Why Optimax is not true DFI
 

Billgran wrote:
"Reggie Smithers" wrote in message
...
Bill,
As someone who does have detailed knowledge of Ficht with a larger than
average data base, have you found Ficht or Etec to have more than the
average problems? Is there any truth to the problem that some of Ficht
engines had problems related to trolling for extended periods?




Reggie,

About 8 years ago, in FICHT's 2nd year of production, the 1998 models of the
150 and 175hp had problems. I did not see these with my customers as we
setup the boats and ran them for an hour before delivering them. We did the
intital breakin and double checked for the correct prop. I did see problem
motors from other dealers that sent their customers to the dealership for
which I work. The '98 and '99 150-175 series had factory teams going around
the country installing upgrade kits and redesigned cylinder heads. In some
applications, the motors were troublesome, they were the ones with the 25"
shaft. The boat magazines wrote many articles on the problems and what the
factory was doing for fixes. At the same time in 1999, the 90-115 V4 FICHTS
and the 200-225 V6 FICHTS did NOT have the problems or bad reputation of the
150-175 hp versions. In 2000 the FICHT was redesigned and called FICHT Ram,
and that system is still being produced today. The 2000 and later FICHTS are
really good motors, that got even better when Bombardier took over the 2002
and later production.

There are months of reading about these if you want to spend your time
using Google, Yahoo, boating forums, etc. The problematic 150-175 motors
cast the bad name on all FICHTS and with misinformation that goes around the
Internet and the ignorance of the motors by some folks, 8 years later FICHT
has a bad connotation, something like Bayliner still having their stigma.

Do your research and be sure to check the credentials of anyone when you
read their posts. Almost every "nay-sayer" has never owned, worked on, been
around, or even has a grasp of the engine.

About the E-TECs, they are super motors and are proving themselves on crab
boats, commercial fishing boats, law enforcement, SeaTow, etc. We have
almost no warranty problems and much fewer problems than we do with
Yamaha's.

Bill Grannis
service manager



Bill,
Thanks for the detailed information.

--
Reggie
************************************************** *************
That's my story and I am sticking to it.

************************************************** *************

Why Optimax is not true DFI
 

Tom,

You asked about my FICHT. It is a 115 OMC motor. Hangs on a 16 Whaler
Dauntless.

Butch
"Billgran" wrote in message
...

"Reggie Smithers" wrote in message
...


Bill,
As someone who does have detailed knowledge of Ficht with a larger than
average data base, have you found Ficht or Etec to have more than the
average problems? Is there any truth to the problem that some of Ficht
engines had problems related to trolling for extended periods?




Reggie,

About 8 years ago, in FICHT's 2nd year of production, the 1998 models of
the 150 and 175hp had problems. I did not see these with my customers as
we setup the boats and ran them for an hour before delivering them. We did
the intital breakin and double checked for the correct prop. I did see
problem motors from other dealers that sent their customers to the
dealership for which I work. The '98 and '99 150-175 series had factory
teams going around the country installing upgrade kits and redesigned
cylinder heads. In some applications, the motors were troublesome, they
were the ones with the 25" shaft. The boat magazines wrote many articles
on the problems and what the factory was doing for fixes. At the same time
in 1999, the 90-115 V4 FICHTS and the 200-225 V6 FICHTS did NOT have the
problems or bad reputation of the 150-175 hp versions. In 2000 the FICHT
was redesigned and called FICHT Ram, and that system is still being
produced today. The 2000 and later FICHTS are really good motors, that got
even better when Bombardier took over the 2002 and later production.

There are months of reading about these if you want to spend your time
using Google, Yahoo, boating forums, etc. The problematic 150-175 motors
cast the bad name on all FICHTS and with misinformation that goes around
the Internet and the ignorance of the motors by some folks, 8 years later
FICHT has a bad connotation, something like Bayliner still having their
stigma.

Do your research and be sure to check the credentials of anyone when you
read their posts. Almost every "nay-sayer" has never owned, worked on,
been around, or even has a grasp of the engine.

About the E-TECs, they are super motors and are proving themselves on crab
boats, commercial fishing boats, law enforcement, SeaTow, etc. We have
almost no warranty problems and much fewer problems than we do with
Yamaha's.

Bill Grannis
service manager

Why Optimax is not true DFI
 

Billgran wrote:
"K. Smith" wrote in message
...


... eventually we got Bill to disassemble a Ficht injector & clock it up &
he was honest enough to come back & admit he'd been had).



Karen,

"You GOT me to dissassemble a FICHT injector ??????" You must be off your
rocker with that comment.


About the comment on the FICHT patents. Even the engineer Marcus Bell would
email me laughing that Karen from Australia could not even fathom that fuel
circulated thru the injector, even after many "lessons" to you trying to
make you see the light.

You are a looney.

Bill Grannis
service manager



Too late Bill you need to do some searching just as I posted the
supporting evidence that confirmed you ran away when OMC rolled into the
ditch which you had also denied here, you're not related to Krause are
you??? I mean you stuff even goes beyond a dealer!!!!

As for your Marcus claims I'm Ok with that it was a fair dinkum debate &
we were serious (glad you can't see some of the stuff I said about him
behind his back:-), but I still love him). Remember Marcus was on your
side & as it turned out he was also wrong about it???? I mean look what
happened when you deceived enough people to use them!!!! Unlike you he
at least had the brains & good grace to see & discuss the other side. At
that stage the Fichts were falling like flies, so he had not much
choice:-) By the time the rot was full on he'd departed I'd suggest
because you & the other dealer bully boys were doing as much as you
could to shut the open discussion down. (still sad about that) No doubt
you'll re-run that again but as then I'll just say what I say till it
happens again.


As I said I'm more than happy to stand on my record, these days of
course everybody comes out with how & why the DFIs fail but so far none
absolutely none predate my posts here.

I guess if I'm loony you should try it!!!!! We (that's me & my blokes
before you go mad) got the Ficht defects exactly right & if you'd or OMC
or anyone worth a bean, had listened they wouldn't have bought your
defective engines & saved themselves much heartache. Gee OMC could still
be here today!!!

So dismiss me again this time I don't care, but I'll crow again when
this latest escapade goes the same way & you run away & hide again. Like
then you think technical things can be resolved with a vote:-). It's
like Tom's fuel consumption dreams (religion??), you can all vote anyway
you want the outcome will not change at all just because you wish it to
or in your case so you can take a few more punters for money:-) You're
even running the same BS lines you ran with Ficht saying how many people
are using them with never a word about the failures??? Nothing changes
but hey that applies to lean at power with poor atomisation also:-)

Wake up Bill I know you're totally untrained but it's just rocket
science, you can't run lean mixtures in a closed chamber. Everyone has
wanted to since the 1930s but just like rockets the hardest part is
making sure the mixture is right & remains so even as the conditions
(pressures) change.

K

Why Optimax is not true DFI
 

Del Cecchi wrote:
Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:

On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 07:19:08 -0500, Reggie Smithers
wrote:


Harry Krause wrote:

K. Smith wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

-rick- wrote:


Harry Krause wrote:


What "failure rate" statistics can you cite to back up your
claim that
the engines "suffered way too high failure rates for
consumer usage"? Legitimate statistics, please, backed up by
some sort
of legitimate science, not your usual crap you extrapolate from
reading
about three incidents that took place on a hot day in August on an
unnamed lake and involving three guys working their way through
a keg
and bloodworms spread on crackers.


Are legitimate failure rate statistics publicly available for any
consumer item? The companies I've worked for held that data
pretty tightly.



Sure, at least partially. We've all encountered "recalls" with
various products, or at least read or heard about them.

But that's not my point. Ms. Smith is claiming a "way too high
failure rate," based upon nothing more than, basically, nothing.
How can you claim a rate is "too high" without any reliable
quantifying?


The evidence I gave was we all were told this by a dealer friend of
yours in this NG!!! What better evidence could you possibly ask
for??? again are you suggesting this particular dealer was nothing
but lying scum like you???



What I'm stating is that your propaganda is not based upon any
certified, verifiable, enumerated, qualified, or quantified data.



If that's what you're trying to say then just come out with it,
don't be shy.

Also it's clear that Brunswick are not putting any more money into
it & spending vast sums on the 4 strokes. That's the final nail as
far as I'm concerned.



When I bought my Opti in 1998, I read info from Brunswick which said
the Opti technology was a bridge to help the company meet emission
standards in the short term.



If one of your dealer buddies isn't enough for you then I can't
help you further


I'm not making the claim, you are. You need the help, not me.


Harry,
I can remember a very detailed discussion Karen had with some
engineering types who used to frequent this motley group. I thought
they agreed that there was and should be concern about the
lubrication of Fichts at trolling speed.



600+ something hours most at low speed on the ranger and no problems
related to oiling or cylinder wear. i did have a stator problem which
cascaded through the engine, but thats almost unheard of even of other
engines including fichts.

oh, and its an omc ficht.

the problem is that most of the folks, engineers or not, have no clue
about how the system works or doesnt work - mostly doesnt because the
assumptions they make are valuless, uninformed and strictly
speculation - in short, if you cant convince them with brilliance....

its an advanced technology which baffles some who think they know it
all, thus they have to rely on bull**** and bafflement to "make" their
points.

everybody else can buy merc optimaxs and verados and yamaha four
strokes, but they arent going to get the milage i do, the preformance
i do or the reliability i have received.

so im done with this - everybody can do what they want - ill be
laughing all the way to the fishing grounds - or the bank with my
incredibly efficient engines.


I'm sorry to provide a contradictory data point, courtesy of the folks
at Bass and Walleye Boats. In the 12/2005 issue they had the 200HP DFI
shootout where they compared the Optimax, HPDI, and Etec on identical
bass boats. In Optimum Fuel Economy, the Etec was last at 4.4 mpg,
compared to 5.5 on the HPDI and 5.8 for the Optimax. At WOT it was 3.7
for the etec, 4.2 for the merc, and 4.1 for the yamaha.

Top speeds were almost identical.

0-30 hole shot was 8.2 for the etec, 7.6 for the Optimax, and 6.7 for
the HPDI.

And list price was highest for the etec.

Note, the hulls were weighed and made to be exactly the same.

All setups were done by the bass cat factory folks

Here is a quote "After all the emissions and mileage hype from
Evinrude, we expected the E-Tec HO tr really put a hurtin' on the other
two when it came to the fuel fillup. Yet that was not the case at all."


Hi Del

Good to see you!!! this is pretty good for me to!!!, it's as if I
haven't aged even a single day!!! & mostly the same players even
spruiking the same BS.

As for the fuel consumption watch out for Tom & his highly technical
"bull" rejoinder:-) he thinks fuel consumption is sort of a mystical
thing, if you believe it, it might happen:-) True!!!!

His latest is a deceptive claim i.e. a 31ftr (E-Tec X 2) cruising at 35
mph on 11 gph!!! I calced it as easily as you will & that's asking for
300 prop HP all on 11 gph!!! The very best, highest tech diesels can't
even claim close to that:-)

He hasn't even tried to defend it; but hey I'm repeatedly asking &
waiting for the story; it will rival the dealers I suspect:-)

K

Why Optimax is not true DFI
 

Karen,
For me the fallacy in your argument is that over the years we have seen
numerous people make posts in rec.boats and the other boating NGs
whenever they feel they have been slighted by a manufacturer. I can not
remember one complaint about Ficht and Etec, even with the problems they
had initially.

I would still look at a 4 stroke and compare the weight, gas consumption
and sound levels between the 4 stroke and Etec, but I can not find
anything in the last few years that validates your premise.
--
Reggie
************************************************** *************
That's my story and I am sticking to it.

************************************************** *************

Why Optimax is not true DFI
 

Reggie Smithers wrote:

Karen,
For me the fallacy in your argument is that over the years we have seen
numerous people make posts in rec.boats and the other boating NGs
whenever they feel they have been slighted by a manufacturer. I can not
remember one complaint about Ficht and Etec, even with the problems they
had initially.

I would still look at a 4 stroke and compare the weight, gas consumption
and sound levels between the 4 stroke and Etec, but I can not find
anything in the last few years that validates your premise.

Honestly Reggie there have been heaps here in this NG, at the time there
were even Ficht specific boards, damn in texas apparently they were
putting up bill boards (how appropriate!!) saying Ficht sucks!! (don't
cross the good ol' boys) but you don't seem motivated to find them, you
claimed you couldn't find any failed E-Tecs so in 2 minutes I rustled up
pages of them for you, but you just ignored them. Same story with Matt
he claims to want to know but then .............. doesn't.

I know you want me to spoon feed you but it's OK I don't have anything
to prove, however note this is a re-run of Ficht using Ficht & you don't
even take the idiots to task!!!! What you think they'll be your
friends?? believe me when it happens again they'll dump you & run away
as they did last time, with your money also if you're silly enough.

What say you of the E-tec, 11gph @ 35mph??? from the king of the OT
posts, or when Del posts the actual news you sit back & let the world's
biggest non boating nuff nuff liar Krause come out with the wrong boat
story!!!;-) Damn they said that exact same thing about Ficht!!! I
promise you:-) when they had worn out the "it's the oil", "it's the
fuel", "it's the owner", they then said "it's the boat!!":-) Did you
like the fuel BS'ter's rejoinder?? "bull" Honestly this place is a hoot,
again thanks to all.



K

Why Optimax is not true DFI
 

K. Smith wrote:
Reggie Smithers wrote:

Karen,
For me the fallacy in your argument is that over the years we have
seen numerous people make posts in rec.boats and the other boating NGs
whenever they feel they have been slighted by a manufacturer. I can
not remember one complaint about Ficht and Etec, even with the
problems they had initially.

I would still look at a 4 stroke and compare the weight, gas consumption
and sound levels between the 4 stroke and Etec, but I can not find
anything in the last few years that validates your premise.

Honestly Reggie there have been heaps here in this NG, at the time there
were even Ficht specific boards, damn in texas apparently they were
putting up bill boards (how appropriate!!) saying Ficht sucks!! (don't
cross the good ol' boys) but you don't seem motivated to find them, you
claimed you couldn't find any failed E-Tecs so in 2 minutes I rustled up
pages of them for you, but you just ignored them. Same story with Matt
he claims to want to know but then .............. doesn't.

I know you want me to spoon feed you but it's OK I don't have anything
to prove, however note this is a re-run of Ficht using Ficht & you don't
even take the idiots to task!!!! What you think they'll be your
friends?? believe me when it happens again they'll dump you & run away
as they did last time, with your money also if you're silly enough.

What say you of the E-tec, 11gph @ 35mph??? from the king of the OT
posts, or when Del posts the actual news you sit back & let the world's
biggest non boating nuff nuff liar Krause come out with the wrong boat
story!!!;-) Damn they said that exact same thing about Ficht!!! I
promise you:-) when they had worn out the "it's the oil", "it's the
fuel", "it's the owner", they then said "it's the boat!!":-) Did you
like the fuel BS'ter's rejoinder?? "bull" Honestly this place is a hoot,
again thanks to all.



K
Karen,
I can find problems related to the 1998-2000 model years. I can not
find any on the newer models. As far as "making friends", I really
don't care if someone likes me or not, but I am not interested in
getting into a ****ing contest with anyone, since it does nothing to
further boating discussions. While some people might prefer to respond
to your posts with flames, I have always kept the discussion on topic.

Since these forums discussing the problems with the 2001-2005 Ficht/Etec
problems are readily available, can you point me to a few of them? You
should be able to find a few much quicker than it takes you to type your
average post.

--
Reggie
************************************************** *************
That's my story and I am sticking to it.

************************************************** *************

Why Optimax is not true DFI
 

you
claimed you couldn't find any failed E-Tecs so in 2 minutes I rustled up
pages of them for you, but you just ignored them. Same story with Matt
he claims to want to know but then .............. doesn't.

the pages you showed didnt convince me there are problems with ETec ..
the one claiming that several blew up at a tournament didnt have much
credibility to me ..

The other smaller issues I beleive but its nothing related to the 2DFI
technology ...

So far the Etec does seem to be holding up ... that doesnt mean the
fuel use claims are holding up to the expectations ... they really dont
seem to and there are some facts to substantiate that. Facts for
kabooms are still missing


Matt

Why Optimax is not true DFI
 

I agree but thats not the case for everybody ... the boating I do, I
cover a lot of distance ... 10-15% less range would be annoying to me
....

Matt

Why Optimax is not true DFI
 

On Tue, 07 Feb 2006 15:17:31 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

wrote:
you
claimed you couldn't find any failed E-Tecs so in 2 minutes I rustled up
pages of them for you, but you just ignored them. Same story with Matt
he claims to want to know but then .............. doesn't.

the pages you showed didnt convince me there are problems with ETec ..
the one claiming that several blew up at a tournament didnt have much
credibility to me ..

The other smaller issues I beleive but its nothing related to the 2DFI
technology ...

So far the Etec does seem to be holding up ... that doesnt mean the
fuel use claims are holding up to the expectations ... they really dont
seem to and there are some facts to substantiate that. Facts for
kabooms are still missing


Matt



When you have a high horsepower outboard or a pair of them pushing a
sportfishing boat, you're not overly concerned about which brand of
similar-power outboard might get a hair more MPG at a given speed. There
are just too many variables. If I burn $50 worth of gas on a given
outing, it isn't going to make any difference to me whether another
brand of outboard *might* do the same job on $43 worth of fuel. In fact,
about all that matters to me is that when I turn the key, the engine
starts instantly and runs properly until I return and my boating day is
over.

That $7 will buy a dozen bloodworms!
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************