Yeh I kinda agree.. Getting to the bottom of the follow up post is nothing
but a nuisance. Particularly if the thread has been followed from the start.
But to appease the Usenet Nazis I will bottom post as well. They can scroll
down and read this text just as if it was a bottom post in the first place.
Yay.

DP
"Matt Colie" wrote in message
...
Well d,
I'm not at all fasiliar with the other cultural references, but top
posting was the original fashion and only changed because some AH in
Redmond reset the default to differentiate their mail client from the all
the prior exsisting code.
The nice thing about old tried and true top posting format is that, if you
run one of the good clients that will do a message window, you can read
the top line as soon as you key on the title. You do have to change
windows and scroll down endlessly to get the the message were the MSAH
left it.
During the DARPAnet days discussions would go on for months and the whole
message had to be loaded or printed to read the bottom. We had high speed
300 baud modems and 60cps printers.
Technology is be better, but I still don't like to have to scroll to the
bottom (where the begining should be) to read the latest entry.
Matt Colie (been here too long)

d parker wrote:
A world wide culture war eh? Did I blink and miss something? What a load
of extremist crap. We are in no culture war. What we have a multitude of
happy societies enjoying multiculturism at its best. However there are a
few morons that are racist and bigoted who like to beat up on fellow
humans for no reason.

Every culture has them white, black, asian. Christian, muslim, hindu,
taoist whoever. But they are the minority.

Culture war BAH.

DP
There is no excuse for top posting! So I wont give you one.

"Danny" wrote in message
...

"Top posting" is an offense from the same list of NG "no-nos."

While it is off topic, it is something we will all deal with soon. We are
in a World wide culture war and the West will lose this one. We are
usually governed by rules of decency that disallow us to compete. Sorta
like "top posting" and "off topic posts" for example. :-)


"d parker" wrote in message
...

Umm.. what sort of boat do they own? Are the victims sailors or is it
the rapists? Just looking for the ON TOPIC factor.

DP
"collin" wrote in message
...

Scumbag Blair should read this, we are being plagued by Moslem trash in
the UK.

.....

Muslim Gang Rapes and the Aussie Riots
By Sharon Lapkin
FrontPageMagazine.com | December 15, 2005

In Australia this week amidst anger over an Islamic man's rape
conviction
and the bashing of two Aussie life savers, working-class locals erupted
in a
rampage of anger and brawling in some of the worst racial riots in
decades.
But there is more to the story than is being repeated in the American
mainstream media....

Four days after he set foot in Australia, the rape spree began. And
during
his sexual assault trial in a New South Wales courtroom, the Pakistani
man
began to berate one of his tearful 14-year-old victims because she had
the
temerity to shake her head at his testimony.


But she had every reason to express her disgust. After taking an oath
on the
Qur'an, the man - known only as MSK - told the court he had committed
four
attacks on girls as young as 13 because they had no right to say "no."
They
were not covering their face or wearing a headscarf, and therefore, the
rapist proclaimed: "I'm not doing anything wrong."



MSK is already serving a 22-year jail term for leading his three
younger
brothers in a gang rape of two other young Sydney girls in 2002. In his
own
defence, he argued that his cultural background, was responsible for
his
crimes.



And he is right.



In some parts of Pakistan, sexual assault - including gang rape - is
officially sanctified as a legitimate form of enforcing the social
value
system.



One village council recently ordered that five young girls should be
"abducted, raped or murdered" for refusing to be treated as chattel.
The
girls were aged between six and thirteen when they were married without
their knowledge, to pay a family debt.



And when Mukhtar Mai's 12-year-old brother was alleged to have
committed an
offence in a small Pakistani farming village, the village council
ordered
that his sister be gang-raped. So, she was taken to a hut where four
men
repeatedly assaulted her.



According to the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan there were 804
cases of
such officially orchestrated sexual assault in 2000, and 434 of these
were
gang rapes. And if that isn't bad enough, the victims of these
atrocities
are then expected to commit suicide because rape victims bring
irreparable
shame upon their family.



So as MSK committed his acts of rape while visiting Australia, he was
simply
perpetuating his own cultural heritage. He hails from a society where
officially sanctioned sexual violence is commonly employed as a means
to
enforce the subservience of women.



And this is where two fundamental tenets of the modern Left clash: the
irresistible force of cultural relativism collides with the immovable
object
of gender equality. But in the 21st century it is the latter that must
prevail.



The laissez faire attitudes of cultural relativism are unacceptable in
modern society. Female genital mutilation is not some quaint tribal
custom
that we are bound to respect: it is barbarism, pure and simple.



Yet many Western leftists habitually excuse these crimes against women
in
order to maintain political solidarity with their allies in the Islamic
world. After all, it would be tough to make common cause with Muslim
groups
in the antiwar movement if Progressives began to criticize the practice
of
polygamy.



But along with Islamic immigration to the West have come Third World
value
systems regarding the treatment of women. We must not be seduced by the
false tenets of cultural relativism into a toleration of forced
marriages,
officially sanctioned rape, and honour killings.



Australia's unique brand of multiculturalism confers both rights and
obligations: while cultural and linguistic diversity are to be
cherished,
every Australian must subscribe to a single standard of human rights.
Australians must forcefully repudiate the corruption of the
multicultural
idea that would condone crimes against women and support jihadism.



The dangers of cultural relativism became evident Down Under last
weekend
when long-festering ethnic tensions erupted into violence at Cronulla
Beach
near Sydney. The trouble began when a group of Middle Eastern men were
assaulted by mobs of angry locals. The local Member of Parliament,
Bruce
Baird MP, claimed the public outcry was revenge for the Bali bombings
and
September 11.



But Baird also explained that a series of high profile rapes in the
area had
spurred locals on and that a group of Middle Eastern men had attacked
two
Aussie lifesavers the previous weekend. Locals claimed to the media
after
the riots that they were sick of Lebanese Muslim gangs calling their
daughters and wives names, and throwing cigarette butts at them.



Then neo-Nazis showed up in a transparent attempt to exploit local
ethnic
tensions for their own benefit. But mainstream Australians expressed
their
frustration with both the violence inflicted by Middle Eastern men, and
the
equally violent effort by white racists to exploit it.


While rejecting the tenets of neo-Nazism, working-class Aussies who
live
near Cronulla Beach were saying they've had enough of this culturally
motivated crime wave in a wave of violence that is also unacceptable.
The
race riots in suburban Sydney represented a clash between two polar
opposites of white supremacy and Islamic male supremacy. But the
average
Australian seeks a midpoint between these equally vile extremes in
which
fairness and a single standard of law will apply to all.


--
©Billy©
www.votebilly.org



Yeh I kinda agree.. Getting to the bottom of the follow up post is nothing
but a nuisance. Particularly if the thread has been followed from the start.
But to appease the Usenet Nazis I will bottom post as well. They can scroll
down and read this text just as if it was a bottom post in the first place.
Yay.

DP

Bottom posting is a joke imposed on newbies. That fact that some
people actually think its the "preferred" way is quite funny.

And Matt, you were luck to have 300 baud, I started at 134.5 baud.

d parker wrote:
Yeh I kinda agree.. Getting to the bottom of the follow up post is nothing
but a nuisance. Particularly if the thread has been followed from the start.
But to appease the Usenet Nazis I will bottom post as well. They can scroll
down and read this text just as if it was a bottom post in the first place.
Yay.

DP
"Matt Colie" wrote in message
...

Well d,
I'm not at all fasiliar with the other cultural references, but top
posting was the original fashion and only changed because some AH in
Redmond reset the default to differentiate their mail client from the all
the prior exsisting code.
The nice thing about old tried and true top posting format is that, if you
run one of the good clients that will do a message window, you can read
the top line as soon as you key on the title. You do have to change
windows and scroll down endlessly to get the the message were the MSAH
left it.
During the DARPAnet days discussions would go on for months and the whole
message had to be loaded or printed to read the bottom. We had high speed
300 baud modems and 60cps printers.
Technology is be better, but I still don't like to have to scroll to the
bottom (where the begining should be) to read the latest entry.
Matt Colie (been here too long)

d parker wrote:

A world wide culture war eh? Did I blink and miss something? What a load
of extremist crap. We are in no culture war. What we have a multitude of
happy societies enjoying multiculturism at its best. However there are a
few morons that are racist and bigoted who like to beat up on fellow
humans for no reason.

Every culture has them white, black, asian. Christian, muslim, hindu,
taoist whoever. But they are the minority.

Culture war BAH.

DP
There is no excuse for top posting! So I wont give you one.

"Danny" wrote in message
...


"Top posting" is an offense from the same list of NG "no-nos."

While it is off topic, it is something we will all deal with soon. We are
in a World wide culture war and the West will lose this one. We are
usually governed by rules of decency that disallow us to compete. Sorta
like "top posting" and "off topic posts" for example. :-)


"d parker" wrote in message
...


Umm.. what sort of boat do they own? Are the victims sailors or is it
the rapists? Just looking for the ON TOPIC factor.

DP
"collin" wrote in message
...


Scumbag Blair should read this, we are being plagued by Moslem trash in
the UK.


.....

Muslim Gang Rapes and the Aussie Riots
By Sharon Lapkin
FrontPageMagazine.com | December 15, 2005

In Australia this week amidst anger over an Islamic man's rape
conviction
and the bashing of two Aussie life savers, working-class locals erupted
in a
rampage of anger and brawling in some of the worst racial riots in
decades.
But there is more to the story than is being repeated in the American
mainstream media....

Four days after he set foot in Australia, the rape spree began. And
during
his sexual assault trial in a New South Wales courtroom, the Pakistani
man
began to berate one of his tearful 14-year-old victims because she had
the
temerity to shake her head at his testimony.


But she had every reason to express her disgust. After taking an oath
on the
Qur'an, the man - known only as MSK - told the court he had committed
four
attacks on girls as young as 13 because they had no right to say "no."
They
were not covering their face or wearing a headscarf, and therefore, the
rapist proclaimed: "I'm not doing anything wrong."



MSK is already serving a 22-year jail term for leading his three
younger
brothers in a gang rape of two other young Sydney girls in 2002. In his
own
defence, he argued that his cultural background, was responsible for
his
crimes.



And he is right.



In some parts of Pakistan, sexual assault - including gang rape - is
officially sanctified as a legitimate form of enforcing the social
value
system.



One village council recently ordered that five young girls should be
"abducted, raped or murdered" for refusing to be treated as chattel.
The
girls were aged between six and thirteen when they were married without
their knowledge, to pay a family debt.



And when Mukhtar Mai's 12-year-old brother was alleged to have
committed an
offence in a small Pakistani farming village, the village council
ordered
that his sister be gang-raped. So, she was taken to a hut where four
men
repeatedly assaulted her.



According to the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan there were 804
cases of
such officially orchestrated sexual assault in 2000, and 434 of these
were
gang rapes. And if that isn't bad enough, the victims of these
atrocities
are then expected to commit suicide because rape victims bring
irreparable
shame upon their family.



So as MSK committed his acts of rape while visiting Australia, he was
simply
perpetuating his own cultural heritage. He hails from a society where
officially sanctioned sexual violence is commonly employed as a means
to
enforce the subservience of women.



And this is where two fundamental tenets of the modern Left clash: the
irresistible force of cultural relativism collides with the immovable
object
of gender equality. But in the 21st century it is the latter that must
prevail.



The laissez faire attitudes of cultural relativism are unacceptable in
modern society. Female genital mutilation is not some quaint tribal
custom
that we are bound to respect: it is barbarism, pure and simple.



Yet many Western leftists habitually excuse these crimes against women
in
order to maintain political solidarity with their allies in the Islamic
world. After all, it would be tough to make common cause with Muslim
groups
in the antiwar movement if Progressives began to criticize the practice
of
polygamy.



But along with Islamic immigration to the West have come Third World
value
systems regarding the treatment of women. We must not be seduced by the
false tenets of cultural relativism into a toleration of forced
marriages,
officially sanctioned rape, and honour killings.



Australia's unique brand of multiculturalism confers both rights and
obligations: while cultural and linguistic diversity are to be
cherished,
every Australian must subscribe to a single standard of human rights.
Australians must forcefully repudiate the corruption of the
multicultural
idea that would condone crimes against women and support jihadism.



The dangers of cultural relativism became evident Down Under last
weekend
when long-festering ethnic tensions erupted into violence at Cronulla
Beach
near Sydney. The trouble began when a group of Middle Eastern men were
assaulted by mobs of angry locals. The local Member of Parliament,
Bruce
Baird MP, claimed the public outcry was revenge for the Bali bombings
and
September 11.



But Baird also explained that a series of high profile rapes in the
area had
spurred locals on and that a group of Middle Eastern men had attacked
two
Aussie lifesavers the previous weekend. Locals claimed to the media
after
the riots that they were sick of Lebanese Muslim gangs calling their
daughters and wives names, and throwing cigarette butts at them.



Then neo-Nazis showed up in a transparent attempt to exploit local
ethnic
tensions for their own benefit. But mainstream Australians expressed
their
frustration with both the violence inflicted by Middle Eastern men, and
the
equally violent effort by white racists to exploit it.


While rejecting the tenets of neo-Nazism, working-class Aussies who
live
near Cronulla Beach were saying they've had enough of this culturally
motivated crime wave in a wave of violence that is also unacceptable.
The
race riots in suburban Sydney represented a clash between two polar
opposites of white supremacy and Islamic male supremacy. But the
average
Australian seeks a midpoint between these equally vile extremes in
which
fairness and a single standard of law will apply to all.


--
©Billy©
www.votebilly.org




Yeh I kinda agree.. Getting to the bottom of the follow up post is nothing
but a nuisance. Particularly if the thread has been followed from the start.
But to appease the Usenet Nazis I will bottom post as well. They can scroll
down and read this text just as if it was a bottom post in the first place.
Yay.

DP

Jeff,
I didn't say I started at 300 baud, that was a what I blew 300+$us of
the company budget to get... That was the upgrade and a second one in
two years. This was when a network ran at 9600 and that was blindingly
fast you just had to remember to cock the hammer and put powder in the
frizen (oops - technology drift there).
They don't build 'em like that anymore - Thank GOD (or to not offend any
that object to the reference to a deity - MicroSoft)
Matt Colie


Jeff wrote:
Bottom posting is a joke imposed on newbies. That fact that some people
actually think its the "preferred" way is quite funny.

And Matt, you were luck to have 300 baud, I started at 134.5 baud.

d parker wrote:

Yeh I kinda agree.. Getting to the bottom of the follow up post is
nothing but a nuisance. Particularly if the thread has been followed
from the start. But to appease the Usenet Nazis I will bottom post as
well. They can scroll down and read this text just as if it was a
bottom post in the first place. Yay.

DP
"Matt Colie" wrote in message
...

Well d,
I'm not at all fasiliar with the other cultural references, but top
posting was the original fashion and only changed because some AH in
Redmond reset the default to differentiate their mail client from the
all the prior exsisting code.
The nice thing about old tried and true top posting format is that,
if you run one of the good clients that will do a message window, you
can read the top line as soon as you key on the title. You do have
to change windows and scroll down endlessly to get the the message
were the MSAH left it.
During the DARPAnet days discussions would go on for months and the
whole message had to be loaded or printed to read the bottom. We had
high speed 300 baud modems and 60cps printers.
Technology is be better, but I still don't like to have to scroll to
the bottom (where the begining should be) to read the latest entry.
Matt Colie (been here too long)

d parker wrote:

A world wide culture war eh? Did I blink and miss something? What a
load of extremist crap. We are in no culture war. What we have a
multitude of happy societies enjoying multiculturism at its best.
However there are a few morons that are racist and bigoted who like
to beat up on fellow humans for no reason.

Every culture has them white, black, asian. Christian, muslim,
hindu, taoist whoever. But they are the minority.

Culture war BAH.

DP
There is no excuse for top posting! So I wont give you one.

"Danny" wrote in message
...


"Top posting" is an offense from the same list of NG "no-nos."

While it is off topic, it is something we will all deal with soon.
We are in a World wide culture war and the West will lose this one.
We are usually governed by rules of decency that disallow us to
compete. Sorta like "top posting" and "off topic posts" for
example. :-)


"d parker" wrote in message
...


Umm.. what sort of boat do they own? Are the victims sailors or is
it the rapists? Just looking for the ON TOPIC factor.

DP
"collin" wrote in message
...


Scumbag Blair should read this, we are being plagued by Moslem
trash in the UK.


.....


Muslim Gang Rapes and the Aussie Riots
By Sharon Lapkin
FrontPageMagazine.com | December 15, 2005

In Australia this week amidst anger over an Islamic man's rape
conviction
and the bashing of two Aussie life savers, working-class locals
erupted in a
rampage of anger and brawling in some of the worst racial riots
in decades.
But there is more to the story than is being repeated in the
American
mainstream media....

Four days after he set foot in Australia, the rape spree began.
And during
his sexual assault trial in a New South Wales courtroom, the
Pakistani man
began to berate one of his tearful 14-year-old victims because
she had the
temerity to shake her head at his testimony.


But she had every reason to express her disgust. After taking an
oath on the
Qur'an, the man - known only as MSK - told the court he had
committed four
attacks on girls as young as 13 because they had no right to say
"no." They
were not covering their face or wearing a headscarf, and
therefore, the
rapist proclaimed: "I'm not doing anything wrong."



MSK is already serving a 22-year jail term for leading his three
younger
brothers in a gang rape of two other young Sydney girls in 2002.
In his own
defence, he argued that his cultural background, was responsible
for his
crimes.



And he is right.



In some parts of Pakistan, sexual assault - including gang rape - is
officially sanctified as a legitimate form of enforcing the
social value
system.



One village council recently ordered that five young girls should be
"abducted, raped or murdered" for refusing to be treated as
chattel. The
girls were aged between six and thirteen when they were married
without
their knowledge, to pay a family debt.



And when Mukhtar Mai's 12-year-old brother was alleged to have
committed an
offence in a small Pakistani farming village, the village council
ordered
that his sister be gang-raped. So, she was taken to a hut where
four men
repeatedly assaulted her.



According to the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan there were
804 cases of
such officially orchestrated sexual assault in 2000, and 434 of
these were
gang rapes. And if that isn't bad enough, the victims of these
atrocities
are then expected to commit suicide because rape victims bring
irreparable
shame upon their family.



So as MSK committed his acts of rape while visiting Australia, he
was simply
perpetuating his own cultural heritage. He hails from a society
where
officially sanctioned sexual violence is commonly employed as a
means to
enforce the subservience of women.



And this is where two fundamental tenets of the modern Left
clash: the
irresistible force of cultural relativism collides with the
immovable object
of gender equality. But in the 21st century it is the latter that
must
prevail.



The laissez faire attitudes of cultural relativism are
unacceptable in
modern society. Female genital mutilation is not some quaint
tribal custom
that we are bound to respect: it is barbarism, pure and simple.



Yet many Western leftists habitually excuse these crimes against
women in
order to maintain political solidarity with their allies in the
Islamic
world. After all, it would be tough to make common cause with
Muslim groups
in the antiwar movement if Progressives began to criticize the
practice of
polygamy.



But along with Islamic immigration to the West have come Third
World value
systems regarding the treatment of women. We must not be seduced
by the
false tenets of cultural relativism into a toleration of forced
marriages,
officially sanctioned rape, and honour killings.



Australia's unique brand of multiculturalism confers both rights and
obligations: while cultural and linguistic diversity are to be
cherished,
every Australian must subscribe to a single standard of human
rights.
Australians must forcefully repudiate the corruption of the
multicultural
idea that would condone crimes against women and support jihadism.



The dangers of cultural relativism became evident Down Under last
weekend
when long-festering ethnic tensions erupted into violence at
Cronulla Beach
near Sydney. The trouble began when a group of Middle Eastern men
were
assaulted by mobs of angry locals. The local Member of
Parliament, Bruce
Baird MP, claimed the public outcry was revenge for the Bali
bombings and
September 11.



But Baird also explained that a series of high profile rapes in
the area had
spurred locals on and that a group of Middle Eastern men had
attacked two
Aussie lifesavers the previous weekend. Locals claimed to the
media after
the riots that they were sick of Lebanese Muslim gangs calling their
daughters and wives names, and throwing cigarette butts at them.



Then neo-Nazis showed up in a transparent attempt to exploit
local ethnic
tensions for their own benefit. But mainstream Australians
expressed their
frustration with both the violence inflicted by Middle Eastern
men, and the
equally violent effort by white racists to exploit it.


While rejecting the tenets of neo-Nazism, working-class Aussies
who live
near Cronulla Beach were saying they've had enough of this
culturally
motivated crime wave in a wave of violence that is also
unacceptable. The
race riots in suburban Sydney represented a clash between two polar
opposites of white supremacy and Islamic male supremacy. But the
average
Australian seeks a midpoint between these equally vile extremes
in which
fairness and a single standard of law will apply to all.


--
©Billy©
www.votebilly.org




Yeh I kinda agree.. Getting to the bottom of the follow up post is
nothing but a nuisance. Particularly if the thread has been followed
from the start. But to appease the Usenet Nazis I will bottom post as
well. They can scroll down and read this text just as if it was a
bottom post in the first place. Yay.

DP

Just like I said! Another newbie drank the Kool-Aid!


wrote in message
...
Matt Colie wrote:
Well d,
I'm not at all fasiliar with the other cultural references, but top
posting was the original fashion and only changed because some AH in
Redmond reset the default to differentiate their mail client from the
all the prior exsisting code.
The nice thing about old tried and true top posting format is that, if
you run one of the good clients that will do a message window, you can
read the top line as soon as you key on the title. You do have to
change windows and scroll down endlessly to get the the message were the
MSAH left it.
During the DARPAnet days discussions would go on for months and the
whole message had to be loaded or printed to read the bottom. We had
high speed 300 baud modems and 60cps printers.
Technology is be better, but I still don't like to have to scroll to the
bottom (where the begining should be) to read the latest entry.
Matt Colie (been here too long)

d parker wrote:

A world wide culture war eh? Did I blink and miss something? What a
load of extremist crap. We are in no culture war. What we have a
multitude of happy societies enjoying multiculturism at its best.
However there are a few morons that are racist and bigoted who like
to beat up on fellow humans for no reason.



Crap!

I have been involved since 1972 with Arpanet and its subsequent
derivations and top posting has always been considered il-mannered. As
is failing to snip lengthy posts.

Try again ignoramus.

Uncle Bill - Commander USN (retired)

Bill,
It is no fault of yours that you are new to this.

Yes, long posts were always shortened because of the long load times,
but those of us running tty hardware or maybe an ADM2 were also running
Netnote on an IBM 7090 or later 360 and other Unix mail clients.

"Scrolling" was not possible (you might go down page, up going back up
was not happening). Yes - you could append then but in our groups
(largely defense industry suppliers) a note added this way would often
be missed because the tty people would not print the complete thread to
read the new note and the dumb terminal people would have to run in
psuedo (make the terminal almost smart by using core time at real time).

So, everyone that was interested would read messages as posted, these
massages had the prior massage attached so the reader knew which message
this was a response to. You did not want to have to print or bar
through something you had already read just to get to the new note.
The notes were always kept brief and if supporting data was required,
provision was made to transmit it from a node address (the forerunner of
an ftp).

Mind you please, I was an impressionable young man working among people
that had multiple PhDs at this time. I was also instructed that such
format was used because it was most like the industry internal paper
work form where any response is attached to the top of the circulated
document. But Hey - Nixon had just been inaugurated and most programs
were carried around on punch cards and had to batched at night.

The following is a real question and not intended as any kind of a slam
to any contributor or reader:

If "top posting" is so gauche, why do virtually all the mail clients
do this | ???
V
wrote:

Matt Colie
Matt Colie wrote:

Well d,
I'm not at all fasiliar with the other cultural references, but top
posting was the original fashion and only changed because some AH in
Redmond reset the default to differentiate their mail client from the
all the prior exsisting code.
The nice thing about old tried and true top posting format is that, if
you run one of the good clients that will do a message window, you can
read the top line as soon as you key on the title. You do have to
change windows and scroll down endlessly to get the the message were the
MSAH left it.
During the DARPAnet days discussions would go on for months and the
whole message had to be loaded or printed to read the bottom. We had
high speed 300 baud modems and 60cps printers.
Technology is be better, but I still don't like to have to scroll to the
bottom (where the begining should be) to read the latest entry.
Matt Colie (been here too long)

d parker wrote:


A world wide culture war eh? Did I blink and miss something? What a
load of extremist crap. We are in no culture war. What we have a
multitude of happy societies enjoying multiculturism at its best.
However there are a few morons that are racist and bigoted who like
to beat up on fellow humans for no reason.




Crap!

I have been involved since 1972 with Arpanet and its subsequent
derivations and top posting has always been considered il-mannered. As
is failing to snip lengthy posts.

Try again ignoramus.

Uncle Bill - Commander USN (retired)