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It was too foggy all day so I allowed my 9 year old daughter to fish
from the dock. I am no fisherman and normally have no tackle but I had found a reel in the coastal cleanup a couple monthsa ago. I cannot identify fish and have no idea what is legal or not. I do know that we do not need a license to fish from a dock in salt water. However, I bought some hooks, sinkers and shrimp for bait and she fished ALL day with no luck. She was seriously determined and finally around 4:00 pm, suddenly she caught a largish fish with a spot on its tail. Another sailor identified it as a Redfish and I happen to know there is a size limit on them but nobody present anywhere nearby knew what it was. I had to try to explain to my tearful daughter that we could get in trouble for keeping it (I later learned the minimum size is 18" and this looked larger) as I have heard horror stories of encounters with the marine patrol over Redfish. I told her to try for something else (I was hoping for something like a yellowtail that I know is legal) but she caught another Redfish which I threw back with her crying and asking why. Damn, then she caught another, threw it back with her crying in frustration. CRAP, she catches another pestilential Redfish but this one had swallowed the hook. I could not get the hook out even with needle nose pliers without serious damage to the fish that would kill it. Fortunately, we were out of bait but what to do wiht the dying Redfish? It was smaller than the first three and my personal ethic says dont kill it unless you will eat it so I hid it under my coat and put it in the car. What did my daughter learn from this experience with authority? Does my daughter really have to carry a book of outdoor regs just to fish from a dock? Is there a way to write or enforce wildlife laws that does not turn 9 yr olds into anarchists? |
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wrote in message oups.com... It was too foggy all day so I allowed my 9 year old daughter to fish from the dock. I am no fisherman and normally have no tackle but I had found a reel in the coastal cleanup a couple monthsa ago. I cannot identify fish and have no idea what is legal or not. I do know that we do not need a license to fish from a dock in salt water. However, I bought some hooks, sinkers and shrimp for bait and she fished ALL day with no luck. She was seriously determined and finally around 4:00 pm, suddenly she caught a largish fish with a spot on its tail. Another sailor identified it as a Redfish and I happen to know there is a size limit on them but nobody present anywhere nearby knew what it was. I had to try to explain to my tearful daughter that we could get in trouble for keeping it (I later learned the minimum size is 18" and this looked larger) as I have heard horror stories of encounters with the marine patrol over Redfish. I told her to try for something else (I was hoping for something like a yellowtail that I know is legal) but she caught another Redfish which I threw back with her crying and asking why. Damn, then she caught another, threw it back with her crying in frustration. CRAP, she catches another pestilential Redfish but this one had swallowed the hook. I could not get the hook out even with needle nose pliers without serious damage to the fish that would kill it. Fortunately, we were out of bait but what to do wiht the dying Redfish? It was smaller than the first three and my personal ethic says dont kill it unless you will eat it so I hid it under my coat and put it in the car. What did my daughter learn from this experience with authority? Does my daughter really have to carry a book of outdoor regs just to fish from a dock? Is there a way to write or enforce wildlife laws that does not turn 9 yr olds into anarchists? Dude, You fear law too seriously. Remember, law is written to protect you, not make you fear. Dan |
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Two days ago some friends and I caught several Reds. Some were outside the
slot and had to be released. At least in Alabama we are allowed three Reds per day one of which may be oversized. But the point I want to make is that some of the fish we were required to release were deeply hooked to the point that it would probably have killed them to get them off the hook. Our solution was to cut the leader at the fish's mouth in hopes that it would survive. Hooks and leader are cheap. Catching Reds is priceless. Butch wrote in message oups.com... It was too foggy all day so I allowed my 9 year old daughter to fish from the dock. I am no fisherman and normally have no tackle but I had found a reel in the coastal cleanup a couple monthsa ago. I cannot identify fish and have no idea what is legal or not. I do know that we do not need a license to fish from a dock in salt water. However, I bought some hooks, sinkers and shrimp for bait and she fished ALL day with no luck. She was seriously determined and finally around 4:00 pm, suddenly she caught a largish fish with a spot on its tail. Another sailor identified it as a Redfish and I happen to know there is a size limit on them but nobody present anywhere nearby knew what it was. I had to try to explain to my tearful daughter that we could get in trouble for keeping it (I later learned the minimum size is 18" and this looked larger) as I have heard horror stories of encounters with the marine patrol over Redfish. I told her to try for something else (I was hoping for something like a yellowtail that I know is legal) but she caught another Redfish which I threw back with her crying and asking why. Damn, then she caught another, threw it back with her crying in frustration. CRAP, she catches another pestilential Redfish but this one had swallowed the hook. I could not get the hook out even with needle nose pliers without serious damage to the fish that would kill it. Fortunately, we were out of bait but what to do wiht the dying Redfish? It was smaller than the first three and my personal ethic says dont kill it unless you will eat it so I hid it under my coat and put it in the car. What did my daughter learn from this experience with authority? Does my daughter really have to carry a book of outdoor regs just to fish from a dock? Is there a way to write or enforce wildlife laws that does not turn 9 yr olds into anarchists? |
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I was not fishing for reds, normally we just catch yellowtails from the
dock. As far as posted fishing regulations, I had to drive 10 miles to buy bait and it never occured to me that she would catch Redfish. This place has some civilization but no stores or other places where the regs are posted. I was using a very light casting reel made for very small fish and have no idea how to rig anything other than a simple hook and split shot sinkers. She got excited cuz on New Yrs eve, we were at a party at the dock and she was trying to fish with Hors Doevres (ham) when she saw all the mullet jumping. I told her that mullet were vegetarians and wouldnt take any meat so she wanted to fish with a cucumber. She finally caught a catfish using ham but it got away. |
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Harry:
Can you translate what you wrote on your next to last post for a non-fisherman? I have no idea what you said. I stopped at the grocery store and bought a few filets of Flounder. It has been many years since i filleted a fish and I do not have a fillet knife. However my knives are sharp and I did do some fillets many yrs ago so it wasnt a total hack job. |
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"Harry Krause" wrote in message Ignorance of the law is no excuse, especially in Florida, where the rules and regs regarding redfish are in the news all the time, and the information is available just about everywhere. Must be an election year. Libs getting "tough on crime." |
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On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 00:21:44 GMT, "Butch Davis" wrote:
Two days ago some friends and I caught several Reds. Some were outside the slot and had to be released. At least in Alabama we are allowed three Reds per day one of which may be oversized. But the point I want to make is that some of the fish we were required to release were deeply hooked to the point that it would probably have killed them to get them off the hook. Our solution was to cut the leader at the fish's mouth in hopes that it would survive. Hooks and leader are cheap. Catching Reds is priceless. Butch wrote in message roups.com... It was too foggy all day so I allowed my 9 year old daughter to fish from the dock. I am no fisherman and normally have no tackle but I had found a reel in the coastal cleanup a couple monthsa ago. I cannot identify fish and have no idea what is legal or not. I do know that we do not need a license to fish from a dock in salt water. However, I bought some hooks, sinkers and shrimp for bait and she fished ALL day with no luck. She was seriously determined and finally around 4:00 pm, suddenly she caught a largish fish with a spot on its tail. Another sailor identified it as a Redfish and I happen to know there is a size limit on them but nobody present anywhere nearby knew what it was. I had to try to explain to my tearful daughter that we could get in trouble for keeping it (I later learned the minimum size is 18" and this looked larger) as I have heard horror stories of encounters with the marine patrol over Redfish. I told her to try for something else (I was hoping for something like a yellowtail that I know is legal) but she caught another Redfish which I threw back with her crying and asking why. Damn, then she caught another, threw it back with her crying in frustration. CRAP, she catches another pestilential Redfish but this one had swallowed the hook. I could not get the hook out even with needle nose pliers without serious damage to the fish that would kill it. Fortunately, we were out of bait but what to do wiht the dying Redfish? It was smaller than the first three and my personal ethic says dont kill it unless you will eat it so I hid it under my coat and put it in the car. What did my daughter learn from this experience with authority? Does my daughter really have to carry a book of outdoor regs just to fish from a dock? Is there a way to write or enforce wildlife laws that does not turn 9 yr olds into anarchists? Why not use circle hooks? We have the same problem up here with rockfish (striped bass) which love to swallow the bait. With a circle hook, the bait will pull out of the stomach and the hook will catch in the corner of the mouth when the fish tries to turn away from the line. Circle hooks take some patience, but they're very effective at leaving the fish alive upon release. Gut hooked fish have a low survival rate, whether or not the hook and leader are left in. -- John H. "Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it." Rene Descartes |
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Am gonna haveta get a copy of the fishin regs. She is now so excited I
promised we'd fish instead of sail next weekend. |
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wrote in message oups.com... What did my daughter learn from this experience with authority? To become better informed about the rules and regulations of the sport in which she is participating. Does my daughter really have to carry a book of outdoor regs just to fish from a dock? Yes. They're free in any tackle shop...or available to print out off the internet. Is there a way to write or enforce wildlife laws that does not turn 9 yr olds into anarchists? A dad sneaking out an undersized fish is the kind of stuff that turns 9 year olds into anarchists. The regulations don't do it. |
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" JimH" wrote in message . .. "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... wrote: It was too foggy all day so I allowed my 9 year old daughter to fish from the dock. I am no fisherman and normally have no tackle but I had found a reel in the coastal cleanup a couple monthsa ago. I cannot identify fish and have no idea what is legal or not. I do know that we do not need a license to fish from a dock in salt water. However, I bought some hooks, sinkers and shrimp for bait and she fished ALL day with no luck. She was seriously determined and finally around 4:00 pm, suddenly she caught a largish fish with a spot on its tail. Another sailor identified it as a Redfish and I happen to know there is a size limit on them but nobody present anywhere nearby knew what it was. I had to try to explain to my tearful daughter that we could get in trouble for keeping it (I later learned the minimum size is 18" and this looked larger) as I have heard horror stories of encounters with the marine patrol over Redfish. I told her to try for something else (I was hoping for something like a yellowtail that I know is legal) but she caught another Redfish which I threw back with her crying and asking why. Damn, then she caught another, threw it back with her crying in frustration. CRAP, she catches another pestilential Redfish but this one had swallowed the hook. I could not get the hook out even with needle nose pliers without serious damage to the fish that would kill it. Fortunately, we were out of bait but what to do wiht the dying Redfish? It was smaller than the first three and my personal ethic says dont kill it unless you will eat it so I hid it under my coat and put it in the car. What did my daughter learn from this experience with authority? Does my daughter really have to carry a book of outdoor regs just to fish from a dock? Is there a way to write or enforce wildlife laws that does not turn 9 yr olds into anarchists? Oh, puh-lease. The redfish slot limits in Florida are available on measuring sticks available free from almost any bait shop. There's no excuse to be ignorant if you are going fishing. Also, if you are fishing for reds, you should be using small leadheads tipped with shrimp or circle hooks that catch in the corner of the fish's mouth so you can easily release it. Don't fish from your boat without a license. I guess you missed this part of his post: "I am no fisherman". Why the negative reply to a nice story Harry? The minute he and his daughter stepped on the pier with fishing poles, they were "fisherman". Fishing is a regulated sport. Learn the rules before you participate. |
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" JimH" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... wrote: It was too foggy all day so I allowed my 9 year old daughter to fish from the dock. I am no fisherman and normally have no tackle but I had found a reel in the coastal cleanup a couple monthsa ago. I cannot identify fish and have no idea what is legal or not. I do know that we do not need a license to fish from a dock in salt water. However, I bought some hooks, sinkers and shrimp for bait and she fished ALL day with no luck. She was seriously determined and finally around 4:00 pm, suddenly she caught a largish fish with a spot on its tail. Another sailor identified it as a Redfish and I happen to know there is a size limit on them but nobody present anywhere nearby knew what it was. I had to try to explain to my tearful daughter that we could get in trouble for keeping it (I later learned the minimum size is 18" and this looked larger) as I have heard horror stories of encounters with the marine patrol over Redfish. I told her to try for something else (I was hoping for something like a yellowtail that I know is legal) but she caught another Redfish which I threw back with her crying and asking why. Damn, then she caught another, threw it back with her crying in frustration. CRAP, she catches another pestilential Redfish but this one had swallowed the hook. I could not get the hook out even with needle nose pliers without serious damage to the fish that would kill it. Fortunately, we were out of bait but what to do wiht the dying Redfish? It was smaller than the first three and my personal ethic says dont kill it unless you will eat it so I hid it under my coat and put it in the car. What did my daughter learn from this experience with authority? Does my daughter really have to carry a book of outdoor regs just to fish from a dock? Is there a way to write or enforce wildlife laws that does not turn 9 yr olds into anarchists? Oh, puh-lease. The redfish slot limits in Florida are available on measuring sticks available free from almost any bait shop. There's no excuse to be ignorant if you are going fishing. Also, if you are fishing for reds, you should be using small leadheads tipped with shrimp or circle hooks that catch in the corner of the fish's mouth so you can easily release it. Don't fish from your boat without a license. I guess you missed this part of his post: "I am no fisherman". Why the negative reply to a nice story Harry? BTW: I would have thrown the fish back if I had no plans to eat it. It would be food for the gulls. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, especially in Florida, where the rules and regs regarding redfish are in the news all the time, and the information is available just about everywhere. Where did he break the rules Harry? He didn't know the slot size limit for redfish, and had no way to measure it. He may or may not have broken the law when he sneaked that fish off the dock under his coat. Regardless, sneaking a fish under your coat on the way to the car sets a poor example to the daughter. He presumed guilt...or else why "hide" it? |
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wrote in message oups.com... I do know that we do not need a license to fish from a dock in salt water. That's only true if you're a resident of Florida...or if the pier that you're fishing from has a blanket license that covers everybody fishing from it. Non-residents need a license anytime they're fishing. Are you a Florida resident? |
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"NOYB" wrote in message nk.net... wrote in message oups.com... I do know that we do not need a license to fish from a dock in salt water. That's only true if you're a resident of Florida...or if the pier that you're fishing from has a blanket license that covers everybody fishing from it. Non-residents need a license anytime they're fishing. Are you a Florida resident? There is probably an age requirement. 9 years old most likely does not require a license, resident or not. |
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NOYB strikes me as being the kind of blathering moron that gives
authority such a bad reputation. I did the right thing and neither you or any other brownosing self appointed expert can tell me or her anything different. Fishing rules were made to keep the fish from being overfished, if you think they should be enforced just to make a point of harassing a 9 yr old then you are a sicko. The fish was gonna die, we ate it, tough **** asshole. |
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On 1 Jan 2006 21:01:12 -0800, "
wrote: NOYB strikes me as being the kind of blathering moron that gives authority such a bad reputation. I did the right thing and neither you or any other brownosing self appointed expert can tell me or her anything different. Fishing rules were made to keep the fish from being overfished, if you think they should be enforced just to make a point of harassing a 9 yr old then you are a sicko. The fish was gonna die, we ate it, tough **** asshole. Sometimes it's hard, but we are *really* trying to keep the name-calling out of here. NOYB is one who lives and fishes in Florida, and is concerned with the rules and regulations in his home state. I get *really* ****ed when I see someone breaking the rules for rockfish in the Chesapeake Bay. A couple years ago I had a kid visiting from Belarus. He was 10. We went fishing. We must have caught ten or so rockfish, all within two inches of being legal (18"). He was totally ****ed seeing every fish he caught thrown back, when only one of them would have fed his whole family! If the fish was going to die, then the crabs would have fed. -- John H. "Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it." Rene Descartes |
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"NOYB" wrote in message nk.net... wrote in message oups.com... I do know that we do not need a license to fish from a dock in salt water. That's only true if you're a resident of Florida...or if the pier that you're fishing from has a blanket license that covers everybody fishing from it. Non-residents need a license anytime they're fishing. Are you a Florida resident? At Point Lookout, MD you need a license to fish off of the Potomac River side of the pier but, on the Chesapeake Bay side of the pier you don't need a fishing license. But, if your hook drifts to the river side you are going to need a fishing license. |
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wrote in message oups.com... NOYB strikes me as being the kind of blathering moron that gives authority such a bad reputation. I did the right thing and neither you or any other brownosing self appointed expert can tell me or her anything different. Fishing rules were made to keep the fish from being overfished, if you think they should be enforced just to make a point of harassing a 9 yr old then you are a sicko. The fish was gonna die, we ate it, tough **** asshole. Rules and laws are in place to enable a level playing field. Your lack of understanding of palying fair and by the rules in fishing might warp your daughter's sense of fairness for the rest of her life. Going 1 MPH over the speed limit is illegal whether you get caught or not. |
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Gene Kearns wrote: (Keywords: ; Expiry: ; Reply: ) On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 03:53:17 GMT in rec.boats, NOYB penned the following thoughts: wrote in message roups.com... I do know that we do not need a license to fish from a dock in salt water. That's only true if you're a resident of Florida...or if the pier that you're fishing from has a blanket license that covers everybody fishing from it. Non-residents need a license anytime they're fishing. Are you a Florida resident? Untrue. You don't need a sal****er license in FL if you are a citizen fishing from a structure fixed to land. http://taxcol.martin.fl.us/fishing.asp I think all states on the Atlantic Coast now require sal****er licenses.... excepting two or three. I don't think DE has one, not sure about NJ, and NC will have one in 2007. Anybody know if I missed one? The goal is for all of the states to have licensing... We have to buy Federal licenses, now, for HMS..... -- Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC. http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/ Homepage* http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Agent Version 3.2 Build 806 Yes, I am a real Florida resident (5th generation) and not a transplant. Furhtermore, "ignorance of the law is no excuse" is nonsense. For example, if you missed an arcane part of the tax code that hardly anybody knew and you ended up losing your house you'd be justifiably ****ed. Laws are meant to be applied intelligently, not blindly as absolutes rarely make sense. I have no problem with the law, it is the absolute enforcement of such when enforcement does more harm than good that I dislike. I would hope the wildlife officer would use discretion when enforcing the law but my experience with the Fl Marine Patrol gives me little hope for that. My experience says that it is best to hide ALL activities from law enforcement people lest they find some excuse to cite you. |
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On Mon, 2 Jan 2006 09:06:43 -0500, "Bert Robbins" wrote:
"NOYB" wrote in message ink.net... wrote in message oups.com... I do know that we do not need a license to fish from a dock in salt water. That's only true if you're a resident of Florida...or if the pier that you're fishing from has a blanket license that covers everybody fishing from it. Non-residents need a license anytime they're fishing. Are you a Florida resident? At Point Lookout, MD you need a license to fish off of the Potomac River side of the pier but, on the Chesapeake Bay side of the pier you don't need a fishing license. But, if your hook drifts to the river side you are going to need a fishing license. Unless I'm reading this wrong, you need a license to fish in the Bay, if over 16 years old: ************************************************** ***************** GENERAL INFORMATION ABOUT SPORT FISHING AND CRABBING LICENSES IN MARYLAND *NOTE: Individuals under the age of 16 are not required to obtain a license to sport fish/crab. They can, however, purchase a recreational crab license if they desire to catch the bushel of crabs allowed with that license. * Non-Tidal/Freshwater Fishing License Information: o Resident License: $10.50 Allows Maryland residents to fish in the fresh waters of Maryland from January 1 through December 31. o Resident Senior Consolidated License: $5.00 Allows Maryland residents who are 65 years of age or older, or will become 65 years of age in the current calendar year, to fish in the fresh waters of Maryland (including trout) and in the Chesapeake Bay and it’s tributaries from January 1 through December 31. A trout stamp is not required. o Resident 5-day Non-tidal License: $7.50 Allows Maryland residents to fish the fresh waters of Maryland for 5 consecutive fishing days. o Non-Resident Non-tidal License: Fee varies by state. See link below for fee chart. Allows a non-resident to fish in the fresh waters of Maryland from January 1 through December 31. o Non-Resident 5-day Non-tidal License: Fee varies by state. See link below for fee chart. Allows a non-resident to fish in the fresh waters of Maryland for 5 consecutive fishing days. o Non-Resident 3 day Non-tidal License: Fee varies by state. See link below for fee chart. Allows a non-resident to fish in the fresh waters of Maryland for 3 consecutive fishing days. o Trout Stamp: Resident/Non-Resident: $5.00 Allows anyone 16 years of age or older to fish in any special catch and return trout management area and to possess trout taken from non-tidal waters of Maryland. *If you have the Resident Senior Consolidated License, this stamp is not required. o Resident/Non-Resident License for the Blind: Complimentary Allows a blind resident or non-resident to fish tidal and fresh waters of Maryland from January 1 through December 31. o DAV/POW Complimentary Non-Tidal License: Complimentary Allows Maryland residents who are former prisoners of war or 100% service connected disabled veterans to fish in the fresh waters of Maryland from January 1 through December 31. The applicant for a complimentary license must furnish a letter of certification from the Veteran’s Administration with their initial application. o Replacement Non-Tidal Licenses: Resident/Non-Resident: $1.00 o Replacement Trout Stamp: Resident/Non-Resident: $1.00 + Replacement licenses are issued only at the DNR Regional Service Centers. Contact your local service center for further information. Locate a Service Center (http://www.dnr.state.md.us/service/center.htm) Non-Resident Non-Tidal Fishing License Fees (http://www.dnr.state.md.us/service/fishingcost.asp) Non-Tidal Fishing Rules, Regulations and Seasons (http://www.dnr.state.md.us/fisheries.../regindex.html) * Tidal/Bay Sport Fishing License Information: o Resident License: $9.00 Allows Maryland residents to fish in the Chesapeake Bay and it’s tributaries from January 1 through December 31. o Resident Senior Consolidated License: $5.00 Allows Maryland residents who are 65 years of age or older, or will become 65 years of age in the current calendar year, to fish in the fresh waters of Maryland (including trout) and in the Chesapeake Bay and it’s tributaries from January 1 through December 31. A trout stamp is not required. o Resident 5-Day Bay Sport License: $6.00 Allows Maryland residents to fish in the Chesapeake Bay and it’s tributaries for 5 consecutive days. o Non-Resident License: $14.00 Allows a non-resident to fish in the Chesapeake Bay and it’s tributaries from January 1 through December31. o Non-Resident 5-Day Bay Sport License: $6.00: Allows a non-resident to fish in the Chesapeake Bay and it’s tributaries for 5 consecutive days. o Consolidated Bay Sport Boat License: $40.00 Allows everyone onboard a boat used for pleasure to recreationally fish and crab in the Chesapeake Bay and it’s tributaries. Also allows the boat owner named on the license to recreationally fish and crab from locations other than the boat. o Replacement Tidal/Bay Sport Fishing Licenses: $1.00 o Replacement Consolidated Bay Sport Boat License: $5.00 + Replacement licenses are issued only at the DNR Regional Service Centers. Contact your local service center for further information. o Bay Sport Charter Boat License: Up to 6 Passengers-$240.00; More than 6 Passengers-$290.00 Allows individuals on board chartered vessels to fish in the Chesapeake Bay and it’s tributaries without obtaining an individual license. These licenses are issued only to holders of Maryland Commercial Fishing Guide Licenses. -- John H. "Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it." Rene Descartes |
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On 2 Jan 2006 08:12:09 -0800, "
wrote: Gene Kearns wrote: (Keywords: ; Expiry: ; Reply: ) On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 03:53:17 GMT in rec.boats, NOYB penned the following thoughts: wrote in message roups.com... I do know that we do not need a license to fish from a dock in salt water. That's only true if you're a resident of Florida...or if the pier that you're fishing from has a blanket license that covers everybody fishing from it. Non-residents need a license anytime they're fishing. Are you a Florida resident? Untrue. You don't need a sal****er license in FL if you are a citizen fishing from a structure fixed to land. http://taxcol.martin.fl.us/fishing.asp I think all states on the Atlantic Coast now require sal****er licenses.... excepting two or three. I don't think DE has one, not sure about NJ, and NC will have one in 2007. Anybody know if I missed one? The goal is for all of the states to have licensing... We have to buy Federal licenses, now, for HMS..... -- Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC. http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/ Homepage* http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Agent Version 3.2 Build 806 Yes, I am a real Florida resident (5th generation) and not a transplant. Furhtermore, "ignorance of the law is no excuse" is nonsense. For example, if you missed an arcane part of the tax code that hardly anybody knew and you ended up losing your house you'd be justifiably ****ed. Laws are meant to be applied intelligently, not blindly as absolutes rarely make sense. I have no problem with the law, it is the absolute enforcement of such when enforcement does more harm than good that I dislike. I would hope the wildlife officer would use discretion when enforcing the law but my experience with the Fl Marine Patrol gives me little hope for that. My experience says that it is best to hide ALL activities from law enforcement people lest they find some excuse to cite you. I can get the pertinent fishing regulation booklet into my shirt pocket. Can you do the same with the tax code? For each species of fish there are dates and sizes. What is arcane about the legal dates and sizes for redfish in Florida? For example: Red Drum (Redfish) Not less than 18" nor more than 27" One per person per day That's really not difficult to comprehend, and the whole regulation would probably fit in your back pocket. The basic recreational sal****er regulations take up two pages. He http://myfwc.com/marine/Regulations/..._JULY_2005.pdf Now you'll never have the worry again. Your experience with law enforcement is different from mine. If DNR wants to see what's in my cooler, they're more than welcome. I *like* them keeping folks honest. -- John H. "Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it." Rene Descartes |
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wrote in message oups.com... NOYB strikes me as being the kind of blathering moron that gives authority such a bad reputation. I did the right thing and neither you or any other brownosing self appointed expert can tell me or her anything different. You kept a fish that may have been illegal to keep...and your guilty conscience led you to sneak it off the dock in plain view of your 9 year old daughter. That's not "doing right thing". Fishing rules were made to keep the fish from being overfished, if you think they should be enforced just to make a point of harassing a 9 yr old then you are a sicko. The fish was gonna die, we ate it, tough **** asshole. You really don't have a clue. |
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"Gene Kearns" wrote in message ... (Keywords: ; Expiry: ; Reply: ) On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 03:53:17 GMT in rec.boats, NOYB penned the following thoughts: wrote in message groups.com... I do know that we do not need a license to fish from a dock in salt water. That's only true if you're a resident of Florida...or if the pier that you're fishing from has a blanket license that covers everybody fishing from it. Non-residents need a license anytime they're fishing. Are you a Florida resident? Untrue. Nope, true. Read below. You don't need a sal****er license in FL if you are a citizen fishing from a structure fixed to land. http://taxcol.martin.fl.us/fishing.asp If you're a *citizen of Florida*. A sal****er fishing license is required for: Anyone fishing from a pleasure craft. Each person fishing must have a license on their person. Anyone fishing from a sandbar or other land mass that is accessible by boat, or by swimming through water deeper than (3) feet. Anyone diving who takes, attempts to take, or possess any marine fish. ALL NON-RESIDENTS FISHING IN SALWATER (EXCLUDING THOSE NON-RESIDENTS FISHING FROM A LICENSED PIER). Kids under 16 don't need a license, however. |
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wrote in message ups.com... Gene Kearns wrote: (Keywords: ; Expiry: ; Reply: ) On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 03:53:17 GMT in rec.boats, NOYB penned the following thoughts: wrote in message roups.com... I do know that we do not need a license to fish from a dock in salt water. That's only true if you're a resident of Florida...or if the pier that you're fishing from has a blanket license that covers everybody fishing from it. Non-residents need a license anytime they're fishing. Are you a Florida resident? Untrue. You don't need a sal****er license in FL if you are a citizen fishing from a structure fixed to land. http://taxcol.martin.fl.us/fishing.asp I think all states on the Atlantic Coast now require sal****er licenses.... excepting two or three. I don't think DE has one, not sure about NJ, and NC will have one in 2007. Anybody know if I missed one? The goal is for all of the states to have licensing... We have to buy Federal licenses, now, for HMS..... -- Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC. http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/ Homepage* http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Agent Version 3.2 Build 806 Yes, I am a real Florida resident (5th generation) and not a transplant. Then you have no excuse for not knowing the regulations. You're a Florida resident *and* you speak English *and* you have access to the internet: http://floridafisheries.com/rules.html Furhtermore, "ignorance of the law is no excuse" is nonsense. For example, if you missed an arcane part of the tax code that hardly anybody knew and you ended up losing your house you'd be justifiably ****ed. Everybody who goes into a bait shop to buy tackle and shrimp can pick up a free copy of the regulations. This isn't a law that "hardly anybody knew". Laws are meant to be applied intelligently, not blindly as absolutes rarely make sense. I have no problem with the law, it is the absolute enforcement of such when enforcement does more harm than good that I dislike. I would hope the wildlife officer would use discretion when enforcing the law but my experience with the Fl Marine Patrol gives me little hope for that. My experience says that it is best to hide ALL activities from law enforcement people lest they find some excuse to cite you. My experience says that if you do nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide. |
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NOYB wrote: My experience says that if you do nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide. That's true, right up to the point where the people who decide "right and wrong" move the goalposts. Moral and ethical absolutes remain constant, but "legal" standards blow all over the landscape sbject to a lot of variables. One of the problems with the pastime of fishing, at least locally, is that its nearly a full time job to keep up with the regulations. This area is open, then that area is open, then some area that was scheduled to open doesn't while some other area has the season extended unexpectedly. You can kill Fish A but you have to release Fish B, unless such and such a pararagraph in subsection X applies as recorded on page 72 of a pamphlet that was out of stock at the bait shop. Screw it. It's just easier to buy fish at the market. (Maybe that's one of the objectives for the regulators: keeping the rules confusing tends to minimize the number of people fishing) |
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wrote in message ups.com... NOYB wrote: My experience says that if you do nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide. That's true, right up to the point where the people who decide "right and wrong" move the goalposts. Moral and ethical absolutes remain constant, but "legal" standards blow all over the landscape sbject to a lot of variables. The slot limit has been the same for the past 6 years that I've been in Florida. |
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Harry Krause wrote:
That's what I remember, though this one makes me wonder a bit: " Anyone fishing from a sandbar or other land mass that is accessible by boat, or by swimming through water deeper than (3) feet." Wouldn't that include most of the Florida shoreline, if literally applied? You know, like surfcasting from the beach? There were almost always "fish police" at my two favorite Florida boat ramps, busy looking into everyone's coolers as soon as they pulled their boats out of the water. Harry, What are the laws up your way about 'fish police' and they right to inspect? Can they simply board your boat or check your property cuz they can? I've wondered that down here in Florida and altho we do not trailer our boat, I'm curious. On the water I've been informed I have to allow the Coast Guard aboard, but where do my rights and my property begin and end? You can deny an officer to search your vehicle on the road, but what about on the water? In another thread someone mentioned "If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide" but at what point do you say enough is enough? |
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"JohnH" wrote in message ... On 2 Jan 2006 08:12:09 -0800, " wrote: Gene Kearns wrote: (Keywords: ; Expiry: ; Reply: ) On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 03:53:17 GMT in rec.boats, NOYB penned the following thoughts: wrote in message roups.com... I do know that we do not need a license to fish from a dock in salt water. That's only true if you're a resident of Florida...or if the pier that you're fishing from has a blanket license that covers everybody fishing from it. Non-residents need a license anytime they're fishing. Are you a Florida resident? Untrue. You don't need a sal****er license in FL if you are a citizen fishing from a structure fixed to land. http://taxcol.martin.fl.us/fishing.asp I think all states on the Atlantic Coast now require sal****er licenses.... excepting two or three. I don't think DE has one, not sure about NJ, and NC will have one in 2007. Anybody know if I missed one? The goal is for all of the states to have licensing... We have to buy Federal licenses, now, for HMS..... -- Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC. http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/ Homepage* http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Agent Version 3.2 Build 806 Yes, I am a real Florida resident (5th generation) and not a transplant. Furhtermore, "ignorance of the law is no excuse" is nonsense. For example, if you missed an arcane part of the tax code that hardly anybody knew and you ended up losing your house you'd be justifiably ****ed. Laws are meant to be applied intelligently, not blindly as absolutes rarely make sense. I have no problem with the law, it is the absolute enforcement of such when enforcement does more harm than good that I dislike. I would hope the wildlife officer would use discretion when enforcing the law but my experience with the Fl Marine Patrol gives me little hope for that. My experience says that it is best to hide ALL activities from law enforcement people lest they find some excuse to cite you. I can get the pertinent fishing regulation booklet into my shirt pocket. Can you do the same with the tax code? For each species of fish there are dates and sizes. What is arcane about the legal dates and sizes for redfish in Florida? For example: Red Drum (Redfish) Not less than 18" nor more than 27" One per person per day That's really not difficult to comprehend, and the whole regulation would probably fit in your back pocket. The basic recreational sal****er regulations take up two pages. He http://myfwc.com/marine/Regulations/..._JULY_2005.pdf Now you'll never have the worry again. Your experience with law enforcement is different from mine. If DNR wants to see what's in my cooler, they're more than welcome. I *like* them keeping folks honest. -- John H. "Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it." Rene Descartes The fishing code in california is more complex than the tax codes! We have protected fish, that the F&G wardens can not tell from the very similar legal fish, we can fish for rockcod in less than 120' of water, that is contiguous to dry land, but if the water depth goes to more than 120' then the bottom comes up, that is off limits. |
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DNR may not look into my cooler without cause. Once at a State park,
the park police saw a beer bottle on a nearby table and gave a friend of mine a ticket for this even though it was not his. Then, they proceeded to search all coolers nearby, including mine. Of course, I walked up while they were doing so and went ballistic, snatched my cooler from them, asked em if they had a warrant, etc (I had no alchohol). We all got tickets and went to court in Wakulla. The judge basically told DNR they were at fault and they dropped all charges. Yes, I really am a 5th gen Fl native who does not fish. I have watched people on the beach fishing who catch something that they couldnt identify and throw it back for that reason to avoid being caught with something possibly illegal. maybe that makes sense. I have had bad experiences with the Marine Patrol on two occasions and I no longer expect them to act with any intelligence. In fact, I think my life is in danger whenever they are near (based on my experiences). If you have done nothing wrong, it is best to hide anyway. |
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Harry:
Not being a fisherman, I cannot discuss how they treat fishermen. My bad experiences with them were over other aspects of boating and were not only unprofessional of them but genuinely life threatening. As far as joining a militia, nah, I dont even own a gun, ok, I own an old 22 that I have not fired in years. Militia types strike me as nut cases and I do believe there is a need for the laws we are discussing. I am simply arguing for sensible enforcement, not enforcement for the sake of enforcement. I apologize to NYOB, I over reacted. |
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"Bill McKee" wrote in message ink.net... "NOYB" wrote in message nk.net... wrote in message oups.com... I do know that we do not need a license to fish from a dock in salt water. That's only true if you're a resident of Florida...or if the pier that you're fishing from has a blanket license that covers everybody fishing from it. Non-residents need a license anytime they're fishing. Are you a Florida resident? There is probably an age requirement. 9 years old most likely does not require a license, resident or not. Correct. Age 16. But I got the feeling that dbohara was fishing too. |
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"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "Gene Kearns" wrote in message ... (Keywords: ; Expiry: ; Reply: ) On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 03:53:17 GMT in rec.boats, NOYB penned the following thoughts: wrote in message oups.com... I do know that we do not need a license to fish from a dock in salt water. That's only true if you're a resident of Florida...or if the pier that you're fishing from has a blanket license that covers everybody fishing from it. Non-residents need a license anytime they're fishing. Are you a Florida resident? Untrue. Nope, true. Read below. You don't need a sal****er license in FL if you are a citizen fishing from a structure fixed to land. http://taxcol.martin.fl.us/fishing.asp If you're a *citizen of Florida*. A sal****er fishing license is required for: Anyone fishing from a pleasure craft. Each person fishing must have a license on their person. Anyone fishing from a sandbar or other land mass that is accessible by boat, or by swimming through water deeper than (3) feet. Anyone diving who takes, attempts to take, or possess any marine fish. ALL NON-RESIDENTS FISHING IN SALWATER (EXCLUDING THOSE NON-RESIDENTS FISHING FROM A LICENSED PIER). Kids under 16 don't need a license, however. That's what I remember, though this one makes me wonder a bit: " Anyone fishing from a sandbar or other land mass that is accessible by boat, or by swimming through water deeper than (3) feet." Wouldn't that include most of the Florida shoreline, if literally applied? You know, like surfcasting from the beach? Fishing from the beach is OK. If you have to take a boat or swim through water more than 3 feet deep to get to a sandbar, then you need a license to fish from that sandbar. There were almost always "fish police" at my two favorite Florida boat ramps, busy looking into everyone's coolers as soon as they pulled their boats out of the water. I'm glad the fishcops/grouper troopers are out there protecting our fisheries. |
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"DownTime" wrote in message .. . Harry Krause wrote: That's what I remember, though this one makes me wonder a bit: " Anyone fishing from a sandbar or other land mass that is accessible by boat, or by swimming through water deeper than (3) feet." Wouldn't that include most of the Florida shoreline, if literally applied? You know, like surfcasting from the beach? There were almost always "fish police" at my two favorite Florida boat ramps, busy looking into everyone's coolers as soon as they pulled their boats out of the water. Harry, What are the laws up your way about 'fish police' and they right to inspect? Can they simply board your boat or check your property cuz they can? FWC can do just about anything they want. There are a few 4th Amendment exceptions about checking living quarters on your boat if it is so equipped...but coolers, fishboxes, etc. are fair game. I've wondered that down here in Florida and altho we do not trailer our boat, I'm curious. On the water I've been informed I have to allow the Coast Guard aboard, but where do my rights and my property begin and end? You have very few rights on the water when the CG decides to search your boat. You can deny an officer to search your vehicle on the road, but what about on the water? Nope. In another thread someone mentioned "If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide" but at what point do you say enough is enough? Strip searches by limp-wristed fishcops? |
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On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 15:16:07 +0000, NOYB wrote:
In another thread someone mentioned "If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide" but at what point do you say enough is enough? Strip searches by limp-wristed fishcops? How about if they confiscate your new Grady? Scroll down to read about Dick Kaster. http://home.pacbell.net/rsdotson/gov...tOnTheTake.htm |
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"thunder" wrote in message ... On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 15:16:07 +0000, NOYB wrote: In another thread someone mentioned "If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide" but at what point do you say enough is enough? Strip searches by limp-wristed fishcops? How about if they confiscate your new Grady? Scroll down to read about Dick Kaster. http://home.pacbell.net/rsdotson/gov...tOnTheTake.htm There's simply not enough information there to make an informed comment on this case. Did Mr. Kaster have a prior record of illegally gill netting fish? Was a gill net found on his boat at the time? Did the authorities witness Mr. Kaster using a gill net in the lake? Can you find a link to any of the actual court cases on this for me to read? |
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Many of my neighbors are small commercial fishermen who were driven out
of business by the so called "Net ban Amendment" that was promulgated by so-called "Sport Fishermen" The amendment to the FL constitution is written so badly that it is very difficult to decide if some nets are legal so that the Marine Patrol simply enforces it against those people they do not like. The situation became so tense here in N. Fl that a few yrs ago the Marine patrol refused to rescue some commercial fishermen on a small boat off Alligator Point. The Marine Patrol says they never heard the distress call although they were less than 10 miles away on the water writing a net ban ticket at the time. Instead, the Coast Guard station at Yankeetown 90 miles away did get it and relayed it to the marine Patrol who refused to act on it for hours. Later, the Marine Patrol sai9d the wearher was too rough for them to search in spite of them having a 60' vessel at Carabelle 15 miles away. Finally, other fishermen decided to search since the Marine Patrol refused but by this time the vessel had sunk killing two. It is widely believed in these parts that the Marine Patrol intentionally allowed these men to die to punish the local fishermen for their opposition to the net ban. Meanwhile, it has been found that it is the so-called "Sport Fishermen" with their mega expensive boats that are depleting grouper stocks Given a choice of having sympathy for a hard working "commercial fisherman" with a plywood boat with a 30 yr old Johnson trying to scrape by vs a spoiled rich transplant driving a $100,000 "fishing" boat, I'll take the plywood boat. Because of the extraordinarily foolish idea of putting the net ban in the Fl constitution, many of us here have protested by voting for the pregnant pig amendment and the bullet train amendment. Of course, you can see where the money is as the bullet train amendment ahs been ignored while we still prosecute poor commercial fishermen and sieze their property so the rich "Sport Fishermen" can enjoy themselves. |
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