trying to stop
the Queen Mary.

I do not recall saying that you would be going faster than the river,
but as you say as fast as the rest of the river. In a dry suit, that is
compromised and taking on water, you could easily take on ten gallons
of water that would weigh 80 lbs additionally. If you have ever tried
wading across deep rushing water, you know it is difficult. Try putting
on an additional 80 lbs and see how well you do.

Waders on the other hand could easily take on 20 gallons, or 160 lbs,
now you are in real trouble trying to wade that stream. Get knocked
down, and try getting up. Add to this the volume of water could be
larger than the 10 and 20 gallons, and the velocity could be faster
than where you would try to fjord, and the problems just get worse, and
the prognosis for successful self recovery less.

Also at the same time, as pointed out later in the thread, you are
getting colder all the time. The shock to vital organs and the lowering
of core temps can result in catastrophic outcome. I heard recently, "
50% of folks can't swim 50 ft to a near shore when the water temp is 50
degrees or below! Now add the extra weight and see how well you do! HYY

--riverman