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Ping: Harry K. et al attacking the bayliner
On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 17:20:04 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote: Skipper wrote: Nice explanation Chuck. The problem is, as you state, the lingering feelings about Bayliner, which may then have an effect on resale. Tom Fournier (Editor, The Marine Blue Book) wrote on 7/9/97: “FACT: Bayliners retain a higher percentage of their purchase price than do most other brands who compete in their size/price range.” -- Skipper I see Snipper is in dredge mode again, or is it still. Poor Fournier...he must rue the day he ever ran into Snipper. another troll -- 'Til next time, John H ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** |
Ping: Harry K. et al attacking the bayliner
On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 17:27:11 -0600, Skipper wrote:
Harry Krause wrote: Tom Fournier (Editor, The Marine Blue Book) wrote on 7/9/97: “FACT: Bayliners retain a higher percentage of their purchase price than do most other brands who compete in their size/price range.” -- 9 year old data. How enlightening. It wasn't accurate way back then, of course. Accurate facts 'n data have never been your strong suit, Krause. hooked -- 'Til next time, John H ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** |
Ping: Harry K. et al attacking the bayliner
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 10:14:05 -0500, Reggie Smithers
wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Shortwave Sportfishing wrote: On Thu, 2 Feb 2006 21:55:43 -0800, "Dene" wrote: But their reputation haunts them. heh - same with ficht - poor slobs never fully recovered, the whole product line was tainted by the failure of a specific groups of engines and thus the rep. unfortunate when that happens. look how long it took chrysler to recover and they still cant get past the whole dodge transmissions suck thing. Chrysler recovered? Wonder if Dodge transmissions are better now? I've seen some great deals on Caravan mini-vans lately....roughly the same price that I paid for my new 1995 Plymouth Voyager way back. Knock on wood...my three speed auto has been very reliable over 125,000 km. My wife really likes the PT Cruiser. The PT Cruiser is a very nice looking car. It seems to be very popular with teens and woman, sort of like the new VW Bug. When was the last time you saw a man driving one of the New VW Bugs? Today. It had "Geek Squad" on the side. Go for a ride in a PT Cruiser. I believe it's a Neon with a different body. It rides like a piece of junk. But they are kinda cute, especially tlhe convertibles. -- 'Til next time, John H ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** |
Ping: Harry K. et al attacking the bayliner
"JohnH" wrote in message ... On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 17:20:04 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: Skipper wrote: Nice explanation Chuck. The problem is, as you state, the lingering feelings about Bayliner, which may then have an effect on resale. Tom Fournier (Editor, The Marine Blue Book) wrote on 7/9/97: "FACT: Bayliners retain a higher percentage of their purchase price than do most other brands who compete in their size/price range." -- Skipper I see Snipper is in dredge mode again, or is it still. Poor Fournier...he must rue the day he ever ran into Snipper. another troll -- 'Til next time, John H ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** This new mission of yours is not at all flattering for you. You can do better to contribute to this NG John. |
Ping: Harry K. et al attacking the bayliner
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Ping: Harry K. et al attacking the bayliner
On Thu, 2 Feb 2006 19:57:43 -0500, "Bert Robbins" wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Bryan wrote: Harry, I haven't been around long enough to know the history behind the animosity between you (and others) and Skipper. I do not want to talk about that! What I do want to know is why the personal attack on his boat, a bayliner, over and over. For example, "10-12 acres. Perfect size for Skip and that Bayliner." From the tone of the post I pulled the quote from, and others that I've read, I'm interpreting the bayliner comment as a slur on the boat. I understand that each of us has our boat and they're all different, but each gets us into the water whether it's a small lake with a no wake limit or the limitless ocean. So I'm wondering why the relentless attack on the make or model of a boat. If I've misinterpreted what I've been reading, just let me know, otherwise I'm curious about the motivation for the repetitive attacks, or slurs. Bryan Sea Ray 185 Sport My comments have nothing to do with Bayliners, really, but everything to to with Skipper's years of overblown claims for the "quality" of his particular boat. It is true, however, that the older Bayliners were more than a little deficient in the quality area, but the newer ones are better than the older ones. From what I have seen, the newer Bayliners are just about average now. Plain and simple, Harry is an asshole, Chuck Gould is an arrogant SOB. Bert, you'd be very welcomed in a.politics. Why not take your crap over there. -- 'Til next time, John H ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** |
Ping: Harry K. et al attacking the bayliner
wrote in message oups.com... Bert Robbins wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Bryan wrote: Harry, I haven't been around long enough to know the history behind the animosity between you (and others) and Skipper. I do not want to talk about that! What I do want to know is why the personal attack on his boat, a bayliner, over and over. For example, "10-12 acres. Perfect size for Skip and that Bayliner." From the tone of the post I pulled the quote from, and others that I've read, I'm interpreting the bayliner comment as a slur on the boat. I understand that each of us has our boat and they're all different, but each gets us into the water whether it's a small lake with a no wake limit or the limitless ocean. So I'm wondering why the relentless attack on the make or model of a boat. If I've misinterpreted what I've been reading, just let me know, otherwise I'm curious about the motivation for the repetitive attacks, or slurs. Bryan Sea Ray 185 Sport My comments have nothing to do with Bayliners, really, but everything to to with Skipper's years of overblown claims for the "quality" of his particular boat. It is true, however, that the older Bayliners were more than a little deficient in the quality area, but the newer ones are better than the older ones. From what I have seen, the newer Bayliners are just about average now. Plain and simple, Harry is an asshole, Chuck Gould is an arrogant SOB. Your inflammatory comments and use of bad language does nothing for your integrity. May I suggest you take the tone of the rest of the group? Kevin, you may suggest whatever you want. I will do what I want when I want! |
Ping: Harry K. et al attacking the bayliner
"Bryan" wrote in message . net... "Dene" wrote in message . .. My two bits. I'd rather put my trust in a company that is trying hard vs. a company that is resting on it's laurels. SeaRay comes to mind, in that respect. Ouch! Bryan Sea Ray 185 Sport Don't mean to pinch. Sea Ray's are fine boats but I don't believe they are the best bang for the buck. -Greg |
Ping: Harry K. et al attacking the bayliner
"Dene" wrote in message . .. "Bryan" wrote in message . net... "Dene" wrote in message . .. My two bits. I'd rather put my trust in a company that is trying hard vs. a company that is resting on it's laurels. SeaRay comes to mind, in that respect. Ouch! Bryan Sea Ray 185 Sport Don't mean to pinch. Sea Ray's are fine boats but I don't believe they are the best bang for the buck. -Greg Pinch away. Right or wrong, my boat means time on the water with my kids and you can't put a price on that! |
Ping: Harry K. et al attacking the bayliner
The most common misconception about the PT Cruiser is that it's built
on the Neon chasis. It is not. The original prototype displayed in car shows was built on a Neon chasis, but when it went in to production they developed a new chasis (actually, a unibody). http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl..._April/ai_6516... The GT has a nice tight suspension, anti-lock brakes, traction control, and a powerful 215 HP turbo charged engine which will leave the Forrester in the dust. And it's not just a bolt-on turbo. the engine is beefed up where needed, with oil sprayers and intercooler. It will out accelerate a a 1993 Jaguar XJS Coupe, a 1989 Porsche 944 and a 1967 Ford V8 Mustang. I don't know that it would be good for towing boats since it's only rated at 1,000 lb for towing. But If you are towing less that 1,000 lb, I would think the GT would do a good job because it has a hefty 245 ft-lbs of torque. For comparison, a 6 cyl. 4.0 liter Ford Ranger (it's biggest engine) has 207 hp and 238 ft-lb of torque. Although it's 8 inches shorter than a Nissan Sentra (169 vs 177 inches), "Its 121.5 cubic feet of interior volume is comparable to that of large cars such as the Mercedes-Benz S-Class or Lincoln Town Car." http://www.automotive.com/reviews/12...iser/interior/ The maximum cargo capacity of 64.2 cu. ft. is greater than some SUVs, such as the Chevy Blazer (60.6 CF) Mitsubishi Outlander (60.3 CF), Saturn Vue (63.8 CF), Suzuki Grand Vitara (50.2 CF). Plenty of room for cargo. You can fit a load of 8 foot long 2X4s in it and still close the hatch. Weak points of the PT Cruiser: turning radius and gas mileage. |
Ping: Harry K. et al attacking the bayliner
The problem with the PT apears to be towing capacity (1,000 lbs), not
the 4 cylinder engine. The PT Cruiser Turbocharged GT has more horsepower than most V6 pickup trucks. The 4 Cylinder PT Cruiser has practically the same HP as the Ford's F-150 V8... that's V-EIGHT, not V-SIX !!! Ford F-150 with a 4.6 L V8 has 231 HP PT Cruiser GT with a 2.4 L 4 cylinder has 230 HP The F-150 has more torque (293 vs 245), but the PT Cruiser GT still beats the torque of most 6 cylinder pickups, including the Ford Ranger with it's upgraded 4 liter V6. Torque comparison (from Edmunds.com): Ford Ranger 3 liter V6 - 180 lb-ft @ 3950 RPM Jeep Wrangler 4 liter inline 6 - 235 lb-ft @ 3200 RPM Dodge Durango 3.7 liter V6 - 235 ft-lb @ 4000 RPM Ford Ranger 4 liter V6 - 238 ft-lb @ 3000 RPM PT Cruiser GT 4 Cylinder 2.4 liter Turbo - 245 ft-lb @ 2800 RPM Ford F-150 8 Cylinder V-8 4.6 liter - 293 ft-lb @ 3500 RPM I still don't think the PT would be good for towing a big boat, but don't assume 4 cylinder means low power. |
Ping: Harry K. et al attacking the bayliner
"Bryan" wrote in message ... "Dene" wrote in message . .. "Bryan" wrote in message . net... "Dene" wrote in message . .. My two bits. I'd rather put my trust in a company that is trying hard vs. a company that is resting on it's laurels. SeaRay comes to mind, in that respect. Ouch! Bryan Sea Ray 185 Sport Don't mean to pinch. Sea Ray's are fine boats but I don't believe they are the best bang for the buck. -Greg Pinch away. Right or wrong, my boat means time on the water with my kids and you can't put a price on that! Agree. I have a '92 18 foot Reinell 181 for that very purpose, namely putting my six kids behind it on a sea biscuit and scaring the tarnation out of them. Probably not a highly rated boat when I bought it in '94 but I've taken good care of it, dry storing it except in use. She's never given me a lick of problems and even more important, she's all mine. Unlike this Maxum 2400 SCR I'm "buying" for 28k this week, assuming it passes the survey. http://tinyurl.com/c6orm This boat is a year round mom and pop boat, interest tax deductible as our 2nd home. Kids are allowed, but only for 15 mins. ; Name of the boat will be, "She Said Yes." (in more ways than one). ; -Greg |
Ping: Harry K. et al attacking the bayliner
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Ping: Harry K. et al attacking the bayliner
"Dene" wrote in message ... Agree. I have a '92 18 foot Reinell 181 for that very purpose, namely putting my six kids behind it on a sea biscuit and scaring the tarnation out of them. Probably not a highly rated boat when I bought it in '94 but I've taken good care of it, dry storing it except in use. She's never given me a lick of problems and even more important, she's all mine. Unlike this Maxum 2400 SCR I'm "buying" for 28k this week, assuming it passes the survey. http://tinyurl.com/c6orm This boat is a year round mom and pop boat, interest tax deductible as our 2nd home. Kids are allowed, but only for 15 mins. ; Name of the boat will be, "She Said Yes." (in more ways than one). ; -Greg My intro to boating has put me on the same track: imagining our next boat that my wife and I can use for overnighters. Good luck with your survey! |
Ping: Harry K. et al attacking the bayliner
Rick,
I don't know where they get 5.5 sec for the Forrester XT. Motorweek has the XT at 6.2 seconds, and the PT Cruiser at 6.7 seconds. http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2210a.shtml http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2250.shtml The Forrester was tested with a 5-speed manual transmission, and the PT Cruiser was tested with an automatic transmission. A manual transmission should take at least 1/2 second (maybe 1 second) off the PT Cruiser's time, bringing it down to about 5.7-6.2 seconds. Those times were all for the older 220 HP engine. The newly tuned 230 HP engine should brings the PT Cruiser GT on par with the Forrester XT. They both have 230 HP, but the PT Cruiser hase 245 ft-lb of torque to the Forrester XTs 235 ft-lb. The PT cruiser GT weighs 3152 lbs. The Forrester is at 3315 lbs. Of course, the PT Cruiser costs about $6,000 less than the Forrester XT, but the Forrester has All Wheel Drive. I will concede that the PT would not leave the Forrester XT in the dust. I was thinking of the standard Forrester. |
Ping: Harry K. et al attacking the bayliner
Don,
That's agrees with what I was saying, it isn't always the engine size that determines towing capacity. The PT Cruiser has a much more powerful engine than the Forrester X (230 vs 173 HP), but the PT only has a 1,000 lb towing capacity. Please don't misunderstand what I was saying before. I don't think the PT Cruiser is good for towing big boats. I was just saying that it wasn't the 4 cyl engine that was the problem. The lower powered Forrester with 4 cyl has a higher towing rating. Or maybe the manufacturers arbitrarily select the towing rating, and the Forrester will burn out fast towing 2500 lbs. ??? |
Ping: Harry K. et al attacking the bayliner
Here is some information I got from another site regarding the PT
Cruiiser and towing (it probably applies to many small cars with high HP and turbo): Many big rig trucks have turbo-diesels, but a turbo diesel is a different animal than a turbo gasoline HP engine. One is designed to work under heavy loads for long periods of time, the other for short bursts of power. While HP is good, low-to-midrange torque is what pulls the trailer. Comparing typical full load numbers isn't the best way to check for this. These numbers are from a dyno pull with a load at full throttle. Sounds good, but this is very short term. It doesn't match a long hill at speed. Weight and size make good tow rigs. The PT Cruiser could have 800hp and 900 lb/ft of torque and it would still suck at towing. It doesn't have enough weight/mass to control anything with weight. You also want something with lots of cooling and brakes. These are not areas where the PT has a surplus. The suspension and driveline must be able to support and pull the load. The PT suspension isn't designed for big loads, and while a few might disagree, RWD is the best way to tow. A frame is good, but not necessary. Unfortunately, darn near all unibody cars are not designed with a real strong rear area to attach tow equipment. |
Ping: Harry K. et al attacking the bayliner
"Bryan" wrote in message . com... "Dene" wrote in message ... Agree. I have a '92 18 foot Reinell 181 for that very purpose, namely putting my six kids behind it on a sea biscuit and scaring the tarnation out of them. Probably not a highly rated boat when I bought it in '94 but I've taken good care of it, dry storing it except in use. She's never given me a lick of problems and even more important, she's all mine. Unlike this Maxum 2400 SCR I'm "buying" for 28k this week, assuming it passes the survey. http://tinyurl.com/c6orm This boat is a year round mom and pop boat, interest tax deductible as our 2nd home. Kids are allowed, but only for 15 mins. ; Name of the boat will be, "She Said Yes." (in more ways than one). ; -Greg My intro to boating has put me on the same track: imagining our next boat that my wife and I can use for overnighters. Good luck with your survey! Survey passed. Bought. Now I own 3 boats. Any interest in my previous 25 footer. ; -Greg |
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