Most church books are subject to an audit. There is a financial committee
who oversees the spending, and an independent auditor reviewing it annually.


" *JimH*" wrote in message
...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
*JimH* wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
John H. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 19:44:22 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 16:20:48 -0800, jps wrote:

In article ,
PocoLoco415
@hotmail.com says...
On 11 Nov 2005 15:23:35 -0800, wrote:

Bert Robbins wrote:
"jps" wrote in message
...
In article
.com,
says...

What an idiot!!!! Christians ruled by fear LONG before there
were
liberals!!! You right wing lunatics adopted any and all of
their ideals.
All Abrahamic religions include the hairy thunderer who would
smote
folks for any number of reasons.
There are consequences.

While I don't believe Jesus was the first true liberal, he
certainly was
a raging liberal.
He wasn't a raging liberal. If he was then he have been giving
out fish
instead of teaching people to fish to feed themselves.
Gotcha!

Matthew, Chapter 14

14:15 And when it was evening, his disciples came to him, saying,
This
is a desert place, and the time is now past; send the multitude
away,
that they may go into the villages, and buy themselves victuals.

14:16 But Jesus said unto them, They need not depart; give ye
them to
eat.

14:17 And they say unto him, We have here but five loaves, and
two
fishes.

14:18 He said, Bring them hither to me.

14:19 And he commanded the multitude to sit down on the grass,
and took
the five loaves, and the two fishes, and looking up to heaven, he
blessed, and brake, and gave the loaves to [his] disciples, and
the
disciples to the multitude.

14:20 And they did all eat, and were filled: and they took up of
the
fragments that remained twelve baskets full.

14:21 And they that had eaten were about five thousand men,
beside
women and children.

14:22 And straightway Jesus constrained his disciples to get into
a
ship, and to go before him unto the other side, while he sent the
multitudes away.


Do the conservatives have a special version of the story? One
where the
disciples come to Jesus saying "the people are hungry" and he
replies,
"Go then, and teach them how to fish!"? :-)

Looks like he not only "handed out fish", but the bread course as
well.
:-)
You missed the point: He didn't take up a collection from the
disciples to pay
for the fish!
That's the point you want to make, post facto.

The point was Jesus wasn't the one to who came up with "teach a man
to fish."

Sorta like Bush wanting to change his story every time the previous
on didn't quite pan out.

Jesus was into sharing. I'm sure he would have been into the rich
taking care of the poor and having it happen voluntarily. However,
I'm sure if he didn't see it happening voluntarily, he would not
have simply turned his back on the poor. He would have found some
reason the rich would see reason in redistributing wealth.

"easier for a camel..."

jps
Key word - voluntarily. *If* you attended almost any church, you'd
see just how
much is *voluntarily* given to the poor.

A lot of money is given voluntarily to churches, but that doesn't
mean it is going to the poor.
You, of course, track the budgets and expenditures of all churches. I
should
have known.


That's right, John. Churches never lie about where the money is going,
and Army recruiters never lie to those they are trying to induce into
signing up. Everything is perfect in your world.

Except:

March 5: Missing Church Funds

Reported and Web Produced by: I-Team
Updated: 03/05/04 17:35:08

THE INVESTIGATION INTO THE MISUSE OF FUNDS AT CINCINNATI'S LARGEST
PARISH IS NOW WITH THE HAMILTON COUNTY PROSECUTOR.

I-TEAM REPORTER LAURE QUINLIVAN HAS BEEN FOLLOWING THE ALLEGED MISUSE
OF FUNDS AT GOOD SHEPHERD PARISH BY FORMER PASTOR REVEREND TOM AXE.

LAURE WHAT'S THE LATEST?

PROSECUTOR MIKE ALLEN MUST NOW DECIDE WHETHER TO PRESENT EVIDENCE TO A
GRAND JURY.

REVEREND TOM AXE IS A CLOSE PERSONAL FRIEND OF ARCHBISHOP DANIEL
PILARCZYK, AND THE ARCHDIOCESE IS REFUSING COMMENT ON THIS CASE.

FATHER AXE TOOK EARLY RETIREMENT IN NOVEMBER. IN HIS LAST TALK FROM THE
PULPIT, HE TOLD PARISHONERS AN AUDIT FOUND SOME FUNDS IN A
DISCRETIONARY ACCOUNT WENT FOR THE PASTOR'S PERSONAL BENEFIT. HE SAID A
FULL AUDIT WOULD BE MADE AVAILABLE SOON.

FOUR MONTHS LATER, GOOD SHEPHERD PARISHONERS ARE STILL WAITING TO SEE
THE AUDIT.

PARISHONERS WANT TO KNOW HOW MUCH MONEY WAS TAKEN AND FOR WHAT PURPOSE.

MONTGOMERY POLICE CHIEF KIRK NORDBLOOM BEGAN A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION
IN DECEMBER.

And about 20,000 other hits.

You can certainly find corruption in all religions Harry. We are human
and have potential moral weaknesses. I knew someone responsible for
counting the collection plate basket and stole cash from it.

Did this make my Church bad or evil?

Yes, there are bad players in all religions. However, I do not think
that the *Church* in general intestinally lies about their donations and
budgets.




That's not my point. My point was that without audited financials, one
has no idea where that collected money is going. My house of worship
publishes an annual financial report AND a quarterly balance sheet in its
newsletter. So does my father-in-law's.

Fair enough. I agree that the Church's books should be subject to audit.
I did not know they weren't.

"Mr. Smithers" The University called, I lost my PhD. wrote in message
...
Most church books are subject to an audit. There is a financial committee
who oversees the spending, and an independent auditor reviewing it
annually.


" *JimH*" wrote in message
...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
*JimH* wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
John H. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 19:44:22 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 16:20:48 -0800, jps wrote:

In article ,
PocoLoco415
@hotmail.com says...
On 11 Nov 2005 15:23:35 -0800, wrote:

Bert Robbins wrote:
"jps" wrote in message
...
In article
.com,
says...

What an idiot!!!! Christians ruled by fear LONG before there
were
liberals!!! You right wing lunatics adopted any and all of
their ideals.
All Abrahamic religions include the hairy thunderer who would
smote
folks for any number of reasons.
There are consequences.

While I don't believe Jesus was the first true liberal, he
certainly was
a raging liberal.
He wasn't a raging liberal. If he was then he have been giving
out fish
instead of teaching people to fish to feed themselves.
Gotcha!

Matthew, Chapter 14

14:15 And when it was evening, his disciples came to him,
saying, This
is a desert place, and the time is now past; send the multitude
away,
that they may go into the villages, and buy themselves victuals.

14:16 But Jesus said unto them, They need not depart; give ye
them to
eat.

14:17 And they say unto him, We have here but five loaves, and
two
fishes.

14:18 He said, Bring them hither to me.

14:19 And he commanded the multitude to sit down on the grass,
and took
the five loaves, and the two fishes, and looking up to heaven,
he
blessed, and brake, and gave the loaves to [his] disciples, and
the
disciples to the multitude.

14:20 And they did all eat, and were filled: and they took up of
the
fragments that remained twelve baskets full.

14:21 And they that had eaten were about five thousand men,
beside
women and children.

14:22 And straightway Jesus constrained his disciples to get
into a
ship, and to go before him unto the other side, while he sent
the
multitudes away.


Do the conservatives have a special version of the story? One
where the
disciples come to Jesus saying "the people are hungry" and he
replies,
"Go then, and teach them how to fish!"? :-)

Looks like he not only "handed out fish", but the bread course
as well.
:-)
You missed the point: He didn't take up a collection from the
disciples to pay
for the fish!
That's the point you want to make, post facto.

The point was Jesus wasn't the one to who came up with "teach a
man to fish."

Sorta like Bush wanting to change his story every time the
previous on didn't quite pan out.

Jesus was into sharing. I'm sure he would have been into the rich
taking care of the poor and having it happen voluntarily.
However, I'm sure if he didn't see it happening voluntarily, he
would not have simply turned his back on the poor. He would have
found some reason the rich would see reason in redistributing
wealth.

"easier for a camel..."

jps
Key word - voluntarily. *If* you attended almost any church, you'd
see just how
much is *voluntarily* given to the poor.

A lot of money is given voluntarily to churches, but that doesn't
mean it is going to the poor.
You, of course, track the budgets and expenditures of all churches. I
should
have known.


That's right, John. Churches never lie about where the money is going,
and Army recruiters never lie to those they are trying to induce into
signing up. Everything is perfect in your world.

Except:

March 5: Missing Church Funds

Reported and Web Produced by: I-Team
Updated: 03/05/04 17:35:08

THE INVESTIGATION INTO THE MISUSE OF FUNDS AT CINCINNATI'S LARGEST
PARISH IS NOW WITH THE HAMILTON COUNTY PROSECUTOR.

I-TEAM REPORTER LAURE QUINLIVAN HAS BEEN FOLLOWING THE ALLEGED MISUSE
OF FUNDS AT GOOD SHEPHERD PARISH BY FORMER PASTOR REVEREND TOM AXE.

LAURE WHAT'S THE LATEST?

PROSECUTOR MIKE ALLEN MUST NOW DECIDE WHETHER TO PRESENT EVIDENCE TO A
GRAND JURY.

REVEREND TOM AXE IS A CLOSE PERSONAL FRIEND OF ARCHBISHOP DANIEL
PILARCZYK, AND THE ARCHDIOCESE IS REFUSING COMMENT ON THIS CASE.

FATHER AXE TOOK EARLY RETIREMENT IN NOVEMBER. IN HIS LAST TALK FROM
THE PULPIT, HE TOLD PARISHONERS AN AUDIT FOUND SOME FUNDS IN A
DISCRETIONARY ACCOUNT WENT FOR THE PASTOR'S PERSONAL BENEFIT. HE SAID
A FULL AUDIT WOULD BE MADE AVAILABLE SOON.

FOUR MONTHS LATER, GOOD SHEPHERD PARISHONERS ARE STILL WAITING TO SEE
THE AUDIT.

PARISHONERS WANT TO KNOW HOW MUCH MONEY WAS TAKEN AND FOR WHAT
PURPOSE.

MONTGOMERY POLICE CHIEF KIRK NORDBLOOM BEGAN A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION
IN DECEMBER.

And about 20,000 other hits.

You can certainly find corruption in all religions Harry. We are human
and have potential moral weaknesses. I knew someone responsible for
counting the collection plate basket and stole cash from it.

Did this make my Church bad or evil?

Yes, there are bad players in all religions. However, I do not think
that the *Church* in general intestinally lies about their donations
and budgets.




That's not my point. My point was that without audited financials, one
has no idea where that collected money is going. My house of worship
publishes an annual financial report AND a quarterly balance sheet in
its newsletter. So does my father-in-law's.

Fair enough. I agree that the Church's books should be subject to audit.
I did not know they weren't.



Maybe they are thinking of Rev. Jackson's church.