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NOYB November 4th 05 04:08 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 
1 Attachment(s)

Obstruction for What?
Libby is charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed.

Saturday, October 29, 2005 12:01 a.m. EDT

Patrick Fitzgerald's investigation took nearly two years, sent a reporter to
jail, cost millions of dollars, and preoccupied some of the White House's
senior officials. The fruit it has now borne is the five-count indictment of
I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, the Vice President's Chief of Staff--not for
leaking the name of Valerie Plame to Robert Novak, which started this entire
"scandal," but for contradictions between his testimony and the testimony of
two or three reporters about what he told them, when he told them, and what
words he used.

Mr. Fitzgerald would not comment yesterday on whether he had evidence for
the perjury, obstruction of justice and false statement counts beyond the
testimonies of Mr. Libby and three journalists. Instead, he noted that a
criminal investigation into a "national security matter" of this sort hinged
on "very fine distinctions," and that any attempt to obscure exactly who
told what to whom and when was a serious matter.

Let us stipulate that impeding a criminal investigation is indeed a serious
matter; no one should feel he can lie to a grand jury or to federal
investigators. But there is a question to be asked about the end to which
the accused allegedly lied. The indictment itself contains no motive. And
Mr. Libby is not alleged to have been the source for Robert Novak's July 14,
2003 column, in which Valerie Plame's employment with the CIA was revealed.

Rather, according to the indictment, Mr. Libby did a little digging, found
out who Joe Wilson's wife was, and apparently told Judith Miller of the New
York Times, who never wrote it up, and Matthew Cooper of Time magazine, who
put it into print after Mr. Novak's column had run. What's more, he
allegedly did not talk to Tim Russert of NBC about it, although he claimed
that he had. Mr. Libby then didn't tell a grand jury and the FBI the truth
about what he told those reporters, the indictment claims.

If this is a conspiracy to silence Administration critics, it was more daft
than deft. The indictment itself contains no evidence of a conspiracy, and
Mr. Libby has not been accused of trying to cover up some high crime or
misdemeanor by the Bush Administration. The indictment amounts to an
allegation that one official lied about what he knew about an underlying
"crime" that wasn't committed. And we still don't know who did tell Mr.
Novak--presumably, it was the soon-to-be-infamous "Official A" from
paragraph 21 of the indictment, although we don't know whether Official A
was Mr. Novak's primary source or merely a corroborating one.





To the extent that the facts alleged in the indictment can be relied upon,
the story goes something like this. Sometime in May 2003, or slightly
before, Nicholas Kristof, a columnist for the New York Times, was informed
of Joe Wilson's 2002 trip to Niger to investigate claims that Saddam Hussein
had attempted to buy yellowcake there. Mr. Kristof wrote a column, and Mr.
Libby began to ask around, to determine why a Democratic partisan had been
sent on such a sensitive mission in the run-up to the Iraq war. He allegedly
learned in the course of his inquiries that Mr. Wilson's wife worked for the
CIA.
Mr. Fitzgerald alleges that Mr. Libby informed Judith Miller of the New York
Times about Mr. Wilson's wife in June, but she never wrote it up. In the
meantime, Mr. Wilson went public with his own account of his mission and its
outcome, without reference to his wife's employment or possible involvement
in his trip.

Mr. Libby also spoke to Mr. Cooper of Time about it, who did write it up,
but only after Mr. Novak's column had run. In this same time period, he had
a conversation with Mr. Russert, which may or may not have covered Mr.
Wilson and his wife, depending on whom you believe.

So, we are left with this. Did Mr. Libby offer the truth about Mr. Wilson to
Mr. Cooper "without qualifications," as Mr. Fitzgerald alleges, or did he
merely confirm what Mr. Cooper had heard elsewhere? Did he, or did he not,
discuss Mr. Wilson with Tim Russert at all?

On this much we can agree with Mr. Fitzgerald: These are "very fine
distinctions" indeed, especially as they pertain to discussions that
occurred two years ago, and whose importance only became clear well after
the fact, when investigators came knocking. In a statement yesterday, Mr.
Libby's counsel zeroed in on this point when he said, "We are quite
distressed the Special Counsel has now sought to pursue alleged
inconsistencies in Mr. Libby's recollection and those of others' and to
charge such inconsistencies as false statements." He added that they "will
defend vigorously against these charges."





On the answers to these questions hang a possible 30-year jail term and
$1.25 million in fines for a Bush Administration official who was merely
attempting to expose the truth about Mr. Wilson, a critic of the
Administration who was lying to the press about the nature of his
involvement in the Niger mission and about the nature of the intelligence
that it produced. In other words, Mr. Libby was defending Administration
policy against political attack, not committing a crime.
Mr. Fitzgerald has been dogged in pursuing his investigation, and he gave
every appearance of being a reasonable and tough prosecutor in laying out
the charges yesterday. But he has thrust himself into what was, at bottom, a
policy dispute between an elected Administration and critics of the
President's approach to the war on terror, who included parts of the
permanent bureaucracy of the State Department and CIA. Unless Mr. Fitzgerald
can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Mr. Libby was lying, and doing so
for some nefarious purpose, this indictment looks like a case of
criminalizing politics.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/weeken.../?id=110007476

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A policy dispute indeed! One that culminated into treason committed by
bureaucrats in State and the CIA who worked in concert to destabilize a
President.











bb November 4th 05 04:14 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 
On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 16:08:24 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:


Obstruction for What?
Libby is charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed.


Last I checked a bj wasn't a crime.

bb

Skipper November 4th 05 04:17 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 
NOYB wrote:

A policy dispute indeed! One that culminated into treason committed by
bureaucrats in State and the CIA who worked in concert to destabilize a
President.


And that is the way it is...treason by the Wilsons. They have done great
damage to America.

--
Skipper

Skipper November 4th 05 04:19 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 
bb wrote:

Obstruction for What?
Libby is charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed.


Last I checked a bj wasn't a crime.


Many prostitutes wish it were so.

--
Skipper

NOYB November 4th 05 04:20 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 

"bb" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 16:08:24 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:


Obstruction for What?
Libby is charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed.


Last I checked a bj wasn't a crime.


Precisely. So what were your thoughts about Clinton's impeachment? And how
do they jive with your eagerness to see Libby burn for a non-crime?




jps November 4th 05 05:13 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 
In article et,
says...

Obstruction for What?
Libby is charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed.


Then why lie?

If Scooter had nothing to hide, why lie?

TO A GRAND JURY??? Was Scooter asleep during Clinton's second term?

Clinton didn't commit a crime. He certainly was guilty of indiscretion
but philandering isn't a crime.

Were you unhappy when he was prosecuted for lying under oath?

jps

jps November 4th 05 05:15 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 
In article , says...
bb wrote:

Obstruction for What?
Libby is charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed.


Last I checked a bj wasn't a crime.


Many prostitutes wish it were so.


That's right Snippy. Clearly, you've never had sex you haven't had to
pay for.

Last I heard Monica didn't charge, unlike your wife.

jps

jps November 4th 05 05:17 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 
In article . net,
says...

"bb" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 16:08:24 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:


Obstruction for What?
Libby is charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed.


Last I checked a bj wasn't a crime.


Precisely. So what were your thoughts about Clinton's impeachment? And how
do they jive with your eagerness to see Libby burn for a non-crime?


Oh for ****'s sake Toothy!

Clinton lied about an embarrassing bj.

Libby lied about the outing of a CIA agent.

Are those somehow moral/ethical equivalents in your mind?

No wonder you're a Republican.

jps

jps November 4th 05 05:23 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 
In article , says...
NOYB wrote:

A policy dispute indeed! One that culminated into treason committed by
bureaucrats in State and the CIA who worked in concert to destabilize a
President.


And that is the way it is...treason by the Wilsons. They have done great
damage to America.


You are an anti-american scum.

If anyone in Clinton's administration had outed a CIA agent, you'd have
called for their head on pike pole and the outed CIA agent would have
received the congressional medal of honor, a concert played for them at
the Kennedy Center featuring the marches of John Phillips Souza and a
lifetime supply of 24 hour security.

You're ****ing insane Snippy.

jps

Skipper November 4th 05 05:34 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 
jps wrote:

Skipper says...
bb wrote:


Obstruction for What?
Libby is charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed.


Last I checked a bj wasn't a crime.


Many prostitutes wish it were so.


That's right Snippy. Clearly, you've never had sex you haven't had to
pay for.


Last I heard Monica didn't charge, unlike your wife.


Clearly? Now if that's an example of a Dem's cognitive skills, it's no
wonder they're so screwed.

--
Skipper

jps November 4th 05 05:58 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 
In article , says...
jps wrote:

Skipper says...
bb wrote:


Obstruction for What?
Libby is charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed.


Last I checked a bj wasn't a crime.


Many prostitutes wish it were so.


That's right Snippy. Clearly, you've never had sex you haven't had to
pay for.


Last I heard Monica didn't charge, unlike your wife.


Clearly? Now if that's an example of a Dem's cognitive skills, it's no
wonder they're so screwed.


You wouldn't recognize a cognitive skill if it slapped you upside your
shriveled cranium.

You're a backwoods borg, born of hayseed.

jps

Skipper November 4th 05 06:04 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 
Harry Krause wrote:

Skipper wrote:
NOYB wrote:


A policy dispute indeed! One that culminated into treason committed by
bureaucrats in State and the CIA who worked in concert to destabilize a
President.


And that is the way it is...treason by the Wilsons. They have done great
damage to America.


Treason, eh? You'd think one of the Bushsh*t administration's many
prosecutors would be seeking indictments.


You'da thunk someone with an advanced degree in English would be able to
express themselves without cursing. One wonders if that was a
prevarication also.

--
Skipper

Skipper November 4th 05 06:06 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 
Harry Krause wrote:

Skipper wrote:
bb wrote:


Obstruction for What?
Libby is charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed.


Last I checked a bj wasn't a crime.


Many prostitutes wish it were so.


Especially after one of your visits, eh?


Particularly when one is up for The Challenge.

--
Skipper

Skipper November 4th 05 06:11 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 
Harry Krause wrote:

Libby is a really smart guy. If he lied, it was to cover up for his
former boss, Dicqueless Cheney.


You present as a very frustrated person, Krause. Did you short your
Halliburton stock?

--
Skipper

NOYB November 4th 05 06:17 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article et,
says...

Obstruction for What?
Libby is charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed.


Then why lie?


I don't think the facts will bear out that he lied. His testimony may not
square with the testimony of a few news reporters (Russert, Cooper, etc0
but that doesn't mean that his testimony is false.

Finding out who lied is what the trial is about. Someone obviously isn't
telling the truth...and it very well could be Russert and Cooper. (As a side
note, Bush must be absolutely delighted that someone in his staff is getting
raked over the coals as a result of speaking with the media. Bush hates
leaks, and he can use this Libby incident as an example to warn other admin
officials to shut up)


So your next question is: why not charge Russert and Cooper? Because it's
impractical at this point to charge two people whose stories match rather
than one single entity whose story doesn't match the other two. Did you
read the indictment?

Here are the important excerpts:

According to Libby:

"Russert asked LIBBY if LIBBY knew that Wilson's wife worked for

the CIA, and told LIBBY that all the reporters knew it; and

At the time of this conversation, LIBBY was surprised to hear that

Wilson's wife worked for the CIA;"



According to Russert:

"Russert did not ask LIBBY if LIBBY knew that Wilson's wife

worked for the CIA, nor did he tell LIBBY that all the reporters knew

it"



(so why are we supposed to believe Libby over Russert? This is where
perjury charge came from)



Libby then repeated the same statement to the FBI that he made to the grand
jury:



During a conversation with Tim Russert of NBC News on July 10 or 11, 2003,

Russert asked LIBBY if LIBBY was aware that Wilson's wife worked for the
CIA.

LIBBY responded to Russert that he did not know that, and Russert replied
that all

the reporters knew it. LIBBY was surprised by this statement because, while

speaking with Russert, LIBBY did not recall that he previously had learned
about

Wilson's wife's employment from the Vice President.



(this is where the obstruction of justice charge came from. Notice that it
uses the same Russert/Libby dispute about where the Plame info came
from...and Libby stands by his story)



Two days later, Libby spoke with Cooper. Once again, Libby stated

that reporters were telling the administration that Wilson's wife

worked for the CIA, but LIBBY did not know if this was true. Or if he did,

he states that he didn't confirm the story for Cooper.



Cooper's testimony is :



"LIBBY confirmed for Cooper, without qualification, that

LIBBY had heard that Wilson's wife worked at the CIA"

(So is Libby telling the truth or Cooper?)

Even if Libby and Russert knew about Plame before they each spoke (which
Libby disputes), Libby refused to confirm for Russert that he knew for sure
that Plame was a CIA agent:

" I didn't want him (Russert) to take anything I was saying as in

any way confirming what he said, because at that point in time I did not
recall that

I had ever known, and I thought this is something that he was telling me
that I was

first learning. And so I said, no, I don't know that because I want to be
very careful

not to confirm it for him, so that he didn't take my statement as
confirmation for him.



Mr. Russert said to me, did you know that Ambassador Wilson's wife, or his
wife, works at the CIA? And I said, no, I don't know that. And then he said,
yeah - yes, all the reporters know it. And I said,

again, I don't know that. I just wanted to be clear that I wasn't confirming
anything

for him on this."























Skipper November 4th 05 06:18 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 
Harry Krause wrote:

Try to find something you know and entertain us with that, eh?


Certainly. Let's talk lobsta boats.

--
Skipper

NOYB November 4th 05 06:34 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
says...

"bb" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 16:08:24 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:


Obstruction for What?
Libby is charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed.

Last I checked a bj wasn't a crime.


Precisely. So what were your thoughts about Clinton's impeachment? And
how
do they jive with your eagerness to see Libby burn for a non-crime?


Oh for ****'s sake Toothy!

Clinton lied about an embarrassing bj.

Libby lied about the outing of a CIA agent.


Libby is *accused* of lying. It hasn't been proven that Libby lied. It
easily could be Russert lying. Perhaps he heard Plame's name from people in
the CIA (perhaps Wilson or Plame!) who were seeking to use the press to
destabilize the Bush administration? Being the loyal liberal Democrat that
he is, he went right to the VP's office to let the CIA-led set-up begin.

That's the type of scenario that Jim Hoagland from the Washington Post
presented when he wrote:

"The hidden management of the criminal justice process AND THE NEWS MEDIA
practiced by spooks in Wilson-Rove-Libbygate is nothing short of brilliant.

So you (Bush) were right to fear the agency. Where else do you think the
one-page
crime report that triggered the investigation and then the pressure-building
leaks disclosing its existence came from?""

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...202277_pf.html





P Fritz November 4th 05 06:41 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 

"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
says...

"bb" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 16:08:24 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:


Obstruction for What?
Libby is charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed.

Last I checked a bj wasn't a crime.

Precisely. So what were your thoughts about Clinton's impeachment?

And
how
do they jive with your eagerness to see Libby burn for a non-crime?


Oh for ****'s sake Toothy!

Clinton lied about an embarrassing bj.

Libby lied about the outing of a CIA agent.


Libby is *accused* of lying. It hasn't been proven that Libby lied. It
easily could be Russert lying. Perhaps he heard Plame's name from people

in
the CIA (perhaps Wilson or Plame!) who were seeking to use the press to
destabilize the Bush administration? Being the loyal liberal Democrat

that
he is, he went right to the VP's office to let the CIA-led set-up begin.

That's the type of scenario that Jim Hoagland from the Washington Post
presented when he wrote:

"The hidden management of the criminal justice process AND THE NEWS MEDIA
practiced by spooks in Wilson-Rove-Libbygate is nothing short of

brilliant.

So you (Bush) were right to fear the agency. Where else do you think the
one-page
crime report that triggered the investigation and then the

pressure-building
leaks disclosing its existence came from?""


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2/AR2005110202
277_pf.html



And there was no "outing" of a CIA agent either.





jps November 4th 05 07:20 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 
In article et,
says...

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
says...

"bb" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 16:08:24 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:


Obstruction for What?
Libby is charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed.

Last I checked a bj wasn't a crime.

Precisely. So what were your thoughts about Clinton's impeachment? And
how
do they jive with your eagerness to see Libby burn for a non-crime?


Oh for ****'s sake Toothy!

Clinton lied about an embarrassing bj.

Libby lied about the outing of a CIA agent.


Libby is *accused* of lying.


So, if there was no crime or misuse of power, why did Libby testify the
way he did?

Why would Libby say something that directly contradicts his own notes?

Perjury isn't something that's taken lightly by federal prosecutors.

Would you tell a different story than what you know is in your own notes
about the details being investigated?

If you'd like to wait until after he's gone to trial to find out whether
he did lie, so be it but don't bitch about the outcome beforehand.

If he's accused and not-guilty he'll get off. If he's convicted or plea
bargains then we'll know he lied and I'll once again ask the question,

Why would he lie?

jps

jps November 4th 05 07:27 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 
In article ,
says...

"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
says...

"bb" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 16:08:24 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:


Obstruction for What?
Libby is charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed.

Last I checked a bj wasn't a crime.

Precisely. So what were your thoughts about Clinton's impeachment?

And
how
do they jive with your eagerness to see Libby burn for a non-crime?

Oh for ****'s sake Toothy!

Clinton lied about an embarrassing bj.

Libby lied about the outing of a CIA agent.


Libby is *accused* of lying. It hasn't been proven that Libby lied. It
easily could be Russert lying. Perhaps he heard Plame's name from people

in
the CIA (perhaps Wilson or Plame!) who were seeking to use the press to
destabilize the Bush administration? Being the loyal liberal Democrat

that
he is, he went right to the VP's office to let the CIA-led set-up begin.

That's the type of scenario that Jim Hoagland from the Washington Post
presented when he wrote:

"The hidden management of the criminal justice process AND THE NEWS MEDIA
practiced by spooks in Wilson-Rove-Libbygate is nothing short of

brilliant.

So you (Bush) were right to fear the agency. Where else do you think the
one-page
crime report that triggered the investigation and then the

pressure-building
leaks disclosing its existence came from?""


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2/AR2005110202
277_pf.html



And there was no "outing" of a CIA agent either.


You, again, prove what an uninformed pea brain you are.

Valerie Plame was working in a company that was purposefully set up to
provide cover for a handful of CIA agents. Her specialty was WMDs.

Not only was her cover blown but the cover of all her associates in that
company were blown. The outing ruined several people's careers.

That's treasonous.

Libby, Rove and Cheney should be keel hauled somewhere around where the
Republicans were going to build the bridge to nowhere. During December.

jps


jps November 4th 05 07:32 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 
In article . net,
says...

I don't think the facts will bear out that he lied. His testimony may not
square with the testimony of a few news reporters (Russert, Cooper, etc0
but that doesn't mean that his testimony is false.


His testimony doesn't square with his own notes, contemporaneously
recorded when Cheney told him about Valerie Plame.

Game, set, match.

He lied. You prefer to wait for the replay to spin the truth.

OK.

jps

NOYB November 4th 05 07:35 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article et,
says...

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
says...

"bb" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 16:08:24 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:


Obstruction for What?
Libby is charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed.

Last I checked a bj wasn't a crime.

Precisely. So what were your thoughts about Clinton's impeachment?
And
how
do they jive with your eagerness to see Libby burn for a non-crime?

Oh for ****'s sake Toothy!

Clinton lied about an embarrassing bj.

Libby lied about the outing of a CIA agent.


Libby is *accused* of lying.


So, if there was no crime or misuse of power, why did Libby testify the
way he did?

Why would Libby say something that directly contradicts his own notes?


Libby said something that blatantly contradicted Russert's testimony. One
of them is lying about that conversation. The indictment suggests that it
was Libby who lied...but the trial should show where the truth really lies.

Libby said something that didn't square perfectly with Cooper's testimony,
but it wasn't as blatant a difference as in the Russert testimony...and it
could easily be excused as unreliable memory (from either party) as to what
happened.




Perjury isn't something that's taken lightly by federal prosecutors.


No kidding. It got the 42nd President impeached.


Would you tell a different story than what you know is in your own notes
about the details being investigated?


I didn't read that in the indictment.



If you'd like to wait until after he's gone to trial to find out whether
he did lie, so be it but don't bitch about the outcome beforehand.


I'm not. I'm upset that he resigned his position beforehand. If found
innocent, Cheney ought to reinstate him.



If he's accused and not-guilty he'll get off. If he's convicted or plea
bargains then we'll know he lied and I'll once again ask the question,

Why would he lie?


I don't know...particularly since it wasn't a crime. Why would Russert lie?
Why would Wilson lie? They certainly have a better motive (ie--to
destabilize a President whose public policy they disagreed with).



NOYB November 4th 05 07:45 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
says...

I don't think the facts will bear out that he lied. His testimony may
not
square with the testimony of a few news reporters (Russert, Cooper, etc0
but that doesn't mean that his testimony is false.


His testimony doesn't square with his own notes, contemporaneously
recorded when Cheney told him about Valerie Plame.


He testified that Russert told him about Plame...not the other way around.
He also testified that he told Russert that he didn't know it to be true or
not. Did he lie to Russert? Perhaps. Did he lie to Fitzgerald? Maybe
not. But is it a crime to lie to a news reporter? Especially a reporter who
is fishing for a story by pretending to know the answer to the questions
he's asking?












jps November 4th 05 07:47 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 
In article , says...
Harry Krause wrote:

Try to find something you know and entertain us with that, eh?


Certainly. Let's talk lobsta boats.


What would you know about lobster boats?

Ever own anything other than a bayliner?

jps

P Fritz November 4th 05 07:48 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article et,
says...

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
says...

"bb" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 16:08:24 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:


Obstruction for What?
Libby is charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed.

Last I checked a bj wasn't a crime.

Precisely. So what were your thoughts about Clinton's impeachment?
And
how
do they jive with your eagerness to see Libby burn for a non-crime?

Oh for ****'s sake Toothy!

Clinton lied about an embarrassing bj.

Libby lied about the outing of a CIA agent.

Libby is *accused* of lying.


So, if there was no crime or misuse of power, why did Libby testify the
way he did?

Why would Libby say something that directly contradicts his own notes?


Libby said something that blatantly contradicted Russert's testimony. One
of them is lying about that conversation. The indictment suggests that it
was Libby who lied...but the trial should show where the truth really

lies.

Libby said something that didn't square perfectly with Cooper's testimony,
but it wasn't as blatant a difference as in the Russert testimony...and it
could easily be excused as unreliable memory (from either party) as to

what
happened.


Yeah......try remembering the order and content of your conversations from a
year ago.........





Perjury isn't something that's taken lightly by federal prosecutors.


No kidding. It got the 42nd President impeached.


Would you tell a different story than what you know is in your own notes
about the details being investigated?


I didn't read that in the indictment.



If you'd like to wait until after he's gone to trial to find out whether
he did lie, so be it but don't bitch about the outcome beforehand.


I'm not. I'm upset that he resigned his position beforehand. If found
innocent, Cheney ought to reinstate him.


He needed to resign in order to devote his time to fighting the
charge..........he could not have handled his position while trying to
defend himself.




If he's accused and not-guilty he'll get off. If he's convicted or plea
bargains then we'll know he lied and I'll once again ask the question,

Why would he lie?


I don't know...particularly since it wasn't a crime. Why would Russert

lie?
Why would Wilson lie? They certainly have a better motive (ie--to
destabilize a President whose public policy they disagreed with).





NOYB November 4th 05 08:01 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 

"P Fritz" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article et,
says...

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
says...

"bb" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 16:08:24 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:


Obstruction for What?
Libby is charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed.

Last I checked a bj wasn't a crime.

Precisely. So what were your thoughts about Clinton's impeachment?
And
how
do they jive with your eagerness to see Libby burn for a non-crime?

Oh for ****'s sake Toothy!

Clinton lied about an embarrassing bj.

Libby lied about the outing of a CIA agent.

Libby is *accused* of lying.

So, if there was no crime or misuse of power, why did Libby testify the
way he did?

Why would Libby say something that directly contradicts his own notes?


Libby said something that blatantly contradicted Russert's testimony.
One
of them is lying about that conversation. The indictment suggests that
it
was Libby who lied...but the trial should show where the truth really

lies.

Libby said something that didn't square perfectly with Cooper's
testimony,
but it wasn't as blatant a difference as in the Russert testimony...and
it
could easily be excused as unreliable memory (from either party) as to

what
happened.


Yeah......try remembering the order and content of your conversations from
a
year ago.........





Perjury isn't something that's taken lightly by federal prosecutors.


No kidding. It got the 42nd President impeached.


Would you tell a different story than what you know is in your own
notes
about the details being investigated?


I didn't read that in the indictment.



If you'd like to wait until after he's gone to trial to find out
whether
he did lie, so be it but don't bitch about the outcome beforehand.


I'm not. I'm upset that he resigned his position beforehand. If found
innocent, Cheney ought to reinstate him.


He needed to resign in order to devote his time to fighting the
charge..........he could not have handled his position while trying to
defend himself.



Leon Panetta made this point very strongly last night on the News Hour with
Jim Lehrer. He also went on to say that *anyone* in the Administratoin who
gets indicted should resign their post until their name is cleared.
Unfortunately, Lehrer missed this meatball lobbed right over the plate. A
sharper host would have asked Leon why he didn't favor this strategy for
*his* boss just 7 years ago?







P Fritz November 4th 05 08:06 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"P Fritz" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article et,
says...

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
says...

"bb" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 16:08:24 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:


Obstruction for What?
Libby is charged with lying about a crime that wasn't

committed.

Last I checked a bj wasn't a crime.

Precisely. So what were your thoughts about Clinton's

impeachment?
And
how
do they jive with your eagerness to see Libby burn for a

non-crime?

Oh for ****'s sake Toothy!

Clinton lied about an embarrassing bj.

Libby lied about the outing of a CIA agent.

Libby is *accused* of lying.

So, if there was no crime or misuse of power, why did Libby testify

the
way he did?

Why would Libby say something that directly contradicts his own

notes?

Libby said something that blatantly contradicted Russert's testimony.
One
of them is lying about that conversation. The indictment suggests that
it
was Libby who lied...but the trial should show where the truth really

lies.

Libby said something that didn't square perfectly with Cooper's
testimony,
but it wasn't as blatant a difference as in the Russert testimony...and
it
could easily be excused as unreliable memory (from either party) as to

what
happened.


Yeah......try remembering the order and content of your conversations

from
a
year ago.........





Perjury isn't something that's taken lightly by federal prosecutors.

No kidding. It got the 42nd President impeached.


Would you tell a different story than what you know is in your own
notes
about the details being investigated?

I didn't read that in the indictment.



If you'd like to wait until after he's gone to trial to find out
whether
he did lie, so be it but don't bitch about the outcome beforehand.

I'm not. I'm upset that he resigned his position beforehand. If found
innocent, Cheney ought to reinstate him.


He needed to resign in order to devote his time to fighting the
charge..........he could not have handled his position while trying to
defend himself.



Leon Panetta made this point very strongly last night on the News Hour

with
Jim Lehrer. He also went on to say that *anyone* in the Administratoin

who
gets indicted should resign their post until their name is cleared.
Unfortunately, Lehrer missed this meatball lobbed right over the plate. A
sharper host would have asked Leon why he didn't favor this strategy for
*his* boss just 7 years ago?



LMAO











NOYB November 4th 05 08:10 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 

"P Fritz" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"P Fritz" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article et,
says...

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article
. net,
says...

"bb" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 16:08:24 GMT, "NOYB"
wrote:


Obstruction for What?
Libby is charged with lying about a crime that wasn't

committed.

Last I checked a bj wasn't a crime.

Precisely. So what were your thoughts about Clinton's

impeachment?
And
how
do they jive with your eagerness to see Libby burn for a

non-crime?

Oh for ****'s sake Toothy!

Clinton lied about an embarrassing bj.

Libby lied about the outing of a CIA agent.

Libby is *accused* of lying.

So, if there was no crime or misuse of power, why did Libby testify

the
way he did?

Why would Libby say something that directly contradicts his own

notes?

Libby said something that blatantly contradicted Russert's testimony.
One
of them is lying about that conversation. The indictment suggests
that
it
was Libby who lied...but the trial should show where the truth really
lies.

Libby said something that didn't square perfectly with Cooper's
testimony,
but it wasn't as blatant a difference as in the Russert
testimony...and
it
could easily be excused as unreliable memory (from either party) as to
what
happened.

Yeah......try remembering the order and content of your conversations

from
a
year ago.........





Perjury isn't something that's taken lightly by federal prosecutors.

No kidding. It got the 42nd President impeached.


Would you tell a different story than what you know is in your own
notes
about the details being investigated?

I didn't read that in the indictment.



If you'd like to wait until after he's gone to trial to find out
whether
he did lie, so be it but don't bitch about the outcome beforehand.

I'm not. I'm upset that he resigned his position beforehand. If
found
innocent, Cheney ought to reinstate him.

He needed to resign in order to devote his time to fighting the
charge..........he could not have handled his position while trying to
defend himself.



Leon Panetta made this point very strongly last night on the News Hour

with
Jim Lehrer. He also went on to say that *anyone* in the Administratoin

who
gets indicted should resign their post until their name is cleared.
Unfortunately, Lehrer missed this meatball lobbed right over the plate.
A
sharper host would have asked Leon why he didn't favor this strategy for
*his* boss just 7 years ago?



LMAO


I thought it was funny too...so I replayed it and hit "save" on my DVR.




*JimH* November 4th 05 08:16 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 

"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...

"P Fritz" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"P Fritz" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article et,
says...

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article
. net,
says...

"bb" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 16:08:24 GMT, "NOYB"
wrote:


Obstruction for What?
Libby is charged with lying about a crime that wasn't

committed.

Last I checked a bj wasn't a crime.

Precisely. So what were your thoughts about Clinton's

impeachment?
And
how
do they jive with your eagerness to see Libby burn for a

non-crime?

Oh for ****'s sake Toothy!

Clinton lied about an embarrassing bj.

Libby lied about the outing of a CIA agent.

Libby is *accused* of lying.

So, if there was no crime or misuse of power, why did Libby testify

the
way he did?

Why would Libby say something that directly contradicts his own

notes?

Libby said something that blatantly contradicted Russert's testimony.
One
of them is lying about that conversation. The indictment suggests
that
it
was Libby who lied...but the trial should show where the truth really
lies.

Libby said something that didn't square perfectly with Cooper's
testimony,
but it wasn't as blatant a difference as in the Russert
testimony...and
it
could easily be excused as unreliable memory (from either party) as
to
what
happened.

Yeah......try remembering the order and content of your conversations

from
a
year ago.........





Perjury isn't something that's taken lightly by federal
prosecutors.

No kidding. It got the 42nd President impeached.


Would you tell a different story than what you know is in your own
notes
about the details being investigated?

I didn't read that in the indictment.



If you'd like to wait until after he's gone to trial to find out
whether
he did lie, so be it but don't bitch about the outcome beforehand.

I'm not. I'm upset that he resigned his position beforehand. If
found
innocent, Cheney ought to reinstate him.

He needed to resign in order to devote his time to fighting the
charge..........he could not have handled his position while trying to
defend himself.


Leon Panetta made this point very strongly last night on the News Hour

with
Jim Lehrer. He also went on to say that *anyone* in the Administratoin

who
gets indicted should resign their post until their name is cleared.
Unfortunately, Lehrer missed this meatball lobbed right over the plate.
A
sharper host would have asked Leon why he didn't favor this strategy for
*his* boss just 7 years ago?



LMAO


I thought it was funny too...so I replayed it and hit "save" on my DVR.




Speaking of DVR's...........how do you like yours? Do you have to subscribe
to TiVo?



NOYB November 4th 05 08:19 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 

" *JimH*" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...

"P Fritz" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"P Fritz" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article et,
says...

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article
. net,
says...

"bb" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 16:08:24 GMT, "NOYB"
wrote:


Obstruction for What?
Libby is charged with lying about a crime that wasn't
committed.

Last I checked a bj wasn't a crime.

Precisely. So what were your thoughts about Clinton's
impeachment?
And
how
do they jive with your eagerness to see Libby burn for a
non-crime?

Oh for ****'s sake Toothy!

Clinton lied about an embarrassing bj.

Libby lied about the outing of a CIA agent.

Libby is *accused* of lying.

So, if there was no crime or misuse of power, why did Libby
testify
the
way he did?

Why would Libby say something that directly contradicts his own
notes?

Libby said something that blatantly contradicted Russert's
testimony.
One
of them is lying about that conversation. The indictment suggests
that
it
was Libby who lied...but the trial should show where the truth
really
lies.

Libby said something that didn't square perfectly with Cooper's
testimony,
but it wasn't as blatant a difference as in the Russert
testimony...and
it
could easily be excused as unreliable memory (from either party) as
to
what
happened.

Yeah......try remembering the order and content of your conversations
from
a
year ago.........





Perjury isn't something that's taken lightly by federal
prosecutors.

No kidding. It got the 42nd President impeached.


Would you tell a different story than what you know is in your own
notes
about the details being investigated?

I didn't read that in the indictment.



If you'd like to wait until after he's gone to trial to find out
whether
he did lie, so be it but don't bitch about the outcome beforehand.

I'm not. I'm upset that he resigned his position beforehand. If
found
innocent, Cheney ought to reinstate him.

He needed to resign in order to devote his time to fighting the
charge..........he could not have handled his position while trying
to
defend himself.


Leon Panetta made this point very strongly last night on the News Hour
with
Jim Lehrer. He also went on to say that *anyone* in the Administratoin
who
gets indicted should resign their post until their name is cleared.
Unfortunately, Lehrer missed this meatball lobbed right over the plate.
A
sharper host would have asked Leon why he didn't favor this strategy
for
*his* boss just 7 years ago?


LMAO


I thought it was funny too...so I replayed it and hit "save" on my DVR.




Speaking of DVR's...........how do you like yours? Do you have to
subscribe to TiVo?



I like it. It's part of my Dish Network satellite receiver.



jps November 4th 05 09:00 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 
In article ,
says...

Yeah......try remembering the order and content of your conversations from a
year ago.........


Pinhead,

He had copies of notes that he turned over. Don't you think he was
smart enough to have a look at them before testifying?

Either he didn't think the investigators were smart enough to find the
evidence in his notes or he was purposefully lying to protect his boss.

Either way, the cocksucker lied.

In your book, that means he's a liberal, right?

jps

John H. November 4th 05 09:01 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 
On Fri, 4 Nov 2005 09:23:36 -0800, jps wrote:

In article , says...
NOYB wrote:

A policy dispute indeed! One that culminated into treason committed by
bureaucrats in State and the CIA who worked in concert to destabilize a
President.


And that is the way it is...treason by the Wilsons. They have done great
damage to America.


You are an anti-american scum.

If anyone in Clinton's administration had outed a CIA agent, you'd have
called for their head on pike pole and the outed CIA agent would have
received the congressional medal of honor, a concert played for them at
the Kennedy Center featuring the marches of John Phillips Souza and a
lifetime supply of 24 hour security.

You're ****ing insane Snippy.

jps


Anyone in the Clinton administration outing a CIA agent would deserve all you
suggest. The same is true for anyone in the Bush administration. No one in
either administration has been shown to have done so.

So, why are you calling names?
--
John H

"It's *not* a baby kicking, bride of mine, it's just a fetus!"

HK

John H. November 4th 05 09:02 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 
On Fri, 4 Nov 2005 09:13:39 -0800, jps wrote:

In article et,
says...

Obstruction for What?
Libby is charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed.


Then why lie?

If Scooter had nothing to hide, why lie?

TO A GRAND JURY??? Was Scooter asleep during Clinton's second term?

Clinton didn't commit a crime. He certainly was guilty of indiscretion
but philandering isn't a crime.

Were you unhappy when he was prosecuted for lying under oath?

jps


Has anyone proven yet that Libby lied?
--
John H

"It's *not* a baby kicking, bride of mine, it's just a fetus!"

HK

jps November 4th 05 09:11 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 
In article . net,
says...

Leon Panetta made this point very strongly last night on the News Hour with
Jim Lehrer. He also went on to say that *anyone* in the Administratoin who
gets indicted should resign their post until their name is cleared.
Unfortunately, Lehrer missed this meatball lobbed right over the plate. A
sharper host would have asked Leon why he didn't favor this strategy for
*his* boss just 7 years ago?


Lehrer is above that, which is why he's the anchor and you drill stanky
teeth.

I disagree with Panetta and haven't the slightest idea why anyone who
hasn't been convicted, much less indicted, should give up his post. The
matter of resignation should be between themselves and their bosses.

It's an affront to our system of jurisprudence and the presumption of
innocence. That said, the Republicans are awfully quick to condemn
people, even when presumed innocent.

That they eat their own isn't surprising.

jps


John H. November 4th 05 09:15 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 
On Fri, 4 Nov 2005 13:00:53 -0800, jps wrote:

In article ,
says...

Yeah......try remembering the order and content of your conversations from a
year ago.........


Pinhead,

He had copies of notes that he turned over. Don't you think he was
smart enough to have a look at them before testifying?

Either he didn't think the investigators were smart enough to find the
evidence in his notes or he was purposefully lying to protect his boss.

Either way, the cocksucker lied.

In your book, that means he's a liberal, right?

jps


Now you're throwing 'cocksucker' into the fray. My gosh, what do you guys do
with each other?
--
John H

"It's *not* a baby kicking, bride of mine, it's just a fetus!"

HK

jps November 4th 05 09:17 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 
In article . net,
says...

"jps" wrote in message
...


His testimony doesn't square with his own notes, contemporaneously
recorded when Cheney told him about Valerie Plame.


He testified that Russert told him about Plame...not the other way around.


And his notes show that Cheney told him about Plame at least several
weeks prior to Russert.

He also testified that he told Russert that he didn't know it to be true or
not. Did he lie to Russert? Perhaps.


Who care? Folks in this administration lie all the time.

Did he lie to Fitzgerald? Maybe


Oh yeah. Sho enoff.

not. But is it a crime to lie to a news reporter?


No, and he's not being charged for lying to a news reporter. He's being
charged for lying to the investigators of the leak.

Especially a reporter who
is fishing for a story by pretending to know the answer to the questions
he's asking?


Oh jeez, Scooter went to college and became a lawyer. He's been at the
top of his game for quite some time. You feel sorry for him because a
reporter asked him leading questions?

Whew.

I expect our president is that stupid but not the folks surrounding him.

jps

NOYB November 4th 05 09:20 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
says...

Leon Panetta made this point very strongly last night on the News Hour
with
Jim Lehrer. He also went on to say that *anyone* in the Administratoin
who
gets indicted should resign their post until their name is cleared.
Unfortunately, Lehrer missed this meatball lobbed right over the plate.
A
sharper host would have asked Leon why he didn't favor this strategy for
*his* boss just 7 years ago?


Lehrer is above that, which is why he's the anchor and you drill stanky
teeth.

I disagree with Panetta and haven't the slightest idea why anyone who
hasn't been convicted, much less indicted, should give up his post. The
matter of resignation should be between themselves and their bosses.


I'm sure Panetta felt that way 7 years ago. He's only 67, so it can't be
that he's getting old and losing his memory.

When I heard him say it, I thought to myself "what a hypocrite!".

But I agree with you on this for the most part.



jps November 4th 05 09:32 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 
In article , PocoLoco415
@hotmail.com says...
On Fri, 4 Nov 2005 13:00:53 -0800, jps wrote:

In article ,
says...

Yeah......try remembering the order and content of your conversations from a
year ago.........


Pinhead,

He had copies of notes that he turned over. Don't you think he was
smart enough to have a look at them before testifying?

Either he didn't think the investigators were smart enough to find the
evidence in his notes or he was purposefully lying to protect his boss.

Either way, the cocksucker lied.

In your book, that means he's a liberal, right?

jps


Now you're throwing 'cocksucker' into the fray. My gosh, what do you guys do
with each other?


It's a Deadwood thing. Ever watch it? Brilliant writing. Lots of
cussing. Favorite word around town is cocksucker.

If you haven't seen it, the first and second seasons are out on DVD.
Incredibly well done with a great cast.

jps

jps November 4th 05 09:35 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 
In article , PocoLoco415
@hotmail.com says...
On Fri, 4 Nov 2005 09:23:36 -0800, jps wrote:

In article , says...
NOYB wrote:

A policy dispute indeed! One that culminated into treason committed by
bureaucrats in State and the CIA who worked in concert to destabilize a
President.

And that is the way it is...treason by the Wilsons. They have done great
damage to America.


You are an anti-american scum.

If anyone in Clinton's administration had outed a CIA agent, you'd have
called for their head on pike pole and the outed CIA agent would have
received the congressional medal of honor, a concert played for them at
the Kennedy Center featuring the marches of John Phillips Souza and a
lifetime supply of 24 hour security.

You're ****ing insane Snippy.

jps


Anyone in the Clinton administration outing a CIA agent would deserve all you
suggest. The same is true for anyone in the Bush administration. No one in
either administration has been shown to have done so.

So, why are you calling names?


My rectal sphincter tightens when Snippy makes his outlandish claims
that he just read on his fave White Power website.

jps

jps November 4th 05 09:39 PM

OT--Charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed?
 
In article , PocoLoco415
@hotmail.com says...
On Fri, 4 Nov 2005 09:13:39 -0800, jps wrote:

In article et,
says...

Obstruction for What?
Libby is charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed.


Then why lie?

If Scooter had nothing to hide, why lie?

TO A GRAND JURY??? Was Scooter asleep during Clinton's second term?

Clinton didn't commit a crime. He certainly was guilty of indiscretion
but philandering isn't a crime.

Were you unhappy when he was prosecuted for lying under oath?

jps


Has anyone proven yet that Libby lied?


It's pretty clear from what Fitzgerald has said. His testimony directly
conflicts with his contemporaneous notes about Cheney informing him of
Plame.

It's pretty obvious he was protecting something or someone.

jps


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