Larry C wrote:

Booties are great and I'll never own a drysuit without them. They make
the suit much easier to get into and your feet stay dry and much
warmer. I have latex booties on the bibs and have not had a durablity
issue with them, but I am careful. If I had it done today, I think I
would opt for the goretex or goretex clones socks instead of the latex.

Now there's a tip I hadn't thought about! That sure takes away some of
the limitations of latex! Thanks Larry!

I had KoKotat install the relief zipper and booties while they were
doing some warrenty repair for me. There are a couple of companies that
advertize on BT that replace gaskets (a job you can do yourself if you
have the time) , they may do the zipper also. I assume that all of
these companies are US based.

Yeah, I'm looking for EU based alternatives, mainly because it's cheaper
and less hassle.

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/

-I want to add a relief zipper.

Can this be done by someone handy enough to replace the latex gaskets,
or do you recommend having it done by a company who specializes in that?

It's possible to do it yourself if you have a commercial sewing machine
and you can find the zipper. As much as I like DIY solutions, this is
one job that may be better off being done by a professional.

-I want to add neoprene gaskets over the latex ones, in part to prevent
scratch and UV damage as well as to keep the water out even better.
Anyone know of a company in Europe who does that kind of alteration?
I can do it myself, cutting up an old thin wetsuit and sewing on the
gaskets myself. Still, I prefer it done by someone who knows what
they're doing... :-)

You could glue cuffs one with Aquaseal or a similar adhesive/sealant.

-I was thinking about having latex socks added to it instead of gaskets.
I remember reading on RBP (probably years ago) that it is better for the
circulation as well as making certain that you keep your feet dry. I was
thinking about wearing booties over them.

Good idea. Latex socks are vastly superior to ankle seals.

Anyone know where I can find those latex socks in Europe (or online?) ?

www.ossystems.com

Latex seals are easy to install yourself. Kokatat has instructions on
their site and I've got pic and instructions in a Webshots album at:

http://community.webshots.com/user/brian_nystrom-reg

It on the second page under "Drysuit Repair".

Per Brian Nystrom:
Latex socks are vastly superior to ankle seals.

I finally got socks, but a reservation still nags at me.
Namely, if I flood the suit I'll be unable to drain
water at the ankle cuffs.
--
PeteCresswell

"(PeteCresswell)" wrote in message
...
Per Brian Nystrom:
Latex socks are vastly superior to ankle seals.

I finally got socks, but a reservation still nags at me.
Namely, if I flood the suit I'll be unable to drain
water at the ankle cuffs.
--
PeteCresswell

I did an experiment with my flyfishing waders. Not entirely the same as a
drysuit, but the similarity is that the waders also had fixed booties. The
rumors in the flyfishing circles is that, if you fall in the river with
waders on, the water will fill your waders and you will not be able to swim,
and consequently will drown. I jumped into a swimming pool and tested the
theories; you can read the report here http://tinyurl.com/rkd3p

With waders, you can easily swim if they are filled with water, with any
amount of water in them. In fact, its a bit easier to move if they have
large volumes of water in them, as the waders don't constrict your body so
much. HOWEVER (and this is a big however), you cannot overappreciate how
hard it is to climb out of the water with waders that are even half-full of
water! I was completely unable to climb up the ladder out of the shallow end
of the pool, and also completely unable to lay on my belly on the edge of
the pool and roll onto land, which is the motion someone would use to get
back in a raft. I could not even sit on the edge of the pool and lift one
leg out of the water.

Although I used to use a drysuit all the time, I never realized the danger
of getting a massive leak and having it fill with water. I am a strong
proponent of booties rather than ankle gaskets, as the whole reason for a
drysuit IMHO is to create as warm, dry an environment as possible, and that
includes my feet. However, knowing what I know now, I think I'd wear a waist
belt with my drysuit to prohibit enough water from getting in to fill the
legs even partway. Draining at the ankles, as Pete suggests, would be
another option, but I think I'd rather stay warm with the booties and wear a
preventative belt instead.

--riverman

"riverman" wrote in message ...

With waders, you can easily swim if they are filled with water, with any
amount of water in them. In fact, its a bit easier to move if they have
large volumes of water in them, as the waders don't constrict your body so
much.

Yowp. I misstated, not having reread my experiment report before I posted
here. With waders, it is EASIER to swim when they are dry, as the water
pressure keeps the fabric pressed tightly to your body and you have no
interference. Once they have some water in them, they 'billow' and its like
trying to run with oversized jeans on. Not impossible, but harder.

--riverman

riverman wrote:
"riverman" wrote in message ...

With waders, you can easily swim if they are filled with water, with any
amount of water in them. In fact, its a bit easier to move if they have
large volumes of water in them, as the waders don't constrict your body so
much.

Yowp. I misstated, not having reread my experiment report before I posted
here. With waders, it is EASIER to swim when they are dry, as the water
pressure keeps the fabric pressed tightly to your body and you have no
interference. Once they have some water in them, they 'billow' and its like
trying to run with oversized jeans on. Not impossible, but harder.

--riverman

I would expect that being in a pool, and being in fast running WW would
also make a huge difference. The moving water would be pulling you down
at a much higher rate than the weight of gravity keeping you from
getting out of the pool. HYY

river typed With waders, you can easily swim if they are filled with
water, with any
amount of water in them. In fact, its a bit easier to move if they have

large volumes of water in them, as the waders don't constrict your body
so
much. HOWEVER (and this is a big however), you cannot overappreciate
how
hard it is to climb out of the water with waders that are even
half-full of
water! I was completely unable to climb up the ladder out of the
shallow end
of the pool, and also completely unable to lay on my belly on the edge
of
the pool and roll onto land, which is the motion someone would use to
get
back in a raft. I could not even sit on the edge of the pool and lift
one
leg out of the water.

I can tell you from real experience that a flooded drysuit does not
effect your bouyancy, but it makes it very difficult to swim in
current. The problem is that you still have to overcome the moment the
additional weight of the water, think about swimming the length of a
pool with about 20 or 30 lbs of extra weight.

A drysuit is still well worth taking the chance of a flooded suit,
which generally only happens if you do something really stupid like
leave the relief zipper open. The addded safety under cold water and
weather paddling conditions are tremendous.

Per Larry C:
something really stupid like
leave the relief zipper open.

Have you ever heard of somebody doing this?

I read an account by one seemingly-competent guy of his paddling out on really
cold water only to realize that he'd gotten a half-mile-or-so offshore without
having zipped the shoulder zipper on his dry suit.
--
PeteCresswell

On 19-Mar-2006, "(PeteCresswell)" wrote:

I finally got socks, but a reservation still nags at me.
Namely, if I flood the suit I'll be unable to drain
water at the ankle cuffs.

If your life is in danger, pull your knife and cut the booties open.

If you flood your drysuit by leaving the relief zipper open, it's probably
Murphy tapping you on the shoulder. Consider the cost of fixing the
suit his fee. If you have neglected maintenance and your seals fail,
ditto. If you tear the suit, I'd consider that a rare event - I've worn
lots of GoreTex clothing over the years and haven't ripped anything yet.
Those fabrics are pretty tough and my GoreTex drysuit (Stolquist) is at
least that tough. Since the odds are a tad long, cut and fix later - this
shouldn't be a recurring cost.

Mike

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Brian Nystrom:

Latex socks are vastly superior to ankle seals.


I finally got socks, but a reservation still nags at me.
Namely, if I flood the suit I'll be unable to drain
water at the ankle cuffs.

Have you ever flooded your suit? Do you even know of anyone who has ever
flooded a suit? This is a common concern among paddlers, but I think
it's largely a red herring. It's more of a concern for WW paddlers than
for people like me who are sea kayakers, but it still seems to me that
the likelihood of it happening is not much higher than being struck by
lightning.