The following are excerpts from Sheikh Yousef Al-Qaradhawi's Friday
December 2, 2005, which aired the same date on Qatar TV. Sheikh Al-Qaradhawi
is head of the European Council for Fatwa and Research, president of the
International Association of Muslim Scholars (IAMS), and the spiritual guide
of many other Islamist organizations across the world (including the Muslim
Brotherhood). In this sermon, hediscusses the Jews at the time of Muhammad,
as well as the situation in Iraq, calling for Iraq to be protected from the
"American Satan."
Sheikh Al-Qaradhawi: "These polytheist pagan invaders were joined by the
Jews - the Jews of the Banu Qurayza tribe, who remained in Al-Madina, and
who did to the Prophet Muhammad things that require punishment, by forging
an alliance with the Banu Nazir tribe against the Prophet. But the Prophet
forgave them and allowed them to remain in Al-Madina. Nevertheless, their
nature got the better of them, and they violated the treaty and the covenant
of protection between them and the Prophet.

[...]

"How great is the similarity between past and present, brothers. We Muslims
are besieged by many forces that want to uproot the Muslims under various
pretexts - the pretext of terrorism, the pretext of fundamentalism, this
pretext or that pretext. The goal is to fight this nation. They want to
eradicate the nation of Islam.

[...]

"We are now under a siege that resembles the Siege of the Trench, the Siege
of Akhzab.

"But we will be victorious, Allah willing - despite the traps set by Judaism
and the Crusaders, and despite the deeds of those who set traps and who
deceive.

[...]

"The Prophet besieged them for 25 days until they surrendered and agreed to
accept his reign. The Prophet called upon them to choose a judge, and they
chose Sa'd bin Mu'az, who had been their ally in the Jahiliyya [the
pre-Islamic era].

[...]

"He decided that the only treatment they merited was to have their fighters
killed, their women taken captive, and their property seized as booty.

[...]

"Some Orientalists claim that Muhammad was cruel to the Jews, but this is
how determination should be. One must be firm when firmness is warranted,
and gentle when gentleness is warranted.

[...]

"I place the responsibility on the Shi'ite brothers more than on the Sunnis,
because they are the ones who control the army, the police, the security
forces, the regime, and the ministries. They have things the Sunnis don't
have. They must not exploit this to kill their [Sunni] brothers, as they do.
We want the great Shi'ite clerics, the ayatollahs, the Shi'ite sources of
authority, the great authority Ayatollah Ali Sistani... We want the sheikhs
of the Houza to issue fatwas forbidding the killing of Muslims by Muslims,
fatwas forbidding the killing of Sunnis. The Sunnis issued such fatwas, but
we haven't seen the Shi'ite brothers, their clerics, or their ayatollahs
issuing similar fatwas. We want them to issue unequivocal fatwas forbidding
Muslims from fighting Muslims and killing them on the basis of their
identity.

[...]

"Soon, on December 15, parliamentary elections will be held. The new
parliament members will be elected. In the past, the Sunnis boycotted the
elections because they bore the burden of resisting the occupation, and
their circumstances prevented them from [participating]. There was no
security, and there were many things that prevented them from doing so. Now
I call upon the Sunnis to participate en masse in the next elections, to
present their candidacy, and to vote. Some clerics issued fatwas saying that
elections under the American occupation are forbidden. I say: No! Necessity
makes them permissible, especially in light of the fact that the occupation
does not appear to be intervening in these elections. If these are free and
fair elections, we should participate in them, instead of watching from the
sidelines. Then the pie will be divided between those who participated in
the elections, and we will continue to fight, and a civil war will break
out, and blood will be spilled. For what? I say to my Sunni brothers in
Iraq: Participate in these elections en masse.

[...]

"In the previous elections, they promised to amend the constitution after
the coming elections. There are many things in the constitution opposed by
the Sunnis, such as expanding the federations, the distribution of
resources, and so on. This is your chance to say your piece and to amend
this constitution. I call upon my brothers to join the political battle. We
should not ignore the political aspect. I call upon my brothers, members of
the Association of [Sunni] Muslim Clerics, headed by Sheikh Hareth al-Dhari
and his brothers... I call upon them not to be extremist in this matter, to
look at all sides of the issue, and to try to take advantage of this
opportunity, so that others [the Shi'ites] won't later say: We gave them an
opportunity, but they refused to take it. No. We don't want them to say
that. We want to take advantage of this opportunity, and we insist upon
realizing our right and not missing this opportunity.

"I pray for Allah to open our brothers' eyes, to make the present in Iraq
better than the past, and the future better than the present. I pray for
Allah to protect Iraq from overt and covert civil strife, to protect it from
the evils of divisiveness and racism, and to protect it from the whispers of
all satans, the human satans, the satans among the djinn, the American
satans, and other satans."



http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD104505

Sorta reminds me of what Big Time Christians say about how non-believers
will be subjected to some sort of horrible fate at some point in the future.
Armageddon or whatever. Too bad if you happen to be an excellent person, but
a Buddhist.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
Sorta reminds me of what Big Time Christians say about how non-believers
will be subjected to some sort of horrible fate at some point in the
future.




So which Big Time Cristians say the following?

"He decided that the only treatment they merited was to have their fighters
killed, their women taken captive, and their property seized as booty.

Some Orientalists claim that Muhammad was cruel to the Jews, but this is
how determination should be. One must be firm when firmness is warranted,
and gentle when gentleness is warranted."

"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
Sorta reminds me of what Big Time Christians say about how non-believers
will be subjected to some sort of horrible fate at some point in the
future.




So which Big Time Cristians say the following?

"He decided that the only treatment they merited was to have their
fighters
killed, their women taken captive, and their property seized as booty.

Some Orientalists claim that Muhammad was cruel to the Jews, but this is
how determination should be. One must be firm when firmness is warranted,
and gentle when gentleness is warranted."



I'm simply pointing out to you that no religion is devoid of pointless
vengeance. But, you already knew that. You're simply choosing the ignore the
one that doesn't help you make your point du jour.

"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...
So which Big Time Cristians say the following?

"He decided that the only treatment they merited was to have their
fighters
killed, their women taken captive, and their property seized as booty.

Some Orientalists claim that Muhammad was cruel to the Jews, but this is
how determination should be. One must be firm when firmness is warranted,
and gentle when gentleness is warranted."

Pope Urban II issued orders that the Moslem peoples should be all killed and
the holy land freed from the non Christians.

The First Crusade was the most successful from a military point of view.
Accounts of this action are shocking. For example, historian Raymond of
Agiles described the capture of Jerusalem by the Crusaders in 1099:


"Some of our men cut off the heads of their enemies; others shot them with
arrows, so that they fell from the towers; others tortured them longer by
casting them into the flames. Piles of heads, hands and feet were to be seen
in the streets of the city. It was necessary to pick one's way over the
bodies of men and horses. But these were small matters compared to what
happened at the temple of Solomon, a place where religious services ware
ordinarily chanted. What happened there? If I tell the truth, it will exceed
your powers of belief. So let it suffice to say this much at least, that in
the temple and portico of Solomon, men rode in blood up to their knees and
bridle reins."

The Christians of that era were just as cruel and barbaric as what you are
attributing to the Moslems of the time.

Jim C.

"Jim Carter" wrote in message
.. .

"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...
So which Big Time Cristians say the following?

"He decided that the only treatment they merited was to have their
fighters
killed, their women taken captive, and their property seized as booty.

Some Orientalists claim that Muhammad was cruel to the Jews, but this is
how determination should be. One must be firm when firmness is warranted,
and gentle when gentleness is warranted."

Pope Urban II issued orders that the Moslem peoples should be all killed
and
the holy land freed from the non Christians.

The First Crusade was the most successful from a military point of view.
Accounts of this action are shocking. For example, historian Raymond of
Agiles described the capture of Jerusalem by the Crusaders in 1099:


"Some of our men cut off the heads of their enemies; others shot them with
arrows, so that they fell from the towers; others tortured them longer by
casting them into the flames. Piles of heads, hands and feet were to be
seen
in the streets of the city. It was necessary to pick one's way over the
bodies of men and horses. But these were small matters compared to what
happened at the temple of Solomon, a place where religious services ware
ordinarily chanted. What happened there? If I tell the truth, it will
exceed
your powers of belief. So let it suffice to say this much at least, that
in
the temple and portico of Solomon, men rode in blood up to their knees and
bridle reins."

The Christians of that era were just as cruel and barbaric as what you are
attributing to the Moslems of the time.


But Muslim leaders are calling for similar acts today. Name one "Big Time
Christian" leader who is calling for a reenactment of the Crusades.

Most Christians have progressed into a culture of civility. Many Muslims
have not.

"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...

"Jim Carter" wrote in message
.. .

"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...
So which Big Time Cristians say the following?

"He decided that the only treatment they merited was to have their
fighters
killed, their women taken captive, and their property seized as booty.

Some Orientalists claim that Muhammad was cruel to the Jews, but this is
how determination should be. One must be firm when firmness is
warranted,
and gentle when gentleness is warranted."

Pope Urban II issued orders that the Moslem peoples should be all killed
and
the holy land freed from the non Christians.

The First Crusade was the most successful from a military point of view.
Accounts of this action are shocking. For example, historian Raymond of
Agiles described the capture of Jerusalem by the Crusaders in 1099:


"Some of our men cut off the heads of their enemies; others shot them
with
arrows, so that they fell from the towers; others tortured them longer by
casting them into the flames. Piles of heads, hands and feet were to be
seen
in the streets of the city. It was necessary to pick one's way over the
bodies of men and horses. But these were small matters compared to what
happened at the temple of Solomon, a place where religious services ware
ordinarily chanted. What happened there? If I tell the truth, it will
exceed
your powers of belief. So let it suffice to say this much at least, that
in
the temple and portico of Solomon, men rode in blood up to their knees
and
bridle reins."

The Christians of that era were just as cruel and barbaric as what you
are
attributing to the Moslems of the time.


But Muslim leaders are calling for similar acts today. Name one "Big Time
Christian" leader who is calling for a reenactment of the Crusades.

Most Christians have progressed into a culture of civility. Many Muslims
have not.

Whether you wish death upon an enemy in ways you can actually accomplish, or
believe death *should* come to them because of some mythological Armageddon
nonsense in the bible, you're an asshole either way. Nobody's excusing what
Muslim wackos are saying now. However, I *do* know Big Time Christians who
believe it's only right that all the details of Armageddon should actually
come to pass. These people are from one of the biggest evangelical churches
near here - not really what you might call a fringe group.

"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...
But Muslim leaders are calling for similar acts today. Name one "Big
Time
Christian" leader who is calling for a reenactment of the Crusades.

Most Christians have progressed into a culture of civility. Many Muslims
have not.

Pat Robertson, for one. Here is a little quote from his book

"If anybody understood what Hindus really believe, there would be no doubt
that they have no business administering government policies in a country
that favors freedom and equality. ... Can you imagine having the Ayatollah
Ruhollah Khomeini as defense minister, or Mahatma Gandhi as minister of
health, education, and welfare? The Hindu and Buddhist idea of karma and the
Muslim idea of kismet, or fate condemn the poor and the disabled to their
suffering. ... It's the will of Allah. These beliefs are nothing but abject
fatalism, and they would devastate the social gains this nation has made if
they were ever put into practice." --Pat Robertson's "The New World Order,"
page 219.

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 14:23:51 -0500, "Jim Carter" wrote:


"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...
So which Big Time Cristians say the following?

"He decided that the only treatment they merited was to have their
fighters
killed, their women taken captive, and their property seized as booty.

Some Orientalists claim that Muhammad was cruel to the Jews, but this is
how determination should be. One must be firm when firmness is warranted,
and gentle when gentleness is warranted."

Pope Urban II issued orders that the Moslem peoples should be all killed and
the holy land freed from the non Christians.

The First Crusade was the most successful from a military point of view.
Accounts of this action are shocking. For example, historian Raymond of
Agiles described the capture of Jerusalem by the Crusaders in 1099:


"Some of our men cut off the heads of their enemies; others shot them with
arrows, so that they fell from the towers; others tortured them longer by
casting them into the flames. Piles of heads, hands and feet were to be seen
in the streets of the city. It was necessary to pick one's way over the
bodies of men and horses. But these were small matters compared to what
happened at the temple of Solomon, a place where religious services ware
ordinarily chanted. What happened there? If I tell the truth, it will exceed
your powers of belief. So let it suffice to say this much at least, that in
the temple and portico of Solomon, men rode in blood up to their knees and
bridle reins."

The Christians of that era were just as cruel and barbaric as what you are
attributing to the Moslems of the time.

Jim C.


Luckily, most of them are dead.
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular,
and your New Year even Better!

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 17:33:44 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote:

Sorta reminds me of what Big Time Christians say about how non-believers
will be subjected to some sort of horrible fate at some point in the future.
Armageddon or whatever. Too bad if you happen to be an excellent person, but
a Buddhist.


Doug, what is a 'Big Time Christian'? I know of none who say that.
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular,
and your New Year even Better!