I am planning to buy a whitewater canoe, preferably used. I looked a
little on the web, but found little on how to choose a whitewater canoe.

I have been running whitewater in my Old Town Camper canoe, not exactly
the right canoe for the job, but I have successfully run class III. I
got carried away and added a removable saddle and thigh straps, sort of
like putting racing stripes on a VW bus. The people I paddle with have
been bugging me to get a real whitewater boat, they say that I have the
skills, I just need a better boat.

Given that I have been paddling a 36 inch wide and 16 foot long canoe, I
don't want too radical a change, although any whitewater canoe would be
a big change. One of the local people had a boat for sale, but he said
that it was probably more extreme than was appropriate for me. I weigh
200 pounds, so I need a larger boat, especially if I add camping gear.
Are there any common models that I might find used that I should look
for? Are there any relatively inexpensive new models worth considering?
I suppose I am looking for a whitewater canoe appropriate for larger
intermediate whitewater paddlers.

Since I have no experience to speak of in whitewater canoes, I am
inclined to think that a paddle test is of limited use for me. When I
have paddled whitewater canoes on flat water they feel very strange and
unstable. I guess if I sat in one and flipped it in flat water that
might be a reason not to buy it. ;-) Rather than depend on my own
uneducated taste, I would rather get an appropriate whitewater boat and
gradually become accustomed to it.

Comments? Suggestions?

Richard

--
http://www.fergusonsculpture.com
Sculptures in copper and other metals

I forgot to say that I am looking for a solo whitewater boat, not a
tandem. I use my Old town solo for whitewater, tandem for tripping.



Richard Ferguson wrote:
I am planning to buy a whitewater canoe, preferably used. I looked a
little on the web, but found little on how to choose a whitewater canoe.

I have been running whitewater in my Old Town Camper canoe, not exactly
the right canoe for the job, but I have successfully run class III. I
got carried away and added a removable saddle and thigh straps, sort of
like putting racing stripes on a VW bus. The people I paddle with have
been bugging me to get a real whitewater boat, they say that I have the
skills, I just need a better boat.

Given that I have been paddling a 36 inch wide and 16 foot long canoe, I
don't want too radical a change, although any whitewater canoe would be
a big change. One of the local people had a boat for sale, but he said
that it was probably more extreme than was appropriate for me. I weigh
200 pounds, so I need a larger boat, especially if I add camping gear.
Are there any common models that I might find used that I should look
for? Are there any relatively inexpensive new models worth considering?
I suppose I am looking for a whitewater canoe appropriate for larger
intermediate whitewater paddlers.

Since I have no experience to speak of in whitewater canoes, I am
inclined to think that a paddle test is of limited use for me. When I
have paddled whitewater canoes on flat water they feel very strange and
unstable. I guess if I sat in one and flipped it in flat water that
might be a reason not to buy it. ;-) Rather than depend on my own
uneducated taste, I would rather get an appropriate whitewater boat and
gradually become accustomed to it.

Comments? Suggestions?

Richard



--
http://www.fergusonsculpture.com
Sculptures in copper and other metals

I understand where you're at. It's a little like saying, " I need a car to
drive to work, any ideas?." A used whitesell comes to mind. It just over 14
" long, maybe 5 inches of rocker, and enough volumn to handle class 4 with
camping gear. Dagger stopped making canoes but there are a number of older
"encores" , "prophets" and "capers" out there on the used market. they are
slightly small versions of the whitesell.

Mohawk in Florida still makes several models for a reasonable price. Check
them out before you but an Expensive used boat.

"Michael Hearn Anna Houpt" wrote in
rec.boats.paddle...

A used whitesell comes to mind. It just over 14" long,

He would save on paddles, too. With a boat that short, you
could paddle it with a spoon.

Michael Hearn Anna Houpt wrote:
: I understand where you're at. It's a little like saying, " I need a car to
: drive to work, any ideas?." A used whitesell comes to mind. It just over 14
: " long, maybe 5 inches of rocker, and enough volumn to handle class 4 with
: camping gear. Dagger stopped making canoes but there are a number of older
: "encores" , "prophets" and "capers" out there on the used market. they are
: slightly small versions of the whitesell.

: Mohawk in Florida still makes several models for a reasonable price. Check
: them out before you but an Expensive used boat.

I have a dagger caption that we use... set it up with removable saddles and
you can change the float bags/saddle to go solo or tandem and it holds a lot!

--
John Nelson
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chicago Area Paddling/Fishing Page
http://www.chicagopaddling.org http://www.chicagofishing.org
(A Non-Commercial Web Site: No Sponsors, No Paid Ads and Nothing to Sell)

Chicago Paddling-Fishing wrote:


I have a dagger caption that we use... set it up with removable saddles and
you can change the float bags/saddle to go solo or tandem and it holds a lot!

A Caption seems like a possibility. I think that someone suggested one
a while back. I know I have seen one, I might even have paddled one
around the pool. I don't think the Caption is still being made, but I
know that there are some out there.

Richard


--
http://www.fergusonsculpture.com
Sculptures in copper and other metals

Michael Hearn Anna Houpt wrote:
I understand where you're at. It's a little like saying, " I need a car to
drive to work, any ideas?." A used whitesell comes to mind. It just over 14
" long, maybe 5 inches of rocker, and enough volumn to handle class 4 with
camping gear. Dagger stopped making canoes but there are a number of older
"encores" , "prophets" and "capers" out there on the used market. they are
slightly small versions of the whitesell.

Mohawk in Florida still makes several models for a reasonable price. Check
them out before you but an Expensive used boat.


Whoa! Puh-LEEEZ exclude the Prophet from that list. The Prophet was a
very short, very radical, and (to my mind) very bad design. It came
out at the same time as the Ocoee (around 1993 IIRC), and I rented each
one for a weekend of test paddling. I subsequently owned and wore out
four Ocoees. Dagger sold (I would estimate) many hundreds of Ocoees
and a few dozens of Prophets. The Prophet sucked severely.

But for the OPs purposes it is enough to know that it was very short
and very radical, and does not belong in the list of big-guy whitewater
boats like the Whitesell, Encore, Genesis, Rival, Caper and Caption.

A wonderfully forgiving, but rather expensive, new Class IV whitewater
OC for big guys is the Bell Prodigy X. I doubt if there are any on the
used-boat market yet.


-Richard, His Kanubic Travesty
--
================================================== ====================
Richard Hopley Winston-Salem, NC, USA
.. rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net
.. Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll
.. rhopley[at]wfubmc[dot]edu
.. OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters
================================================== ====================

You would probably like the Mohawk XL14 or even XL15. Wide, forgiving,
should be pretty cheap used. A step up would be the Probe 14.

Steve

Richard Ferguson wrote:
I am planning to buy a whitewater canoe, preferably used. I looked a
little on the web, but found little on how to choose a whitewater canoe.

I have been running whitewater in my Old Town Camper canoe, not exactly
the right canoe for the job, but I have successfully run class III. I
got carried away and added a removable saddle and thigh straps, sort of
like putting racing stripes on a VW bus. The people I paddle with have
been bugging me to get a real whitewater boat, they say that I have the
skills, I just need a better boat.

Given that I have been paddling a 36 inch wide and 16 foot long canoe, I
don't want too radical a change, although any whitewater canoe would be
a big change. One of the local people had a boat for sale, but he said
that it was probably more extreme than was appropriate for me. I weigh
200 pounds, so I need a larger boat, especially if I add camping gear.
Are there any common models that I might find used that I should look
for? Are there any relatively inexpensive new models worth considering?
I suppose I am looking for a whitewater canoe appropriate for larger
intermediate whitewater paddlers.

Since I have no experience to speak of in whitewater canoes, I am
inclined to think that a paddle test is of limited use for me. When I
have paddled whitewater canoes on flat water they feel very strange and
unstable. I guess if I sat in one and flipped it in flat water that
might be a reason not to buy it. ;-) Rather than depend on my own
uneducated taste, I would rather get an appropriate whitewater boat and
gradually become accustomed to it.

Comments? Suggestions?

Richard



--
Steve Cramer
Athens, GA

I mainly paddle WW kayaks, but also have an XL-13 Mohawk I got cheap. Very
stable, pretty dry on class III, not super fast, but the stability and
handling is good. It was a good choice when deciding to try a new craft on
WW. I vote the XL series as well
"Steve Cramer" wrote in message
...
You would probably like the Mohawk XL14 or even XL15. Wide, forgiving,
should be pretty cheap used. A step up would be the Probe 14.

Steve

Richard Ferguson wrote:
I am planning to buy a whitewater canoe, preferably used. I looked a
little on the web, but found little on how to choose a whitewater canoe.

I have been running whitewater in my Old Town Camper canoe, not exactly
the right canoe for the job, but I have successfully run class III. I
got carried away and added a removable saddle and thigh straps, sort of
like putting racing stripes on a VW bus. The people I paddle with have
been bugging me to get a real whitewater boat, they say that I have the
skills, I just need a better boat.

Given that I have been paddling a 36 inch wide and 16 foot long canoe, I
don't want too radical a change, although any whitewater canoe would be
a big change. One of the local people had a boat for sale, but he said
that it was probably more extreme than was appropriate for me. I weigh
200 pounds, so I need a larger boat, especially if I add camping gear.
Are there any common models that I might find used that I should look
for? Are there any relatively inexpensive new models worth considering?
I suppose I am looking for a whitewater canoe appropriate for larger
intermediate whitewater paddlers.

Since I have no experience to speak of in whitewater canoes, I am
inclined to think that a paddle test is of limited use for me. When I
have paddled whitewater canoes on flat water they feel very strange and
unstable. I guess if I sat in one and flipped it in flat water that
might be a reason not to buy it. ;-) Rather than depend on my own
uneducated taste, I would rather get an appropriate whitewater boat and
gradually become accustomed to it.

Comments? Suggestions?

Richard



--
Steve Cramer
Athens, GA

Whereas, I'd vote AGAINST the XL series if the OP is expecting to
continue as a serious whitewater paddler. The XL series is obsolete
and it would be a matter of a short length of time before he would want
to sell it for something more current. Buying a used, and slightly
obsolete boat is probably a good idea until he knows exactly what he
wants, but buying something as primitive as an XL is probably a false
economy.

The Probe 14 is a much better suggestion, but if you (OP) check
Mohawk's website (I'm too lazy to do it for you) I'll bet you will find
that your weight is within the range of some of the Probe 12 series. A
great long whitewater boat (with a rabid cult following) is the
Bluehole Sunburst, but there will be a bidding war if one comes on the
market, since Bluehole is again out of production. Another good
big-guy boat that has been around long enough to show up on the
used-boat market is the Outrage X. Two years ago I would have killed
for a used Rival; then I got my Prodigy X!

But if you spring for the price of a new Bell Prodigy X you will want
to kiss me when we meet on the river one day; the expensive Prodigy X
is one schweeeeeeet whitewater canoe!

Generally speaking, you should consider what kind of whitewater you
like best: if you like big water you could get one of the longer boats
suggested here, but if you like (as I do) tight, technical streams then
you should go for a shorter boat that is rated to carry your weight.
Something in the 12' to 13' (I think my Prodigy X is 12'4") range
should make a pretty good all-rounder for someone of your size (and
mine -- 200 and a variable bit) that will be able to handle technical
streams.

-Richard, His Kanubic Travesty
--
================================================== ====================
Richard Hopley Winston-Salem, NC, USA
.. rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net
.. Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll
.. rhopley[at]wfubmc[dot]edu
.. OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters
================================================== ====================



Grip wrote:
I mainly paddle WW kayaks, but also have an XL-13 Mohawk I got cheap. Very
stable, pretty dry on class III, not super fast, but the stability and
handling is good. It was a good choice when deciding to try a new craft on
WW. I vote the XL series as well
"Steve Cramer" wrote in message
...
You would probably like the Mohawk XL14 or even XL15. Wide, forgiving,
should be pretty cheap used. A step up would be the Probe 14.

Steve

Richard Ferguson wrote:
I am planning to buy a whitewater canoe, preferably used. I looked a
little on the web, but found little on how to choose a whitewater canoe.

I have been running whitewater in my Old Town Camper canoe, not exactly
the right canoe for the job, but I have successfully run class III. I
got carried away and added a removable saddle and thigh straps, sort of
like putting racing stripes on a VW bus. The people I paddle with have
been bugging me to get a real whitewater boat, they say that I have the
skills, I just need a better boat.

Given that I have been paddling a 36 inch wide and 16 foot long canoe, I
don't want too radical a change, although any whitewater canoe would be
a big change. One of the local people had a boat for sale, but he said
that it was probably more extreme than was appropriate for me. I weigh
200 pounds, so I need a larger boat, especially if I add camping gear.
Are there any common models that I might find used that I should look
for? Are there any relatively inexpensive new models worth considering?
I suppose I am looking for a whitewater canoe appropriate for larger
intermediate whitewater paddlers.

Since I have no experience to speak of in whitewater canoes, I am
inclined to think that a paddle test is of limited use for me. When I
have paddled whitewater canoes on flat water they feel very strange and
unstable. I guess if I sat in one and flipped it in flat water that
might be a reason not to buy it. ;-) Rather than depend on my own
uneducated taste, I would rather get an appropriate whitewater boat and
gradually become accustomed to it.

Comments? Suggestions?

Richard



--
Steve Cramer
Athens, GA