déjà vu all over again :Subaru
 

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:12:12 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 03:24:46 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote:

What's the most common vehicle?

=============================

Dodge Caravans are right up there with the best (worst).

Tranny problems most likely based on our experience.

I swear to you, I was going to say Dodge/Plymouth, but not the model.

Their engine blocks & pistons are machines to +/- 1/2 inch. Nice & tight.

déjà vu all over again :Subaru
 

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 13:48:40 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 17:36:53 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

Should we assume the Ford engineers also knew plastic could melt?

Someone did an analysis that showed the plastic would not melt until a
month after the warranty expired. After being hailed as a cost saving
genius, they were promoted into senior management to look for other
similar "opportunities". And so another once great industry slid into
decline...

You laugh - did you know on the newer Ford mid-size cars and smaller
like the Focus, that you can't just remove the brake rotors and turn
them? They have to be replaced? The last time I did the brakes on
the F-250, it was cheaper to buy new rotors rather than have the old
ones turned.

Marketing run amok, my friends. :)

Not so much marketing, as cafe standards. The fuel efficiency of engines
has not increased enough to keep up with the standards, and there is only so
much aerodynamics they can work with, so as a result they lighten the
load....I know several ford engineers (part of our local alumni group) and
they talk about the infights they get into over fractions of ounces for
individual parts, when it is all added up, the weight of the vehicle
decreases, increasing the fuel economy, the down side is, the parts wear
out quicker and break easier which equates to higher repair
costs........damn guvmint.

déjà vu all over again
 

Tom,

I am not a mechanical engineer, and I don't play one in Usenet, so my
knowledge base is very limited in this matter. The real reason I finally
gave up on all the additives is because I felt that any additive that would
really provide an oil company with a superior product, would be added to
their blend.

The reviews by mechanical engineers have always agreed with this, but that
does not mean Lucas Oil Stabilizer is not the wonder additive, but I would
be concerned about anything that caused my oil to foam up.


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:05:00 -0500, "Lord Reginald Smithers" The
fastest and most accurate Gun in the World wrote:

Do I understand you correctly, in your opinion, Lucas Oil Stabilizer is a
godsend for those using low RPM diesels, but you are not sure of higher
RPM
gas engines.

No, I am saying that my experience with Lucas Oil Stabilizer has been
positive and that I have no personal experience to the contrary. As
to higher RPM engines, perhaps the experimenter has a point, but I'd
have to question the size of the gears, the size of the experiment box
and just how fast those gears were turning. I found it kind of
interesting that the oil didn't climb the gears even without additives
either - so what did that prove?

It's a faulty experiment.

déjà vu all over again :Subaru
 

Tom,
I think that is a weight reduction to lower average fuel consumption, or at
least that is what I was told by Firestone.


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 13:48:40 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 17:36:53 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

Should we assume the Ford engineers also knew plastic could melt?

Someone did an analysis that showed the plastic would not melt until a
month after the warranty expired. After being hailed as a cost saving
genius, they were promoted into senior management to look for other
similar "opportunities". And so another once great industry slid into
decline...

You laugh - did you know on the newer Ford mid-size cars and smaller
like the Focus, that you can't just remove the brake rotors and turn
them? They have to be replaced? The last time I did the brakes on
the F-250, it was cheaper to buy new rotors rather than have the old
ones turned.

Marketing run amok, my friends. :)

déjà vu all over again
 

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 17:37:17 -0500, "Lord Reginald Smithers" The
fastest and most accurate Gun in the World wrote:

The reviews by mechanical engineers have always agreed with this, but that
does not mean Lucas Oil Stabilizer is not the wonder additive, but I would
be concerned about anything that caused my oil to foam up.

When you build a gear train, you don't just rely on rpm to lubricate -
there are pressure ports, the gears are raked, the oil bath has more
volume, etc.

I can build a 6x2x6 box and make oil foam under high rpm - it proves
nothing.

Yeah, but foaming oil *is* one of the reasons why you're not supposed to
overfill, at least with certain types of engines. I wonder why this is a
concern.

déjà vu all over again
 

info - at - swsports dot org

Photo sent.

déjà vu all over again :Subaru
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 03:24:46 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote:

What's the most common vehicle?

=============================

Dodge Caravans are right up there with the best (worst).

Tranny problems most likely based on our experience.

We've got a '97 Grand Caravan with 90,000 miles on the origianl
transmission. Got the 3.8L V6 in it. Our mechanic started putting in
synthetic trans fluid around 40,000.

The wife wants a new car but, the mini-van is still going strong!

déjà vu all over again :Subaru
 

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 20:17:53 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
. ..

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:12:12 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:


On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 03:24:46 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote:


What's the most common vehicle?

=============================

Dodge Caravans are right up there with the best (worst).

Tranny problems most likely based on our experience.

I swear to you, I was going to say Dodge/Plymouth, but not the model.

Their engine blocks & pistons are machines to +/- 1/2 inch. Nice & tight.


LOL!!

Is that why my 3.0 liter V6 only puts out 142 hp yet seems a bit hard on
gas?

déjà vu all over again
 

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 23:27:18 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

Yeah, but foaming oil *is* one of the reasons why you're not supposed to
overfill, at least with certain types of engines. I wonder why this is a
concern.

========================================

Foam is mostly air, and air doesn't lubricate all that well.

déjà vu all over again :Subaru
 

"Don White" wrote in message
...
Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 20:17:53 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:12:12 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:


On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 03:24:46 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote:


What's the most common vehicle?

=============================

Dodge Caravans are right up there with the best (worst).

Tranny problems most likely based on our experience.

I swear to you, I was going to say Dodge/Plymouth, but not the model.

Their engine blocks & pistons are machines to +/- 1/2 inch. Nice & tight.


LOL!!

Is that why my 3.0 liter V6 only puts out 142 hp yet seems a bit hard on
gas?

Bingo! Drive it into the ocean. It'll make great fish structure.

déjà vu all over again :Subaru
 

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 03:04:07 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Don White" wrote in message
...
Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 20:17:53 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
om...

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:12:12 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:


On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 03:24:46 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote:


What's the most common vehicle?

=============================

Dodge Caravans are right up there with the best (worst).

Tranny problems most likely based on our experience.

I swear to you, I was going to say Dodge/Plymouth, but not the model.

Their engine blocks & pistons are machines to +/- 1/2 inch. Nice &
tight.


LOL!!

Is that why my 3.0 liter V6 only puts out 142 hp yet seems a bit hard on
gas?

Bingo! Drive it into the ocean. It'll make great fish structure.

Can't do that - the enviro's will go berserk because you are
disturbing the natural habitat.

OK....flip it upside down over a large drop cloth, drain out all the fluids
and cigar butts blah blah blah.....is all this stuff worse than the zebra
mussels delivered here by some Russian tanker?

déjà vu all over again
 

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 21:55:39 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 23:27:18 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

Yeah, but foaming oil *is* one of the reasons why you're not supposed to
overfill, at least with certain types of engines. I wonder why this is a
concern.

========================================

Foam is mostly air, and air doesn't lubricate all that well.

That is true, but it doesn't take a lot of effort to stir up a heavy
oil and turn it into milk shakes. On my old Super M with the torque
amplifier, the oil in the gear case would turn tan after shifting the
PTO out of high speed cutting to low speed bailing. I never used an
additive in that and it still did it.

I'm just suspicious of the whole test - it didn't seem very controlled
and appeared to be designed to prove a point rather than be a true
experiment on viscosity.

I think we should get together and do the test with two large stainless
steel mixing bowls and a couple of whisks. Regardless of the results, we
should pour the oil all over JohnH, drop him into the Potomac, and dial the
guvmint's oil spill emergency number. I gotta go see if the cat's frozen to
death yet. I'll be right back.

déjà vu all over again
 

Around 12/13/2005 3:20 AM, Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 03:55:55 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

I don't have a heavy foot and rarely "tromp on it".


My kids won't drive with me because I take my time getting where I
need to go. I have a '92 Escort that I bought for gas price reasons
for just around town and I don't think that car has EVER gone over 50
mph - I literally bought it from the proverbial little old lady who
only drove it to the grocery store and church. :)

Be very, very wary of a car only driven by the proverbial little old
lady to the grocery store and church...



My '83 V6 Mustang was just such a car (it was my grandma's): it saw the
high side of 30 MPH maybe once in a blue moon for the first 50,000 miles
and 13 years of it's life, and, other than regular oil changes, I'm
fairly certain routine maintenance was only performed if something major
broke. Not surprisingly, that didn't happen often.

When I got the Mustang, it wouldn't idle properly and got maybe 12 MPG,
and only made it to freeway speeds with severe initial trepidation.
After a carb rebuild and thorough tuneup, it ran great and saw an
all-time high of 21 MPG @ 65 MPH before settling down to a consistent
17-19 MPG in mixed conditions.

Now, almost 10 years later and with an additional 70,000 virtually
trouble free miles, it's starting to get a little tired (noisy valves,
leaking oil seals) ahead of it's time, all because it was driven by the
proverbial little old lady early in it's life.



Ah well, no reason to mourn my poor little Mustang: At some undefined
point it'll be getting either a 5.0 or a 5.8 conversion. :)

--
~/Garth - 1966 Glastron V-142 Skiflite: "Blue-Boat"
"There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing about in boats."
-Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows

déjà vu all over again
 

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 03:28:51 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

Regardless of the results, we
should pour the oil all over JohnH, drop him into the Potomac, and dial the
guvmint's oil spill emergency number.

=================================

Why stop with John? I'm sure we could find some other worthy
candidates.

Putting all the half baked conspiracy theories aside, if additives are
such a good thing, why aren't the major producers already adding them?
They are already using the additives that research has shown to either
be helpful or are necessary. They have vast resources for development
and testing, and would do just about anything to get a leg up on the
competition.

Sorry, but I don't buy it. Always liked that nice minty smell of
Marvel Mystery Oil however, and my old Atomic 4 seemed to do OK being
winterized with it.

déjà vu all over again :Subaru
 

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 03:16:39 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

.is all this stuff worse than the zebra
mussels delivered here by some Russian tanker?

====================================

Zebra mussels are given credit in some circles for having cleaned up
Lake Ontario.

déjà vu all over again
 

"Garth Almgren" wrote in message
...
Around 12/13/2005 3:20 AM, Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 03:55:55 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

I don't have a heavy foot and rarely "tromp on it".


My kids won't drive with me because I take my time getting where I
need to go. I have a '92 Escort that I bought for gas price reasons
for just around town and I don't think that car has EVER gone over 50
mph - I literally bought it from the proverbial little old lady who
only drove it to the grocery store and church. :)

Be very, very wary of a car only driven by the proverbial little old
lady to the grocery store and church...



My '83 V6 Mustang was just such a car (it was my grandma's): it saw the
high side of 30 MPH maybe once in a blue moon for the first 50,000 miles
and 13 years of it's life, and, other than regular oil changes, I'm
fairly certain routine maintenance was only performed if something major
broke. Not surprisingly, that didn't happen often.

When I got the Mustang, it wouldn't idle properly and got maybe 12 MPG,
and only made it to freeway speeds with severe initial trepidation.
After a carb rebuild and thorough tuneup, it ran great and saw an
all-time high of 21 MPG @ 65 MPH before settling down to a consistent
17-19 MPG in mixed conditions.

Now, almost 10 years later and with an additional 70,000 virtually
trouble free miles, it's starting to get a little tired (noisy valves,
leaking oil seals) ahead of it's time, all because it was driven by the
proverbial little old lady early in it's life.



Ah well, no reason to mourn my poor little Mustang: At some undefined
point it'll be getting either a 5.0 or a 5.8 conversion. :)

--
~/Garth - 1966 Glastron V-142 Skiflite: "Blue-Boat"
"There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing about in boats."
-Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows

Worse worn engine I ever got involved with was an old 51 Ford Flathead. Was
driven by an old Italian in Oakand, and I think it never went more than 3
miles in a single trip. 48k miles back in about 1971. Friends kid hit the
car and they bought it off the guy. Engine had at least an 3/16" wear ring
at the top of the cylinders.

déjà vu all over again :Subaru
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 03:16:39 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

.is all this stuff worse than the zebra
mussels delivered here by some Russian tanker?

====================================

Zebra mussels are given credit in some circles for having cleaned up
Lake Ontario.


Actually, DEC biologists are beginning to find them in the stomachs of
smallmouth bass and lake trout. These fish have discovered a new snack.

déjà vu all over again :Subaru
 

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 12:22:52 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

Actually, DEC biologists are beginning to find them in the stomachs of
smallmouth bass and lake trout. These fish have discovered a new snack.

=================================

Probably very tasty sauted in a nice garlic butter sauce.

déjà vu all over again :Subaru
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 12:22:52 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

Actually, DEC biologists are beginning to find them in the stomachs of
smallmouth bass and lake trout. These fish have discovered a new snack.

=================================

Probably very tasty sauted in a nice garlic butter sauce.



There's no such thing as too much garlic on food.



The kids prepared a birthday dinner for my wife last night consisting of
shrimp sautéed in a heavy garlic butter sauce and served over linguini. The
final touch was a nice sprinkling of freshly grated parmesan. It was
delicious and restaurant quality.

déjà vu all over again
 

Tom,
I can tell from your posts that you are a jack of all trades and have a
strong mechanical background. Why did you start using the additive in the
first place? Did you have a problem or was it prophylactic?


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 23:18:57 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 03:28:51 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

Regardless of the results, we
should pour the oil all over JohnH, drop him into the Potomac, and dial
the
guvmint's oil spill emergency number.

=================================

Why stop with John? I'm sure we could find some other worthy
candidates.

Putting all the half baked conspiracy theories aside, if additives are
such a good thing, why aren't the major producers already adding them?
They are already using the additives that research has shown to either
be helpful or are necessary. They have vast resources for development
and testing, and would do just about anything to get a leg up on the
competition.

Sorry, but I don't buy it. Always liked that nice minty smell of
Marvel Mystery Oil however, and my old Atomic 4 seemed to do OK being
winterized with it.

I understand your viewpoint and in some ways agree with you. However,
I've used it since day one, it hasn't hurt and based on discussions
here and other venues, it seems to help me, so my net experience is
positive, not negative.

As to the test, I think it was poorly designed and proved nothing.

déjà vu all over again :Subaru
 

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 23:22:02 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 03:16:39 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

.is all this stuff worse than the zebra
mussels delivered here by some Russian tanker?

====================================

Zebra mussels are given credit in some circles for having cleaned up
Lake Ontario.

They are also proving to be a food source for fish species like
smallmouth and crappie. I know when I was up in the St. Lawrence a
couple of years ago, the water was as clear as it could get, you could
easily sight fish for pike and smallmouth and some of the walleye were
spectacular.

Just based on anecdotal evidence, it would seem that these aren't the
threat everyone seems to think they are..

Sure they are. Power and water plants have to clean them out of their
intake water pipes so they are not clogged.

Also:
============================
" Besides clogging pipes and devouring most of the available microscopic
food supply, zebra mussels may present a health hazard by increasing human
and wildlife exposure to organic pollutants such as PCBs and PAHs. Studies
have shown that zebra mussels can accumulate the pollutants in their tissues
in concentrations 300,000 times greater than in the environment. They
deposit these pollutants as pseudofeces, loose pellets of mucous mixed with
particulate matter that they filter from the water. Scavenging animals
that eat the pseudofeces may pass these pollutants up the food chain. When
the zebra mussels coat bathing beaches, the sharp-edged mussels cut the
tender feet of swimmers. "

http://octopus.gma.org/surfing/human/zebra.html
============================================

Have you ever stepped on a rock filled with these critters when you were
swimming and barefoot? I have, as have all of my family members at one time
or another. They cut up your feet pretty bad and if left untreated can lead
to infection.

déjà vu all over again :Subaru
 

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 23:22:02 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 03:16:39 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

.is all this stuff worse than the zebra
mussels delivered here by some Russian tanker?

====================================

Zebra mussels are given credit in some circles for having cleaned up
Lake Ontario.

They are also proving to be a food source for fish species like
smallmouth and crappie. I know when I was up in the St. Lawrence a
couple of years ago, the water was as clear as it could get, you could
easily sight fish for pike and smallmouth and some of the walleye were
spectacular.

Just based on anecdotal evidence, it would seem that these aren't the
threat everyone seems to think they are..


The jury is still out, yes the wall is clearer and now sunlight reaches
the lake bottom (In Lake St. Clair anyway) it is beneficial for some fish
but harmful to others... They are still a problem in intake
pipes.......they even clog up the outdrive intakes on my boat.

déjà vu all over again
 

Do you use it in your gas engines or strictly the diesels due to the
experience of the mechanic?

The reason I am asking is most people will keep their diesel engines till
the end of the earth, and they will commonly be rebuilt, so the mechanic can
see if the additive caused any problems.

Gas engines on the other hand are not kept as long, and it is hard to tell
if the additive helped or hurt the engine.

Even with your positive experience, unless I see some scientific studies, I
am going to hope the oil manufactures are providing the best product
available with the best combination of additives. I would think they have
checked out Lucas to see if it improved the performance of their oil.








"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 12:16:30 -0500, "Wm Shakespeare Smithers" The
WordSmith wrote:

Tom,
I can tell from your posts that you are a jack of all trades and have a
strong mechanical background. Why did you start using the additive in the
first place? Did you have a problem or was it prophylactic?

Strictly semi-prophylactic based on the experience of the local Allis
Chalmers/International/tractor du jour dealer's mechanic who is really
one of the best diesel mechanics that ever lived.

déjà vu all over again
 

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...


Strictly semi-prophylactic based on the experience of the local Allis
Chalmers/International/tractor du jour dealer's mechanic who is really
one of the best diesel mechanics that ever lived.

Does he work on Fords? It is, after all, an International engine.

Nothing yet from the dealership.

Eisboch

déjà vu all over again
 

Tom,

You have peaked my interest enough that I am going to see what additional
data I can find. I have two kids in college, one at Columbia another
Michigan, so I am looking at a way to keep my two cars, till I pay off these
college loans. I think I should have them paid by 2046.

Thanks for your input.


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 12:33:45 -0500, "Wm Shakespeare Smithers" The
WordSmith wrote:

Do you use it in your gas engines or strictly the diesels due to the
experience of the mechanic?

I use it in my lawn tractor (25 hp Gravely), but I don't use it in my
'70 Corvette. I do use it in my Kawasaki 15 Kw diesel generator, my
truck and the Cub that I still own - I used it in the Super M I
restored with the exception of the gear case only because of the
volume.

The reason I am asking is most people will keep their diesel engines till
the end of the earth, and they will commonly be rebuilt, so the mechanic
can
see if the additive caused any problems.

True.

Gas engines on the other hand are not kept as long, and it is hard to tell
if the additive helped or hurt the engine.

Even with your positive experience, unless I see some scientific studies,
I
am going to hope the oil manufactures are providing the best product
available with the best combination of additives. I would think they have
checked out Lucas to see if it improved the performance of their oil.

I don't want to sound all weirdo meta-physical here, but I believe in
the stuff and it seems to work for me. I've heard stories about
people who aren't as sold and their experiences are different.

As I said to Bassy, I know guys who use Marvel Mystery Oil at 200:1
and have for years - no problems on high mileage engines - swear by
it. I use it in my Corvette at 100:1 for anti-knock. I've been told
it won't work for anti-knock and that is a myth/urban legend. I don't
have a anti-knock problem with the car so explain that.

As strange as this sounds, and strictly in my opinion, if you have
faith in something, it will work. I've been told that my 7.3 diesel
will not give me the kind of mileage I claim - but it does and I can
independently confirm that from a non-impeachable source. I have
faith in my truck.

I'll give you another example. The '92 Ford Escort I bought for
around town got 28.585 mpg the first time I checked the mileage. The
second time it got 27.678 mpg. It has never varied between those two
figures. Ever. I have complete and total faith that it will continue
that way for ever and it will.

The booing and hssing may now commence - go ahead - laugh, I"m a big
guy, I can take it. :)

Later,

Tom

déjà vu all over again
 

If you ever travel up this way to visit your Michigan kid, left me
know....I'll buy you a lunch

"Wm Shakespeare Smithers" The WordSmith wrote in message
. ..
Tom,

You have peaked my interest enough that I am going to see what additional
data I can find. I have two kids in college, one at Columbia another
Michigan, so I am looking at a way to keep my two cars, till I pay off
these
college loans. I think I should have them paid by 2046.

Thanks for your input.


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 12:33:45 -0500, "Wm Shakespeare Smithers" The
WordSmith wrote:

Do you use it in your gas engines or strictly the diesels due to the
experience of the mechanic?

I use it in my lawn tractor (25 hp Gravely), but I don't use it in my
'70 Corvette. I do use it in my Kawasaki 15 Kw diesel generator, my
truck and the Cub that I still own - I used it in the Super M I
restored with the exception of the gear case only because of the
volume.

The reason I am asking is most people will keep their diesel engines
till
the end of the earth, and they will commonly be rebuilt, so the mechanic
can
see if the additive caused any problems.

True.

Gas engines on the other hand are not kept as long, and it is hard to
tell
if the additive helped or hurt the engine.

Even with your positive experience, unless I see some scientific
studies,
I
am going to hope the oil manufactures are providing the best product
available with the best combination of additives. I would think they
have
checked out Lucas to see if it improved the performance of their oil.

I don't want to sound all weirdo meta-physical here, but I believe in
the stuff and it seems to work for me. I've heard stories about
people who aren't as sold and their experiences are different.

As I said to Bassy, I know guys who use Marvel Mystery Oil at 200:1
and have for years - no problems on high mileage engines - swear by
it. I use it in my Corvette at 100:1 for anti-knock. I've been told
it won't work for anti-knock and that is a myth/urban legend. I don't
have a anti-knock problem with the car so explain that.

As strange as this sounds, and strictly in my opinion, if you have
faith in something, it will work. I've been told that my 7.3 diesel
will not give me the kind of mileage I claim - but it does and I can
independently confirm that from a non-impeachable source. I have
faith in my truck.

I'll give you another example. The '92 Ford Escort I bought for
around town got 28.585 mpg the first time I checked the mileage. The
second time it got 27.678 mpg. It has never varied between those two
figures. Ever. I have complete and total faith that it will continue
that way for ever and it will.

The booing and hssing may now commence - go ahead - laugh, I"m a big
guy, I can take it. :)

Later,

Tom

déjà vu all over again
 

Paul,
Sure thing. I did drive up with a SUV full of crap, it was one hell of a
long trip. She will store the crap in a rental place over the summer. But
my wife likes to find an excuse to go up and see the kids.


"P Fritz" wrote in message
...
If you ever travel up this way to visit your Michigan kid, left me
know....I'll buy you a lunch

"Wm Shakespeare Smithers" The WordSmith wrote in message
. ..
Tom,

You have peaked my interest enough that I am going to see what additional
data I can find. I have two kids in college, one at Columbia another
Michigan, so I am looking at a way to keep my two cars, till I pay off
these
college loans. I think I should have them paid by 2046.

Thanks for your input.


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 12:33:45 -0500, "Wm Shakespeare Smithers" The
WordSmith wrote:

Do you use it in your gas engines or strictly the diesels due to the
experience of the mechanic?

I use it in my lawn tractor (25 hp Gravely), but I don't use it in my
'70 Corvette. I do use it in my Kawasaki 15 Kw diesel generator, my
truck and the Cub that I still own - I used it in the Super M I
restored with the exception of the gear case only because of the
volume.

The reason I am asking is most people will keep their diesel engines
till
the end of the earth, and they will commonly be rebuilt, so the
mechanic
can
see if the additive caused any problems.

True.

Gas engines on the other hand are not kept as long, and it is hard to
tell
if the additive helped or hurt the engine.

Even with your positive experience, unless I see some scientific
studies,
I
am going to hope the oil manufactures are providing the best product
available with the best combination of additives. I would think they
have
checked out Lucas to see if it improved the performance of their oil.

I don't want to sound all weirdo meta-physical here, but I believe in
the stuff and it seems to work for me. I've heard stories about
people who aren't as sold and their experiences are different.

As I said to Bassy, I know guys who use Marvel Mystery Oil at 200:1
and have for years - no problems on high mileage engines - swear by
it. I use it in my Corvette at 100:1 for anti-knock. I've been told
it won't work for anti-knock and that is a myth/urban legend. I don't
have a anti-knock problem with the car so explain that.

As strange as this sounds, and strictly in my opinion, if you have
faith in something, it will work. I've been told that my 7.3 diesel
will not give me the kind of mileage I claim - but it does and I can
independently confirm that from a non-impeachable source. I have
faith in my truck.

I'll give you another example. The '92 Ford Escort I bought for
around town got 28.585 mpg the first time I checked the mileage. The
second time it got 27.678 mpg. It has never varied between those two
figures. Ever. I have complete and total faith that it will continue
that way for ever and it will.

The booing and hssing may now commence - go ahead - laugh, I"m a big
guy, I can take it. :)

Later,

Tom

déjà vu all over again
 

If you are up during the summer, we could take a trip down the detroit
river.


I remember when I went off to college, just two suitcases (flew down there)
and one ups box my parents shipped. Four years later I returned with a car
stuffed full, towing a trailer stuffed full. I don't know where all the crap
came from.

I am out in Ann Arbor a lot......most of our work is just south of the
University.


"Wm Shakespeare Smithers" The WordSmith wrote in message
. ..
Paul,
Sure thing. I did drive up with a SUV full of crap, it was one hell of a
long trip. She will store the crap in a rental place over the summer.
But
my wife likes to find an excuse to go up and see the kids.


"P Fritz" wrote in message
...
If you ever travel up this way to visit your Michigan kid, left me
know....I'll buy you a lunch

"Wm Shakespeare Smithers" The WordSmith wrote in message
. ..
Tom,

You have peaked my interest enough that I am going to see what
additional
data I can find. I have two kids in college, one at Columbia another
Michigan, so I am looking at a way to keep my two cars, till I pay off
these
college loans. I think I should have them paid by 2046.

Thanks for your input.


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 12:33:45 -0500, "Wm Shakespeare Smithers" The
WordSmith wrote:

Do you use it in your gas engines or strictly the diesels due to the
experience of the mechanic?

I use it in my lawn tractor (25 hp Gravely), but I don't use it in my
'70 Corvette. I do use it in my Kawasaki 15 Kw diesel generator, my
truck and the Cub that I still own - I used it in the Super M I
restored with the exception of the gear case only because of the
volume.

The reason I am asking is most people will keep their diesel engines
till
the end of the earth, and they will commonly be rebuilt, so the
mechanic
can
see if the additive caused any problems.

True.

Gas engines on the other hand are not kept as long, and it is hard to
tell
if the additive helped or hurt the engine.

Even with your positive experience, unless I see some scientific
studies,
I
am going to hope the oil manufactures are providing the best product
available with the best combination of additives. I would think they
have
checked out Lucas to see if it improved the performance of their oil.

I don't want to sound all weirdo meta-physical here, but I believe in
the stuff and it seems to work for me. I've heard stories about
people who aren't as sold and their experiences are different.

As I said to Bassy, I know guys who use Marvel Mystery Oil at 200:1
and have for years - no problems on high mileage engines - swear by
it. I use it in my Corvette at 100:1 for anti-knock. I've been told
it won't work for anti-knock and that is a myth/urban legend. I
don't
have a anti-knock problem with the car so explain that.

As strange as this sounds, and strictly in my opinion, if you have
faith in something, it will work. I've been told that my 7.3 diesel
will not give me the kind of mileage I claim - but it does and I can
independently confirm that from a non-impeachable source. I have
faith in my truck.

I'll give you another example. The '92 Ford Escort I bought for
around town got 28.585 mpg the first time I checked the mileage. The
second time it got 27.678 mpg. It has never varied between those two
figures. Ever. I have complete and total faith that it will continue
that way for ever and it will.

The booing and hssing may now commence - go ahead - laugh, I"m a big
guy, I can take it. :)

Later,

Tom

déjà vu all over again
 

"Wm Shakespeare Smithers" The WordSmith wrote in message
. ..
Tom,

You have peaked my interest enough that I am going to see what additional
data I can find. I have two kids in college, one at Columbia another
Michigan, so I am looking at a way to keep my two cars, till I pay off
these
college loans. I think I should have them paid by 2046.

Thanks for your input.



Please tell me it is not that dreaded school in Ann Arbor........you know,
the one with the silly looking football helmets.

déjà vu all over again
 

We looked at UVA, and I thought it was a good school in a great location.
My kids had very specific criteria for what they were looking for, and they
knew it as soon as we would drive on campus.


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
Wm Shakespeare Smithers wrote:
Tom,

You have peaked my interest enough that I am going to see what additional
data I can find. I have two kids in college, one at Columbia another
Michigan, so I am looking at a way to keep my two cars, till I pay off
these
college loans. I think I should have them paid by 2046.

Thanks for your input.


I have a second cousin by former marriage (I think that is the
relationship) who lives in Michigan, got accepted to Michigan and for
reasons neither he nor anyone else can explain wants to go to UVa. Now,
Charlottesville is a lovely little city, really, but I'd pick Michigan for
academics over UVa. But the girls at UVa, they are something to behold. If
you can.

déjà vu all over again
 

JimH,

You sound like you are jealous of a good football team. ; )

Remember the movie the Big Chill?


" JimH" wrote in message
...

"Wm Shakespeare Smithers" The WordSmith wrote in message
. ..
Tom,

You have peaked my interest enough that I am going to see what additional
data I can find. I have two kids in college, one at Columbia another
Michigan, so I am looking at a way to keep my two cars, till I pay off
these
college loans. I think I should have them paid by 2046.

Thanks for your input.



Please tell me it is not that dreaded school in Ann Arbor........you know,
the one with the silly looking football helmets.

déjà vu all over again
 

"Wm Shakespeare Smithers" The WordSmith wrote in message
...
JimH,

You sound like you are jealous of a good football team. ; )


Jealous? How funny! Remind me again..........who won this year's *big*
game and when was the last National Championship that team with the ugly
football helmet won?



Remember the movie the Big Chill?


Yep.....and they also made fun of the ugly football helmet.

But they were also all potheads. Is that the connection you are trying to
make? ;-)




" JimH" wrote in message
...

"Wm Shakespeare Smithers" The WordSmith wrote in message
. ..
Tom,

You have peaked my interest enough that I am going to see what
additional
data I can find. I have two kids in college, one at Columbia another
Michigan, so I am looking at a way to keep my two cars, till I pay off
these
college loans. I think I should have them paid by 2046.

Thanks for your input.



Please tell me it is not that dreaded school in Ann Arbor........you
know, the one with the silly looking football helmets.

déjà vu all over again
 

JimH,

Most likely, Kevin and I sat together and smoked some home grown while
watching the movie.

I am curious why the football helmet is ugly? I could understand if you
wanted to know what the hell it was, but it really isn't ugly.

I am curious why you haven't asked me about the "Lions", now there is a
football team.




" JimH" wrote in message
...

"Wm Shakespeare Smithers" The WordSmith wrote in message
...
JimH,

You sound like you are jealous of a good football team. ; )


Jealous? How funny! Remind me again..........who won this year's *big*
game and when was the last National Championship that team with the ugly
football helmet won?



Remember the movie the Big Chill?


Yep.....and they also made fun of the ugly football helmet.

But they were also all potheads. Is that the connection you are trying
to make? ;-)




" JimH" wrote in message
...

"Wm Shakespeare Smithers" The WordSmith wrote in message
. ..
Tom,

You have peaked my interest enough that I am going to see what
additional
data I can find. I have two kids in college, one at Columbia another
Michigan, so I am looking at a way to keep my two cars, till I pay off
these
college loans. I think I should have them paid by 2046.

Thanks for your input.



Please tell me it is not that dreaded school in Ann Arbor........you
know, the one with the silly looking football helmets.

déjà vu all over again
 

By the way, in case you didn't know the Lions play in one of the toughest
conferences and except for some of the "Football Factories", they had an
undefeated season. ; )

Sat 09/17/05 Fordham Bronx, N.Y. W, 23-17
Sat 09/24/05 DUQUESNE Lawrence A. Wien Stadium W, 23-13
Sat 10/01/05 Princeton* Princeton, N.J. L, 43-3
Sat 10/08/05 Lafayette Easton, Pa. Lafayette TV Network L, 14-7
Sat 10/15/05 PENN* (H) Lawrence A. Wien Stadium L, 16-44
Sat 10/22/05 Dartmouth* Hanover, N.H. YES Network L, 17-6
Sat 10/29/05 YALE* Lawrence A. Wien Stadium L, 37-3
Sat 11/05/05 HARVARD* Lawrence A. Wien Stadium L, 55-7
Sat 11/12/05 Cornell* Ithaca, N.Y. L, 45-7
Sat 11/19/05 BROWN* Lawrence A. Wien Stadium YES Network L, 55-21


This has been their best year in over 50 yrs. They trounced Fordham and
Duquesne (whoever the hell they are)



" JimH" wrote in message
...

"Wm Shakespeare Smithers" The WordSmith wrote in message
...
JimH,

You sound like you are jealous of a good football team. ; )


Jealous? How funny! Remind me again..........who won this year's *big*
game and when was the last National Championship that team with the ugly
football helmet won?



Remember the movie the Big Chill?


Yep.....and they also made fun of the ugly football helmet.

But they were also all potheads. Is that the connection you are trying
to make? ;-)




" JimH" wrote in message
...

"Wm Shakespeare Smithers" The WordSmith wrote in message
. ..
Tom,

You have peaked my interest enough that I am going to see what
additional
data I can find. I have two kids in college, one at Columbia another
Michigan, so I am looking at a way to keep my two cars, till I pay off
these
college loans. I think I should have them paid by 2046.

Thanks for your input.



Please tell me it is not that dreaded school in Ann Arbor........you
know, the one with the silly looking football helmets.

déjà vu all over again :Subaru
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 12:22:52 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

Actually, DEC biologists are beginning to find them in the stomachs of
smallmouth bass and lake trout. These fish have discovered a new snack.

=================================

Probably very tasty sauted in a nice garlic butter sauce.



There's no such thing as too much garlic on food.




--
You Voted for Bush? How embarrassing!

During the Gilroy Garlic Festival, everything is Garlic oriented. Even the
ice cream. I understand the taste is OK for a minute of too, and then it
requires Peppermint Schnapps to remove the after tase.

déjà vu all over again
 

Tom,
But be honest, they have some nice looking helmets don't they? In an
abstract sort of way.

I really do not keep up with sports, so I really had to look up the helmets
to see what was so ugly about them.


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 17:48:12 -0500, " JimH" wrote:


"Wm Shakespeare Smithers" The WordSmith wrote in message
m...
Tom,

You have peaked my interest enough that I am going to see what
additional
data I can find. I have two kids in college, one at Columbia another
Michigan, so I am looking at a way to keep my two cars, till I pay off
these
college loans. I think I should have them paid by 2046.

Thanks for your input.

Please tell me it is not that dreaded school in Ann Arbor........you know,
the one with the silly looking football helmets.

You mean ~~ snerk ~~ the "wolverines".

BBAAWWWAAAHHHHHAAAA!!!!!!

déjà vu all over again :Subaru
 

My wife made an artichoke/spinach dip last week. The last time she made it,
I said it could use some more garlic to give it some more punch.

She proved me wrong. You can put too much garlic in a dish.


"Bill McKee" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 12:22:52 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

Actually, DEC biologists are beginning to find them in the stomachs of
smallmouth bass and lake trout. These fish have discovered a new snack.

=================================

Probably very tasty sauted in a nice garlic butter sauce.



There's no such thing as too much garlic on food.




--
You Voted for Bush? How embarrassing!

During the Gilroy Garlic Festival, everything is Garlic oriented. Even
the ice cream. I understand the taste is OK for a minute of too, and then
it requires Peppermint Schnapps to remove the after tase.

déjà vu all over again :Subaru
 

On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 01:02:57 GMT, "Bill McKee"
wrote:

During the Gilroy Garlic Festival, everything is Garlic oriented. Even the
ice cream. I understand the taste is OK for a minute of too, and then it
requires Peppermint Schnapps to remove the after tase.

Sounds like a good cure.

déjà vu all over again
 

A good football team is 7-4?



"Wm Shakespeare Smithers" The WordSmith wrote in message
...
JimH,

You sound like you are jealous of a good football team. ; )

Remember the movie the Big Chill?


" JimH" wrote in message
...

"Wm Shakespeare Smithers" The WordSmith wrote in message
. ..
Tom,

You have peaked my interest enough that I am going to see what
additional
data I can find. I have two kids in college, one at Columbia another
Michigan, so I am looking at a way to keep my two cars, till I pay off
these
college loans. I think I should have them paid by 2046.

Thanks for your input.



Please tell me it is not that dreaded school in Ann Arbor........you
know,
the one with the silly looking football helmets.

déjà vu all over again
 

Duquesne is a Pa. school......several of by H.S. classmates went there.
And here I thought you were talking about the pathetic Lions of NFL non-fame


"Wm Shakespeare Smithers" The WordSmith wrote in message
...
By the way, in case you didn't know the Lions play in one of the
toughest
conferences and except for some of the "Football Factories", they had an
undefeated season. ; )

Sat 09/17/05 Fordham Bronx, N.Y. W, 23-17
Sat 09/24/05 DUQUESNE Lawrence A. Wien Stadium W, 23-13
Sat 10/01/05 Princeton* Princeton, N.J. L, 43-3
Sat 10/08/05 Lafayette Easton, Pa. Lafayette TV Network L, 14-7
Sat 10/15/05 PENN* (H) Lawrence A. Wien Stadium L, 16-44
Sat 10/22/05 Dartmouth* Hanover, N.H. YES Network L, 17-6
Sat 10/29/05 YALE* Lawrence A. Wien Stadium L, 37-3
Sat 11/05/05 HARVARD* Lawrence A. Wien Stadium L, 55-7
Sat 11/12/05 Cornell* Ithaca, N.Y. L, 45-7
Sat 11/19/05 BROWN* Lawrence A. Wien Stadium YES Network L, 55-21


This has been their best year in over 50 yrs. They trounced Fordham and
Duquesne (whoever the hell they are)



" JimH" wrote in message
...

"Wm Shakespeare Smithers" The WordSmith wrote in message
...
JimH,

You sound like you are jealous of a good football team. ; )


Jealous? How funny! Remind me again..........who won this year's
*big*
game and when was the last National Championship that team with the
ugly
football helmet won?



Remember the movie the Big Chill?


Yep.....and they also made fun of the ugly football helmet.

But they were also all potheads. Is that the connection you are
trying
to make? ;-)




" JimH" wrote in message
...

"Wm Shakespeare Smithers" The WordSmith wrote in message
. ..
Tom,

You have peaked my interest enough that I am going to see what
additional
data I can find. I have two kids in college, one at Columbia
another
Michigan, so I am looking at a way to keep my two cars, till I pay
off
these
college loans. I think I should have them paid by 2046.

Thanks for your input.



Please tell me it is not that dreaded school in Ann Arbor........you
know, the one with the silly looking football helmets.