Len wrote:
So you Canadians really are "blessed", in every aspect so far
No wonder every day three farmers or lorrydrivers quit their
business/job over here and emigrate to the land with the Maple Leaf.
There sure must be a lot of dutchmen over there...

Sorry I asked that question, Jim. I appreciate your open answer a lot.
Whenever my wife or I arrive at that roadbend, we'll no doubt do the
same thing... I am very glad to live in a country where it's possible.

Warm regards, Len.

Right up till this summer I thought I was part Dutch...from American
Loyalists chased from Harlem area of New York by the motley rabble
around 1776.
Mom was down to her mother's home in Digby county and someone had
researched a book on the origins of settlers outside the town in
Bloomfield.
Seems our ancestor on that side was actually Danish... he came to North
America from Holstein, Denmark by way of Holland prior to 1654. He built
a little church in the bush, Harlem area and that's where the family
name came from.
"Van" (from)
"Busch" (woods)
"kirk" (church)
There's even a coat of arms & a motto.
The Nova Scotia VanBuskirks are all decended from his second son....
and all VanBuskirks in Notth America trace their roots back to this
preacher.

Len,
It was interesting and informative to read your viewpoint.


"Len" wrote in message
...
Hi, I live in Europe, in the Netherlands. Thought maybe some of you
would be interested in a bystanders view on the us noise that is made
here...

I thought I'd get info about boats when I joined this group a few
weeks ago.
But I got an education that was far more interesting. In the beginning
that is, it was interesting to learn to understand the way of
reasoning of rep'and lib's and the way the one would drive a bus
through the others arguments.
In the developed world I've never seen a country that devided like the
us. Looks to me like the civil war was never ended but went on using
other means.

But I am glad this discussion is going on. And I am glad that a start
is made in acknowleding that a lifestyle of godfearing
self-sufficiency can easily become a caricature.

It's very interesting to see the similarity between the rep's yelling
"you're takin' down american values" and the muslim condemning one as
infidel.

I hope but don't expect that the US will stop its misplaced acting as
a superior body. The power inside to make this happen is totally
absent. And when I look at it in a reasonably pessimistic/realistic
way, the americans who would be competent enough to rise above the
fighting parties and could alter the situation would rather be found
dead then become part of this ridiculously derailed tv-show thats is
mistakingly seen as a political system.

And....
You don't have to point out the mistakes Europe makes.
We don't know how to fight like the us does, we have a clown for
president in Italy, a bookkeeper in Holland, a ventrilloquists doll in
Britain... We have difficulty becoming a union. We know that -in order
to maintain a certain level of civilisation- we have a system in which
we help the lesser priviliged and off course there will be some abuse
of that system
but we see that's simply a part of the costs of civilisation.
We accept being just one of the parties in the world and we're not a
purely selfish, manipulating superpower.

But what do we see when we look over the pond?
A country that rapidly alters from a dependable big brother with whom
one could achieve rational solutions into an irrational schizophrene
brother that more and more becomes a helpless
part of the problem and in time may need to be isolated in a
straightjacket.

And this is just for starters. I haven't even mentioned the
environment, the penalty court, the shortsightedness when it comes to
achieving peace, the selfishness mistakingly referred to
as selfsufficiency.

I wouldn't dare to fly an american flag when cruising abroad and not
because it poses a threat.

Thanks for reading my rambling...

Len

I couldn't agree with you more, and apologize for squandering any degree
of respect that those in the rest of the world might have had for us at
one time.

I would love to just blame bush and his handlers, but am forced to also
add those stupid enough to vote for him to the list, as well as those
who didn't work hard enough to put him back mismanaging small business
and reaping the benefits of his rich friends and relatives where he belongs.

I would like to hope that this week is the beginning of the end of the
*******s, and would still move to Parry Sound, Ontario, if my wife would
go with me. (And I appreciate in advance those of you who are about to
say "And don't let the door his you in the ass on your way out!")

Capt. jeff

But what do we see when we look over the pond?
A country that rapidly alters from a dependable big brother with whom
one could achieve rational solutions into an irrational schizophrene
brother that more and more becomes a helpless
part of the problem and in time may need to be isolated in a
straightjacket.


Could it be because Europe is changing more then the U.S.? When euthenesia
is legal, quality of manufacturing is worse than ever, and strikes bring
down countries to stand still? Lets not even talk about the racism that is
on the rise, and anti-semitism is reaching pre wwii levels. England will put
you in jail for defending yourself against criminals in your own homes! Talk
about a legal system on its head.

I was born in Poland myself, and lived in Norway for a while. I will tell
you I would rather live in the U.S. then anywhere else. The kindness of
people, opportunities, and openess is amazing.

Dan,
The interesting thing about the gentleman's comments, is not the reality of
the situation, but the perception of reality.

His assessment of the US is a very common viewpoint in Europe.


"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

But what do we see when we look over the pond?
A country that rapidly alters from a dependable big brother with whom
one could achieve rational solutions into an irrational schizophrene
brother that more and more becomes a helpless
part of the problem and in time may need to be isolated in a
straightjacket.


Could it be because Europe is changing more then the U.S.? When euthenesia
is legal, quality of manufacturing is worse than ever, and strikes bring
down countries to stand still? Lets not even talk about the racism that
is on the rise, and anti-semitism is reaching pre wwii levels. England
will put you in jail for defending yourself against criminals in your own
homes! Talk about a legal system on its head.

I was born in Poland myself, and lived in Norway for a while. I will tell
you I would rather live in the U.S. then anywhere else. The kindness of
people, opportunities, and openess is amazing.

On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 11:58:39 -0500, "Dan J.S." wrote:

Could it be because Europe is changing more then the U.S.? When euthenesia
is legal, quality of manufacturing is worse than ever, and strikes bring
down countries to stand still? Lets not even talk about the racism that is
on the rise, and anti-semitism is reaching pre wwii levels. England will put
you in jail for defending yourself against criminals in your own homes! Talk
about a legal system on its head.

I am proud we dutch have had the guts to *regulate* euthanasia.
I hope you won't be hit by lungcancer and in the end when you're
almost suffocate your eventual question for a mercyful and dignified
end won't be denied. And when you trust some doctor can be persuaded
to help you then that is right on the spot the subject that should be
dealt with legally.

When you are against euthanasia for a religious reason I think you're
totally free in that choice. But where did you get the right to tell
others to suffer where they have no bibletext to fear?
Another example, where do christians obtain the right to prevent
homosexuals to become happy?
It's sad to see how, in "the finest country in the world", dictatorial
christian fundamentalists manipulate even the supreme court so their
views will be exercised for the next 30 years. Why can't you seperate
church and state? Practice your belief behind your front door.

Racism is always and everywhere. Thats a fact. Buyt that's a
characteritic of specific people themselves. You can't judge a nation
on it. If that were the case the us wouldn't score very good.
I think it takes a very big heart to fully acknowledge that all people
are equal world citizens. I don't even know if my heart is that big...
I am worried about radical islamic youth in my country... I wouldn't
call it racism but it is sad that I get extra cautious when I step
into a train with a group of 'm...

I was born in Poland myself, and lived in Norway for a while. I will tell
you I would rather live in the U.S. then anywhere else. The kindness of
people, opportunities, and openess is amazing.

I am sure, and I can verify it every day that the people I meet are
almost always kind, open and fun to be with. I make friends all the
time. I am sure there are lot's of americans I could have lifelasting
friendships with but that wasn't the point.
The point here is can you take 5 seconds in which you stop pointing
back at me with all kinds of mirrorred critiques and have a good look
at how things are becoming in the us.

Len wrote:

The point here is can you take 5 seconds in which you stop pointing
back at me with all kinds of mirrorred critiques and have a good look
at how things are becoming in the us.

That mirror works both ways, Len. I'm afraid you misunderstand what's
going on over here. It's not about compassion, or lack of it, it's about
the thieving forced redistribution of wealth and real freedoms. We have
had our share of incompetent leadership; Kennedy, Johnson, Carter, etc.,
but we also have had true world leaders like Reagan. Our once great
Democrat party is no more, having been hijacked by radical socialists
and assorted special interests. Suspect you have your share of wackos
too (judging from the Aruba fiasco).

--
Skipper

On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 12:49:12 -0500, Skipper wrote:

Len wrote:

The point here is can you take 5 seconds in which you stop pointing
back at me with all kinds of mirrorred critiques and have a good look
at how things are becoming in the us.

That mirror works both ways, Len. I'm afraid you misunderstand what's
going on over here. It's not about compassion, or lack of it, it's about
the thieving forced redistribution of wealth and real freedoms. We have
had our share of incompetent leadership; Kennedy, Johnson, Carter, etc.,
but we also have had true world leaders like Reagan. Our once great
Democrat party is no more, having been hijacked by radical socialists
and assorted special interests. Suspect you have your share of wackos
too (judging from the Aruba fiasco).

Lets try to lift the discussion from the simple pointing at situations
or anecdotes. Cause if we don't there only will be a series of it.
In my post I admmitted up front there are things to be seriously
improved in Europe. Why can't you? Are you serious in calling Reagan a
competent leader? In my view he was accidentally in office when a true
leader like Gorbatsjow entered the circustent. What would or better
could Reagan have achieved without Gorbatsjow bringing Glasnost and
Perestrojka? Furthermore he is the one that started serious
overspending to please the industry (Star Wars). He spent that much
that democrats wil have to raise taxes (cause the reps won't) so
their and you children will have a lesser debt.
What is actually wrong with this series of facts? Please stick to this
series....

Regards, Len.

Len wrote:


Lets try to lift the discussion from the simple pointing at situations
or anecdotes. Cause if we don't there only will be a series of it.
In my post I admmitted up front there are things to be seriously
improved in Europe. Why can't you? Are you serious in calling Reagan a
competent leader? In my view he was accidentally in office when a true
leader like Gorbatsjow entered the circustent. What would or better
could Reagan have achieved without Gorbatsjow bringing Glasnost and
Perestrojka? Furthermore he is the one that started serious
overspending to please the industry (Star Wars). He spent that much
that democrats wil have to raise taxes (cause the reps won't) so
their and you children will have a lesser debt.
What is actually wrong with this series of facts? Please stick to this
series....

Mikhail is in town today. Perhaps I'll ask him about HIS views of
Reagan. Believe his views of Reagan will be a bit more accurate than
yours.

--
Skipper

Len wrote:

That mirror works both ways, Len. I'm afraid you misunderstand what's
going on over here. It's not about compassion, or lack of it, it's about
the thieving forced redistribution of wealth and real freedoms. We have
had our share of incompetent leadership; Kennedy, Johnson, Carter, etc.,
but we also have had true world leaders like Reagan. Our once great
Democrat party is no more, having been hijacked by radical socialists
and assorted special interests. Suspect you have your share of wackos
too (judging from the Aruba fiasco).

In my post I admmitted up front there are things to be seriously
improved in Europe. Why can't you?

The US saved your collective asses a few year back and many of us find
europeans ungrateful hypocrites today, unwilling to payback. Do you
think lendlease will EVER be repaid? Further, your governments are
engaging in socialist madness, a concept freedom loving Americans find
an abomination. Capitalism works best with controlled responsible
government.

But you asked what was wrong with America. Well, we currently have open
borders. Too many illegal aliens are pouring into the US because it
offers the best economic opportunity in the world and free medical care
for illegals. We also have too many Looney Lefters, but they are held in
check and given no real say in things (however, they do bitch a lot). We
do have a great many more freedoms than you enjoy.

Are you serious in calling Reagan a competent leader? In my view he was accidentally
in office when a true leader like Gorbatsjow entered the circustent. What would or
better could Reagan have achieved without Gorbatsjow bringing Glasnost and
Perestrojka? Furthermore he is the one that started serious overspending to please
the industry (Star Wars). He spent that much that democrats wil have to raise taxes
(cause the reps won't) so their and you children will have a lesser debt.
What is actually wrong with this series of facts? Please stick to this
series....

History will record Reagan as the greatest leader in his time. We ALL
respect Gorby, but unfortunately, history will record his administration
form of communism as failures.

--
Skipper