OT--He was wrong then, and he's about to repeat the mistake
 

In 1993, Representive Murth urged President Clinton to withdraw our troops
from Somalia:


"Our welcome has been worn out," Rep Murtha told NBC's "Today" show in Sept.
1993, after the Mogadishu battle cost the lives of 18 U.S. Rangers.
The Pennsylvania Democrat announced that President Clinton had been
"listening to our suggestions. And I think you'll see him move those troops
out very quickly."





In 1996, bin Laden's Declaration of War on the US made specific mention of
the 1993 withdrawal of US troops from Somalia. bin Laden used it as
propaganda to help recruit more terrorists:

"But your most disgraceful case was in Somalia; where- after vigorous
propaganda about the power of the USA and its post cold war leadership of
the new world order- you moved tens of thousands of international force,
including twenty eight thousands American solders into Somalia. However,
when tens of your solders were killed in minor battles and one American
Pilot was dragged in the streets of Mogadishu you left the area carrying
disappointment, humiliation, defeat and your dead with you. Clinton appeared
in front of the whole world threatening and promising revenge , but these
threats were merely a preparation for withdrawal. You have been disgraced by
Allah and you withdrew; the extent of your impotence and weaknesses became
very clear. It was a pleasure for the "heart" of every Muslim and a remedy
to the "chests" of believing nations to see you defeated in the three
Islamic cities of Beirut , Aden and Mogadishu."



Now, in 2005, Murtha wants to repeat the mistake:



"I believe before the Iraqi elections, scheduled for mid December, the Iraqi
people and the emerging government must be put on notice that the United
States will IMMEDIATELY REDEPLOY. All of Iraq must know that Iraq is free.
Free from United States occupation. I believe this will send a signal to the
Sunnis to join the political process for the good of a "free" Iraq.


My plan calls:

To immediately redeploy U.S. troops consistent with the safety of U.S.
forces.

To create a quick reaction force in the region.

To create an over- the- horizon presence of Marines.

To diplomatically pursue security and stability in Iraq

This war needs to be personalized. As I said before I have visited with the
severely wounded of this war. They are suffering.

Because we in Congress are charged with sending our sons and daughters into
battle, it is our responsibility, our obligation is to speak out for them.
That's why I am speaking out.

Our military has done everything that has been asked of them, the U.S. can
not accomplish anything further in Iraq militarily. IT IS TIME TO BRING THEM
HOME."

OT--He was wrong then, and he's about to repeat the mistake
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
In 1993, Representive Murth


I'm sure you'll do a wonderful job convincing yourself and a few of the
other righties.

Your boy Bush is heading for history's dumpster.

So you have no comment on the fact that Murtha urged the removal of troops
from Somalia in 1993, and bin Laden used that specific retreat as propaganda
material in a fatwa he issued 3 years later declaring war on the US?



BTW--Today's "Bush Approval rating":


Monday November 21, 2005--Forty-five percent (45%) of American adults
approve of the way George W. Bush is performing his role as President.
Fifty-four percent (54%) of Americans Disapprove of the President's
performance.

Among Republicans, 78% give the President their Approval. That view is
shared by 19% of Democrats and 36% of those not affiliated with either major
political party.





http://www.rasmussenreports.com/Bush_Job_Approval.htm

OT--He was wrong then, and he's about to repeat the mistake
 

NOYB wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote:

I'm sure you'll do a wonderful job convincing yourself and a few of the
other righties.

Your boy Bush is heading for history's dumpster.

So you have no comment on the fact that Murtha urged the removal of troops
from Somalia in 1993, and bin Laden used that specific retreat as propaganda
material in a fatwa he issued 3 years later declaring war on the US?

Nor does he have comment on the following:

"The closer you look at the unions of today, the scummier they
look.Those who run the day to day operation of unions are mostly just
crooks, assorted ****-ups, scalawags, and ne'er-do-wells. They couldn't
hold a job if not for their union position. And now this assortment is
demanding control of all our well run company pension funds. Fat
chance!"

"Now I don't want to come off as anti-union, which I'm not. At one time
unions did a great service for America. Unfortunately, leftist whackos
like Harry Krause elbowed their way into these unions and seized control
from real Americans. You know how these scumbags always insist on things
only going their way. They leave no room for divergent opinions. Just
look at the mess these leftists have made of the Middle East."

"And then there's Carter. He and Stansfield Turner gutted our military
and intelligence network. Those with real Middle East intelligence
skills were sent packing. We are still paying for Carter's blunders. So,
who's fault is it? Johnson? Carter? Or those always anti-Americans on
the Looney Left...you know, Harry Krause types."

--
Skipper

OT--He was wrong then, and he's about to repeat the mistake
 

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:30:34 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

[snipped]

====================================

So what's the status of the new boat?

OT--He was wrong then, and he's about to repeat the mistake
 

"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
In 1993, Representive Murth


I'm sure you'll do a wonderful job convincing yourself and a few of the
other righties.

Your boy Bush is heading for history's dumpster.

So you have no comment on the fact that Murtha urged the removal of troops
from Somalia in 1993, and bin Laden used that specific retreat as
propaganda material in a fatwa he issued 3 years later declaring war on
the US?

Some people know when to let a country melt down all by itself. I'm sure
that some of our representatives thought that leaving would show weakness,
which is exactly what OBL said. So what? If your neighbor's marriage is
falling apart, do you offer to talk if they need to? Or, do you kick in
their front door and tell them you're not leaving until they straighten
things out?

OT--He was wrong then, and he's about to repeat the mistake
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:30:34 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

[snipped]

====================================

So what's the status of the new boat?

Very nice. The generator is getting replaced a week from Friday. The boat
runs very well...with a cruise speed of just under 31 mph burning
approximately 23 gph.

I "detailed" the inside yesterday, and found water in the forward bilge. I
located a small crack in a plastic fitting running to the Cruisair raw water
pump. I replaced it with a bronze fitting. From now on, I know to close
the seacocks that I'm not using...and to inspect them more thoroughly before
any long runs.

I have to say that it's *very* nice working in the cabin when the air is
running.

One thing that I didn't know is that the owners manual states that the A/C
shouldn't be run when operating the outboards over 2500 RPM. It has
something to do with the water pickup, and the possibility that the water
flow to the A/C could get disrupted at the higher planing speeds. So the
generator and A/C will get used while grouper digging or when trolling...but
not on the long runs out to the fishing grounds.

OT--He was wrong then, and he's about to repeat the mistake
 

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 21:11:09 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

One thing that I didn't know is that the owners manual states that the A/C
shouldn't be run when operating the outboards over 2500 RPM.

==============================================

Interesting. I never have that problem with the trawler running at 9
kts. :-) You could probably replace the through hull fitting with a
"scoop" type that would actually force water through the A/C at speed,
but I suppose there's always the risk of losing cooling water to the
generator as well.

Fuel burn sounds very reasonable for a boat of that size and speed.

OT--He was wrong then, and he's about to repeat the mistake
 

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:22:24 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

--
Don't pray in my public schools, and I won't think in your church.
Or elsewhere, for that matter.

OT--He was wrong then, and he's about to repeat the mistake
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 21:11:09 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

One thing that I didn't know is that the owners manual states that the A/C
shouldn't be run when operating the outboards over 2500 RPM.

==============================================

Interesting. I never have that problem with the trawler running at 9
kts. :-) You could probably replace the through hull fitting with a
"scoop" type that would actually force water through the A/C at speed,
but I suppose there's always the risk of losing cooling water to the
generator as well.


I would hope that if the solution was that easy, then Grady would have done
it. But sometimes the simplest things are often overlooked. When I get the
new lift, I'll look at the bottom of the hull to see if there's a scoop-type
pickup. Maybe Grady feels that an offshore boat running 20-30 mph in rough
seas could break the through-hull free from the water, causing the pump to
lose it's prime?

If that's the case, then it wouldn't be a problem in flat seas.






Fuel burn sounds very reasonable for a boat of that size and speed.

I was pretty happy with it. The performance data that Yamaha lists for
their 250 four-strokes gives an optimum cruise of approximately 30 mph,
burning approximately 19 gph. That's 1 mph slower, but a 20% improvement in
overall fuel burn rate. Of course, I was running with 1800 lbs. of fuel,
250 pounds of water, and 5 people on board...and my boat had the additional
weight of the optional generator...plus the drag from all of the eisenglass.

OT--He was wrong then, and he's about to repeat the mistake
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
In 1993, Representive Murth


I'm sure you'll do a wonderful job convincing yourself and a few of the
other righties.

Your boy Bush is heading for history's dumpster.

So you have no comment on the fact that Murtha urged the removal of
troops from Somalia in 1993, and bin Laden used that specific retreat as
propaganda material in a fatwa he issued 3 years later declaring war on
the US?

Some people know when to let a country melt down all by itself. I'm sure
that some of our representatives thought that leaving would show weakness,
which is exactly what OBL said. So what? If your neighbor's marriage is
falling apart, do you offer to talk if they need to? Or, do you kick in
their front door and tell them you're not leaving until they straighten
things out?


You are *the* man of off-the-wall analogies.

You compare the situation in Somalia to a failing marriage? How would have
talking to Aideed helped in Somalia?

OT--He was wrong then, and he's about to repeat the mistake
 

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 00:53:30 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

Maybe Grady feels that an offshore boat running 20-30 mph in rough
seas could break the through-hull free from the water, causing the pump to
lose it's prime?

===============================================

Most A/C circulating pumps are not self priming and have to be mounted
below the waterline. If the through hull is forward, losing prime in
the waves could be an issue I suppose.

OT--He was wrong then, and he's about to repeat the mistake
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 00:53:30 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

Maybe Grady feels that an offshore boat running 20-30 mph in rough
seas could break the through-hull free from the water, causing the pump to
lose it's prime?

===============================================

Most A/C circulating pumps are not self priming and have to be mounted
below the waterline. If the through hull is forward, losing prime in
the waves could be an issue I suppose.

The through hull is located beneath the cabin sole...so I believe you're
right.

OT--He was wrong then, and he's about to repeat the mistake
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 21:11:09 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

One thing that I didn't know is that the owners manual states that the
A/C shouldn't be run when operating the outboards over 2500 RPM.

==============================================

Interesting. I never have that problem with the trawler running at 9
kts. :-) You could probably replace the through hull fitting with a
"scoop" type that would actually force water through the A/C at speed,
but I suppose there's always the risk of losing cooling water to the
generator as well.

Fuel burn sounds very reasonable for a boat of that size and speed.


And move the through hull to the bottom of the boat just ahead of the
transom.

That's precisely where it's shown in the schematics in my owners manual.
But my boat has it in the bilge area under the aft birth in the forward
cabin.

OT--He was wrong then, and he's about to repeat the mistake
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 21:11:09 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

One thing that I didn't know is that the owners manual states that the
A/C shouldn't be run when operating the outboards over 2500 RPM.
==============================================

Interesting. I never have that problem with the trawler running at 9
kts. :-) You could probably replace the through hull fitting with a
"scoop" type that would actually force water through the A/C at speed,
but I suppose there's always the risk of losing cooling water to the
generator as well.

Fuel burn sounds very reasonable for a boat of that size and speed.

And move the through hull to the bottom of the boat just ahead of the
transom.

That's precisely where it's shown in the schematics in my owners manual.
But my boat has it in the bilge area under the aft birth in the forward
cabin.





I'd call the factory and ask why it was put where it shouldn't have been.
Was the A/C an aftermarket job?

I don't know.

Regardless, even though the manual shows the A/C pickup near the stern, it
still says not to operate the A/C when running over 2500 RPM.

OT--He was wrong then, and he's about to repeat the mistake
 

NOYB wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 00:53:30 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

Maybe Grady feels that an offshore boat running 20-30 mph in rough
seas could break the through-hull free from the water, causing the pump to
lose it's prime?

===============================================

Most A/C circulating pumps are not self priming and have to be mounted
below the waterline. If the through hull is forward, losing prime in
the waves could be an issue I suppose.

The through hull is located beneath the cabin sole...so I believe you're
right.

So, where'd you get the boat, NOYB?

OT--He was wrong then, and he's about to repeat the mistake
 

wrote in message
oups.com...

NOYB wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 00:53:30 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

Maybe Grady feels that an offshore boat running 20-30 mph in rough
seas could break the through-hull free from the water, causing the pump
to
lose it's prime?

===============================================

Most A/C circulating pumps are not self priming and have to be mounted
below the waterline. If the through hull is forward, losing prime in
the waves could be an issue I suppose.

The through hull is located beneath the cabin sole...so I believe you're
right.

So, where'd you get the boat, NOYB?


Bayside Marina. About a half mile south of Gandy Blvd (by the railroad
tracks).


It was about 160 run by water back to Naples.

OT--He was wrong then, and he's about to repeat the mistake
 

NOYB wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

NOYB wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 00:53:30 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

Maybe Grady feels that an offshore boat running 20-30 mph in rough
seas could break the through-hull free from the water, causing the pump
to
lose it's prime?

===============================================

Most A/C circulating pumps are not self priming and have to be mounted
below the waterline. If the through hull is forward, losing prime in
the waves could be an issue I suppose.

The through hull is located beneath the cabin sole...so I believe you're
right.

So, where'd you get the boat, NOYB?


Bayside Marina. About a half mile south of Gandy Blvd (by the railroad
tracks).


It was about 160 run by water back to Naples.

Cool, bet that was a fun ride going back to Naples. Did you happen to
eat at the Rattle Fish? It's right at Bayside, at Tyson St. Good food,
fun place.

OT--He was wrong then, and he's about to repeat the mistake
 

"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
In 1993, Representive Murth


I'm sure you'll do a wonderful job convincing yourself and a few of the
other righties.

Your boy Bush is heading for history's dumpster.

So you have no comment on the fact that Murtha urged the removal of
troops from Somalia in 1993, and bin Laden used that specific retreat as
propaganda material in a fatwa he issued 3 years later declaring war on
the US?

Some people know when to let a country melt down all by itself. I'm sure
that some of our representatives thought that leaving would show
weakness, which is exactly what OBL said. So what? If your neighbor's
marriage is falling apart, do you offer to talk if they need to? Or, do
you kick in their front door and tell them you're not leaving until they
straighten things out?


You are *the* man of off-the-wall analogies.

You compare the situation in Somalia to a failing marriage? How would
have talking to Aideed helped in Somalia?




I didn't say we should hug a lunatic and help him see a better way. I'm
pointing out that we have a habit (which cannot be debated - so don't try)
of lumbering into whatever country we fancy at the moment, and trying to
either force a template onto it, or attempting to accelerate political and
social changes which need to proceed on their own. Vietnam's a perfect
example. It's still a communist country (according to the CIA), so our
presence there was a complete waste of lives and time. As economists in the
1960s pointed out, even communist countries would eventually have to behave
like capitalists to bolster trade, but we couldn't wait for that
evolutionary process. You know the rest. How many more examples would you
like?

OT--He was wrong then, and he's about to repeat the mistake
 

wrote in message
ups.com...

NOYB wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

NOYB wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 00:53:30 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

Maybe Grady feels that an offshore boat running 20-30 mph in rough
seas could break the through-hull free from the water, causing the
pump
to
lose it's prime?

===============================================

Most A/C circulating pumps are not self priming and have to be
mounted
below the waterline. If the through hull is forward, losing prime
in
the waves could be an issue I suppose.

The through hull is located beneath the cabin sole...so I believe
you're
right.

So, where'd you get the boat, NOYB?


Bayside Marina. About a half mile south of Gandy Blvd (by the railroad
tracks).


It was about 160 run by water back to Naples.

Cool, bet that was a fun ride going back to Naples. Did you happen to
eat at the Rattle Fish? It's right at Bayside, at Tyson St. Good food,
fun place.

It looked like a neat place, but I didn't eat there. We were pressed for
time, so I brought Publix subs for the ride home. As it turned out, we
didn't get back to my house until 2 1/2 hours after sunset.

The last 25 miles or so were pretty damn bumpy. I couldn't see how big the
seas were because it was dark, but I'd estimate that they were 3-5. It's
not a trip that I want to make again in just one day...at least until my
kids are older and don't need as much looking-after as they needed on that
trip.

OT--He was wrong then, and he's about to repeat the mistake
 

NOYB wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

NOYB wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

NOYB wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 00:53:30 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

Maybe Grady feels that an offshore boat running 20-30 mph in rough
seas could break the through-hull free from the water, causing the
pump
to
lose it's prime?

===============================================

Most A/C circulating pumps are not self priming and have to be
mounted
below the waterline. If the through hull is forward, losing prime
in
the waves could be an issue I suppose.

The through hull is located beneath the cabin sole...so I believe
you're
right.

So, where'd you get the boat, NOYB?


Bayside Marina. About a half mile south of Gandy Blvd (by the railroad
tracks).


It was about 160 run by water back to Naples.

Cool, bet that was a fun ride going back to Naples. Did you happen to
eat at the Rattle Fish? It's right at Bayside, at Tyson St. Good food,
fun place.

It looked like a neat place, but I didn't eat there. We were pressed for
time, so I brought Publix subs for the ride home. As it turned out, we
didn't get back to my house until 2 1/2 hours after sunset.

The last 25 miles or so were pretty damn bumpy. I couldn't see how big the
seas were because it was dark, but I'd estimate that they were 3-5. It's
not a trip that I want to make again in just one day...at least until my
kids are older and don't need as much looking-after as they needed on that
trip.

I'll bet. I used to shark fish from the pier at Ft. DeSoto, and it
would get rough as hell out there after sunset.

OT--He was wrong then, and he's about to repeat the mistake
 

wrote in message
oups.com...

NOYB wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

NOYB wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

NOYB wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 00:53:30 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

Maybe Grady feels that an offshore boat running 20-30 mph in
rough
seas could break the through-hull free from the water, causing
the
pump
to
lose it's prime?

===============================================

Most A/C circulating pumps are not self priming and have to be
mounted
below the waterline. If the through hull is forward, losing
prime
in
the waves could be an issue I suppose.

The through hull is located beneath the cabin sole...so I believe
you're
right.

So, where'd you get the boat, NOYB?


Bayside Marina. About a half mile south of Gandy Blvd (by the
railroad
tracks).


It was about 160 run by water back to Naples.

Cool, bet that was a fun ride going back to Naples. Did you happen to
eat at the Rattle Fish? It's right at Bayside, at Tyson St. Good food,
fun place.

It looked like a neat place, but I didn't eat there. We were pressed for
time, so I brought Publix subs for the ride home. As it turned out, we
didn't get back to my house until 2 1/2 hours after sunset.

The last 25 miles or so were pretty damn bumpy. I couldn't see how big
the
seas were because it was dark, but I'd estimate that they were 3-5. It's
not a trip that I want to make again in just one day...at least until my
kids are older and don't need as much looking-after as they needed on
that
trip.

I'll bet. I used to shark fish from the pier at Ft. DeSoto, and it
would get rough as hell out there after sunset.

The seas were not bad when I left Tampa. They were 3-4...but spaced well
apart.

They didn't get bad until south of Sanibel. When you round the southern
tip of Sanibel and make a straight course for Naples, you are 15+ miles from
land, with nothing to protect you from the strong ENE wind that was blowing
that night.

OT--He was wrong then, and he's about to repeat the mistake
 

NOYB wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

NOYB wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

NOYB wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

NOYB wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 00:53:30 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

Maybe Grady feels that an offshore boat running 20-30 mph in
rough
seas could break the through-hull free from the water, causing
the
pump
to
lose it's prime?

===============================================

Most A/C circulating pumps are not self priming and have to be
mounted
below the waterline. If the through hull is forward, losing
prime
in
the waves could be an issue I suppose.

The through hull is located beneath the cabin sole...so I believe
you're
right.

So, where'd you get the boat, NOYB?


Bayside Marina. About a half mile south of Gandy Blvd (by the
railroad
tracks).


It was about 160 run by water back to Naples.

Cool, bet that was a fun ride going back to Naples. Did you happen to
eat at the Rattle Fish? It's right at Bayside, at Tyson St. Good food,
fun place.

It looked like a neat place, but I didn't eat there. We were pressed for
time, so I brought Publix subs for the ride home. As it turned out, we
didn't get back to my house until 2 1/2 hours after sunset.

The last 25 miles or so were pretty damn bumpy. I couldn't see how big
the
seas were because it was dark, but I'd estimate that they were 3-5. It's
not a trip that I want to make again in just one day...at least until my
kids are older and don't need as much looking-after as they needed on
that
trip.

I'll bet. I used to shark fish from the pier at Ft. DeSoto, and it
would get rough as hell out there after sunset.

The seas were not bad when I left Tampa. They were 3-4...but spaced well
apart.

They didn't get bad until south of Sanibel. When you round the southern
tip of Sanibel and make a straight course for Naples, you are 15+ miles from
land, with nothing to protect you from the strong ENE wind that was blowing
that night.

Tampa Bay can get pretty miserable when the wind comes in from the
skyway bridge. Because it's quite shallow in a lot of places, it gets
choppy as hell.