"DSK" wrote in message
...
Nowhere does it say that diseases brought by Europeans wiped out 80% of
the Indians.


Jeff Rigby wrote:
FIRST wave...was 50%, then the second wave more and the third wave, and
on and on

And yet, you made the claim that 80% of the North American Indians (even
the Eskimos??) were wiped out by disease brought by the Spanish by 1700.
That's ridiculous and the reason your cited web sites (interesting and
fact-filled though they be) do not support your claim.

"There was a vacumn here as 80% of the origional indians in the eastern and
south easteren continental US were killed by dieases brought in by spanish
explorers. When the english and dutch sought to colonize this country there
were many unclaimed lands."

No mention of Eskimos in my post, nor was there mention of the northeast
where Dutch, English and French were very brutal in claiming, defending and
exploiting their claims. We were talking about Americans killing off the
indians and for the most part I identify with the south and have a greater
grasp of our history than the northeast and Canada. The settlers in the
northeast have been the most brutal unethical humans on this earth for
hundreds of years. That culture I won't defend. The yankee traders of the
1800's gave us the reputation that we are still living down


I suggest you look up some more history, like the Tuscarora War or King
Phillip's War... wars in which the Indians drove white settlers out of
large areas of their lands... temporarily, to be sure... doesn't really
fit your picture, does it? I wonder why?

Again, I was talking, or defending Americans not europeans.


Now, if you had said that the Indians suffered massive depopulation,
mostly from deisease, starting when the Spanish explorers arrived....
*that* would be truthful. Instead you have to make up some exaggerated
claim and start hurling insults.

That's what I did say and you for some reason twisted it. I didn't START
hurling insults just responded to your comment that I should reread the 5th
grade history books which contained many of the statements I made but which
you seemed to have forgotten.

And you wonder why you can't get any grown-ups to play.

DSK

Misquoting, distorting and hurling insults are not what I call adult
behavior.

You expext adult behavior out of DSK?

"Jeff Rigby" wrote in message
...

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Nowhere does it say that diseases brought by Europeans wiped out 80% of
the Indians.


Jeff Rigby wrote:
FIRST wave...was 50%, then the second wave more and the third wave, and
on and on

And yet, you made the claim that 80% of the North American Indians (even
the Eskimos??) were wiped out by disease brought by the Spanish by 1700.
That's ridiculous and the reason your cited web sites (interesting and
fact-filled though they be) do not support your claim.

"There was a vacumn here as 80% of the origional indians in the eastern
and
south easteren continental US were killed by dieases brought in by spanish
explorers. When the english and dutch sought to colonize this country
there
were many unclaimed lands."

No mention of Eskimos in my post, nor was there mention of the northeast
where Dutch, English and French were very brutal in claiming, defending
and
exploiting their claims. We were talking about Americans killing off the
indians and for the most part I identify with the south and have a greater
grasp of our history than the northeast and Canada. The settlers in the
northeast have been the most brutal unethical humans on this earth for
hundreds of years. That culture I won't defend. The yankee traders of
the
1800's gave us the reputation that we are still living down


I suggest you look up some more history, like the Tuscarora War or King
Phillip's War... wars in which the Indians drove white settlers out of
large areas of their lands... temporarily, to be sure... doesn't really
fit your picture, does it? I wonder why?

Again, I was talking, or defending Americans not europeans.


Now, if you had said that the Indians suffered massive depopulation,
mostly from deisease, starting when the Spanish explorers arrived....
*that* would be truthful. Instead you have to make up some exaggerated
claim and start hurling insults.

That's what I did say and you for some reason twisted it. I didn't START
hurling insults just responded to your comment that I should reread the
5th
grade history books which contained many of the statements I made but
which
you seemed to have forgotten.

And you wonder why you can't get any grown-ups to play.

DSK

Misquoting, distorting and hurling insults are not what I call adult
behavior.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"DSK" wrote in message
...
Nowhere does it say that diseases brought by Europeans wiped out 80% of
the Indians.


Jeff Rigby wrote:
FIRST wave...was 50%, then the second wave more and the third wave, and
on and on

And yet, you made the claim that 80% of the North American Indians (even
the Eskimos??) were wiped out by disease brought by the Spanish by 1700.
That's ridiculous and the reason your cited web sites (interesting and
fact-filled though they be) do not support your claim.

I'm just sort of lurking in this part of the debate. Natives in places
like Minnesota were wiped out by the Spanish?
No that's a misquote, I mentioned that the east and southeast of the
continental United States had this massive depopulation. DSK, misread and
or misquoted. I can only guess that it's unconscious on his part.

Climate has a lot to do with the spread of disease. The warmer climates
spread typhus and cholera faster than the cold climates.

On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 07:40:37 +0100, Len wrote:

On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 16:39:35 -0500, John H.
wrote:

What's the Netherlands doing about the problems they're having with Muslims,
Len? My friend in Stolwyjk seems to think there *is* a developing problem over
there, and that taxes can be raised only so far to keep giving money to folks
who aren't earning it.

Locally:

1) The problem in our country comes from a very small minority of
muslim-youngsters that later on are being influenced by foreign
jihadist-recruters.

Are the recruiters also youngsters? If not, from where do they get their hatred
of the Netherlands?


2) The vast majority are muslims that want a normal life. These people
don't live up to the "pure" islam taken literally. Seems everyone is
forgetting this large group.

Seems like everyone is forgetting the same group in Iraq.

3) These youngsters have trouble finding jobs cause economy is at a
baisse over here. So there are only few employers and these are able
to be picky.

Perhaps you should try providing less welfare, lower the taxes, give people more
money to spend, increase the demand for goods, produce more goods, and thereby
give more people jobs.

This attitude is one of the causes. It is over here and it is in
France and in Germany and in.... The governments can't throw a switch
here. It's up to us, the society itself to give the boys and sometimes
girls a fair chance.

I agree. But, you surely can't say that *any* of those problems are Bush's
fault.

Also the right wing attitude of "all muslims are extremists" is to be
prevented/altered. In your eyes maybe a soft "therapy" but in the long
run an essential one.

I've never thought all Muslims were extremists. I was a teacher for a time. I
had many Muslims as students and dealt with their parents. They were regular
folk.

Legislation is being adapted so the intention to use violence in the
future can be dealt with properly.



I see where your friend is coming from. He shouldn't be afraid of a
tax-raise. Present government is increasing net income for the well to
do and also increases costs like healthcosts for the poor and elderly.
But spending taxpayers money to keep these people "working" is no
solution, never is imo. And this is not what is planned. It's the
expectability to get a real job that is to be improved. Ethnical
discrimination *is* a fact amongst employers. In a sense it may be
understandable but is causes immense trouble in the long run.


Internationally:

We're dependant of the world-leading nation: the us of a and the way
it assesses the global situation, the wisdom and vision with which it
applies measures. We suffer more from ethnic troubles when the us
unintentionally feed the moral conviction of radical muslims by
occupying muslim countries for the wrong reasons.
The nuance between "lie" and "wrong intelligence" is of no importance
here.

Why do you say you're dependant on the US of A? Ah, here we go with the 'blame
the USA' attitude again. "We suffer more from....when the us (sic) ..."

Pferdeäpfel

When the legitimation is altered from WMD to moral obligation to
remove a fierce dictator, then a success in helping the freed
population would be of great value. Why is there still no
infrastructure, no electricity in Bagdad after such a period of time?

Your exaggerations are false. There is infrastructure and there is electricity
in Baghdad. It may not be perfect, yet, but it's there.

But first people should accept the fact the Islam has many faces and
there are a few radical muslims inside or better: next to a large
group of kind, peace-seeking muslims. Just like there are
fundamentalist-christians who are consumed by their hate against (in
their eyes) non-christians who want to have a choice regarding fi
abortion, gay-marriage and euthanasia.

Geen probleem!

Regards, Len.

--
John H

"It's *not* a baby kicking, bride of mine, it's just a fetus!"

Hypocrital Liberal

Harry Krause wrote:

Skipper wrote:

Why are you getting so excited and upset, Krause? You have boats, and
plenty of them.

Several. And, of course, you have none.

I'm tempted to inquire as to why you are so consistently wrong...but of
course we know that answer...constant practice!

And while we're on that subject, I will take you up on
that offer of a photo. I'm particularly interested in that 'get home'
engine you've bragged about. Can we see a pic?

Sure, Snippy

http://tinyurl.com/8lt3c

A great get-home engine. 1005 Reliable to Date.

So, you've finally found the courage to 'own up." If you want to confirm
that, we can finally get off your ass about it.

BTW, I can send you winterizing instructions if your capable and in good
enough health for DYI.

No thanks. I can afford to pay the dealer to handle the job properly.

Properly? Got a newsflash for you, Krause. It's the newest kid on the
lot who often gets tasked with winterizing. Best insurance for a job
well done is DIY, if you're up to the challenge.

--
Skipper

"John H." wrote in message
...

2) The vast majority are muslims that want a normal life. These people
don't live up to the "pure" islam taken literally. Seems everyone is
forgetting this large group.

Seems like everyone is forgetting the same group in Iraq.

Isn't it odd that in interviews with local officials on the news, they're
not talking about this as a jihad? Where did you hear about a jihad, John?
I'd like to follow the same news as you do.

I know people who use a bilge heater to protect the engine, this makes it
very easy to winterize the boat, just drain the fresh water lines and fill
them up with pink stuff.

I have always shied away from it because as soon as there was a hard freeze
I am sure the marina would have a power failure. ; )

The winter is a great time to boat, but I would find a 29' to be cramped for
long term living.

"P Fritz" wrote in message
...
Must be nice.........mine was shrink wrapped over the weekend.....:-(

I have one friend who is living aboard his 29' Four Winns over the
winter............

"Dr. Dr. Smithers" Ask Me about my Phd @ Diploma Mill .com wrote in
message ...
JiminFl,
Harry has a 25' Parker, he likes to talk about his custom built Lobster
boat, but that is a fiction of a vivid mind. Harry is always willing to
send photos, proof of bill of sale and offer to have to take people
fishing
on his Parker. No one has ever seen the Lobster Boat, except someone
who
was posting using Harry's IP. Someone made a $10,000 bet to prove
ownership
of the Lobster Boat, someone offered to make a $1000 contribution to the
Salvation Army if Harry showed proof of ownership of the Lobster Boat.
Harry cowered away from both of these offers.

That aside, the odds are that Harry does own a Parker, he just never uses
it.
Yesterday, I had a great day on the boat. Picked up some chicken, slaw
and
potato salad and headed up to the lake. Did a little work on the boat,
draining the fresh water lines and filling the lines with Pink Stuff. I
then headed out for a beautiful day on the lake. Read a book, eat some
lunch and got some sun. I have always though fall is the best time of
the
year. It is very quiet on the lake and it is more comfortable than the
summer. I am still approximately 30 days from Winterizing the engine.
If
there is a unexpected freeze, I can winterize the engine in less than 2
hrs.

"JIMinFL" wrote in message
ink.net...
Why don't you guys meet on some neutral turf and duke it out for
bragging
rights since it appears that neither one of you have boats.

"Skipper" wrote in message
...
Harry Krause wrote:

Early on Krause was presented an opportunity to backup his
assertions
regarding certain boating and trailering products and verify his
boating
skills. As it came time for rubber to hit the road in this
reasonable
test, Harry whimpered off. That's the thing about Harry, when
Challenged, he seems unable to stand tall.

You still are trying to sell this b.s.? Your "challenge" required me
to
tow a boat what, 2000-2500 miles? For what? To meet up with an ass
like
you who allegedly owned a 22' Crappyliner? Maybe stupid works in
Derby,
Kansas, but not in my zipcodes.

No doubt, taking on such a Challenge with your skill set and
unsuitable
equipment would indeed have been a stupid and futile undertaking.
Point
is, when given the opportunity to back up *your* words, you puked out.
It's in the archives.

--
Skipper

"Dr. Dr. Smithers" Ask Me about my Phd @ Diploma Mill .com wrote in
message ...
I know people who use a bilge heater to protect the engine, this makes it
very easy to winterize the boat, just drain the fresh water lines and fill
them up with pink stuff.

That is basically what he is going to do.


I have always shied away from it because as soon as there was a hard
freeze
I am sure the marina would have a power failure. ; )

And where the live aboards stay is way out there

The winter is a great time to boat, but I would find a 29' to be cramped
for
long term living.

Me too, but he is a single ex marine.......now a cop in Detroit ( I think
the marine gig was safer)

The one positive thing about the Four Winns, it is the only boat of that
size that I have been on that I can stadn straight up in with room to spare
(I'm 6'6")


"P Fritz" wrote in message
...
Must be nice.........mine was shrink wrapped over the weekend.....:-(

I have one friend who is living aboard his 29' Four Winns over the
winter............

"Dr. Dr. Smithers" Ask Me about my Phd @ Diploma Mill .com wrote in
message ...
JiminFl,
Harry has a 25' Parker, he likes to talk about his custom built Lobster
boat, but that is a fiction of a vivid mind. Harry is always willing
to
send photos, proof of bill of sale and offer to have to take people
fishing
on his Parker. No one has ever seen the Lobster Boat, except someone
who
was posting using Harry's IP. Someone made a $10,000 bet to prove
ownership
of the Lobster Boat, someone offered to make a $1000 contribution to
the
Salvation Army if Harry showed proof of ownership of the Lobster Boat.
Harry cowered away from both of these offers.

That aside, the odds are that Harry does own a Parker, he just never
uses
it.
Yesterday, I had a great day on the boat. Picked up some chicken, slaw
and
potato salad and headed up to the lake. Did a little work on the
boat,
draining the fresh water lines and filling the lines with Pink Stuff.
I
then headed out for a beautiful day on the lake. Read a book, eat some
lunch and got some sun. I have always though fall is the best time of
the
year. It is very quiet on the lake and it is more comfortable than
the
summer. I am still approximately 30 days from Winterizing the engine.
If
there is a unexpected freeze, I can winterize the engine in less than 2
hrs.

"JIMinFL" wrote in message
ink.net...
Why don't you guys meet on some neutral turf and duke it out for
bragging
rights since it appears that neither one of you have boats.

"Skipper" wrote in message
...
Harry Krause wrote:

Early on Krause was presented an opportunity to backup his
assertions
regarding certain boating and trailering products and verify his
boating
skills. As it came time for rubber to hit the road in this
reasonable
test, Harry whimpered off. That's the thing about Harry, when
Challenged, he seems unable to stand tall.

You still are trying to sell this b.s.? Your "challenge" required
me
to
tow a boat what, 2000-2500 miles? For what? To meet up with an ass
like
you who allegedly owned a 22' Crappyliner? Maybe stupid works in
Derby,
Kansas, but not in my zipcodes.

No doubt, taking on such a Challenge with your skill set and
unsuitable
equipment would indeed have been a stupid and futile undertaking.
Point
is, when given the opportunity to back up *your* words, you puked
out.
It's in the archives.

--
Skipper

I'm just sort of lurking in this part of the debate. Natives in places
like Minnesota were wiped out by the Spanish?

Jeff Rigby wrote:
No that's a misquote, I mentioned that the east and southeast of the
continental United States had this massive depopulation.

Actually, I don't believe you specified *where* 80% of the native
Americans had been been wiped out. And you certainly did not say
anything about long term depopulation.


.. DSK, misread and
or misquoted.

Yeah, that must be it!

You don't ever actually say untruthful or stupid things, you just get
misunderestimated!


Climate has a lot to do with the spread of disease. The warmer climates
spread typhus and cholera faster than the cold climates.


Duh. Funny how there's little malaria in Canada, eh?

OTOH diseases like smallpox, which is among most deadly and is
documented to have ripped thru the New England tribes in several waves,
is virulent in all climates and is contagious for years. In fact, one of
the web sites you gave links to mentioned a smallpox epidemic caused by
digging a pipeline thru a graveyard of smallpox victims, decades later.

It is possible... not very likely, but possible... that by the early
1800s the overall Indian population was down to 20% of what it had been
at peak, before the arrival of Europeans. But since we don't know how
many there were at either time, there's not much point in insisting on it.

One thing we agree on, the white man's diseases (including alcoholism)
killed a lot more Indians than bullets ever did.

DSK

"Skipper" wrote in message
...
No doubt, taking on such a Challenge with your skill set and unsuitable
equipment would indeed have been a stupid and futile undertaking. Point
is, when given the opportunity to back up *your* words, you puked out.
It's in the archives.

So true...so very true.

Just like when caught in many of his lies, when confronted with the
undisputable facts that prove he lied...he just silently fades away. Of
course, that is why he marks his post with "xarchive-no"...what other
possible reason could there be?

What a poor excuse for a man he is...sheesh...


--
-Netsock

"It's just about going fast...that's all..."
http://home.columbus.rr.com/ckg/