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Mule December 16th 05 07:28 PM

NYT 'SPYING' SPLASH TIED TO BOOK RELEASE
 
http://www.drudgereport.com/flash9nyt.htm

NYT 'SPYING' SPLASH TIED TO BOOK RELEASE
Fri Dec 16 200 11:27:16 ET

**Exclusive**

Newspaper fails to inform readers "news break" is tied to book
publication

On the front page of today's NEW YORK TIMES, national security reporter
James Risen claims that "months after the September 11 attacks,
President Bush secretly authorized the National Security Agency to
eavesdrop on Americans and others inside the United States... without
the court approved warrants ordinarily required for domestic spying,
according to government officials."

Risen claims the White House asked the paper not to publish the
article, saying that it could jeopardize continuing investigations and
alert would-be terrorists that they might be under scrutiny.

Risen claims the TIMES delayed publication of the article for a year to
conduct additional reporting.

But now comes word James Risen's article is only one of many "explosive
newsbreaking" stories that can be found -- in his upcoming book --
which he turned in 3 months ago!

The paper failed to reveal the urgent story was tied to a book release
and sale.

"STATE OF WAR: The Secret History of the CIA and the Bush
Administration" is to be published by FREE PRESS in the coming weeks,
sources tell the DRUDGE REPORT.

Carisa Hays, VP, Director of Publicity FREE PRESS, confirms the book is
being published.

The book editor of Bush critic Richard Clarke [AGAINST ALL ENEMIES]
signed Risen to FREE PRESS.

Developing...


Bert Robbins December 16th 05 07:47 PM

NYT 'SPYING' SPLASH TIED TO BOOK RELEASE
 
The major media outlets have become nothing more than the propaganda arm of
the DNC.

"Mule" wrote in message
oups.com...
http://www.drudgereport.com/flash9nyt.htm

NYT 'SPYING' SPLASH TIED TO BOOK RELEASE
Fri Dec 16 200 11:27:16 ET

**Exclusive**

Newspaper fails to inform readers "news break" is tied to book
publication

On the front page of today's NEW YORK TIMES, national security reporter
James Risen claims that "months after the September 11 attacks,
President Bush secretly authorized the National Security Agency to
eavesdrop on Americans and others inside the United States... without
the court approved warrants ordinarily required for domestic spying,
according to government officials."

Risen claims the White House asked the paper not to publish the
article, saying that it could jeopardize continuing investigations and
alert would-be terrorists that they might be under scrutiny.

Risen claims the TIMES delayed publication of the article for a year to
conduct additional reporting.

But now comes word James Risen's article is only one of many "explosive
newsbreaking" stories that can be found -- in his upcoming book --
which he turned in 3 months ago!

The paper failed to reveal the urgent story was tied to a book release
and sale.

"STATE OF WAR: The Secret History of the CIA and the Bush
Administration" is to be published by FREE PRESS in the coming weeks,
sources tell the DRUDGE REPORT.

Carisa Hays, VP, Director of Publicity FREE PRESS, confirms the book is
being published.

The book editor of Bush critic Richard Clarke [AGAINST ALL ENEMIES]
signed Risen to FREE PRESS.

Developing...




JohnH December 16th 05 09:22 PM

NYT 'SPYING' SPLASH TIED TO BOOK RELEASE
 
I expect there'll be some reports of collusion with the Democrats in the Senate also. Too
coincidental that this story, several years old, broke the day the Senate voted to stop the Patriot
Act filibuster.


On 16 Dec 2005 11:28:15 -0800, "Mule" wrote:

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash9nyt.htm

NYT 'SPYING' SPLASH TIED TO BOOK RELEASE
Fri Dec 16 200 11:27:16 ET

**Exclusive**

Newspaper fails to inform readers "news break" is tied to book
publication

On the front page of today's NEW YORK TIMES, national security reporter
James Risen claims that "months after the September 11 attacks,
President Bush secretly authorized the National Security Agency to
eavesdrop on Americans and others inside the United States... without
the court approved warrants ordinarily required for domestic spying,
according to government officials."

Risen claims the White House asked the paper not to publish the
article, saying that it could jeopardize continuing investigations and
alert would-be terrorists that they might be under scrutiny.

Risen claims the TIMES delayed publication of the article for a year to
conduct additional reporting.

But now comes word James Risen's article is only one of many "explosive
newsbreaking" stories that can be found -- in his upcoming book --
which he turned in 3 months ago!

The paper failed to reveal the urgent story was tied to a book release
and sale.

"STATE OF WAR: The Secret History of the CIA and the Bush
Administration" is to be published by FREE PRESS in the coming weeks,
sources tell the DRUDGE REPORT.

Carisa Hays, VP, Director of Publicity FREE PRESS, confirms the book is
being published.

The book editor of Bush critic Richard Clarke [AGAINST ALL ENEMIES]
signed Risen to FREE PRESS.

Developing...


--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular!
....and your New Year even Better!

JohnH December 16th 05 09:54 PM

NYT 'SPYING' SPLASH TIED TO BOOK RELEASE
 
On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 16:30:31 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

JohnH wrote:
I expect there'll be some reports of collusion with the Democrats in the Senate also. Too
coincidental that this story, several years old, broke the day the Senate voted to stop the Patriot
Act filibuster.


Actually, there was no filibuster. There was a threat of a filibuster.
The unPatriot Act stinks, and for the moment at least, some Senators
realize that.

I hear Fritz changed his vote at the end so he could regurgitate it next
year.

This, by the way, is an example of what I meant by good things happening
when Bush is down in the polls.


You are correct. The vote was to stop the debate. Fritz changed his vote to correct it, but
emphasized that the debate would continue.
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular!
....and your New Year even Better!

JohnH December 16th 05 11:41 PM

NYT 'SPYING' SPLASH TIED TO BOOK RELEASE
 
On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 17:46:17 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 16:30:31 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

JohnH wrote:
I expect there'll be some reports of collusion with the Democrats in the Senate also. Too
coincidental that this story, several years old, broke the day the Senate voted to stop the Patriot
Act filibuster.

Actually, there was no filibuster. There was a threat of a filibuster.
The unPatriot Act stinks, and for the moment at least, some Senators
realize that.

I hear Fritz changed his vote at the end so he could regurgitate it next
year.

This, by the way, is an example of what I meant by good things happening
when Bush is down in the polls.


You are correct. The vote was to stop the debate. Fritz changed his vote to correct it, but
emphasized that the debate would continue.
--
John Herring




Five Republicans joined the call for real debate and so the Bush thug
push to short-circuit Patriot Act reform was soundly defeated in a
Senate vote today.

This vote paves the way for a bipartisan filibuster to restore checks
and balances and protect the freedoms of innocent Americans.


The vote was 53 to 47. Seven short of the 60 needed. "Soundly defeated" indeed. Note that is wasn't
a filibuster, it was, and still is, a debate.
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular!
....and your New Year even Better!

[email protected] December 17th 05 02:30 AM

NYT 'SPYING' SPLASH TIED TO BOOK RELEASE
 

JohnH wrote:


The vote was 53 to 47. Seven short of the 60 needed. "Soundly defeated" indeed.



ROTFLMAO........if memory serves me well, a national vote decided by
the same percentage, just thirteen months ago, was a "Rout!" a
"Mandate" a "Total Repudiation of Moderates and Liberals".........
"Vindication for Bush, Limbaugh, and the Conservative Agenda," "An
overhwelming stamp of approval for the war in Iraq"......... yada,
yada, yada

funny how standards change, :-)


JimH December 17th 05 02:39 AM

NYT 'SPYING' SPLASH TIED TO BOOK RELEASE
 

wrote in message
oups.com...

JohnH wrote:


The vote was 53 to 47. Seven short of the 60 needed. "Soundly defeated"
indeed.



ROTFLMAO........if memory serves me well, a national vote decided by
the same percentage, just thirteen months ago, was a "Rout!" a
"Mandate" a "Total Repudiation of Moderates and Liberals".........
"Vindication for Bush, Limbaugh, and the Conservative Agenda," "An
overhwelming stamp of approval for the war in Iraq"......... yada,
yada, yada

funny how standards change, :-)



Yeah, imagine anyone winning by a mere 3.5 million votes calling it a rout.
LOL!



Smithers December 17th 05 03:02 AM

NYT 'SPYING' SPLASH TIED TO BOOK RELEASE
 
Chuck
You must read completely different newspapers or read completely different
essays than I do. I don't think I read any such comments, even by partisans
in rec.boats.


wrote in message
oups.com...

JohnH wrote:


The vote was 53 to 47. Seven short of the 60 needed. "Soundly defeated"
indeed.



ROTFLMAO........if memory serves me well, a national vote decided by
the same percentage, just thirteen months ago, was a "Rout!" a
"Mandate" a "Total Repudiation of Moderates and Liberals".........
"Vindication for Bush, Limbaugh, and the Conservative Agenda," "An
overhwelming stamp of approval for the war in Iraq"......... yada,
yada, yada

funny how standards change, :-)




Smithers December 17th 05 03:03 AM

NYT 'SPYING' SPLASH TIED TO BOOK RELEASE
 
Harry,
Why did the independent exit polls match the election results?

Is it possible that you are losing it?



"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
JimH wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
JohnH wrote:

The vote was 53 to 47. Seven short of the 60 needed. "Soundly defeated"
indeed.

ROTFLMAO........if memory serves me well, a national vote decided by
the same percentage, just thirteen months ago, was a "Rout!" a
"Mandate" a "Total Repudiation of Moderates and Liberals".........
"Vindication for Bush, Limbaugh, and the Conservative Agenda," "An
overhwelming stamp of approval for the war in Iraq"......... yada,
yada, yada

funny how standards change, :-)



Yeah, imagine anyone winning by a mere 3.5 million votes calling it a
rout. LOL!



Diebold. Nothing more.

--
George W. Bush: American Nero.




JohnH December 17th 05 03:23 AM

NYT 'SPYING' SPLASH TIED TO BOOK RELEASE
 
On 16 Dec 2005 18:30:05 -0800, wrote:


JohnH wrote:


The vote was 53 to 47. Seven short of the 60 needed. "Soundly defeated" indeed.



ROTFLMAO........if memory serves me well, a national vote decided by
the same percentage, just thirteen months ago, was a "Rout!" a
"Mandate" a "Total Repudiation of Moderates and Liberals".........
"Vindication for Bush, Limbaugh, and the Conservative Agenda," "An
overhwelming stamp of approval for the war in Iraq"......... yada,
yada, yada

funny how standards change, :-)


There you are! Why didn't you address my question New Year's resolutions?

I don't recall the words 'rout', 'total repudiation', 'vindication', 'overwhelming' being used.
Could you show me?
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular!
....and your New Year even Better!

Smithers December 17th 05 04:02 AM

NYT 'SPYING' SPLASH TIED TO BOOK RELEASE
 
JohnH,
GMTA or is that FMTA?


"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On 16 Dec 2005 18:30:05 -0800, wrote:


JohnH wrote:


The vote was 53 to 47. Seven short of the 60 needed. "Soundly defeated"
indeed.



ROTFLMAO........if memory serves me well, a national vote decided by
the same percentage, just thirteen months ago, was a "Rout!" a
"Mandate" a "Total Repudiation of Moderates and Liberals".........
"Vindication for Bush, Limbaugh, and the Conservative Agenda," "An
overhwelming stamp of approval for the war in Iraq"......... yada,
yada, yada

funny how standards change, :-)


There you are! Why didn't you address my question New Year's
resolutions?

I don't recall the words 'rout', 'total repudiation', 'vindication',
'overwhelming' being used.
Could you show me?
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular!
...and your New Year even Better!




JohnH December 17th 05 04:06 AM

NYT 'SPYING' SPLASH TIED TO BOOK RELEASE
 
Definitely not the latter!

On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 23:02:52 -0500, "Smithers" Yes, Smithers is not my real name. wrote:

JohnH,
GMTA or is that FMTA?


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
On 16 Dec 2005 18:30:05 -0800, wrote:


JohnH wrote:


The vote was 53 to 47. Seven short of the 60 needed. "Soundly defeated"
indeed.


ROTFLMAO........if memory serves me well, a national vote decided by
the same percentage, just thirteen months ago, was a "Rout!" a
"Mandate" a "Total Repudiation of Moderates and Liberals".........
"Vindication for Bush, Limbaugh, and the Conservative Agenda," "An
overhwelming stamp of approval for the war in Iraq"......... yada,
yada, yada

funny how standards change, :-)


There you are! Why didn't you address my question New Year's
resolutions?

I don't recall the words 'rout', 'total repudiation', 'vindication',
'overwhelming' being used.
Could you show me?
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular!
...and your New Year even Better!



--
John Herring
May your Christmas be Spectacular!
....and your New Year even Better!

Smithers December 17th 05 04:09 AM

NYT 'SPYING' SPLASH TIED TO BOOK RELEASE
 
Then it must be GMTA.


"JohnH" wrote in message
...
Definitely not the latter!

On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 23:02:52 -0500, "Smithers" Yes, Smithers is not my
real name. wrote:

JohnH,
GMTA or is that FMTA?


"JohnH" wrote in message
. ..
On 16 Dec 2005 18:30:05 -0800, wrote:


JohnH wrote:


The vote was 53 to 47. Seven short of the 60 needed. "Soundly
defeated"
indeed.


ROTFLMAO........if memory serves me well, a national vote decided by
the same percentage, just thirteen months ago, was a "Rout!" a
"Mandate" a "Total Repudiation of Moderates and Liberals".........
"Vindication for Bush, Limbaugh, and the Conservative Agenda," "An
overhwelming stamp of approval for the war in Iraq"......... yada,
yada, yada

funny how standards change, :-)

There you are! Why didn't you address my question New Year's
resolutions?

I don't recall the words 'rout', 'total repudiation', 'vindication',
'overwhelming' being used.
Could you show me?
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular!
...and your New Year even Better!



--
John Herring
May your Christmas be Spectacular!
...and your New Year even Better!




JohnH December 17th 05 04:22 AM

NYT 'SPYING' SPLASH TIED TO BOOK RELEASE
 
I can't believe Harry is saying I'm telling lies about him. Now I feel bad. I'm thinking of changing
my name to Don.


On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 23:09:02 -0500, "Smithers" Yes, Smithers is not my real name. wrote:

Then it must be GMTA.


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
Definitely not the latter!

On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 23:02:52 -0500, "Smithers" Yes, Smithers is not my
real name. wrote:

JohnH,
GMTA or is that FMTA?


"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On 16 Dec 2005 18:30:05 -0800, wrote:


JohnH wrote:


The vote was 53 to 47. Seven short of the 60 needed. "Soundly
defeated"
indeed.


ROTFLMAO........if memory serves me well, a national vote decided by
the same percentage, just thirteen months ago, was a "Rout!" a
"Mandate" a "Total Repudiation of Moderates and Liberals".........
"Vindication for Bush, Limbaugh, and the Conservative Agenda," "An
overhwelming stamp of approval for the war in Iraq"......... yada,
yada, yada

funny how standards change, :-)

There you are! Why didn't you address my question New Year's
resolutions?

I don't recall the words 'rout', 'total repudiation', 'vindication',
'overwhelming' being used.
Could you show me?
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular!
...and your New Year even Better!


--
John Herring
May your Christmas be Spectacular!
...and your New Year even Better!



--
John Herring
May your Christmas be Spectacular!
....and your New Year even Better!

[email protected] December 17th 05 04:24 AM

NYT 'SPYING' SPLASH TIED TO BOOK RELEASE
 

JohnH wrote:
On 16 Dec 2005 18:30:05 -0800, wrote:


JohnH wrote:


The vote was 53 to 47. Seven short of the 60 needed. "Soundly defeated" indeed.



ROTFLMAO........if memory serves me well, a national vote decided by
the same percentage, just thirteen months ago, was a "Rout!" a
"Mandate" a "Total Repudiation of Moderates and Liberals".........
"Vindication for Bush, Limbaugh, and the Conservative Agenda," "An
overhwelming stamp of approval for the war in Iraq"......... yada,
yada, yada

funny how standards change, :-)


There you are! Why didn't you address my question New Year's resolutions?

I don't recall the words 'rout', 'total repudiation', 'vindication', 'overwhelming' being used.
Could you show me?
--
John Herring


"Rout": columnist Randall Nunn, American Daily, one of a bunch in the
search engine


"Repudiation": The results are a repudiation of Kerry, the first
Catholic nominated for president since 1960. Kerry's support of
abortion rights and embryonic stem-cell ...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nation ...
ics/2002084916_catholic08.html , one of a bunch in the search engine.

I'll let you sleuth out vindication and overwhelming. Easily done.

Sorry, but I didn't see your question about the New Year's resolutions.
There are too many posts to read them all, especially since most of
them are just volleys in the name calling and pig piling wars.


JohnH December 17th 05 04:32 AM

NYT 'SPYING' SPLASH TIED TO BOOK RELEASE
 
On 16 Dec 2005 20:24:32 -0800, wrote:


JohnH wrote:
On 16 Dec 2005 18:30:05 -0800,
wrote:


JohnH wrote:


The vote was 53 to 47. Seven short of the 60 needed. "Soundly defeated" indeed.


ROTFLMAO........if memory serves me well, a national vote decided by
the same percentage, just thirteen months ago, was a "Rout!" a
"Mandate" a "Total Repudiation of Moderates and Liberals".........
"Vindication for Bush, Limbaugh, and the Conservative Agenda," "An
overhwelming stamp of approval for the war in Iraq"......... yada,
yada, yada

funny how standards change, :-)


There you are! Why didn't you address my question New Year's resolutions?

I don't recall the words 'rout', 'total repudiation', 'vindication', 'overwhelming' being used.
Could you show me?
--
John Herring


"Rout": columnist Randall Nunn, American Daily, one of a bunch in the
search engine


"Repudiation": The results are a repudiation of Kerry, the first
Catholic nominated for president since 1960. Kerry's support of
abortion rights and embryonic stem-cell ...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nation ...
ics/2002084916_catholic08.html , one of a bunch in the search engine.

I'll let you sleuth out vindication and overwhelming. Easily done.

Sorry, but I didn't see your question about the New Year's resolutions.
There are too many posts to read them all, especially since most of
them are just volleys in the name calling and pig piling wars.


Yes, it's the name-calling and pig-piling that should be stopped. Wayne suggested that it might be
part of a New Year's resolution. Sounds like a pretty good idea.

As to the rest, I guess you're right - standards change!
--
John Herring
May your Christmas be Spectacular!
....and your New Year even Better!

[email protected] December 17th 05 05:11 AM

NYT 'SPYING' SPLASH TIED TO BOOK RELEASE
 

JohnH wrote:
On 16 Dec 2005 20:24:32 -0800, wrote:


JohnH wrote:
On 16 Dec 2005 18:30:05 -0800,
wrote:


JohnH wrote:


The vote was 53 to 47. Seven short of the 60 needed. "Soundly defeated" indeed.


ROTFLMAO........if memory serves me well, a national vote decided by
the same percentage, just thirteen months ago, was a "Rout!" a
"Mandate" a "Total Repudiation of Moderates and Liberals".........
"Vindication for Bush, Limbaugh, and the Conservative Agenda," "An
overhwelming stamp of approval for the war in Iraq"......... yada,
yada, yada

funny how standards change, :-)

There you are! Why didn't you address my question New Year's resolutions?

I don't recall the words 'rout', 'total repudiation', 'vindication', 'overwhelming' being used.
Could you show me?
--
John Herring


"Rout": columnist Randall Nunn, American Daily, one of a bunch in the
search engine


"Repudiation": The results are a repudiation of Kerry, the first
Catholic nominated for president since 1960. Kerry's support of
abortion rights and embryonic stem-cell ...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nation ...
ics/2002084916_catholic08.html , one of a bunch in the search engine.

I'll let you sleuth out vindication and overwhelming. Easily done.

Sorry, but I didn't see your question about the New Year's resolutions.
There are too many posts to read them all, especially since most of
them are just volleys in the name calling and pig piling wars.


Yes, it's the name-calling and pig-piling that should be stopped. Wayne suggested that it might be
part of a New Year's resolution. Sounds like a pretty good idea.

As to the rest, I guess you're right - standards change!
--
John Herring
May your Christmas be Spectacular!
...and your New Year even Better!


The only way for name calling and "side-choosing" (aka pig piling) to
stop will be for each one of us to consciously avoid participating in
it and by attempting to ignore those who do.

I see little hope of this ever happening in rec.boats. Our most
prolific poster freely admits that he enjoys stirring up the "right
wing trash", and he has a whole crew of people who spend entire
weekends hovering over their keyboards waiting for him to post anything
at all so they can call him a "liar", (and worse).

There is so little boating content here, as a direct result of the
abuses by Harry, Smithers, Gould, NOYB, Hertvik, Herring, Basskisser,
Bert, Jack Goff, JPS, and of course the reanimated Skipper that the
group is irretrievably in the toilet. Most of the folks in the above
list are off topic at least 90% of the time. When "Harry Krause is
a.............." threads get 200 or 300 posts and a boating thread gets
2 or 3, trying to maintain any facade that this is a boating group is
certainly ridiculous.was the last time a new personality showed up in
the group (aside from one of Smithers' 1000 aliases) and stayed for
more than a couple of days? What does that tell us about what the group
has become? Even scarier, what does that tell us about those of us who
seem to flourish in the daily exchange of crappy personal remarks and
the endless resurrection of old fights based on something (or the
misrepresentation of something) that was posted, in many cases, several
years ago?

As long as Harry's hobby is stirring up his fan club, and as long as
there are a dozen people here for no other reason than to pitch Harry a
bunch of crap everyday, the NG is toast. It would take a group of
adults to break the cycle. It doesn't even take 100 percent
participation- but the first step would probably have to involve
certain individuals reaching decisions that their behavior in the group
will be determined by their own conscious choices rather than by
involuntary reactions to something posted by some "commie, pinko
liberal" or "conservatrash".


Skipper December 17th 05 06:49 AM

NYT 'SPYING' SPLASH TIED TO BOOK RELEASE
 
wrote:

There is so little boating content here, as a direct result of the
abuses by Harry, Smithers, Gould, NOYB, Hertvik, Herring, Basskisser,
Bert, Jack Goff, JPS, and of course the reanimated Skipper that the
group is irretrievably in the toilet. Most of the folks in the above
list are off topic at least 90% of the time.


As long as Harry's hobby is stirring up his fan club, and as long as
there are a dozen people here for no other reason than to pitch Harry a
bunch of crap everyday, the NG is toast. It would take a group of
adults to break the cycle. It doesn't even take 100 percent
participation- but the first step would probably have to involve
certain individuals reaching decisions that their behavior in the group
will be determined by their own conscious choices rather than by
involuntary reactions to something posted by some "commie, pinko
liberal" or "conservatrash".


I do not believe Smithers, Gould, NOYB, Hertvick, Herring, Bert and
Skipper are the problem. JPS can be ignored, but Krause, ahh Krause, now
there is *the* problem. Nothing can be done while while that troll posts
his personal insults here. Do you have a final solution to the Harry
Krause infestation?

We can petition that the NG go moderated, but that has its own problems.
Where can we find one who will allow occasional banter and still control
Harry? Let's face it, part of the attraction of this group is the off
topic banter.

--
Skipper

[email protected] December 17th 05 07:34 AM

NYT 'SPYING' SPLASH TIED TO BOOK RELEASE
 

Skipper wrote:
Do you have a final solution to the Harry
Krause infestation?

--
Skipper


I have a Crescent wrench solution. One size fits all infestations from
any source, (sort of). While many people like to dump all the blame on
Harry, there is plenty to go around.
Your skirts are not entirely clean, nor are mine, nor are many others'.

Consider the following parable:

A man visited his doctor to complain, "Doc, every time I raise my arm
above my shoulder, it hurts like hell!"

The doctor said, "Well, that's easy, just don't raise your arm above
your shoulder."


If every time somebody responds to a troll in rec.boats the group goes
to hell, then the anwer is easy. Nothing looks more lonesome or more
foolish than a troll that nobody is responding to. If you think Harry
is a troll, don't respond. I am making a not-always-entirely successful
effort to control my own responses to trolls, stay out of ****ing
matches, and avoid name calling. I believe that there are other people
in this group specifically *to* engage in that sort of behavior, but it
is not my place or right to judge them or demand that they change their
ways. If I control my own destiny and don't let other people determine
what my reactionary behavior "has to be", the group will be a little
bit better than if I go out of my way to pick fights, call names, start
attack threads, join in a pig pile, etc. If one or two other people
also try to stay out of fights, avoid name calling, avoid pig piling,
and refrain from launching attack threads then the group gets better
yet.

None of us can decide what the "group" will do, nor can/should we wait
for the group to modify its behavior before we take responsibility for
our own. At least that's my opinion, as requested, and its an attitude
that might work to take the group back from the brink of extinction.
Things are currently about as bad as they have ever been in the NG, and
far, far worse than the recent average. Too bad, IMO.

Have a pleasant Saturday, I'll be off to help my Mom celebrate her 75th
birthday tomorrow.


P. Fritz December 17th 05 01:00 PM

NYT 'SPYING' SPLASH TIED TO BOOK RELEASE
 

" JimH" wrote in message
. ..

wrote in message
oups.com...

JohnH wrote:


The vote was 53 to 47. Seven short of the 60 needed. "Soundly

defeated"
indeed.



ROTFLMAO........if memory serves me well, a national vote decided by
the same percentage, just thirteen months ago, was a "Rout!" a
"Mandate" a "Total Repudiation of Moderates and Liberals".........
"Vindication for Bush, Limbaugh, and the Conservative Agenda," "An
overhwelming stamp of approval for the war in Iraq"......... yada,
yada, yada

funny how standards change, :-)



Yeah, imagine anyone winning by a mere 3.5 million votes calling it a

rout.
LOL!



Of course the liebrals called clinton's victory with less than 50% of the
vote a "mandate"

LMAO




Smithers December 17th 05 01:02 PM

Hey, Chuck, Gene, Wayne, et al
 
Harry,
It would be interesting to see posting on topic posts instead of your OT
trolls. I commend you Harry.



"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
wrote:

If every time somebody responds to a troll in rec.boats the group goes
to hell, then the anwer is easy. Nothing looks more lonesome or more
foolish than a troll that nobody is responding to. If you think Harry
is a troll, don't respond. I am making a not-always-entirely successful
effort to control my own responses to trolls, stay out of ****ing
matches, and avoid name calling. I believe that there are other people
in this group specifically *to* engage in that sort of behavior, but it
is not my place or right to judge them or demand that they change their
ways. If I control my own destiny and don't let other people determine
what my reactionary behavior "has to be", the group will be a little
bit better than if I go out of my way to pick fights, call names, start
attack threads, join in a pig pile, etc. If one or two other people
also try to stay out of fights, avoid name calling, avoid pig piling,
and refrain from launching attack threads then the group gets better
yet.


You know, Chuck, you, Gene, Wayne, and a couple of others have been saying
this for a while, and there is more than a possibility you guys are right.

I think I'll see what happens if I just ignore the pigs here and leave
them to their slop.

So, I'll be glad to engage you in reasonable discussions on any subject,
boating related *or* otherwise, and I'll initiate the same, and I'll do my
best to keep up my end, as it were.

That means, of course, that I will not be responding to certain posters
here and, once I get my filters up and running again, I hopefully won't
see much of their excrement.

We'll give it a shot and see what happens.


--
Abstinence-only sex education=Ignorance-only sex education.




Skipper December 17th 05 01:10 PM

Hey, Chuck, Gene, Wayne, et al
 
Smithers wrote:

Harry,
It would be interesting to see posting on topic posts instead of your OT
trolls. I commend you Harry.


Why are you responding to his OT post?

--
Skipper

Smithers December 17th 05 01:15 PM

Hey, Chuck, Gene, Wayne, et al
 
Who me?


"Skipper" wrote in message
...
Smithers wrote:

Harry,
It would be interesting to see posting on topic posts instead of your OT
trolls. I commend you Harry.


Why are you responding to his OT post?

--
Skipper




Skipper December 17th 05 01:23 PM

Hey, Chuck, Gene, Wayne, et al
 
Smithers wrote:

"Skipper" wrote in message...


Smithers wrote:


Harry,
It would be interesting to see posting on topic posts instead of your OT
trolls. I commend you Harry.


Why are you responding to his OT post?


Who me?


Suspect we'd both like to see the NG recover.

--
Skipper

JimH December 17th 05 01:27 PM

Hey, Chuck, Gene, Wayne, et al
 

"Skipper" wrote in message
...
Smithers wrote:

"Skipper" wrote in message...


Smithers wrote:


Harry,
It would be interesting to see posting on topic posts instead of your
OT
trolls. I commend you Harry.


Why are you responding to his OT post?


Who me?


Suspect we'd both like to see the NG recover.

--
Skipper



Good morning Skipper. No offense, but...................when you came back
to this NG and spent week after week riding and belittling Chuck, was that a
sign that you would like to see this NG recover?




Smithers December 17th 05 01:34 PM

Hey, Chuck, Gene, Wayne, et al
 
Skipper,
It would be nice, and it is risk free.

All NG have OT threads, and minor flame wars, but when 90% of new posts are
OT trolls, it is recipe for disaster.

If people can stop the OT trolling, and others can ignore them when they pop
up, rec.boats might be able to make a come back.

In any case, it would be interesting to see if it is possible.


"Skipper" wrote in message
...
Smithers wrote:

"Skipper" wrote in message...


Smithers wrote:


Harry,
It would be interesting to see posting on topic posts instead of your
OT
trolls. I commend you Harry.


Why are you responding to his OT post?


Who me?


Suspect we'd both like to see the NG recover.

--
Skipper




JohnH December 17th 05 02:21 PM

Hey, Chuck, Gene, Wayne, et al
 
On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 08:27:46 -0500, " JimH" wrote:


"Skipper" wrote in message
...
Smithers wrote:

"Skipper" wrote in message...


Smithers wrote:


Harry,
It would be interesting to see posting on topic posts instead of your
OT
trolls. I commend you Harry.


Why are you responding to his OT post?


Who me?


Suspect we'd both like to see the NG recover.

--
Skipper



Good morning Skipper. No offense, but...................when you came back
to this NG and spent week after week riding and belittling Chuck, was that a
sign that you would like to see this NG recover?



No offense, but the past is the past.

With his reference to 'pigs', Harry's response to Chuck was an obvious troll.

I wouldn't mind seeing the NG recover, but responding to *anything* Harry says is not going to help
it.
--
John H

**** May your Christmas be Spectacular!****
*****...and your New Year even Better!*****

Wayne.B December 17th 05 03:33 PM

NYT 'SPYING' SPLASH TIED TO BOOK RELEASE
 
On 16 Dec 2005 23:34:08 -0800, wrote:

If I control my own destiny and don't let other people determine
what my reactionary behavior "has to be", the group will be a little
bit better than if I go out of my way to pick fights, call names, start
attack threads, join in a pig pile, etc. If one or two other people
also try to stay out of fights, avoid name calling, avoid pig piling,
and refrain from launching attack threads then the group gets better
yet.


======================

Absolutely right. It's called leading by example. Let everyone's
posts here reflect what they would lke the entire group to be like.


Wayne.B December 17th 05 03:35 PM

Hey, Chuck, Gene, Wayne, et al
 
On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 06:42:51 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

That means, of course, that I will not be responding to certain posters
here and, once I get my filters up and running again, I hopefully won't
see much of their excrement.

We'll give it a shot and see what happens.


=======================

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised but it will take some resolve
on everyone's part.




Bert Robbins December 17th 05 03:50 PM

Hey, Chuck, Gene, Wayne, et al
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 06:42:51 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

That means, of course, that I will not be responding to certain posters
here and, once I get my filters up and running again, I hopefully won't
see much of their excrement.

We'll give it a shot and see what happens.


=======================

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised but it will take some resolve
on everyone's part.




Maybe. I've got most of the garbage filtered, and it's easy enough to add
to the filter database. We'll see.


Your "filtering" won't last a week! You won't be able to stand not reading
what everyone else is posting.



P Fritz December 17th 05 03:55 PM

Hey, Chuck, Gene, Wayne, et al
 

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 06:42:51 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

That means, of course, that I will not be responding to certain

posters
here and, once I get my filters up and running again, I hopefully

won't
see much of their excrement.

We'll give it a shot and see what happens.

=======================

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised but it will take some resolve
on everyone's part.




Maybe. I've got most of the garbage filtered, and it's easy enough to

add
to the filter database. We'll see.


Your "filtering" won't last a week! You won't be able to stand not reading
what everyone else is posting.



"The other "punishment" narcissists mete out is banishing you from their
glorious presence"

"The narcissist expects that you will be devastated by the withdrawal of
her/his divine attention, so that after a while -- a few weeks or months
(i.e., the next time the narcissist needs to use you for something) -- the
narcissist will expect you to have learned your lesson and be eager to
return to the fold. If you have learned your lesson"

"They can't see that they have a problem; it's always somebody else who
has the problem and needs to change"






JohnH December 17th 05 05:05 PM

Hey, Chuck, Gene, Wayne, et al
 
On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 10:50:16 -0500, "Bert Robbins" wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 06:42:51 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

That means, of course, that I will not be responding to certain posters
here and, once I get my filters up and running again, I hopefully won't
see much of their excrement.

We'll give it a shot and see what happens.

=======================

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised but it will take some resolve
on everyone's part.




Maybe. I've got most of the garbage filtered, and it's easy enough to add
to the filter database. We'll see.


Your "filtering" won't last a week! You won't be able to stand not reading
what everyone else is posting.


Let's give it a chance. It can't *hurt* anything!
--
John H

**** May your Christmas be Spectacular!****
*****...and your New Year even Better!*****

JohnH December 17th 05 05:08 PM

Hey, Chuck, Gene, Wayne, et al
 
On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 10:55:25 -0500, "P Fritz" wrote:


"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 06:42:51 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

That means, of course, that I will not be responding to certain

posters
here and, once I get my filters up and running again, I hopefully

won't
see much of their excrement.

We'll give it a shot and see what happens.

=======================

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised but it will take some resolve
on everyone's part.




Maybe. I've got most of the garbage filtered, and it's easy enough to

add
to the filter database. We'll see.


Your "filtering" won't last a week! You won't be able to stand not reading
what everyone else is posting.



"The other "punishment" narcissists mete out is banishing you from their
glorious presence"

"The narcissist expects that you will be devastated by the withdrawal of
her/his divine attention, so that after a while -- a few weeks or months
(i.e., the next time the narcissist needs to use you for something) -- the
narcissist will expect you to have learned your lesson and be eager to
return to the fold. If you have learned your lesson"

"They can't see that they have a problem; it's always somebody else who
has the problem and needs to change"





None of us has to change, except for not taking the bait when he puts out his trolls. He's stated
over and over his intentions here, which are to fight with conservatives. His sig line is just
another example of same.
--
John H

**** May your Christmas be Spectacular!****
*****...and your New Year even Better!*****

Wayne.B December 17th 05 05:10 PM

Hey, Chuck, Gene, Wayne, et al
 
On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 10:48:24 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Maybe. I've got most of the garbage filtered, and it's easy enough to
add to the filter database. We'll see.


--
Clinton and Monica; W and Iraq: Which is harder to swallow?


===============================

If you are truly serious about this "experiment" I would respectfully
suggest that you abstain from adding your little sig line zingers like
"Clinton and Monica" above. Some are funny but almost all are viewed
as inflammatory in some way, that particular one in poor taste at the
very least, and do a lot to perpetuate hostilities here. You can't
take pot shots at others without expecting the brick coming back over
the wall. If that's your goal, then you have defined yourself as part
of the problem, not part of the solution.

/end lecture


Smithers December 17th 05 05:28 PM

Hey, Chuck, Gene, Wayne, et al
 
Remember, when Harry makes a post like this he is trolling, don't bite.


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
Wayne.B wrote:

My guess is that even if I don't engage them directly or indirectly, the
garbage cannot help itself, and it will continue in its snarly, smelly
ways.

I'll excise some of them for a while, though. Or at least think about it.




P Fritz December 17th 05 05:42 PM

Hey, Chuck, Gene, Wayne, et al
 
Harry cannot help it, he just keeps proving he has a problem

"The other "punishment" narcissists mete out is banishing you from their
glorious presence"

"The narcissist expects that you will be devastated by the withdrawal of
her/his divine attention, so that after a while -- a few weeks or months
(i.e., the next time the narcissist needs to use you for something) -- the
narcissist will expect you to have learned your lesson and be eager to
return to the fold. If you have learned your lesson"

"They can't see that they have a problem; it's always somebody else who
has the problem and needs to change"

"Smithers" Yes, Smithers is not my real name. wrote in message
. ..
Remember, when Harry makes a post like this he is trolling, don't bite.


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
Wayne.B wrote:

My guess is that even if I don't engage them directly or indirectly, the
garbage cannot help itself, and it will continue in its snarly, smelly
ways.

I'll excise some of them for a while, though. Or at least think about

it.





Smithers December 17th 05 05:47 PM

Hey, Chuck, Gene, Wayne, et al
 
Paul,
Let's not add to the problem. I think it will be very interesting to see
what would happen if people didn't bite when other people went trolling.
Sometimes it is very hard not to, but it really would be interest to see the
reaction when the trolling doing get any bite.


"P Fritz" wrote in message
...
Harry cannot help it, he just keeps proving he has a problem

"The other "punishment" narcissists mete out is banishing you from their
glorious presence"

"The narcissist expects that you will be devastated by the withdrawal of
her/his divine attention, so that after a while -- a few weeks or months
(i.e., the next time the narcissist needs to use you for something) -- the
narcissist will expect you to have learned your lesson and be eager to
return to the fold. If you have learned your lesson"

"They can't see that they have a problem; it's always somebody else who
has the problem and needs to change"

"Smithers" Yes, Smithers is not my real name. wrote in message
. ..
Remember, when Harry makes a post like this he is trolling, don't bite.


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
Wayne.B wrote:

My guess is that even if I don't engage them directly or indirectly,
the
garbage cannot help itself, and it will continue in its snarly, smelly
ways.

I'll excise some of them for a while, though. Or at least think about

it.







JohnH December 17th 05 05:48 PM

Hey, Chuck, Gene, Wayne, et al
 
On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 12:28:18 -0500, "Smithers" Yes, Smithers is not my real name. wrote:

Remember, when Harry makes a post like this he is trolling, don't bite.


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:

My guess is that even if I don't engage them directly or indirectly, the
garbage cannot help itself, and it will continue in its snarly, smelly
ways.

I'll excise some of them for a while, though. Or at least think about it.



I wonder if Wayne and Chuck notice that?
--
John H

**** May your Christmas be Spectacular!****
*****...and your New Year even Better!*****

Smithers December 17th 05 05:48 PM

Hey, Chuck, Gene, Wayne, et al
 

"Smithers" Yes, Smithers is not my real name. wrote in message
. ..
Paul,
Let's not add to the problem. I think it will be very interesting to see
what would happen if people didn't bite when other people went trolling.
Sometimes it is very hard not to, but it really would be interest to see
the reaction when the trolling is not effective.

"P Fritz" wrote in message
...
Harry cannot help it, he just keeps proving he has a problem

"The other "punishment" narcissists mete out is banishing you from their
glorious presence"

"The narcissist expects that you will be devastated by the withdrawal of
her/his divine attention, so that after a while -- a few weeks or months
(i.e., the next time the narcissist needs to use you for something) --
the
narcissist will expect you to have learned your lesson and be eager to
return to the fold. If you have learned your lesson"

"They can't see that they have a problem; it's always somebody else who
has the problem and needs to change"

"Smithers" Yes, Smithers is not my real name. wrote in message
. ..
Remember, when Harry makes a post like this he is trolling, don't bite.


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
Wayne.B wrote:

My guess is that even if I don't engage them directly or indirectly,
the
garbage cannot help itself, and it will continue in its snarly, smelly
ways.

I'll excise some of them for a while, though. Or at least think about

it.









Smithers December 17th 05 05:49 PM

Hey, Chuck, Gene, Wayne, et al
 
JohnH,
It must be cold as hell up there. Any snow yet?


"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 12:28:18 -0500, "Smithers" Yes, Smithers is not my
real name. wrote:

Remember, when Harry makes a post like this he is trolling, don't bite.


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
m...
Wayne.B wrote:

My guess is that even if I don't engage them directly or indirectly, the
garbage cannot help itself, and it will continue in its snarly, smelly
ways.

I'll excise some of them for a while, though. Or at least think about
it.



I wonder if Wayne and Chuck notice that?
--
John H

**** May your Christmas be Spectacular!****
*****...and your New Year even Better!*****





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