On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 17:33:44 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote:

Sorta reminds me of what Big Time Christians say about how non-believers
will be subjected to some sort of horrible fate at some point in the future.
Armageddon or whatever. Too bad if you happen to be an excellent person, but
a Buddhist.


Doug, what is a 'Big Time Christian'? I know of none who say that.
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular,
and your New Year even Better!

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 14:23:51 -0500, "Jim Carter" wrote:


"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...
So which Big Time Cristians say the following?

"He decided that the only treatment they merited was to have their
fighters
killed, their women taken captive, and their property seized as booty.

Some Orientalists claim that Muhammad was cruel to the Jews, but this is
how determination should be. One must be firm when firmness is warranted,
and gentle when gentleness is warranted."

Pope Urban II issued orders that the Moslem peoples should be all killed and
the holy land freed from the non Christians.

The First Crusade was the most successful from a military point of view.
Accounts of this action are shocking. For example, historian Raymond of
Agiles described the capture of Jerusalem by the Crusaders in 1099:


"Some of our men cut off the heads of their enemies; others shot them with
arrows, so that they fell from the towers; others tortured them longer by
casting them into the flames. Piles of heads, hands and feet were to be seen
in the streets of the city. It was necessary to pick one's way over the
bodies of men and horses. But these were small matters compared to what
happened at the temple of Solomon, a place where religious services ware
ordinarily chanted. What happened there? If I tell the truth, it will exceed
your powers of belief. So let it suffice to say this much at least, that in
the temple and portico of Solomon, men rode in blood up to their knees and
bridle reins."

The Christians of that era were just as cruel and barbaric as what you are
attributing to the Moslems of the time.

Jim C.


Luckily, most of them are dead.
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular,
and your New Year even Better!

"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...
But Muslim leaders are calling for similar acts today. Name one "Big
Time
Christian" leader who is calling for a reenactment of the Crusades.

Most Christians have progressed into a culture of civility. Many Muslims
have not.

Pat Robertson, for one. Here is a little quote from his book

"If anybody understood what Hindus really believe, there would be no doubt
that they have no business administering government policies in a country
that favors freedom and equality. ... Can you imagine having the Ayatollah
Ruhollah Khomeini as defense minister, or Mahatma Gandhi as minister of
health, education, and welfare? The Hindu and Buddhist idea of karma and the
Muslim idea of kismet, or fate condemn the poor and the disabled to their
suffering. ... It's the will of Allah. These beliefs are nothing but abject
fatalism, and they would devastate the social gains this nation has made if
they were ever put into practice." --Pat Robertson's "The New World Order,"
page 219.

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 16:55:51 -0500, "Jim Carter" wrote:


"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...
But Muslim leaders are calling for similar acts today. Name one "Big
Time
Christian" leader who is calling for a reenactment of the Crusades.

Most Christians have progressed into a culture of civility. Many Muslims
have not.

Pat Robertson, for one. Here is a little quote from his book

"If anybody understood what Hindus really believe, there would be no doubt
that they have no business administering government policies in a country
that favors freedom and equality. ... Can you imagine having the Ayatollah
Ruhollah Khomeini as defense minister, or Mahatma Gandhi as minister of
health, education, and welfare? The Hindu and Buddhist idea of karma and the
Muslim idea of kismet, or fate condemn the poor and the disabled to their
suffering. ... It's the will of Allah. These beliefs are nothing but abject
fatalism, and they would devastate the social gains this nation has made if
they were ever put into practice." --Pat Robertson's "The New World Order,"
page 219.


Nothing there come's close to your claims.
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular,
and your New Year even Better!

"Jim Carter" wrote in message
.. .

"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...
But Muslim leaders are calling for similar acts today. Name one "Big
Time
Christian" leader who is calling for a reenactment of the Crusades.

Most Christians have progressed into a culture of civility. Many Muslims
have not.

Pat Robertson, for one. Here is a little quote from his book

"If anybody understood what Hindus really believe, there would be no doubt
that they have no business administering government policies in a country
that favors freedom and equality. ... Can you imagine having the Ayatollah
Ruhollah Khomeini as defense minister, or Mahatma Gandhi as minister of
health, education, and welfare? The Hindu and Buddhist idea of karma and
the
Muslim idea of kismet, or fate condemn the poor and the disabled to their
suffering. ... It's the will of Allah. These beliefs are nothing but
abject
fatalism, and they would devastate the social gains this nation has made
if
they were ever put into practice." --Pat Robertson's "The New World
Order,"
page 219.

Pat Roberson is an idiot. Anybody that pays attention to him is an idiot
too.

"Jim Carter" wrote in message
.. .

"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...
But Muslim leaders are calling for similar acts today. Name one "Big
Time
Christian" leader who is calling for a reenactment of the Crusades.

Most Christians have progressed into a culture of civility. Many Muslims
have not.

Pat Robertson, for one. Here is a little quote from his book

"If anybody understood what Hindus really believe, there would be no doubt
that they have no business administering government policies in a country
that favors freedom and equality. ... Can you imagine having the Ayatollah
Ruhollah Khomeini as defense minister, or Mahatma Gandhi as minister of
health, education, and welfare? The Hindu and Buddhist idea of karma and
the
Muslim idea of kismet, or fate condemn the poor and the disabled to their
suffering. ... It's the will of Allah. These beliefs are nothing but
abject
fatalism, and they would devastate the social gains this nation has made
if
they were ever put into practice." --Pat Robertson's "The New World
Order,"
page 219.


Nothing about killing the men, and enslaving the women like our Muslim
fundies want?

NOYB wrote:

Nothing about killing the men, and enslaving the women like our Muslim
fundies want?

Really? How about this:

Proposed 'Godly Fumigation' of Non-Christians

It is interesting, that termites don't build things, and the great
builders of our nation almost to a man have been Christians, because
Christians have the desire to build something. He is motivated by love
of man and God, so he builds. The people who have come into [our]
institutions [today] are primarily termites. They are into destroying
institutions that have been built by Christians, whether it is
universities, governments, our own traditions, that we have.... The
termites are in charge now, and that is not the way it ought to be, and
the time has arrived for a godly fumigation.
-- Pat Robertson, New York Magazine, August 18, 1986

And this:
Audience Participant: "I've been reading through the Book of Numbers
recently, and come across that passage in Chapter 31 about the
destruction of the Midianites. How do you explain that apparent
travesty of the destruction of that people with the just and holy God?"

Pat Robertson: The wars of extermination have given a lot of people
trouble unless they understand fully what was going on. The people in
the land of Palestine were very wicked. They were given over to
idolatry. They sacrificed their children. They had all kinds of
abominable sex practices. They were having sex apparently with animals.
They were having sex men with men and women with women. They were
committing adultery and fornication. They were serving idols. As I say,
they were offering their children up, and they were forsaking God.

God told the Israelites to kill them all: men, women and children; to
destroy them. And that seems like a terrible thing to do. Is it or
isn't it? Well, let us assume that there were two thousand of them or
ten thousand of them living in the land, or whatever number, I don't
have the exact number, but pick a number. And God said, "Kill them
all." Well, that would seem hard, wouldn't it? But that would be 10,000
people who probably would go to hell. But if they stayed and
reproduced, in thirty, forty or fifty or sixty or a hundred more years
there could conceivably be ... ten thousand would grow to a hundred, a
hundred thousand conceivably could grow to a million, and there would
be a million people who would have to spend an eternity in Hell! And it
is far more merciful to take away a few than to see in the future a
hundred years down the road, and say, "Well, I'll have to take away a
million people, that will be forever apart from God because the
abomination is there." It's like a contagion. God saw that there was no
cure for it. It wasn't going to change, and all they would do is cause
trouble for the Israelites and pull the Israelites away from God and
prevent the truth of God from reaching the earth. And so God in love --
and that was a loving thing -- took away a small number that he might
not have to take away a large number

"Jim Carter" wrote in message
.. .

"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...
But Muslim leaders are calling for similar acts today. Name one "Big
Time
Christian" leader who is calling for a reenactment of the Crusades.

Most Christians have progressed into a culture of civility. Many Muslims
have not.

Pat Robertson, for one. Here is a little quote from his book

"If anybody understood what Hindus really believe, there would be no doubt
that they have no business administering government policies in a country
that favors freedom and equality. ... Can you imagine having the Ayatollah
Ruhollah Khomeini as defense minister, or Mahatma Gandhi as minister of
health, education, and welfare? The Hindu and Buddhist idea of karma and
the
Muslim idea of kismet, or fate condemn the poor and the disabled to their
suffering. ... It's the will of Allah. These beliefs are nothing but
abject
fatalism, and they would devastate the social gains this nation has made
if
they were ever put into practice." --Pat Robertson's "The New World
Order,"
page 219.

It's interesting how he allows doubt as to whether he's saying Khomeini was
Hindu.

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 17:33:44 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

Sorta reminds me of what Big Time Christians say about how non-believers
will be subjected to some sort of horrible fate at some point in the
future.
Armageddon or whatever. Too bad if you happen to be an excellent person,
but
a Buddhist.


Doug, what is a 'Big Time Christian'? I know of none who say that.
--
John Herring

They're the ones with the biggest mouths, John. And, the ones who are so
eager to "share" their way of life with people who didn't ask for that
"favor".

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
"Jim Carter" wrote in message
.. .
"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...
But Muslim leaders are calling for similar acts today. Name one "Big
Time
Christian" leader who is calling for a reenactment of the Crusades.

Most Christians have progressed into a culture of civility. Many
Muslims
have not.
Pat Robertson, for one. Here is a little quote from his book

"If anybody understood what Hindus really believe, there would be no
doubt
that they have no business administering government policies in a
country
that favors freedom and equality. ... Can you imagine having the
Ayatollah
Ruhollah Khomeini as defense minister, or Mahatma Gandhi as minister of
health, education, and welfare? The Hindu and Buddhist idea of karma and
the
Muslim idea of kismet, or fate condemn the poor and the disabled to
their
suffering. ... It's the will of Allah. These beliefs are nothing but
abject
fatalism, and they would devastate the social gains this nation has made
if
they were ever put into practice." --Pat Robertson's "The New World
Order,"
page 219.


Nothing about killing the men, and enslaving the women like our Muslim
fundies want?


It figures you'd be an admirer of Pat Robertson.

Really? Where'd I say that?

I'm not a fan of extremists on either end of the spectrum.

But to suggest that the Christian right is anything like the Muslim
fundamentalists is an outright joke.




There's no real difference between Christian fundies and Muslim fundies,
in terms of "controlling" the population.

That's true for most religions. Don't eat meat on Fridays. Don't eat pork.
Don't commit adultry. Don't drink alcohol. Keep Holy the Sabbath. Do unto
to others...

If the time comes that the Christian fundies get what they want, the
executions will follow in short order.

LOL. You're ****ed in the head.